Herbert W Franke: CODED BEAUTY
2–26 March 2023
EXPANDED.ART | BERLIN
CODED BEAUTY is comprised of eight works from Franke’s series MATH ART created between 1980 and 1995, early generative photographs from the 1950s, his Biennale serigraphy, including QUADRATE (1969/70), and further serigraphies.
Herbert W. Franke has always envisioned his MATH ART series to be displayed in this way, light and bright and strong colors, Francisco Carolinum in Linz made it possible for the first time for his solo show VISIONARY in 2022.
LOGIC and 3D-LANDSCAPES were not part of Franke‘s MATH ART NFT collection released in 2022. No NFT is connected to the Light Box.
Payable in ETH.
ABOUT HERBERT W. FRANKE
Known as a universal genius, Herbert W. Franke (1927-2022) is the forefather of computer art, co-founder of Ars Electronica, mastermind of the Metaverse, and science-fiction writer. He spent his entire career bridging the worlds of art and science.
EXPANDED.ART represents the estate of Herbert W. Franke.
\nABOUT MATH ART
\nIn 1980, Herbert W. Franke began a fifteen-year collaboration with programmer Horst Helbig at the German Aerospace Center. Together, they studied mathematical disciplines in relation to aesthetics. The series MATH ART is the output of their research at the intersection of science and art. It reveals a universe of numbers transformed into images through a variety of shapes and colors reminiscent of Pop Art.
\nThroughout his entire life, Herbert W. Franke used mathematical principles for art experimentation. From the very beginning, it was clear to him that it is the artist's mission to examine new technologies and their social significance through the lens of their creative potential. For Herbert W. Franke mathematics are the essence of visual arts. While he saw the artist as an analytical maker using mathematics to create structures, he assigned the computer the task of modulating these principles of order through varying random processes. Franke, therefore, considered the computer as a creative partner for the artist very early on.
\nThe color served to code certain structural elements and was of fundamental importance. The computer system at DLR in Oberpfaffenhofen, which was powerful at the time, had integrated output equipment with which the digitally developed image worlds were transferred directly to high-resolution photo film. On his own DOS PC, Franke created the preparatory work for the captivatingly vivid aesthetics of this mathematical investigation.
\nIn the beginning, there were algebraic formulas for three-dimensional spatial areas: The three dimensions were converted into two-dimensional landscapes, whereby the \"contour lines,\" i.e., the z-axis of the room, were color-coded with specially developed color grids. Starting with algebraic landscapes, the two worked their way through a wide variety of disciplines via wave functions, Fourier transformations, broken dimensions, and logical connections, until they finally visualized complex and irrational numbers as well as random processes and logical connections with their method.
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ABOUT HERBERT W. FRANKE
Known as a universal genius, Herbert W. Franke (1927–2022) is the forefather of computer art, co-founder of Ars Electronica, mastermind of the metaverse, and science fiction writer. He spent his entire career bridging the worlds of art and science.
EXPANDED.ART represents the estate of Herbert W. Franke.
ABOUT MATH ART
In 1980, Herbert W. Franke began a fifteen-year collaboration with the programmer Horst Helbig at an institute of the German Aerospace Center. They examined mathematical formulas and disciplines in relation to their aesthetic dimension, which resulted in the series MATH ART. The results of their research at the intersection of science and art reveal a fascinating universe of mathematics that has been transformed into images with a stunning variety of forms that is strikingly reminiscent of Pop Art.
Herbert W. Franke was always looking for known or newly discovered mathematical principles in order to use them for his experiments in art. It was clear to Franke that it was the artist's job to examine new technologies with their great social significance for their creative potential. Because they should \"not only be reserved for technocrats, commerce, or even the military\". From the beginning, in the 1950s, Herbert W. Franke saw mathematics, with its abstract world of formulas, as the essence of the visual arts. While he saw the artist in the role of the analytical creator who creates structures using mathematical methods, he assigned the computer the task of modulating these principles of order through varying random processes. Franke, therefore, saw the computer in the role of a partner early on.
\nThe color served to code certain structural elements and was of fundamental importance. The computer system at DLR in Oberpfaffenhofen, which was powerful at the time, had integrated output equipment with which the digitally developed image worlds were transferred directly to high-resolution photo film. On his own DOS PC, Franke created the preparatory work for the captivatingly vivid aesthetics of this mathematical investigation.
\nIn the beginning, there were algebraic formulas for three-dimensional spatial areas: The three dimensions were converted into two-dimensional landscapes, whereby the \"contour lines,\" i.e., the z-axis of the room, were color-coded with specially developed color grids. Starting with algebraic landscapes, the two worked their way through a wide variety of disciplines via wave functions, Fourier transformations, broken dimensions, and logical connections until they finally visualized complex and irrational numbers as well as random processes and logical connections with their method.
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Known as a universal genius, Herbert W. Franke (1927-2022) is the forefather of computer art, co-founder of Ars Electronica, mastermind of the Metaverse, and science-fiction writer. He spent his entire career bridging the worlds of art and science.
EXPANDED.ART represents the estate of Herbert W. Franke.
ABOUT MATH ART
In 1980, Herbert W. Franke began a fifteen-year collaboration with the programmer Horst Helbig at an institute of the German Aerospace Center. They examined mathematical formulas and disciplines in relation to their aesthetic dimension, which resulted in the series MATH ART. The results of their research at the intersection of science and art reveal a fascinating universe of mathematics that has been transformed into images with a stunning variety of forms that is strikingly reminiscent of Pop Art.
Herbert W. Franke was always looking for known or newly discovered mathematical principles in order to use them for his experiments in art. It was clear to Franke that it was the artist's job to examine new technologies with their great social significance for their creative potential. Because they should \"not only be reserved for technocrats, commerce, or even the military\". From the beginning, in the 1950s, Herbert W. Franke saw mathematics, with its abstract world of formulas, as the essence of the visual arts. While he saw the artist in the role of the analytical creator who creates structures using mathematical methods, he assigned the computer the task of modulating these principles of order through varying random processes. Franke, therefore, saw the computer in the role of a partner early on.
\nThe color served to code certain structural elements and was of fundamental importance. The computer system at DLR in Oberpfaffenhofen, which was powerful at the time, had integrated output equipment with which the digitally developed image worlds were transferred directly to high-resolution photo film. On his own DOS PC, Franke created the preparatory work for the captivatingly vivid aesthetics of this mathematical investigation.
\nIn the beginning, there were algebraic formulas for three-dimensional spatial areas: The three dimensions were converted into two-dimensional landscapes, whereby the \"contour lines,\" i.e., the z-axis of the room, were color-coded with specially developed color grids. Starting with algebraic landscapes, the two worked their way through a wide variety of disciplines via wave functions, Fourier transformations, broken dimensions, and logical connections, until they finally visualized complex and irrational numbers as well as random processes and logical connections with their method.
","gid":"gid://shopify/Product/8178336334090","id":8178336334090,"isDeleted":false,"options":[{"_key":"Title","_type":"option","name":"Title","values":["Default Title"]}],"previewImageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/products/MathArtRelief_3_PM.png?v=1677791104","priceRange":{"maxVariantPrice":4500,"minVariantPrice":4500},"productType":"PRINT","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"relief-rotationen-3"},"status":"active","tags":"ALL FINE ART, Artworks, CODED BEAUTY, EXPANDED ARTWORKS, Herbert W Franke","title":"Relief Rotationen 3","variants":[{"_createdAt":"2023-03-02T20:10:16Z","_id":"shopifyProductVariant-44375652073738","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfsz8BD","_type":"productVariant","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:07:57Z","store":{"compareAtPrice":0,"createdAt":"2023-03-02T20:10:13Z","gid":"gid://shopify/ProductVariant/44375652073738","id":44375652073738,"inventory":{"isAvailable":false,"management":"SHOPIFY","policy":"DENY"},"isDeleted":false,"option1":"Default Title","option2":"","option3":"","price":4500,"productGid":"gid://shopify/Product/8178336334090","productId":8178336334090,"sku":"PRIHE0023","status":"active","title":"Default Title"}}],"vendor":"Herbert W. Franke"}}],"title":"AVAILABLE WORKS"},{"_key":"58fd52dce9b0","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":null,"teaserItems":[{"_key":"b4bed44da64c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-01T07:32:42Z","_id":"05554971-3a10-47c7-a525-b0d3a8cb91ff","_rev":"RbvYcRDNbBIseOVVtb0QnD","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-11-18T19:32:22Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d47f1510a7e19d86a9f8f320923087dd9ce694d1-1000x1015-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"2f56ee7e4cd2","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"e23120f2c10c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a66d29b659fd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Herbert W. Franke is a universal genius; you can say that with a clear conscience. For several decades, he separated three lives: the caver and scientist, the artist and curator, the art theorist, and the science fiction author. Only on the occasion of his solo exhibition in 2010 at the ZKM Karlsruhe did he bring these three lives and careers together under the title \"Wanderer Between the Worlds\". In the early 1950s, caving led him to experiment with light and technology. He kept his curiosity throughout his life; it was his drive to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. His pioneering spirit made him one of the first computer artists who was more than six decades ahead of his time. Franke discussed his visionary practice with Anika Meier in June 2022."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3296eddc49ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c0b91f66e6a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke turned 95 in May, and the world seems to finally have caught up with his art and thinking. Herbert W. Franke and I met through the work of Alfred Weidinger, the director of the Francisco Carolinum, which was showing his solo exhibition VISIONARY. When we first met, I asked him if he was aware that he was a legend, especially for \"the people on the internet\". He said in disbelief, \"Really?\" I asked him to come on Twitter and see for himself. He did this with the help of his wife, Susanne Päch. The rest is history. He was followed by 10,000 people within 48 hours, and his first tweet has over 15,000 likes and 3,000 retweets. The dinosaur, as he calls himself, went viral. His first NFT drop was sold out within 30 seconds; he was the headliner at the Tezos Booth at Art Basel with a work from 1979. In 1970, Franke was represented at the Venice Biennale and showed a screen print of the series SQUARES created with the digital computer, in which he let chance and algorithm work together. Herbert W. Franke died on July 16, 2022, at the age of 95, leaving behind an extensive oeuvre."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e0ae1af3a4ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ce36fbeaaff90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a8055b3604a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke at Francisco Carolinum, Linz, at the opening of his solo exhibition VISIONARY in 2022. Credit: Francisco Carolinum Linz. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8e26634ae68ee8f082882e347c80cafa335aa60e-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8e26634ae68ee8f082882e347c80cafa335aa60e-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"681389e40fa9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"942962427fab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"945c23e3709f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Mr. Franke, you are an artist, scientist, and science fiction author. How did you manage to combine three CVs over many decades?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b8287c5b8409","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"78916a8193c40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke: I don't know if you mean \"operatively.\" In fact, I kept these resumes separate for a long time. Many people who knew me through my works and publications were surprised to learn that I was also involved in seemingly unrelated fields such as computer art and vice versa. It was even more pronounced in caving. In any case, there were three CVs in my office cupboard for many decades, which I used as needed. It was only with the exhibition \"Wanderers Between the Worlds\" at ZKM Karlsruhe, Germany, that the connection was made between these three fields. They probably all corresponded to my tendency to break new ground."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"61a3658a3b5f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8b34a850549","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b3bbe0ff73060","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Today, it is quite common for artists to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. How did you start your first artistic experiments in the 1950s?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b21a557cb988","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"501c170659700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: I came into art from science. I had noticed how \"beautiful\" some pictures of physics were, especially with the latest instruments such as scanning electron microscopes, telescopes, and particle accelerators, but also photographs of structures in nature. That made me curious as to why that is – and how art is related to it. In physics, as in nature, there had to be principles of order that have an aesthetic effect. It quickly became clear to me that straight curves, which can be described well in mathematical terms, possess a lot of aesthetic potential. So I started experimenting with them and synthesizing them in the photo lab – or calculating them with an analogue computer."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"15a32aa0537d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"97bbf419d5dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d49c08918d50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were the reactions at the time to your experiments combining art and science?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ff90209b2866","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e633ba6073c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HW: Experiments with light, and nothing else, were my works at the time. They drew very little interest from the classical art world, let alone the art market. It was easy to publish such thoughts in magazines for photography or design; I wrote a number of articles at the time, but the traditional art world largely ignored such tendencies back then."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a0b1adc02f4d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cd443dad465d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ca02486c7f90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did the reception change over the decades? You have been active as an artist for more than sixty years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"95df5276c9b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4bda710223c20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Well, I have the impression that at the very beginning, producing this kind of art had at least some kind of curiosity effect. Then came the computer, and as it started to take off on a large scale, a lot of young people jumped on it and flooded the world with more or less relevant work. This may even have led to increased rejection in the traditional art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dc05d30a287c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Mathematica, Flares, 2009.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a565b1033ce4ceee5336ab18d287b07b93435389-1800x1800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a565b1033ce4ceee5336ab18d287b07b93435389-1800x1800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"d2c6bfab95c0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8f79c750167f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1e94fdbd9580","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: If you think back to your first artistic experiments today, at what point did you dare to call yourself an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d3156da312a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"89cf807af4310","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: That was relatively early, in the 1950s. Because I developed these works with conscientiousness and care, I have decided to call myself an artist. Incidentally, this was supported by a very far-sighted art historian, Franz Roh, who, as a mentor, pointed out tome in the 1950s that I should pursue these new approaches seriously. At the time, many of the early pioneers did not dare call their work art and instead categorized it as design. But I just had nothing to lose. And I was also convinced that I was on the right track of knowledge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e6cc8d0b3e9c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d3de4ddca46d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1056ef9cf2f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were your influences, both as an artist and as a writer? Who has inspired you in your work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ace0700ae2a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34bf78fc5de00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: In literature, these were the authors of the Prague Circle and a few authors of American science fiction. When I started writing professionally in the 1960s, these authors could only be found very sporadically on the German market. In art, Franz Roh should be mentioned, but then also the cybernetician and communications engineer Karl Steinbuch, who strongly encouraged me and my information-aesthetic approach in the 1960s. I would also like to mention the perceptual-psychological work of the mathematician and educator Helmar Frank, with whom I have also published some work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b4cf2c42fe14","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7f96644edc2b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4df2807558880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have been active on Twitter since March and, as a result, have become part of a global community of artists and collectors. Artists today share their work on social media and offer NFTs for sale on marketplaces. As an artist, curator, and author, you yourself were strongly involved in the community of pioneers in the field of computer art and generative art. You have written numerous books and curated exhibitions, such as the traveling exhibition for the Goethe Institute, which was shown in 200 cities. Today, it takes just a few clicks to get information, build up a network and organize exhibitions. How did you explore and exchange ideas and how do you keep up-to-date?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"408f73cff817","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56e3eb07ce310","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: At that time, we mainly had the mail – and then, increasingly, the telephone before fax came along. But communication overseas was so expensive back then that people usually used the post office. Occasionally, you could also see colleagues at conferences and symposiums, which were often accompanied by small exhibitions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"174ec3634d84","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Mondrian, Herbert W. Franke, 1979.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7dcedb1fae4b86eef61cdad83a21cba7fce152b9-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e9d932b0cbbd8db28022b83c37c1e3d1cf2b691d-375x667-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"12998f3c94f9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f96358ea85b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38751688e9880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: 1,800 of your manuscripts are in the ZKM Karlsruhe archive. That's a very significant number. As a science fiction author, you have won numerous important prizes, and your publications in the field of computer art are still standard works. What was your daily routine back then?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9ce20fabd423","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7a1b33e05b210","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: It was very different. I was self-employed, and my bread and butter was writing. So I had to offer articles or books to magazines and publishers by mail. And you had to offer more than was realized; that was part of the business. But I also did many lecture tours, especially at the beginning of my career."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"216dffc9e9b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69b3f560eab20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Very early on, I switched from using the typewriter myself to dictating, because I quickly discovered that I can dictate much faster than I can type. And so, early on, I looked for typists who could write from tape. At the beginning of my career, I lived with a film producer who had good connections to the large Bavaria film production company nearby. There were experienced secretaries working at the company who were very happy to do such work as a side job. At first it was just the mail that I dictated, but by the early 1960s, I was also dictating my novels. I think I've reached a certain level of perfection in that."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2312dc5ebd5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c0e5e94667a00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The summer months were the time when I wrote long novels. During this time, there were a few other activities, such as attending to correspondence and also a few lecture tours. To write, I would lie down on a deck chair for a few weeks – either outdoors or in my cactus house if the weather was bad – and dictate page after page into my Uher tape, including the punctuation marks. The typists were always very grateful and said that the Bavarian bosses, for whom they worked during the day, would do much worse. In a few weeks, such a novel was dictated in one go. On average, I would dictate over several hours at a rate of maybe ten manuscript pages a day. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0496c52f590f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da15f31511620","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There was no word processing back then, which means that corrections were only possible to a very limited extent. I somehow had to keep all the characters and the course of the story in my head. When I was writing novels, I was in a kind of tunnel for weeks. Similarly, when I was on expeditions into caves – which usually lasted 14 days – I was also in a parallel world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ceb6c8f18920","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4b883266e48d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5490423027b90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your work as a science fiction author was closely intertwined with your work as an artist and scientist. Has writing influenced your work as an artist and vice versa?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"967c1ae3a36e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d3e74cdda540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Certainly not in a specific sense. But it was clear that, even as an author, I was already asking myself what the social meaning of my work was. And right from the start, I abstracted from my artistic practice to such an extent that it should cover all art forms: from images to music to literature. The insights that I drew from these considerations have been taken into account both in literature and in the visual arts. They showed me that art – no matter what form it takes – has an important task in society because it promotes learning processes. Abstract art trains perception, shapes recognition processes and the like. In literature, envisioning different scenarios of the future can help actively shape it instead of letting it just happen."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"892126afe4a3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8965f91d70600","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Incidentally, in the course of my life I have often come across readers who have told me that my stories and novels were important reasons for their decision to become scientists or engineers. The nice thing is that now, in my later years, I hear very similar statements about my works of fine art. That's wonderful, because it's a late confirmation that this artistic activity not only brought me joy personally but was also effective. What more could an artist ever ask for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0d6d3a735177","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9762a5e5b699","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ddff21478800","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You were a pioneer all your life and way ahead of your time. In your 1970 novel ZONE ZERO, you describe the Metaverse as a world more real and livable to humans than the real world. How did you get interested in the Metaverse? Today, it is inevitable to hear about it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2de8c2aa87a2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"19533542821d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Well, it actually started as early as 1960 with individual stories in the GREEN COMET – and the first novel, THE THOUGHT NET, as well as the second, THE ORCHID CAGE, both published in 1961, play with virtual worlds in different ways. It was already clear to me back then that they would become a reality for us due to the growing technical possibilities. And I was convinced that they would not only raise philosophical questions, but also pose the threat of perfect surveillance on a massive scale, which is something I already had to experience as a teenager under National Socialism."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d0456af23272","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Math Art, Felder, 1985-1992.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61d393d9213f81f49c710c35faab02d8883187d9-1270x1255-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61d393d9213f81f49c710c35faab02d8883187d9-1270x1255-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"12cee0d1d044","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"68ef72c8ce07","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"583a88e753100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In 2005, you actually arrived in a metaverse yourself, namely Active Worlds. Together with your wife, Susanne Päch, you rented a piece of land there and built the Z-Galaxy, which you opened in 2008 with an exhibition you curated. Why was it important for you, as an artist and curator, to exhibit your art in a virtual world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"67804317d894","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eef13676698e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: It wasn't a plan or a goal. It was an experiment like many others, a new technology that I had long been familiar with from my imagination. Now, I was able to design it for the first time myself – still on a monitor and by no means a ‘real’ virtual world as in my stories."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5e40ba6bb9e1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9722265110ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d60453f145030","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What did you learn about the Metaverse from this?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"20da1ebcff9c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c622c6a0ff10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Well, first of all, I learned that designing the Metaverse in my own head is much easier. The network quality, which was still much worse at the time, the limitations in the software, everything was still very imperfect. Yet, it was still a start. I was inspired by other worlds like Derrick Woodham's virtual sculpture park or the exotic Martian landscape to wander around. It was important to me as an artist that I could construct something myself – and Active Worlds offered this possibility, in contrast to the Second Life platform, which was then much better marketed. However, as an \"artistic world builder,\" you could, on the Second Life platform, only use ready-made components, but you couldn’t construct them yourself."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f0a0ecadd643","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Fotoexperimente Bandformen, 1953-1954.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f114bde5110907f93fa1982dd44aa1fb365582a7-1800x2477-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f114bde5110907f93fa1982dd44aa1fb365582a7-1800x2477-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"4ffba4cffd99","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ae98128e538c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4bf44a8c4bfa0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I'm sure you've been following the discussions about the Metaverse, which has been on everyone's lips since Mark Zuckerberg announced his plans for his company, Meta. Do you have any concerns, or do you see a bright future?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"99930ee64947","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1d93196f52b70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: I would like to put it this way: the ambivalence of all technologies is given. It is up to us, as humans, to use them in one way or another. The possibilities of the Metaverse are tremendous, but so is their potential for abuse, as previously mentioned with regard to the surveillance of citizens by autocratic systems.\n\nHowever, as far as the philosophical approach to fictional worlds is concerned, I think we should be careful not to view such possible futures too much in terms of our current values. Norms and values are not set in stone. They adapt to changes and, thus, also to technologies. Does such a technologically constructed, fictional world have to be a world of second choice? Does the reality around us necessarily matter more? Does it really have to be a loss of reality when another reality emerges?\n\nWe are familiar with social networks today. But if these networks continue to develop into real worlds in which we stay, live, and feel, then perhaps – I hope – individuals could grow together into a stronger collective with closer relationships where the interests of the other are more valued than in our individualistic Western culture. On the other hand, of course, I also see the dangers, because the perfection of these worlds gives autocrats and dictators completely new possibilities of manipulation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"538419378733","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bbcd0a952b15","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a821f91ed3d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As an artist and scientist, you have always been driven by questions that you wanted to answer for yourself and that have social relevance. You worked on the MATH ART series from 1980 to 1995, i.e., for 15 years. That's a very long time. How did you come to work on this series and what was your goal?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"78cf2225965b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72dd375c0db70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: The MATH ART series was created on a computer at the German Aerospace Research Center (DLR) in Oberpfaffenhofen. The in-house development of the system served to evaluate raw image data recorded by satellites operated by Germany or the European Space Agency (ESA). The institute developed its own software for image evaluation for the system, which worked with the latest mathematical algorithms to extract the best information from the data.\n\nThe head of the Institute for Communications Engineering came into contact with me in 1979. Ernst Triendl had a PhD in Mathematics and, like some of these thinkers, was a bit unusual. In the afternoons, for example, he lay down in his office on a couch specially set up there for a pause for thought – and, of course, it wasn’t allowed to disturb him. Perhaps his eccentricity was one of the reasons why he quickly became interested in my not very conventional ideas of seeing mathematics as the creative key to art.\n\nWe quickly found each other in a conversation. One idea led to another, and in the end, it was all about the aesthetic potential of the Fourier transforms. These algorithms are of the greatest importance for image analysis in communication technology. This is because they can be used to calculate the noise from the data transmitted by radio. They are an important tool in pattern recognition and for the evaluation of satellite data. At the end of the conversation, there was an appointment where we wanted to follow up with practical experiments on this computer system. It was no longer a matter of applying Fourier transforms to existing data or images, but of exploring the mathematical principle as such. The result was a set of images of Fourier transforms that were not yet so brilliantly colored, but which showed me that this path could be very promising.\n\nHowever, something stood in the way: the head of a DLR institute naturally has other tasks than dealing with the beauty of mathematics. His job is to run an institute. But I was so fascinated by the results that it was obvious how much I would like to continue this work. So Triendl brought me together with an employee, Horst Helbig, who was a physicist and computer scientist. At the Institute, he was instrumental in the development of algorithms for image analysis – the software DIBIAS (for Digital Image Analysis System). My ideas immediately fascinated Helbig, who was a rather calm but precise worker."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"366a0b719ecc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke watching his NFT Drop MATH ART selling out in 30 seconds. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ea92e013ca49015065b8b5de74259a9032105d2b-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ea92e013ca49015065b8b5de74259a9032105d2b-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"fc9d04604bcd","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ed37bf51c3d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da6d589bce8a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: If I understand you correctly, there was no official \"legitimacy\" in DLR. How was it possible to carry out the MATH ART project for 15 years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6385c49795a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e267fcc65a790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: This was made possible by a special rule at the institute: at the weekend, employees were allowed to use the computer system, which ran 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for private purposes. The offer was rarely taken up. So it quickly developed that Helbig and I sat together every two weeks on Saturdays in the otherwise deserted institute and experimented with mathematical formulas.\n\nThe end of this cooperation was not due to the fact that the two of them lost interest or that the work was completed. Rather, this happened because the computer that DLR had built itself was replaced in 1995 by the American system from NASA for reasons of compatibility. The entire system and the DIBIAS software were therefore scrapped. The system was offered to me, but unfortunately there was no way for me to accommodate the machine, which required an entire air-conditioned room."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9415b938a0eb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08eed586aca2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d72c54bc0710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In these fifteen years, a very extensive body of work was created. You chose 100 images from this series for your first NFT drop, which sold out within 30 seconds on the NFT platform Quantum. How did you choose the images?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"243d0307f91f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c794d44c4990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: The images selected for the NFT drop come from the period of 1980 to 1988. They are based on a selection of images from the book THE WORLD OF MATHEMATICS, which was published by VDI-Verlag (VDI Association of German Engineers) in 1988. Shortly before that, the exhibition THE BEAUTY OF MATHEMATICS had been on display in the Siemens Museum in Munich, where a number of images from the series were displayed in enlarged form.\n\nIn connection with my exhibition VISIONARY, the Francisco Carolinum in Linz has started to digitize the entire archive of MATH ART in high quality and has produced transparent light boxes for this purpose, which now show the images as I saw them on the screen for the first time. It is an extensive collection, and I am, therefore, very pleased that MATH ART is to be made accessible in an edition."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"82e12af8917c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Phantastische Welten, 2001-2004.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f6b1777e0dad308ff4e6c97695f673083cfa72f6-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f6b1777e0dad308ff4e6c97695f673083cfa72f6-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"711b31019e34","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"23f26c32b760","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ae9480070ca80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How important is the MATH ART group in your work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c1a35d59fbcd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2a2d5084bda0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: The extensive group of works, with their numerous series, is, of course, of great importance to me. But it's not just the scope, it's also the meaning: art is traced back to pure mathematics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5d0ba5aced4c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b6754e162916","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aa62a8f784740","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look back on your artistic work, what do you consider to be your most important work and greatest achievement?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"78608077aac8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8e77e8fa7a70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: That's a question I can't answer. Every era has its own tools and technologies, and I think every achievement enriches and gives impetus for the next step. But if I had to choose, I would pick a series that isn't particularly extensive: The SQUARES series, which I first started in 1967, paved the way for me to explore art experimentally with the exact methods of a natural scientist. That was a major breakthrough for me, as it allowed me to consider the phenomenon of art through a rational analysis."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7f402432c68b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bba8e66732f3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a448166b9b30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there something you haven't achieved yet that you still wish for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd3748cd8c59","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"52ef154339800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Oh, there is still so much to explore. I would like to have a little more time for it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5de25b6aca3b","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"cc7e1adfd1c0","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a5d569ef-420a-487c-acc4-710b9ebf2412","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"7fb2d4115bec","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"23d984a9a527","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-487692239114","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"7612c8bcdddb","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"baeba922fa0c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"6f2c2039-bb67-4a50-b6be-68895cb80771","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"8ae79fe3d656","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a826a73e-0b6a-485c-962d-4990c7bb9bb3","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"5e9e7f644ba6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"6e487791-3f84-451c-8786-1faf413b057c","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"5b13d2960259","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"33d86a424332","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"b62021b5-1d4b-4613-ab72-79db791fcce6","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"bd1ff85eec23","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"07e2fe8b-9431-4e2c-b0b7-e283980879db","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"df92e9665235","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bb654090-dba4-4064-8712-ded79ddd97cd","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"24aa117fa141","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"ed8b5da9-68b4-499a-81c9-3961d1b57935","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2022-12-01T16:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Herbert W. Franke is a universal genius, you can say that with a clear conscience. For several decades he separated three lives: he was the caver and scientist, the artist and curator, the art theorist and the science fiction author. Only on the occasion his solo exhibition in 2010 at the ZKM Karlsruhe did he bring these three lives and careers together under the title \"Wanderer Between the Worlds\". In the early 1950s caving led him to experiment with light and technology. He kept his curiosity throughout his life; it was his drive to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. His pioneering spirit made him one of the first computer artists who was more than six decades ahead of his time. Franke discussed his visionary practice with Anika Meier in June 2022.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"herbertwfranke-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"INTERVIEW WITH HERBERT W. FRANKE","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a565b1033ce4ceee5336ab18d287b07b93435389-1800x1800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"\"TECHNOLOGY IS NOT A THREAT TO ART\""},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"f554ec473548","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-02-21T00:18:17Z","_id":"6f2c2039-bb67-4a50-b6be-68895cb80771","_rev":"8FfXCU9e4B67W0N497Vdxg","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-01-14T18:20:33Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-45ddc186eb3669ef79f8ec11398822ac579d4210-3000x2009-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"2b29288d668a","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"5b22deda0993","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"76c7eb843ee0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Interview by Anika Meier "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cf1a7b21625b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a82cdcf8ed6","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Digital art pioneers Herbert W. Franke and Lee Mullican have been examining the connection between art and technology since the 1950s. Whereas Mullican saw the computer as an extension of his artistic vision, Franke saw this relationship as a cohesive one. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"59c42d9a2e3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3bb2ec3c5de8","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Cole Root, Director of the Estate Mullican, and Susanne Päch, Herbert W. Franke's wife, spoke with Anika Meier about the artists' legacies, their visionary spirits, and their influences on the current NFT space."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"50ffc0d0cd22","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"efd909edbb490","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W Franke was a pivotal figure in the development of digital art, which he helped to shape over the next few decades as an artist, writer and curator. As early as 1957, Franke proved in a book entitled ART AND CONSTRUCTION (Verlag F. Bruckmann, Munich) that technology \"opens up undreamed-of new artistic territory\". He has consistently explored new territory with analytical methods and the assistance of machines for over 70 years, looking into the future of digital art until he arrived in the metaverse as an artist and curator in the early 2000s. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"92aa70a3af70","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"590fcdb25bb20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As a pioneer of digital art, especially in the USA, Lee Mullican has devoted his life to experimenting with various art forms. Mullican's paintings depict characteristically computer-like patterns and lines, emphasizing the artist's devotion to combining technology and art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c26e7901253a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W Franke, 1983.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-38ee2aa0881eac34a9b5f5f1e73ba69a22a3bcd4-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-38ee2aa0881eac34a9b5f5f1e73ba69a22a3bcd4-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"56a9bc840049","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Lee Mullican","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-053f0973b26ef723c253664838685948e16d9694-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-053f0973b26ef723c253664838685948e16d9694-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"67f552600375","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4f0b08bd49b1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d964c066a650","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Susanne Päch and Cole Root, you are both representatives of the Estate of a pioneer of computer art. How did you get involved with the work of each artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f77e81c78a09","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a7365dfd7b10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Cole Root: My background has been in art production and exhibition design. I worked at a small museum in St. Louis and then I worked for Matt Mullican as a studio assistant for a few years in New York. That's how I learned about Lee Mullican being a pioneer of computer art and about Matt Mullican being an early pioneer and experimenter in digital art, particularly VR. When I moved to Los Angeles the Mullican family needed help managing both Lee and his wife Luchita Hurtado’s careers, which is how I ended up working fully with them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a30c7a78329f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69a92f02ac3d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7c3ba30ace32","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"21ee22ec8abd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Susanne Paech: I am the wife of Herbert W. Franke. Herbert started creating digital art in the 1950s and was ahead of his time. He started working with analog photography but also worked with an analog computer already in the 1950s and then moved to digital computers in the 1960s. We are very new in the community of crypto art, entering approximately nine months ago when Anika Meier introduced us to the Twitter community. Herbert passed away in July 2022 and I’m left here on earth to move on. So, we – Herbert and I – are very happy to be part of the community now.\n\nIt was 1979 when I joined Herbert’s world, and from that time on, we’ve been part of it, which means from the beginning of the PC computer time onwards. We bought our first Apple computer in 1980."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d2fd39e0b514","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c9dd3de12fbd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9cdd71c45a110","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I saw Herbert's piano when I visited you at your home near Munich. You explained to me that he basically lived three separate lives for a very long time. Only with his solo show at ZKM (the Center for Art and Media Karlsruhe) did he bring all three lives together: he explored caves, was a scientist, an artist and a curator, an art theorist, and a science fiction author. When it comes to his career, what would you say were his most important achievements?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"535400d8e06e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8e03c464f3c40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: All his different activities have one common focus: his vision. He always wanted to look into the future, and he did it with science by developing new things, writing science fiction stories, and through art. New technologies fascinated him, and he wanted to see what he could do with them. From an artistic point of view, the trigger was exploring the aesthetic dimension of a machine.\n\nI believe MATH ART is one of his most important works because it’s such an extensive series. I also see the Texas Instruments program for the TI 99/4 computer, which he wrote in 1979, as an important project. Herbert had to develop an art program for Texas Instruments, so he decided to do a running program: an interactive one and one with a sound part. He combined different art forms because he always saw the computer as a universal machine. It was important to him that digitization and digital computer art are not limited to visual art but are combinations of different sections of art, which can be stimulated with the same program.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"592c0f82d554","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W Franke, Mondrian 4, 1979.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-45ddc186eb3669ef79f8ec11398822ac579d4210-3000x2009-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-45ddc186eb3669ef79f8ec11398822ac579d4210-3000x2009-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"e8bca27f994e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"48021316477d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"78bdc2fc6ca00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Cole, as the Director of the Estate Mullican, do you see any differences between how Lee Mullican, the pioneer from the United States, and Herbert W. Franke, the pioneer from Germany, approached different technologies?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"445d9c46d495","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5508a9408beb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CR: It’s exciting seeing the parallels between Herbert W. Franke and Lee Mullican. Like Herbert, Lee was also constantly experimenting. Throughout his career, he was a graphic artist and cartographer in World War II for the US Army.\n\nAfter he left the army, he was in a constant search and researched his inner vision through art. He found art to be a spiritual and meditative practice and continuously wanted to expand that practice. He was constantly drawing and making sculptures out of wood, ceramics, and bronze. He was a creative writer and wrote plays and did experimental theatre. Computers were a new way for him to expand his creative footprint and the quest for inner vision through new means. There definitely are similarities between Lee Mullican and Herbert W. Franke in that way.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bcf7b4198c3d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Lee Mullican, Striation. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-022df5759dc6e3311a95ebe9b30894434e59e402-4521x3064-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-022df5759dc6e3311a95ebe9b30894434e59e402-4521x3064-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"fadc023a3671","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7b100e5d0f8e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"75a5100cf70a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are the most important works of Mullican’s career?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3fda2f056dc8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1e18d2ff53800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CR: Lee Mullican’s most well-known work and the movement that defined him was the group called the Dynaton. It emerged out of the San Francisco Bay area in the late 1940s and that group consisted of Lee Mullican, Gordon Onslow-Ford, and Wolfgang Paalen. This group of artists was interested in incorporating surrealist methods, but they were also interested in art as a spiritual practice. They looked more at indigenous cultures’ art-making practices and how they are related ceremony. The Dynaton work of the late 40s is the most institutionally collected and well-known of Lee’s.\n\nLee started working with darker backgrounds in the early 1970s, which was when technology and computer screens started to be seen. Lee taught at UCLA for almost thirty years, during which time he started working with computers and was friends with people like John Whitney. He was always very interested in these emerging technologies, but it was challenging working with them before the rise of the PC."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8a3c25b01257","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ce7fe3093c00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f47b96c69f41","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"034b52f2ff6e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: I can only agree. When Herbert started creating generative art in the 1950s it was extremely complicated to make. Additionally, the public didn’t notice generative art or care about it. That was a big obstacle back then. Today, there is more publicity around digital art in general – it may not be good publicity but at least it’s noticed. Herbert exhibited a large number of generative art series in the Museum of Applied Arts in Vienna in 1959, but no one really knows about it. Despite a few local newspaper articles it’s totally forgotten."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5d84e1e694fd","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"de5b85d73ba6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a81a6e9d25e30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Nowadays, everyone has access to technology and is online. How was it back then? How did you get access to technology in the first place?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2454f53dd050","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"892e6a7ee4580","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Herbert worked together with a friend, who was able to build an analog computer. Gaining access to digital machines was difficult, though. Only institutions and big corporations had these technologies, but they were not open for public use. Through some connections Herbert made while working at Siemens, he was able to use these machines in the research lab for experimental aesthetic work during weekends or after hours. It was very difficult to get access to these machines before the time of the home computer. And then it was quite easy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"01be11002973","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"426c13ed3393","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"da6e0ea184ce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1fff357580310","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CR: Lee taught at UCLA for over 27 years and while he was there in the mid-1980s, they had a program called the Advanced Design Research Centers Program for Technology in the Arts. There they had the first PC-based computer lab for the Art Faculty, Lee was one of the only faculty interested in experimenting with computers. People told him that he was wasting his time and that he should be painting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"395a6ff5d53b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Computer 8, 1987. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-147c91a04e71d7e185cbe119f79f7888424798fd-1652x1106-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-147c91a04e71d7e185cbe119f79f7888424798fd-1652x1106-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"196e1d04a2fa","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ea24c69389f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9dc5c34d419b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Going through Herbert W. Franke’s and Lee Mullican’s archives and extensive work, I was wondering why people were not interested in collecting their art back then. This suddenly changed a few years back. Does this have to do with the rise of NFTs or simply because technology is more common?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6bdae4c81d7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"49bb9e9896e50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: In my opinion, it is definitely related to the advent of NFTs. For some time, the NFT community was a bubble, not very interested in its own history. With Herbert and other pioneers of digital art, the crypto space started showing interest in the beginnings of it all that was outside the NFT world. After all, that is an integral part of the NFT space today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"19610d8bb5b9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"32a96c5dec14","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2903a26819f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1bad11c746430","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CR: NFTs definitely were a catalyst for interest. What got me into the space was the fact that there are people who appreciate digital abstraction. We started using NFTs to educate people about Lee’s work and his role as a pioneer in digital art. We could show the work in its native digital format on the screen. We felt it was the right way to do the work and the purest way. I’m really happy that this catalyst happened."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"096e94f26260","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2286b4f924f9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dc8b463f09c40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did both artists develop their own body of work in relation to contemporary art while at the same time working with suitable technologies and developing something completely unique with new tools?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b3918f39d0b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"064ad989d8d80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Between Herbert’s work and traditional art there was not really a connection. Developing his own approach and using machines to create art, Herbert learned that he was more or less the only one doing that. Herbert thought that his experiments could be art and continued to follow his path. Herbert thought about the future of art, he thought of using machines to create visual art combined with music or poetry."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8f7527c555de","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"624deaee22500","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e8574f14b14f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0592b00b942e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CR: Contrary to that, Lee was not particularly interested in technology, other than to have the means to show his patented painting style, which he developed in the late 1940s of using a palette knife to make these raised lines which he called striations of three-dimensional paint on the canvas. Lee also incorporated the surrealist method of automatism, where he would go into a state and kind of make a semi-automatic work. Through technology, he further developed his style and made changes to it, but when he arrived at the computer, he was able to use some of the same methods he used for his paintings."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0582c805b059","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W Franke, Math Art 3, 1980 - 1995.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5458175bcc5cae0baa0a38a113d3bac8f2ec81bb-2687x2673-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5458175bcc5cae0baa0a38a113d3bac8f2ec81bb-2687x2673-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"03420cc0c51a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"19a521b89e29","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb77fc3c48820","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Susanne, you told me once that Herbert did art as an experiment because he wanted to solve a problem, which is why his body of work is so diverse."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d67f6784a499","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"def98009b1c80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Creating art was like doing an experiment for him. Coming from science, he also approached art like a scientist. He viewed science as something beautiful and wanted to explore how machines can produce art. I would say his approach was very different from most of the artists of the 19th and 20th centuries."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cf2932c8a653","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f0a7f43b14ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d0bbcdc4af80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: He saw the machine as a partner?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"569ae869b1f7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4ac589edd360","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Absolutely, Herbert wrote about that in 1957. He said the computer is a partner of the human artist; the artist is a constructor of art. Herbert also mentioned that machines will play an important role in making art in the future. In a way, he already predicted Artificial Intelligence vision and the discussions about machines taking over our lives and enter creativity in the 1950s."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f1cc2a422e5e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W Franke, Oszillogramme 2-1500, 1954 - 1958.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1ffa59e3fe8d82f2cac058b4cea16dfc82eaaf4c-1500x1076-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1ffa59e3fe8d82f2cac058b4cea16dfc82eaaf4c-1500x1076-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"48420e5e2245","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7d881f3336f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"94aac8dc0ab60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Lee Mullican worked as an artist for decades with shows across the US. Do you know why he has never received such recognition in Europe or elsewhere?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"636561c56e05","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"49c252d805030","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CR: I'm not sure why Lee was never so successful in Europe. He did have a couple shows in Germany in the 1980s and 90s. He was kind of pegged as a California artist, and during the 1940s and 1950s, Los Angeles was not the contemporary art center then that it is now. It was often seen back then as a place to “drop out.”\n\nLee saw his work as a spiritual practice and used his art as a recording of this process. For him, the most important part was doing the work and then setting it aside. He would fill whole pads of hundreds of similar drawings each day. I think this is like many generative and code-based artists—the code itself is the work, and for Lee, the making itself was the work.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"095d750c44d0","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Lee Mullican while drawing, 1965.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0d94077f26aa645f770c2b79c9141ad9b6fb1705-2783x1938-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0d94077f26aa645f770c2b79c9141ad9b6fb1705-2783x1938-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"a44b8efdde71","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Lee Mullican, Untitled, 1977.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-108eb2b8dc2176c171b762e9970833e5421851da-1022x1308-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-108eb2b8dc2176c171b762e9970833e5421851da-1022x1308-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"27dd6160451c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e658b07cf730","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0c691b7448e10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: It seems it was the other way around for Herbert W. Franke – he was well known in Europe but not so much in the United States. Now suddenly the world is speaking about both artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cdd5b2f06c93","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"65aa783a6bee","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: I don’t really know why his work wasn’t known. Herbert was known in America for his publications about computer art, computer graphics, trends, or other people, but his work never was the focus. He was not good at marketing himself, to say. He curated an exhibition for the Goethe Institute that traveled around the world to approximately 200 cities. This was a very big show with a lot of artists, including all the well-known pioneer artists. Herbert’s main focus was showing museums that computer art was significant, instead of his own work. Maybe that's an explanation.\n\nCR: For Lee, when he had his first kind of major success, he was in his 20s. He had a solo show at the San Francisco Museum of Art as well as the Dynaton group show. Through the years, the galleries and the collector base were very interested in that early work and less focused on the new work, regardless of what kind of evolution or new strides he was taking. That was a big part of putting Lee’s digital work out in the world. If they came to see his work that way, maybe they would understand his later paintings and appreciate his influence more."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c21cd90588fb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f54a70d95b00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: I really think that America was further ahead in the openness to show these things than people were in Europe and in Germany. Europe is very traditional and was very boring concerning new things. The ground for that kind of work was much better in America than it was in Europe."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"63f3358f509f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W Franke, Math Art 4, 1980 - 1995.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c78eb6c0130a1513ef2c6b906ea8d12654d064cd-1969x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c78eb6c0130a1513ef2c6b906ea8d12654d064cd-1969x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"0a073851cdfc","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"9e6a36b476b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e47bfe131370","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Herbert W. Franke"},{"_key":"99c8ae5e73f7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (1927-2022) was a pivotal figure in bridging the gap between art and science. He was a scientist, author of science fiction, curator, mathematician, physicist, and speleologist. He was a co-founder of Ars Electronica in 1979. Franke has been called \"the most prominent German science fiction writer\" by Die Zeit, and a \"great storyteller\" by the FAZ. He also developed a rational theory of art. As a writer, he has been a pioneer of virtual worlds since 1960 – with his first work DER GRÜNE KOMET (Goldmann, Munich). In addition, he pioneered cave research with the dating of stalactites, with which he was also able to reveal significant information about climatology since the last ice age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6f2508ec53ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da1ce5d4fb41","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7b56a2035e25","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2d7b096923c4","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Lee Mullican"},{"_key":"0e03e9f72a43","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" was born in Chickasha, Oklahoma, in 1919 and died in Los Angeles in 1998. He is considered a pioneer in digital art and has been creating computer art since the 1960s. After winning a prestigious Guggenheim Fellowship in 1959, he spent a year painting in Rome before returning to Los Angeles, where he joined the teaching staff of the UCLA Art Department in 1961, keeping his position for nearly 30 years. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2622d30c0328","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bc4f1039cddf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Mullican’s works are included in the permanent collections of the San Francisco Museum of Modern Art, the Hammer Museum, the Whitney Museum of American Art, the Los Angeles County Museum of Art, and the Metropolitan Museum of Art, as well as numerous other institutions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ee221b004165","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"3248d5d492ce","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a5d569ef-420a-487c-acc4-710b9ebf2412","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b89a86b1c110","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"90f579cd-8f67-44df-b5cd-a6c83ad64109","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTISTS"},{"_key":"ea43c42d95c6","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"84e61e3d3035","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-494523777290","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"8b7ea64dbc98","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-499889668362","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"09ac101786f5","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-503361437962","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"dca88f04f38d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"c97331bfbed4","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bb654090-dba4-4064-8712-ded79ddd97cd","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"69fe2163996e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"03dd6c73-cbfa-4594-8174-73ad3633161c","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9b84602c085f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"07e2fe8b-9431-4e2c-b0b7-e283980879db","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"08372c9eed37","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"ac774de6-dd9f-4fb8-950e-82df30f9a4f6","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-02-23T13:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"As pioneers of digital art, Herbert W Franke and Lee Mullican have left behind a significant legacy. Anika Meier discusses the artists' impact on today's digital art and NFT scene with representatives of their Estates, Susanne Päch and Cole Root. ","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"anika-meier-in-conversation-with-lee-mullican-herbert-w-franke"},"store":null,"subtitle":"EARLY DIGITAL ART'S INFLUENCE ON NFTS","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5458175bcc5cae0baa0a38a113d3bac8f2ec81bb-2687x2673-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"HERBERT W. FRANKE & LEE MULLICAN: PIONEERS AND THEIR LEGACY"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"62aca71e573b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-03-26T19:13:10Z","_id":"6e487791-3f84-451c-8786-1faf413b057c","_rev":"arUcu7a9G4x73SNPSm7gI7","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-11-18T19:31:26Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-34722ebfae424eab443bebad5b6ac391382ccd40-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"02820269912a","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"234d51952ea8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d71a082fe970","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Herbert W. Franke first encountered Harry Yeff’s work in Linz in the summer of 2021. Both were part of the exhibition PROOF OF ART at the Francisco Carolinum in Linz, the first museum to tell the brief history of NFTs. Franke, who was also a caver and rock collector, became interested in Harry Yeff and Trung Bao's work, VOICE GEMS, and soon a collaboration emerged: Yeff asked about the potential of using Franke's voice in an audio-visual production, and Franke responded by sending one of his voice gems, which is a vocal work of art in itself. \n\nEXPANDED.ART is pleased to present the 72-Hour Open NFT Edition VOICE GEMS ASTROPOETICON (DESTINATION IN UNCERTAINTY) in collaboration with art meets science – Foundation Herbert W. Franke and ELEMENTUM. ART on the occasion of Herbert W. Franke’s solo show CODED BEAUTY at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin. The art meets science – Foundation Herbert W. Franke will use their portion of the sales for a designated purpose: translating significant texts by Herbert W. Franke to English and making them publicly available.\n\nNow you have to know something about Franke, the pioneer of early computer art, in order to understand his enthusiasm and this collaboration:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bfce68f94e16","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cd1aa8d85b1b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Franke's greatest scientific achievements are his cave-theoretical work, including the discovery of the age determination of stalagmites using the C14 method and, building on this, his research on geochronology, which he was able to carry out primarily with Mebus Geyh from the Lower Saxony Office for Soil Research. For this work, he made numerous expeditions, during which he lived with research teams for many days underground in order to be able to advance to previously unknown depths."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7ce14d3a322c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7300f15d9e2f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Franke began with his first cave inspections and photographic documentation: the problem with cave photography is how it illuminates the world in the dark. What started as a hobby quickly developed into professional maturity. Here, too, Franke distinguished himself through his wealth of ideas. He quickly developed into a cave photographer whose pictures were often published in consumer magazines as well as in photo trade journals, mostly with height reports by the author."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"703fe546da99","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8edd48fabacf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This is how Franke's career as a writer began, as did his artistic work deep underground in the caves of Europe. But his pictorial works also began to show a world in the light unknown there. However, images with light are not the only way for the physicist to see reality. As early as the 1950s, he was experimenting not only with light but also with X-rays, for example, in order to show objects that surround us every day \"in a different light\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"14c8aaded2c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"944430c7c2b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Susanne Päch, the wife of Herbert W. Franke, Harry Yeff, and Trung Bao talk about the collaboration that began in 2021. Päch, who today heads the art meets science – Foundation Herbert W. Franke and lived with the artist and scientist for 40 years, also tells more about Franke's fascination with stones and what this has to do with the beginning of his artistic career."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3cd44e19c9bb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke at the Atacama Desert, 2007.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ced97ab1df6541fff121eb02f3fe6eba6a0db4ed-2304x1728-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ced97ab1df6541fff121eb02f3fe6eba6a0db4ed-2304x1728-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"8178bf55f9d2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Trung Bao and Harry Yeff.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d84bf56e917d879d83414048c0816747a6524acf-1054x1336-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d84bf56e917d879d83414048c0816747a6524acf-1054x1336-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"cf0096b06a38","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"904e709b7189","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0906d7e0a6710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Harry and Trung, your project, VOICE GEMS, is ambitious. You create a voice archive by collecting, as you state, “the most unique, remarkable and most vulnerable voices“. What do you hope to achieve with this project?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4585efe819f1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"219ac18ff25e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Trung Bao: We collect voices and generate unique digital representations as a method of celebration and preservation of voice. Our current collection of 120 works will continue to grow, with the aim of having 500 pieces generated by 2025. Each has its own purpose and story in the archive."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0a3bd4ab8aa7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f15331dde8720","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harry Yeff: The project is growing steadily, and collaborating with Herbert W. Franke in 2021 has been a highlight so far. We only create gems from voices that have received some form of direct blessing to generate the work. We are creating gems that have the potential to hold a legacy, a voice-generated digital ceremony."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"07d6f4e0c0a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"VOICE GEMS Intallation at W1, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-822cd383cf227bfe25ae9d00a5b4b9c6e3668399-3832x1866-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-822cd383cf227bfe25ae9d00a5b4b9c6e3668399-3832x1866-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"d8522ea8c549","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e7a0fad47c40","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2a12b6f5c50a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is the human voice for you the fingerprint that stays because it is unique and somehow preserves the character?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7b6290bba98e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64d6e7d64be80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HY: Your voice is vast and withholds millions of years of evolution. Every conversation you have is one of the most complex acts in all of nature. The human voice is a miracle of engineering; just observe how fluently you control the 100 muscles it takes to speak. We are born to be masterful with our voices. It’s established that we should stretch our bodies, but do you stretch your voice? Do you explore the potential of your own voice? If not, why?\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0845c5b2d3fd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c60c57844740","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"TB: Helping people see and now hold a voice takes voice from a smoke-like state into something tangible and beautiful. This leads to many opportunities for art and storytelling.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"14d9eb9588ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc88aec651a40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You are not just what you say. Your voice is your identity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"aab2d2e6f029","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5462588d45ce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cb7f508a735b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harry Yeff, Live Cymatics Performance One, 2014.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-734a92b7df004af913ed9fc4d762119a75ac06a9-1920x1280-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-734a92b7df004af913ed9fc4d762119a75ac06a9-1920x1280-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"24164a799131","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"959a690898d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24ce8f0ef79f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You collect voices and at the same time create an artwork that expands the narration. Why a digitally generated gemstone? And how do you generate it? How do you choose the voices you would like to archive?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d88169190961","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73a09259588c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HY: VOICE GEMS is the seventh system in a ten-year journey of exploration of generative processes that visualize features of the human voice. Much of our work centers around the human voice, with the simple belief that all voices on Earth are precious and unique expressions of nature. The gemstone is to show that all voices are unique and have an often unseen remarkable value."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7313371e05cb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"035fd9480eaf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nTB: Your voice is your identity—not just what you say, but how you sound. All gems are numbered and archived, opening a unique opportunity to collect and curate stunning examples of unique voices and unique voiced concepts, as well as vulnerable voices. Ranging from dying languages to our VOICE GEMS, created from the voices of critically endangered species."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c7c3adeaa8b0","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Voice Gems Astropoeticon (Destination in Uncertainty), 1979/2021. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e116bc4ecbeea321da6e36e3743b2e65b650302d-2000x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e116bc4ecbeea321da6e36e3743b2e65b650302d-2000x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"653a1d12af8e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"06411481b771","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5623ec069d9c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Herbert W. Franke and his wife, Susanne Päch, reached out to you in 2021 because Herbert was interested in an audio-visual collaboration with you, and soon the project began. What interested you as artists about the pioneer of early computer art, who is often called a universal genius?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"62cb7a88d9e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8d69fc1ccce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Susanne Päch: Herbert saw the VOICE GEMS for the first time at the exhibition PROOF OF ART at the Francisco Carolinum in Linz 2021. We were keen on learning more about the subject. Herbert found this concept extremely interesting, so we contacted Harry by mail. I guess Harry knew Herbert’s work before."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"463b4601a3b4","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Astropoeticon, 1979.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6a505cb49401793a296f94546f4958314f632a82-2480x3507-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6a505cb49401793a296f94546f4958314f632a82-2480x3507-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"54ec383692c4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e05a036874d1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"25e246e6591d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why did you choose the book ASTROPOETICON for this collaboration?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"58ddbd8fd494","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6de11a729c30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: The ASTROPOETICON was the first choice because a recording was needed that was art itself.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dabb8cd56ec4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4bea06b08220","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert worked on the ASTROPOETICON together with the artist Andreas Nottebohm. Andreas used a spray gun to create art. Herbert was fascinated by this method because it was a more technical approach than painting with a brush. Traditional artists hated this method in 1979. Later, Andreas was an artist in residence at NASA; he now lives in Hawaii.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1b2e05ec46bf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e13f7a898e960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Andreas wanted to publish a book with 16 artworks; he asked Herbert whether he could contribute a text. Andreas had no idea what to do or how to do it, so Herbert offered to write 16 poems. One poem for every abstract picture. Concrete Poems for Astropoeticon that give room for associations when reading them and looking at the artworks. This was the beginning of the poem's cycle, ASTROPOETICON.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4530b098e41a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f9238cf2dada0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2007, we recorded Herbert reading the poems for a performance. The idea was to present them with underlying sound under the star field in the planetarium at Archenhold-Sternwarte, Berlin. It was a public performance on the occasion of Herbert’s 80th birthday.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a756d3020bc7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b304b44ff2d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HY: I was more than intrigued when the curator, Jesse Damiani, mentioned that our work stood out to Herbert. Trung Bao and I were honored and humbled. I became aware of Herbert's work after I performed at Ars Electronica and attended a group discussion about experimental pioneers. The relentless exploration and reframing of mediums impressed me. Many artists settle in format, but to see such spanning and diverse experimentation made me feel like my ten years in voice and technology were only the beginning.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fc5db9937b99","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f1153bd862c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My first experiments in visualizing voice, a prelude to VOICE GEMS, were working extensively with cymatics. Using literal vibration to generate unique geometry from sand to create visual works I spent over 1000 hours testing different tones, different densities of sand, and surface areas. This mentality and process is what I think Herbert picked up when he saw the VOICE GEMS at PROOF OF ART."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7863c76d5560","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e7d609197d40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"69fb9cd9fe6f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"462c07f8e117","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"744dadd172bc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have translated Herbert W. Franke’s voice into a visual form. Could you tell us about this process and idea?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"847b8ae92f46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5103eca4e03f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"TB: The VOICE GEMS project has some very strict rules. We only generate gems from voices that have themselves submitted archive audio or whose voice in the audio has a direct tie to the person who submitted it. So only a family member, associate, or friend can put forward a VOICE GEM to be generated.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"17f1c3902f4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f68ec176b9a70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HY: Trung Bao and I discussed the rules for some time. Without rules, digital projects have no form, in our opinion. We also only work with short clips. This forces the voice, or selector of the voice audio, to be precise with what exactly they wish to preserve.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"03ed7ef17bf2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a909a653e490","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Also, I believe longer than 90 seconds, and the piece becomes media and not an artwork. This process has a ritual-like nature, something we are very proud of. Limitation is what gives many things their purpose, in life and in art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a1af8dd4c6f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke while caving, 1950s.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bf40d9b9200b5b0aa87dafe4a6d7411c703ae072-1319x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bf40d9b9200b5b0aa87dafe4a6d7411c703ae072-1319x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"5135459272f4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0ef679ad428f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e15ce9405a6a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Susanne, what fascinated Herbert and you about the idea of an archive of voices?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"479700953e7b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dcab729469de0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Herbert and I reached out to Harry because we were fascinated by the visualization of spoken words in a crystal structure. It’s important to know that Herbert loved the beauty of nature and its structures. He was a collector of gems like crystals, stones, and stalagmites. So you can imagine that being able to see spoken words frozen in a gemstone was very intriguing for Herbert."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9084d3bda103","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"38725292b9f4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a6a97c7539d50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did he search for minerals and stones himself?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6197e2868646","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"91b07bd4f0db","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Mainly, he looked for them himself. We often travelled around the world. Herbert was mainly interested in the ground. He always looked for stones, minerals, and crystals to take home after the trip. Usually our bags were much heavier returning from a holiday. Often, we had many kilograms of excess weight. Usually, we put a folded sailor’s bag in our suitcase. At the end of the trip, it was filled with stones, minerals, and dirty laundry. Worst cases were our trip to Bolivia and our trip to Black Hills in Dakota.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"51d878c3fe2e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7872f5410d7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Usually we drove a rented car through the countryside of different regions of the world. Herbert collected stones and minerals, piling them into our car till the end of the trip—from South America to Africa, from Asia to Hawaii, from China to Uzbekistan. The trunk got fuller and fuller during the trips. One day before flying back, we needed two hours to decide which stones, crystals, and minerals we would take home. Usually he had a little hammer and cracker to be able to divide stones when it was necessary to diminish the number, but Herbert could not decide which to leave back. Travelling back was always extremely exhausting for us. I remember a lot of trips where we ran through big airports with heavy baggage."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"46501e2fc926","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7afa42f11cd7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a6945358fb1","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Krasnohorska, 1970s.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-75b7952a4908a944f1f3b78bac53bf738429ea62-14153x14279-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-75b7952a4908a944f1f3b78bac53bf738429ea62-14153x14279-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"34598fa00cab","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aafc1b3e485c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5deff4ecb5fc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Throughout his lifetime, Herbert experimented with new technologies as an artist but was also aware of the risks for society. What were his thoughts about artificial intelligence?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2012d1b6a7b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2f098418744f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Herbert was always sure that artificial intelligence would happen one day. In the long term, he was convinced that this synthetic intelligence will be able to produce creativity like an artist. It is not to eliminate the human factor, but to see it creating next to a human being. This idea was not frightening for him, but beautiful. As long as machines produce art, they do something good for society.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fd9472bd3113","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06ec09cd873e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert’s artistic career began as a theoretical physicist. This sounds strange but is correct. He realized that images from science show structures that can be beautiful. And also, nature has its own beauty. When he entered caves after World War II, it was for entertainment first but quickly turned into serious studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"822afb5f7599","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d15776586d14","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34e781ad249a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Taking photographs in caves led him very quickly to generative photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0c823ab414df","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"79d2574cdef70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: He saw these beautiful structures there in this world of darkness inside the earth: stalagmites and stalagtites. And he asked himself, \"How do they grow?” This question stood at the beginning of his theory about measuring the growth of stalagmites, which he published for the first time in 1951. The method of dating stalagmites via C14 was experimentally fixed in the 1960s and is the conventional method to date stalagmites nowadays. This was the scientific side. But Herbert looked at the world from two sides, also from the side of beauty. For this reason, he began to try to photograph these beauties in the darkness of the caves. He invented special methods to be able to illuminate big cave rooms in the 1950s. His cave photography marks the beginning of generative photography for him, where he tried to simulate the mathematical beauty of nature in light in the photo studio."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"78825c0a9a3f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"A small part of Herbert W. Franke's stone collection.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-080f9ca1d4bfbcaecb37e029d274d2315b0ff377-8006x5340-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-080f9ca1d4bfbcaecb37e029d274d2315b0ff377-8006x5340-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"71586aa78b65","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c05d16ec6039","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a714524477080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Back in the days it was not common to work with technology. But he was always able to find a solution or access through a contact."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"261ab158fece","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9efcfb14f5370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Machines used for art were his subject. In 1954, a friend from his home town of Vienna, also a physicist, built him an analog computer. He used it to generate oscillograms. But he also used other machines like microscopes or x-ray machines. He was always looking for the border between art and science and the mathematics behind it. In the 1960s, the digital computer got his main working tool—even more than a tool: a partner that had special skills. The structure (we would call it \"the code\" today) was mathematically defined by a human, but the variations were put into the algorithm of a program."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"47265af1d54b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"057fb98c7a84","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"157ac3bbfdc80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Mathematics were his starting point. Why was that?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0c7210147007","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"58bbba49ddd10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: From there, it was not a long way to another question: He began to ask why this was so. This led him to experiment with generative photography and to use an analog computer for artistic creations. It also led him to the concept of art that was based on human perception (or on both sides: the artist and the spectator). Herbert was convinced that any kind of art is based on perception and mathematics. Mathematics is the structure of the universe, so it underlies not only physics or chemistry but also biologyure of the universe, so it underlies not only physics or chemistry but also biology. These are two sides of our world that show structures in a mathematically defined way.\n\nI talked a lot about his theoretical approach to visual art. But his thoughts and ideas were not limited to visual art but were open to music, literature, and theatre as well. As a well-known science fiction author, he always said that seeing the mathematics behind human sentences and their meaning is the most complex and most difficult thing to translate into code, a code that could produce artistic work on its own.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dc7ddd3b9672","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0498a47a50d50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"31ef44dc9d29","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Z-Galaxy: Virtual Crystal.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61d1c33b8f20d20216ac874ce2fce15c98cdf611-7087x4724-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61d1c33b8f20d20216ac874ce2fce15c98cdf611-7087x4724-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"099025141295","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c91b6434128f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ca2eb8426d930","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: That’s why Herbert W. 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Franke first encountered Harry Yeff’s work in Linz in the summer of 2021. Both were part of the exhibition PROOF OF ART at the Francisco Carolinum in Linz, the first museum to tell the brief history of NFTs. Franke, who was also a caver and rock collector, became interested in Harry Yeff and Trung Bao's work, VOICE GEMS, and soon a collaboration emerged: Yeff asked about the potential of using Franke's voice in an audio-visual production, and Franke responded by sending one of his voice gems, which is a vocal work of art in itself. \n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Susanne Päch, the wife of Herbert W. Franke, Harry Yeff, and Trung Bao talk about the collaboration that began in 2021. Päch, who today heads the art meets science – Foundation Herbert W. Franke and lived with the artist and scientist for 40 years, also tells more about Franke's fascination with stones and what this has to do with the beginning of his artistic career.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"voice-gems"},"store":null,"subtitle":"The Beauty of Nature and An Archive of Voices","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e116bc4ecbeea321da6e36e3743b2e65b650302d-2000x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"\"YOUR VOICE IS YOUR IDENTITY\""},"videoUrl":null}],"title":"MAGAZINE"}],"seoDescription":"Herbert W Franke's solo exhibition CODED BEAUTY explores the extensive oeuvre of the digital pioneer. 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The exhibition is comprised of 31 gouache paintings as well as digital artworks from Hart’s iconic book of the same title in an immersive environment."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ef9699db5955","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"008e69461d7f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI was initially written and illustrated by Claudia Hart in 1995. It was inspired by Niccolo Machiavelli’s Renaissance treatise, THE PRINCE, the first book of political philosophy. Hart’s version began as a series of oil paintings and a small catalog, produced by the Realismus Studio at the Neue Gesellschaft für Bildende Kunst, Berlin.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fb40569e4623","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d9ff46c59100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI: THE BOOK\n"},{"_key":"12ae9515bf08","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the bookstore of NGBK, Hart fell in love with Comix, a back then radical form of comic books that filled one of their shelves. She read them, fascinated. There was no such thing as a graphic novel in those days. MAUS by Art Spiegelman, the Comix masterpiece, had just been released. Hart would stand around the NGBK bookstore, reading MAUS and other related works."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f389ca6082ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3d579b5295e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"I was a figurative artist interested in historical paintings, not comic books. Nevertheless, I was inspired,\" Hart says."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a30bc98d8e5a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a7c6667d0c8a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Her response was A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI, born as a series of 31 oil paintings, where she rewrote the Renaissance treatise by Niccolo Machiavelli as a children’s book, speaking in the youth-speak of her time. She was reflecting on the real estate and cultural war taking place in the early 1990s in Berlin. Her aphorisms focused on the workings of power. But the strategy was the same as for all of the other works she has produced since the beginning: text combined with images. It is a series of aphorisms in an illustrated book that does not need to be read in order. Each painting was a unique piece that could be combined in any order. The book has proven prescient, prefiguring the brutal tenor of contemporary US public discourse."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cad34404d383","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8a1221f908c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WORLDWIDE RECOGNITION"},{"_key":"8a0e2688b224","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nThe catalog was eventually released as an expanded hardcover by Penguin Edition USA in 1998. In addition, there was a Nautilus Edition German version published in 1996, and an Abbeville Press French edition published in 1998. At that time, Hart reinterpreted the oil paintings to produce the series of gouache paintings on paper exhibited at EXPANDED.ART."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8548a32a00ff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd47264acb390","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hart’s approach was typical of the 1990s art world. Mimicking the visuals of a picture book, she appropriated 1920s children’s illustrations known for their sugary sweetness. The irony and twisted humor of A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI are derived from its combination of opposites: the saccharine speech of kid’s books and the unvarnished reality of American politics. The book went out of print in 2000 but continues to be traded on the second-hand book market."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"63a6bda40196","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86667409c47b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2019, Beatrice Books, a small experimental publisher, reissued A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI as a more contemporary book. At that time, Hart discovered among her files a series of Flash animations created for an ebook, the early 21st-century digital format that had long since disappeared, initiated by the production company Flicker Labs in 2010."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1db8009fe4fc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aafe5e05b6700","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI: THE NFT"},{"_key":"d89f8611ac0c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nIn 2019, Beatrice Books, a small experimental publisher, reissued A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI as a more contemporary book. At that time, Hart discovered among her files a series of Flash animations created for an ebook, the early 21st-century digital format that had long since disappeared, initiated by the production company Flicker Labs in 2010."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c7c39bff856b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9dcd7e6b7d370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Flicker Labs used her original gouache paintings from 1995 to begin a series of Flash animations. Adobe, which created Flash, stopped supporting it in 2011, instead focusing more on HTML. Flicker Labs shut down. In 2020, Adobe reissued Flash as part of a new software called Animate. In 2022, at the height of the crypto bubble, she realized her old Flash animations could now be opened, so she transformed her technological castaways into NFTs. The animations were narrated by Hart using vocal recordings made in 2010, including sound effects and background music. With that last transformation, she ultimately produced animations that are brutal but true insights, standing as reminders that while technologies may come and go, human frailties remain the same."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4981f37e5cb9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ff4e5c522770","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"CLAUDIA HART ABOUT A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI\n"},{"_key":"e2fba3c796d10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"We are obviously in a period of cultural crisis, with the world slipping into autocracies, war in the Ukraine, and democracy dramatically destabilized in the USA. Social media is used to spread misinformation and engender fear and terror in order to manipulate the populace."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b14fcb9ef46b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f5b6f303b390","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The little mottos that I wrote in the early nineties are more relevant now than ever. They seem to be pointedly directed at the cultural and political world of today. Yet when I wrote them, I felt that I was translating Machiavelli’s early 16th-century text into the politics of that time.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4b6df49086c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a6433bdc84e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"– Claudia Hart, June 2023"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"241da8bf810b","_type":"moduleStatement","link":null,"text":[{"_key":"d386e4ecc0ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c927b23dc4c6","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"CLAUDIA HART: A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI "},{"_key":"1e8ad6fb80cf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n29 JUNE - 19 JULY 2023\nOPENING: 29 JUNE | 6-9 PM CET\n\n"},{"_key":"36c6a34005dd","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"CRYPTO ART SALON BERLIN"},{"_key":"ad8a6801a8ab","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n16 JULY 2023 | 6-9 PM CET\nAnika Meier in conversation with Claudia Hart and Alfred Weidinger, Director of Francisco Carolinum Linz. 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Hart leverages simulation technologies to collapse the false binaries between human and avatar, artificial and real, mind and body. With a background in architecture and writing, Hart emerged in the 1990s as part of a generation of multimedia artists exploring issues of identity and representation. Drawing on computing, virtual imaging, and 3D animation technologies, Hart weaves together topics from art history, philosophy, and cultural studies to explore themes of feminism, embodiment, and temporality through symbolic poetics that stitch onto real-world politics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1da00feb5512","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5a4e6872c640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Born and based in New York, Hart (b. 1955) earned her BA in Art History from New York University (1978) and her MS in architecture at the Columbia University Graduate School of Architecture (1984). From 2018 – 2022, Hart taught the graduate seminar at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC). "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"102fe7c829c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d785a41b354","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hart is represented by bitforms gallery, Annka Kultys Gallery, and EXPANDED.ART.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fd269db2ac8f","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-71b168838b973aff47edef5c5e70c83afcd25876-2060x2059-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"1a4a2dc829ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"beae6b47d03c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Recent solo presentations include A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin (2023), THE MEMORY THEATERS OF CLAUDIA HART at Scope.bln, Berlin (2023), MY TRAVELS IN HYPERREALITY at ANNKA KULTYS GALLERY, London (2023) in collaboration with EXPANDED.ART, DIGITAL COMBINES at bitforms gallery, San Francisco (2022), Honor Fraser, Los Angeles (2022). Hart has undertaken prestigious fellowships and residencies including the Apex Arts Fellowship (2019/21) and the Technology Residency at Pioneer Works in New York (2018), and an Honorary Fellowship at Eyebeam Center for Art + Technology (2013-2014). She is the recipient of awards including the Esports Digital Art Prize, Hong Kong (2021), Moving Image Art Fair Acquisition Prize, NY Moving Image Art Fair (2017), and a Gameon Studios Production Grant (2016). Her work is held in the collections of numerous museums and institutions including The Whitney Museum of American Art; the Museum of Modern Art; the Metropolitan Museum; the National Gallery, Hamburger Bahnhof, Berlin; the Albertina Museum, Vienna; the Museum of Contemporary Art San Diego; the Vera List Center Collection; the New York Public Library; as well as various private collections."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cedf87f0d04b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7743bf7ec1e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Group exhibitions include Nikolaj Kunsthal, Copenhagen, Borusan Contemporary, Istanbul, Vellum/LA, Feral File, Transfer Gallery, LUX, Mozilla Hubs, and more. The artist has been featured in international art publications including Artnet News, BOMB Magazine, The Brooklyn Rail, Burlington Contemporary Journal, Digicult, Hyperallergic, Right Click Save, X-TRA, Village Voice, and others."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ea9c23e1e293","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"173796be50e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80062c41dd100","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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Starting by defining all that photography was not, the New York-based artist reimagined image-making in the early days of virtual reality. She pioneered what are now ubiquitous technologies: 3D rendering, printed sculptures, and virtual and augmented realities."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5bdcfc0643aa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"32eb52a8cdc9","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Hart’s influence on contemporary digital art is substantial. Her work is in prestigious collections and exhibitions such as, among others, the Whitney Museum of American Art, the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and the THOMA Foundation, and is the cover image of Christiane Paul’s fourth edition of DIGITAL ART, published in May 2023. The book is considered to be the canon of digital art history."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0b9acffa1eb1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dbeea6d0db8c","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Hart does know the challenges that many digital pioneers face in earning recognition. In spite of difficulties, she continues to create in her own authentic voice, her goal being to humanize the face of an advancing technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"11b9ad27a167","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"48c2cb550eb3","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In the first of three conversations with Anika Meier for EXPANDED.ART, Hart discusses post-photography, being a female artist in a man’s world, and her goal of moving contemporary art forward."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fee7c4bd3895","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart photographed by Danielle Ezzo.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9dcaa6941f141c52871344ae766f4949115c9b4b-1000x1499-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9dcaa6941f141c52871344ae766f4949115c9b4b-1000x1499-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"e960a499baa3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"22e9bf76194c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d7f0bbc2ac090","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: What does being a pioneer mean to you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"05a2baa58701","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e9ff33e1d390","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Claudia Hart: Two years ago, I was part of the Bloomberg/Hyundai Art + Technology interview series. But here’s the thing: This series of interviews paired \"pioneers\" with \"artists.\" I was the \"pioneer\" and a very successful young person whose work was related to mine was the \"artist\". I knew this interview was very helpful, but I still felt hurt."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"18cc577d94b1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b45b8263347b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the common digital-art-world vernacular of those days—two years ago—a digital pioneer was a tinkerer, not even a full-fledged member of the educated engineering class. This could be deconstructed as a person fooling around in their garage, checking out what new technology might accomplish in the spirit of experimentation, then accidentally discovering a new \"art form,\" but executed in an inelegant and awkward way, later reconstructed as real \"art,\" then perfected and expanded upon by a next generation of true \"artists.\" In short, a pioneer at best was an inadequate artist who didn’t actually count and was, in fact, as implied by the Bloomberg binary, NOT REALLY AN ARTIST AT ALL. Not good."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cb5dd2fdb7ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"038e328a57f30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since then, NFTs have peaked and now evolve, with the symbolism of the pioneer evolving with it. I’m still confused about what this all means. Are we now real artists? Or maybe I’m just a person from another planet, from a different and still incomprehensible time zone. So be it. I guess that’s why we are doing this interview: to shed some light."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"52f6b7f4c23c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1f8acb2c089f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd6f35bcc33c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I am sorry to hear you felt hurt. If I may ask, from which planet and time zone are you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"759a5b89fab0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c339f207eb8c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH:"},{"_key":"c339f207eb8c1","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" "},{"_key":"c339f207eb8c2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Well, the third planet to the right, and then straight on till morning. Peter Pan and I come from the same planet. Do you have Peter Pan in Germany?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a48b97467fe2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, L'ESPIRIT D'ESCALIER, 1990.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-803a3e095418d1bef1148a419e0e9da23904a8fd-1000x1345-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-803a3e095418d1bef1148a419e0e9da23904a8fd-1000x1345-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"645f147cf382","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7dd45e573581","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ded920606160","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Yes, we know Peter Pan in Germany. How do you define a pioneer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c818e79b7853","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ae56d00a837d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: A pioneer is someone who fell in love with an emerging technology and couldn’t stop doing it. I don’t think I am a pioneer. I think I’m a contemporary artist who is trying to make regular old art but the medium I use is contemporary to her time. And that is virtual reality. But at the time I started using them, I actually had no idea that virtual realities were \"emerging,\" what that emergence implied, or even that it would take so long to finally do so. I had no training in tech, I didn’t really understand what I was messing with, and I had no context or friends who were even vaguely interested in what I was up to. They were all painters. I’m not sure whether this is a definition, but it's my story."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1627bf79f8c3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, THE SWING (Still), 2006.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-60db893c4422713e45a818eb69aff61086764654-2044x1150-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-60db893c4422713e45a818eb69aff61086764654-2044x1150-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"6ebd7957b2d1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"187b61677524","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"99e25531c3720","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your story?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5faf2e0c6ff3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fbde87cfb0320","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Claudia Hart: My mission from the beginning was to move contemporary art forward, beyond photography. My idea when I was hired to teach at the Art Institute of Chicago was to teach my own practice and, in general, to translate contemporary art practices (painting, sculpture, installation, performance, and land art) into their next post-photography phase. But now, based on the conceptual idea of a computer modeling reality as opposed to a camera capturing or documenting it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1a9aa9b464b8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"998e2f50fd5f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"791264fa62610","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Post-photography is a term often used these days in relation to images created with artificial intelligence. But post-photography, as you have just mentioned, has a history."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dae67cadbef7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f955c761d5b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: Post-photography can be defined by what it is NOT in relation to everything documentary and "},{"_key":"3f955c761d5b1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"verite "},{"_key":"3f955c761d5b2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"about photography. It is NOT the digitalization of real, light-sensitive \"capture\" technology that happened with digital photography. Instead, the technology of post-photography suggests a radical paradigm shift with significant cultural ramifications. It does NOT \"slice\" from life but rather numerically models it with the same techniques used by scientists but also by the game and Hollywood special effects industries; the artists who produce it all use specialized compositing and 3D animation software. Instead of capturing the real in an indexical fashion, post-photography artists use measured calculations to simulate computer-generated models of the real."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ab8c6feb72a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc122d1fefb60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Artists working with post-photographic simulations have driven a wedge into contemporary media practice. These are artists who consciously isolate and define a formal language native to simulations of the real, a sub-terrain within an expanding contemporary digital culture, and integrate those elements into a variety of contemporary artistic strategies emerging from the discourses of media and of representation as they have impacted on photography, experimental film, and installation-based works."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"89dba1271226","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, DR. FAUSTIE SERIES, 1997.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2b28a57726602511c144886505ee6a5a7afb17bc-1000x1383-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2b28a57726602511c144886505ee6a5a7afb17bc-1000x1383-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"20b8f03ad1d2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aa24665b5ed1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2842a46931420","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you describe your own artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4c7bf7f237e4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fb043c2254260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I thought of myself as a painter in the line of Dürer with his drawing machines, Vermeer with his camera obscura, then Robert Rauschenberg who used print processes, and of course, David Hockney, and pop artists like James Lichtenstein, who was my favorite. They translated paintings, all filtered through the technologies of their time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bc87e4d6f525","_type":"moduleQuote","quote":"I was a female artist in a man's world."},{"_key":"0b93bc0b1a96","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ad051f225f2f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb32c7e102b50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: All of the artists you just mentioned are male. With your artistic practice, you tried to break into the male-dominated field of painting while at the same time combining art and technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c06eb958baa7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b8c97d0f90e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I was a female artist in a man’s world. So I embraced beauty very intentionally. I was feminizing certain genres, such as the nude and still life. I make animations that are like paintings and tangible paintings that are delicate. I express my own kind of sensuality by using pastel colors and decorative elements."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"400bce647f52","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e34585dca14b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc3d103f28d00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Nature has been a recurring topic in your digital and physical artworks over the past decades. A point of reference is the history of still-lifes and landscape paintings. How do you approach this genre?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"28612f6cadd0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"42087831bd540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I am interested in classical genres like still lives, landscapes, and nudes because they are language bytes,\" canons, or cultural memes, meaning a basic unit of visual representational language easily understood by everyone. I then invert these bits and bytes and turn them into \"impossible\" figures, meaning paradoxical forms. They are mental models turned upside down. I want them to be unsettling and strange, and in this sense, subjects for meditation and contemplation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a19fe393c4e0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"305bb53b7896","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f539ae6970e50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are your thoughts about nature in the age of the metaverse?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"34b811226736","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e864acf103b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: There is earthly nature and the cloud version, meaning the metaverse. The metaverse is a model of nature, and since humans are a part of nature, it is a model of our minds. I have always been a version of a philosopher of mind, and I feel that as a human being, I’m literally a product of the cognitive sciences. My father was diagnosed as psychotic, and as a precaution, my mother sent me to a psychiatrist when I was a child. As it turned out, I didn’t inherit it, but I was nevertheless literally raised by head-shrinkers, one of the branches of cognitive science, which also includes Computer science, AI, and various philosophies of mind, whose works I started reading when I was a teenager. So the metaverse is actually my natural terrain in all ways. Personally, I feel more comfortable there. There are just too many mosquitoes out there in the natural world, which I much prefer in its metaverse version, especially right now, as I write this, in the middle of summer."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2f9b6b674698","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, DR. FAUSTIE'S GUIDE TO REAL ESTATE DEVELOPMENT, Shift Kunstverein, Berlin, 1997.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-80d8b0a59d55cf48aa9f82526798eeed45b7403f-900x771-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-80d8b0a59d55cf48aa9f82526798eeed45b7403f-900x771-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"d879260bd870","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cf52fa4ea38","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bccec34e92420","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What interested you about painting in particular?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3d9e844227bb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07ed56506bae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I never went to art school. I studied architecture and building conservation at Columbia University's graduate school between 1981 and 1984. This was the period of \"paper architecture\" and The New York Five, a group of conceptual architects who at that time only drew and never built."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3045695fcd18","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"762536a660c90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It was before computer software came into architectural practice. Artists like Vito Acconci and Dan Graham, who were being celebrated at that time and showing at important galleries—then Leo Castelli and Marian Goodman—were part of the community. There was a lot of lively discussion about breaking the boundaries between architecture and art. Land Art was born then, as was performance art, now canons of the art that came after Modernist abstract painting. We can look at algorithmic art and its history as a bringing-into-the-present of Modernist Abstraction. You can see that clearly in the early plotter drawings."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8864d7d07b11","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9861e1aa33cc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But there is this other story, which is a story about pictures—the one that starts in the Renaissance and moves through Pop Art. At the same time, when I was in graduate school and learning from Graham and Acconci, another gallery called Metro Pictures started showing photo-based art that they positioned in relation to Pop Art, New-Age European cinema, and Conceptual installation artists like Acconci and Graham. They were called the Picture Artists. I am a lover of evocative images, paintings and photographs and pictures of all kinds. So I fell in love with them, with artists like Cindy Sherman, Mike Kelley, Jack Goldstein, Gretchen Bender, and Robert Longo."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0dda4d013763","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5565832c5e77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1f52be8eee210","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did the picture artist influence your art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5f9faac973b1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6af910297a80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH:"},{"_key":"b6af910297a81","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" "},{"_key":"b6af910297a82","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Very directly. I expanded into digital, what I thought of as post-photography, meaning 3D animation, and then VR and AR as they were invented. I thought I’d get a gold star and a little halo for discovering that the age of photography had ended. In fact, as seems obvious to me now, when I was young and dumb, no one wanted to hear about this. They loved photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fb51fbdd3367","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, ART OF WAR, 2007.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-576179bd5192859bec8d2774e2c76a88ead2887b-1756x1194-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-576179bd5192859bec8d2774e2c76a88ead2887b-1756x1194-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"62a4efb8a643","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"34ec415369e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c96407b4bbc10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: So, you didn’t get a gold star and a little halo. What has happened instead?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"087d1623b9bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8bbf68ca2540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I became a pioneer of the transitional artist, an artist that can move fluently between different art worlds, both the tangible and the digital."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ceeab3f648f0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"953f298a24ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b0b4e6acf7e40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you get started expanding contemporary art using new media?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"81bd27f151e2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"40c9ffc98a6d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: In 1995, I had a life-changing experience. I saw TOY STORY in pre-release at the Berlin Film Festival. The technology used to produce it crunches big data, meaning accumulated scientific information about the natural world, to re-synthesize to produce more or less realistic pictures. I think of Maya, my 3D animation software, as epistemological because it crunches accumulated scientific knowledge: mathematics, topography, Newtonian physics, material sciences, biology, optics, the physics of light, gases, particles, and waves, kinesthesiology, and anatomy. You input values that come from scientific recordings and observations to create a simulation of how things look, move, grow, etc. That’s what gives 3D animation its uncanny, seductive aesthetic. Strangely enough, I felt that TOY STORY defined a new paradigm for representation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"39c1e0f27739","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, E WITH JUG EARS IN MUGLER APRON DRESS, 2002-2004.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d7322623d6292cef30533ace628dd4d5c8960f1a-1000x700-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d7322623d6292cef30533ace628dd4d5c8960f1a-1000x700-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"8b7d680839ab","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5a74cb32e75a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e1253db8fb00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Today, there is a sort of big community of artists, collectors, curators, and writers engaging with each other on Twitter and offline all around the world. How did you meet artists, curators, and collectors?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dc3cc41b4439","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"578f8bbae34c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Claudia Hart: I was alienated from my peers in New York. I started by showing with the Pat Hearn Gallery in the East Village in NY, to whom I was introduced by my friend, Tishan Hsu, who is currently experiencing an incredible revival. We were called identity artists, working with unorthodox ideas about gender. I was also called an \"Intermedia\" artist. I made text paintings and used print media to make them; I combined different printing techniques in experimental ways; I produced sculptures, Super-8 movies, and black-and-white photographs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c989fad7501b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cfda0bbc1f040","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In those days, one actually met people in real life. The art world was not so big. I went to the openings. I met people and sat around in cafes afterward and talked. When I started using 3D simulations, those same people thought I was no longer an artist. The word on the street was that Claudia Hart had quit art and was now a scientist. So I left New York. I moved to Europe. I got a grant from the American Center in Paris and lived there for two years. After that, I got a second grant and residency from the Künstlerhaus Bethanian, then run by Christoph Tannert, who recently retired. I married a German, broke up with him, and then married Kurt Hentschlager, a well-known Austrian media artist. Kurt and I have been together for the past 27 years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b2db1c8ea745","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"51edda1b8b9f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Residencies are also great ways to connect. Hippie style: a commune—you live together. In Berlin, I also got one of the first fellowships made specifically for women, for a Super-8 movie I made starring myself as an 18th-century gentleman."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1f5358691719","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3cf0668e6dda","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f48dbed9c2a10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: A lot of the early pioneers shared stories about being rejected. How was it being a female artist pioneering digital art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"488ab3ca57eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"47b29492d9ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH:"},{"_key":"47b29492d9ac1","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" "},{"_key":"47b29492d9ac2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My main problem was that the other computer artists in my age group were not involved with pictures or with Pictures Theory. Issues of representation dominate contemporary art because of its historical lineage. The digital scene was, as I mentioned, concerned with the invention of new tools and used them to create many genres of work, including the algorithmic. Computer culture is driven by this, by innovation, and by the desire to create new technological tools. Innovation, therefore, is both its form and its content, so this means it’s a culture of the \"next new thing,\" and the byproduct of that is a kind of ahistoricism."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cf3bf42012ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3d9a577f33120","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"What seems to be shared in this digital culture is the impulse to reinvent art from scratch. I did not feel this in any way. In fact, it was my mission to do the opposite. I wanted to expand contemporary art, and my mission was to connect the past to the present. To connect the dots."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"53aba929b518","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f17ea0d09eba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I’m not sure how much being a woman was part and parcel of my general attitude. For sure, the tech culture coming out of Silicon Valley was way more sexist than the identity politics and artists that dominated the art scene I was involved in during those first East Village days. This was a part of it. But in addition to that, I am not in any way a futurist. I’m not concerned with innovation. I have always been an artist of my own time. I did not invent new tools. Instead, I used what was available. I hacked together existing tools to do things they were not designed to do. The software I used might have been obscure, but it was readily available. To my surprise, my Intermedia art friends were not interested in any of it, but I was totally oblivious to the fact that the computer artists weren’t because, in fact, I didn’t know any."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b8b1058f8d03","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, ANGEL (wings from WINGS OF DESIRE), Kunst Werke, Berlin, 1990s.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c6fce14c0515985e8e8c5651a5820e5c814597b1-1000x1482-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c6fce14c0515985e8e8c5651a5820e5c814597b1-1000x1482-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"8004fdb650b0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5cc5725c4297","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06a78a7e14910","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: It’s sometimes better not to be the first or too early."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c7956cf61ae3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ae9e9f523450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I don’t care about being first. That need is a part of the innovation culture, not mine. I just want to expand art, not destroy and replace it. I feel a deep connection to work that drives a wedge into history. But my ideas about how one might do that are not limited to the idea of new tools and innovation. To me, driving a wedge into art requires a kind of beauty. Mine is not an anti-aesthetic. I love work that takes the viewer to another place and possesses a kind of sublime aesthetic, bringing us into a state of reverie—a thing of uncanny beauty. That’s what counts to me the most."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"538242104694","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"7560cf77e3e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5db8293ed259","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This text is part of a 3 part series of conversations between Claudia Hart and Anika Meier discussing the history of digital and the artist's career from the early 1990s on until today. From contemporary art to digital art, from new media art to generative art and NFTs. From New York to Berlin and back. 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Starting by defining all that photography was not, the New York-based artist reimagined image-making in the early days of virtual reality. She pioneered what are now ubiquitous technologies: 3D rendering, printed sculptures, and virtual and augmented realities.\n\nHart’s influence on contemporary digital art is substantial. Her work is in prestigious collections and exhibitions such as, among others, the Whitney Museum of American Art, the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and the THOMA Foundation, and is the cover image of Christiane Paul’s fourth edition of DIGITAL ART, published in May 2023. The book is considered to be the canon of digital art history.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"claudia-hart-in-conversation-with-anika-meier-pt-1"},"store":null,"subtitle":"DIGITAL ART HISTORY AND POST-PHOTOGRAPHY","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-96d7e8da894363ba20b4f2fbd5dc76402285e163-700x700-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"CLAUDIA HART: \"I AM NOT A FUTURIST\", CONVERSATION WITH ANIKA MEIER PART I"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"294805e2f084","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-06-25T19:34:48Z","_id":"34f090eb-443f-4fb3-b77b-4d1ceb1c1299","_rev":"dZ1bpYeXEPIJKyOfuKQZW7","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T15:04:08Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d30636fda1ca9d6c6f0fed8415aba0a8d87b4198-1024x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"97b70d13292b","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"944954993460","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e50f2a317dd00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Claudia Hart wrote her way into visual art. Leveraging her positions at ID and later at ARTFORUM, Hart took the opportunity to explore the obscure corners of design and contemporary art and became obsessed. Her obsession led to her curating an exhibition in 1984 about art and design crossover, an impulse that then swept the art scene. It was called HOUSE ON THE BORDERLINE, and was staged at White Columns, New York's oldest alternative non-profit space. The artists, curators, and writers she met—from the gallerist Holly Solomon to artists Dan Graham and Ericka Beckman—guided her. Hart's explorations led her to rediscover herself as an artist using multiple mediums, from the decorative arts to painting and animation."},{"_key":"e50f2a317dd01","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d3659db3d71","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e50f2a317dd02","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In the mid-1990s, Hart saw the movie TOY STORY at the Berlin Film Festival. It inspired her to animate A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI (Penguin Edition, 1996), her most well-known illustrated book. This piece has lasting relevance. First because of its profound human theme—political strategy and the will to power—but also because the artist translated her version of Niccolò Machiavelli's Renaissance treatise THE PRINCE from one new technology into the next over the course of thirty years."},{"_key":"e50f2a317dd03","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ef426e921216","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e50f2a317dd04","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In the second of three conversations with Anika Meier for EXPANDED.ART, Hart discusses her early artistic influences, how Europe transformed her into a digital artist, and the \"mind and body split\" in her visual and literary work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"58d673c70c7a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"85336da21165","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3d2b2b2fb2b70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: You are a writer and an artist. What was your first job as a writer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8392cd95e719","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"857559bff7c5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Claudia Hart: After graduate school, I answered an ad in the New York Times for an editorial position at ID, a famous modernist design magazine at the time called Industrial Design. Although I was trained in both architecture and preservation, I always wrote and thought I wanted to write fiction from the time I was a little girl."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4f71cd1b2d07","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"900614504ca10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For a school assignment, I wrote a chapter for what I thought would be my first novel when I was 11, in the sixth grade. It was about a little Italian-American girl growing up on the Lower East Side of New York. I read books on Italian grammar and an Italian to English dictionary, and included sentences in Italian. My teacher, Mr. Camaratta, now long dead, accused me of plagiarism and called my mother. I spent two weeks in bed crying. My mom said that I didn’t have to go to school after that, and I became famously truant and remained so my entire life—she said I only had to show up to take tests. This made me socially inept, but I maintained the practice my entire life. I also gave up on fiction writing. But I continued to write, and in graduate school, I wrote about architecture and design from a social point of view. My graduate professors helped me publish. So to return to ID, I could write well, so I got the job."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ebd6f19656b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"daea187034980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was associate editor at ID, one of two young people brought in to revive the magazine. The editor was Steven Skov Holt, who later became a design historian and is the Distinguished Professor of Industrial Design at California College of the Arts. He also invented the word Blobject, a term that was used to qualify the new apple-molded plastic look that came out in the early eighties. He wrote a book called \"Blobjects and Beyond: The New Fluidity in Design.\" I, on the other hand, was interested in what was being called at that time in the mid-eighties, \"Art-Design Crossover.\" It was centered around the gallery of the late Holly Solomon, and she showed artists like Judy Pfaff, Joan Mitchell, Gordon Matta-Clark, Laurie Anderson, Robert Kushner, Nam June Paik, and William Wegman. She also supported the Pattern and Decoration art movement of the late 1970s and early 1980s, which rejected the austerity of Post-Minimalism and Conceptual Art. The \"P and D\" artists included Miriam Schapiro, Valerie Jaudon, Tommy Lanigan-Schmidt, and many others.\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e5a15b35e802","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"ANGEL with original wings from Wim Wenders' film WINGS OF DESIRE. Photo bz Alyssa Deluccia. KW Institute for Contemporary Art, Berlin, 1995.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f43015094849e6145e075a431a050e34919536cb-1010x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f43015094849e6145e075a431a050e34919536cb-1010x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"172eb71e50c1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5bec0b7d7c4a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d9d756d0cd810","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did this background have an influence on your artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5530e65b667c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5767d4ac6c0e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I loved and still embrace a highly decorative aesthetic and often cover my 3D environments with elaborate patterns. \"P and D\" artists were maximalists, in opposition to Minimalism and Conceptual Art with their \"anti-aesthetic.\" In rebellion to Minimalism, they made low arts: crafts, fibers, wearables, furniture, and \"pretty\" paintings, and for the most part, were queer men or women. They represent the roots of the \"Identity\" artists of my generation who lived and worked in the East Village in New York, as opposed to the previous generation of contemporary artists who territorialized Soho. But all of us were in downtown New York."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b34db69688f6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1d15468d43fc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"25fd89d30ee50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You got into art through writing. How does the story continue?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"831ddd2d257a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9a5cf2387be00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: So, to return to my story: at ID, I met the people who fascinated me by interviewing them. I interviewed Holly Solomon, and she introduced me to her son, Tommy, who at that time was the director of White Columns, which remains New York’s oldest alternative art center. Tommy invited me to curate an exhibition on the topic, so I did. It was called HOUSE ON THE BORDERLINE and opened on May 19, 1984. I designed a \"pop-up\" exhibition invite (I was also obsessed with pop-up books at that time and wrote about them for ID)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d24f304f2298","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7e4f22838f54","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"263668b9f7760","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you approach curating your first exhibition?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd7b01195dc3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"387337c72dba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I ran around New York, visiting the studios of the artists that Holly exhibited and also their friends. These were artists who produced fabric works, ceramics, furniture, and paintings with a highly decorative and feminine aesthetic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"11fd45ce9abf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb58eeb6b2d40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This remains my strategy to this day. I fell in love with decorative arts when I was 25, and I still make ceramics, fabric works, and wallpapers. I have also produced monumental performances where the performers are costumed in complex wearables. But mine all deploy VR, meaning augmented reality. I produce custom augmented-reality apps with \"trackable\" patterns that function like QR codes. They allow users to see my 3D animations and models through their phone cameras by looking at my decorative, trackable patterns."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8f3b8005d461","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a61f10adbcbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At ID, I also interviewed Ericka Beckman, the artist from that time who most fascinated me. Ericka is an important experimental filmmaker who, in the past few years, has gotten support and credit for her significant role in art history. She was fascinated by virtual reality in its very early stages. She was even in dialogue with Jaron Lanier, the computer scientist and musician who is credited with inventing VR. At that time, he was the prototype for the Silicon Valley \"boy genius,\" and I think he is actually five years younger than me. Currently, he runs the Microsoft AR research lab and is pushing VR to the next level. Ericka produced stop-motion animations, building tangible models that looked like early VR. She worked with game theory and used conceptual game mechanics rather than traditional narratives. She was my heroine."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7c97eca1b650","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2ca230714880","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"91d8f222ff9e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI, 1995, flash animation, 2012. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0297162f7aca9cea74c980c1158806a3b5d01281-1100x825-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0297162f7aca9cea74c980c1158806a3b5d01281-1100x825-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"b800f79d165c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"261f573e1f4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0051f9d44bd40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When was the moment you found out you also wanted to be an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c86fbe7b3468","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e04f320a777f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: Ericka introduced me to Dan Graham. The first day that I met him, he offered me the key to his apartment. I didn’t accept it, but we ended up sharing a studio on Ludlow Street on the Lower East Side of Manhattan for a couple of years. Through them, I fell into the experimental film and post-conceptual art worlds. I was 25 years old, not a group person or a scene person, and was very confused about my identity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3553c0014148","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f2adacb50a80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I had a couple of friends but had never been involved in any kind of group or community, and I am still ambivalent about groups. Dan explained to me that I was \"really\" an artist. I took that as permission and started producing oil paintings in my tiny studio apartment on 8th Street, which I promptly destroyed. Between that and HOUSE ON THE BORDERLINE show (it really WAS!), I was completely preoccupied and obsessed, so of course, the publishers at ID fired me. But that was it! Claudia Hart, the artist was born. Boom. An explosion."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bcb8646e87c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"615016ce117f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Shortly after, I got a call from Knight Landesman, then the managing publisher of Artforum. Ida Panicelli was moving from Italy to New York to take over as senior editor of Artforum, at that time the most subscribed art magazine in the world. I have no idea how they heard of me. I got a job as their Reviews Editor, which lasted less than a year. I had the same problem as at ID: I was too obsessed with making art. So I had the distinction of being fired by two significant magazines in a single year."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"16b16a75cc5f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b6293bc45ed6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98fdd37dc7e80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: May I say congratulations?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c40a6ac5988f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0a4be6626910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2d51c039008d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1325db678fbb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: Yes, you can. At the time, I felt disgraced, but I was young and insecure. Today, I wear it like a badge of honor."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8395ae9a953a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8395ae9a953a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Through Ericka and Dan, I met many people in the Downtown NY art scene. I combined all of my interests in my early artistic practice. I made text-based paintings. I wrote hybrid, non-linear fiction and aphorisms that I painted with a brush onto smooth oil paintings, with surfaces laboriously built with a pallet knife. I learned calligraphy and wrote with a small paint brush. I also developed a character, an 18th-century poet, that I personified in various works, including black-and-white photographs and super-8 movies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"50135c96b688","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"50135c96b6880","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My work was installation-based and appeared to be theater sets, where every object was an artwork that also doubled as a prop and included hand-made sculptures. I was considered an Identity artist because my characters were half man and half woman. I exhibited with the late Pat Hearn Gallery, then on 11th Street and Avenue C, a burnt-out ruin of a neighborhood known as Alphabet City."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"74eb71c8cd56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8450ec3f6033","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"606081c7837d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"52b9d1d445cc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d66b044775cb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI, 1995, flash animation, 2012. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5d315dc041ce755652e49fb51095112c7347b047-1300x975-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5d315dc041ce755652e49fb51095112c7347b047-1300x975-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"749feb07c1a3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7c1262506e02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ccc2d3993840","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did you sell from the very beginning?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5026c1c8b916","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"71f4440ba2b90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: All of my literary paintings have sold. It was very strange because I never went to art school and didn’t really know any artists my own age. For my first exhibit with Pat Hearn, I transformed myself into Jean-Jacques Rousseau, who led the 18th-century Romantic rebellion against the rationalist Enlightenment philosophers. My expertise, when I studied art history as an undergraduate at New York University, was the 18th and 19th centuries. I was a hybrid historian from the start."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"082358ea18db","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b14b10cac8e2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3267d150287a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: At some point, you moved to Europe. Why did you make the decision to leave New York, where you had built up a network?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"adf7d2fdbbf6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e3b1195ad370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I met many people in Europe through my mentors and decided that I had to move there to go back to the source of my inspiration. A collector in Munich offered me an apartment exchange for paintings in Munich, so I jumped. After a year in Munich, I applied for residencies in Paris and, when the Wall fell, in Berlin. It was the early 1990s. I went to Europe to study history, but strangely enough, it was the site of my transformation into a digital artist."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4d1de3d11d74","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"44b94a95f3100","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Berlin was in ferment when I moved there from Paris in 1991. The Wall fell in 1989. Young artists from all over Europe flooded the city, occupying squats all over Mitte. The buildings were covered with bullet holes and more or less ruined, just like the Lower East Side when I first showed there in the mid- to late-eighties. Everyone was vying for power and the newly \"liberated\" real estate. The city was reinventing itself post-war. I entered into this culture and was fascinated by it. A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI was created in this context.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"56971a92fb01","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI, 1995, flash animation, 2012. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ae1f42a1599936e6ef4432a562d27dff275bbc8e-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ae1f42a1599936e6ef4432a562d27dff275bbc8e-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"74b3d9006232","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2a908e0f763b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ebd94e6f3de0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You turned from decorative art to politics, from painting to illustration?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7c7d45f3b575","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da8a8efd782e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I applied for and won the residency at Künstlerhaus Bethanien in Kreuzberg. I spent a lot of time at the bookstore of the nearby New Society for Fine Arts (Neue Gesellschaft for Builden and Kunst), NGBK, run by the Realismus Studio, a group of activist artists and curators."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1103605985f3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d0bbc2a2bb9f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In their bookstore, I fell in love with Comix, a new, radical form of comic books that filled one of their shelves. I read them, fascinated. There was no such thing as a graphic novel in those days. MAUS by Art Spiegelman, the Comix masterpiece, had just been released. I would stand around the NGBK bookstore reading it and other related works. I was a figurative artist interested in historical paintings, not comic books. Nevertheless, I was inspired. My response was A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI, born as a series of 31 oil paintings, where I rewrote the Renaissance treatise by Nicholo Machiavelli as a children’s book, speaking in the youth-speak of my time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3cffa2d86e6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34bff0e602520","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was reflecting on the real estate and culture war taking place in early nineties Berlin, so my aphorisms focused on the workings of power. But the strategy was the same as for all of the other works I’d produced from the beginning: text combined with image; an illustrated book that didn’t need to be read in order. Each painting was a unique piece that could be combined in any order. A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI was a hit. It was published in English, French, and German. I lived off of the proceeds for several years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"31473585ee3d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bdd23204c489","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f10f843c812c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI was born in a moment of time. But looking at it today, it has the same power and is still true. How do you see the MACHIAVELLI in today’s world in terms of art and politics?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f4e6ef899f49","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"66be70e1a3b40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: We are obviously in a period of cultural crisis, with the world slipping into autocracies, war in the Ukraine, and democracy dramatically destabilized in the USA. Social media is used to spread misinformation and engender fear and terror in order to manipulate the populace."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a44eda154cab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f1c546f4fe80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The little mottos that I wrote in the early nineties are more relevant now than ever. They seem to be pointedly directed at the cultural and political world of today. Yet when I wrote them, I felt that I was translating Machiavelli’s early 16th-century text into the politics of that time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"308848126e4b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI, 1995, flash animation, 2012. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-efbe3241aeb30ec7ff5560844397b9b8e558b909-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-efbe3241aeb30ec7ff5560844397b9b8e558b909-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"9bfac1b7637c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8c5c84c940c2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8c24a6f68d20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is that why you animated the MACHIAVELLI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fa4efda6e71f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3249126f6c910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: In 1995, I saw TOY STORY 1 in pre-release at the Berlin Film Festival, as I mentioned in our first conversation. It was another one of those struck-by-light moments, like when I met Ericka and Dan. My first impulse was to animate the MACHIAVELLI. I assumed that I would produce flip book animations, but Toy Story 3D animations combined everything I loved: realistic paintings, architecture, photography, and video."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"79cc6c76db7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea5f1f2c42b20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The simulation technologies that I used to produce it give all 3D images, animations, and VR experiences an uncanny quality. They are truly liminal, a word used in anthropology for rituals intended to bring together heaven and earth. In fact, everything produced in 3D is dreamlike. It reminds me of Renaissance paintings portraying heaven that use 1-point and 2-point perspective. 3D software wasn’t easy to access in those days. It was only available for Unix computers using the Linux operating system."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"902ee60a329c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"14fceab214b9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7726334a9b90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: If I remember correctly, the story of the MACHIAVELLI continues in New York."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6f8482749540","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2e53138bdbc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: After I saw TOY STORY 1 in Berlin, I had a dream that I was talking to my mother on the steps of Schinkel's Altes Museum. I told her that I would soon come home. I decided it was a sign because, in fact, I didn’t see how I could learn 3D animation in Berlin. So I returned to New York in 1996."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0ac3799e0488","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8655a1467cc60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"With a copy of A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI in hand, I met the director of the Center For Advanced Digital Applications, a part of New York University, which is currently offering an MS in Special Effects. He invited me to take classes there without expense. I once again jumped, this time down the Alice-Rabbit-Hole of 3D animation. What I found when I was down there was that 3D, VR, and AR—particularly the new version of AR that Jaron Lanier is now inventing—are very different from the kind of flat art I was painting and drawing previously."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"24d6375cffec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b60bc3d980500","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Works like the MACHIAVELLI use aphoristic texts combined with images that evoke illustrations. They are physical, but by combining text and image in an iconic way, they are more cerebral and conceptual. They are very “mind,\" as opposed to 3D and VR, which are more \"body.\" Virtual medium functions in a perceptual way. You feel them in your body. So my art spans two distinctive worlds, that of the mind and that of the body, with one practice portraying a single thing, the \"mind-body split.\"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f2ef11d4ba05","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, THE SEASONS (Still), 2009.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-87cab8733616d92e7680d20722eb98a5322d596b-1176x2084-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-87cab8733616d92e7680d20722eb98a5322d596b-1176x2084-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"db7c5de249b0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"23e02836a29e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2671344617410","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I assume there was another rabbit hole you fell into."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a90d2a56e3bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"87918a493ac00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: Yes. Although I started 3D animation with five MACHIAVELLI works, as I fell more deeply into my rabbithole, I abandoned them for the kind of 3D animations that are in the exhibition co-curated by you and Annka Kultys titled MY TRAVELS IN HYPERREALITY."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"322517baac43","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b3a1d1b8e66f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I found my 3D voice, it spoke in a different way than my text work. Instead it spoke the language of perceptual art. My animations are always dream-like and ambient. The pieces in the exhibition at Annka Kultys Gallery were made between 1999 and 2019. They hover in a space between the natural and unnatural worlds. These animaciones comenzaron como architectural models construidos en a computer-game space. I often paint the figures and the architecture free-hand, using a tablet but staying inside my 3D animation software space. Also important is that my 3D animations are driven by software processes mimicking physics and other natural forces that I subvert by directing them to perform in unnatural ways. These are forces we experience with our bodies in the tangible world. All of these processes come together to create a liminal object."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"98091d1d4646","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8417063d55f90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I hope they are also beautiful, beauty also being a quality of the body. In the end, my goal finally is to produce works of uncanny beauty."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"409f05749538","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bebf0f95f0f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88c8087e5ccf","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, TIMEGARDEN 01 (Still), 2004.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0c4a152b91934bdb543246c06a47641c51d73e59-1000x665-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0c4a152b91934bdb543246c06a47641c51d73e59-1000x665-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"0a949cf70572","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"1309552b46b7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aaac204dcfba","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This text is part of a 3 part series of conversations between Claudia Hart and Anika Meier discussing the history of digital and the artist's career from the early 1990s on until today. From contemporary art to digital art, from new media art to generative art and NFTs. From New York to Berlin and back. \n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"56788185601b","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"b40f433d3106","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"faf673c4-3a30-4295-871e-1d6a3761b9b5","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"39481f10f1a2","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"76fd2e4398ea","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-515719823626","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"aa54f69d3a22","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-500328104202","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"25f137346000","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8272187425034","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"5f116d6bcdfe","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8277826797834","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"e7eb36a77b5c","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"e9473d8827fd","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"3522fbfc-40e4-4b67-940a-cb8b583aab03","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"d83edf9248ee","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"119299a7-27dd-4d9e-a060-6825d9d7c069","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"ee890e3df4e3","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"89062025-e332-445d-b0ee-dc27779d5cf6","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"e51f2e498ee6","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"077860a313c9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"7a3506f2-b764-4324-ad4f-7ecf20a5c1ea","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"fb963ed11fc6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"19925fe7-24a0-419e-94e4-1461efccf545","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"a2cc48642ec6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"3dd054a2-0115-4aa9-9969-6d9c0c51a604","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"e029d019f7c6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"272a508e-24ac-4e29-a16c-bf12a8e547a5","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-06-26T11:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Claudia Hart wrote her way into visual art. Leveraging her positions at ID and later at ARTFORUM, Hart took the opportunity to explore the obscure corners of design and contemporary art and became obsessed. Her obsession led to her curating an exhibition in 1984 about art and design crossover, an impulse that then swept the art scene. It was called HOUSE ON THE BORDERLINE, and was staged at White Columns, New York's oldest alternative non-profit space. The artists, curators, and writers she met—from the gallerist Holly Solomon to artists Dan Graham and Ericka Beckman—guided her. Hart's explorations led her to rediscover herself as an artist using multiple mediums, from the decorative arts to painting and animation. \n\nIn the mid-1990s, Hart saw the movie TOY STORY at the Berlin Film Festival. It inspired her to animate A CHILD’S MACHIAVELLI (Penguin Edition, 1996), her most well-known illustrated book. This piece has lasting relevance. First because of its profound human theme—political strategy and the will to power—but also because the artist translated her version of Niccolò Machiavelli's Renaissance treatise THE PRINCE from one new technology into the next over the course of thirty years. \n","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"claudia-hart-in-conversation-with-anika-meier-pt-2"},"store":null,"subtitle":"CULTURE WARS AND ANIMATIONS","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-05504c3e7765f6a83db3278fb6252653c3c089a0-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"CLAUDIA HART: MIND AND BODY, CONVERSATION WITH ANIKA MEIER PART II"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"d7b597b3bb4b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-07-18T10:27:23Z","_id":"119299a7-27dd-4d9e-a060-6825d9d7c069","_rev":"Dsvmdo48qp4ou0OJOUZ5le","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T15:04:37Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5b5ff90195e989248d2a0b48bab5273751cc7be3-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"13ffd0fae27a","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"fa59cd4d2f6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fa59cd4d2f6f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"With a background in architecture and writing, Claudia Hart came into the spotlight in the 1990s as a multimedia artist interested in investigating themes of representation and identity. Hart integrates subjects from art history, philosophy, and cultural studies to examine themes of feminism, embodiment, and temporality through symbolic poetics that embroider onto real-world politics. She does this by drawing on computing, virtual imaging, and 3D animation technologies. No matter the medium, Hart has made a name for herself by creating uncanny, mesmerising images."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dac80f4484a7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"87fbc91be7f90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In the third and final of three conversations with Anika Meier for EXPANDED.ART, Hart speaks about her journey from painting to animation, virtual reality, and NFTs; her background in architecture and its influence on her practise of creating uncanny images; and how Hart, as an artist of our time, sees the present."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cfbcb038e671","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Portrait of Claudia Hart, courtesy the artist.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b7a22be37e12652b94aa39c6ce78ca5c1ebb705a-2002x2002-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b7a22be37e12652b94aa39c6ce78ca5c1ebb705a-2002x2002-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2cd312ca883e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1463d356dd4e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0463c005e1440","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: You are known for creating uncanny images. How do you achieve this?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"015db56c54e2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"457ce1ee396c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Claudia Hart: My 3D animations are driven by software processes mimicking natural forces, like wind rippling across trees and flowers or a body slowly growing old and wrinkled through the force of gravity. I often subvert these natural processes by directing them to perform in unnatural ways. These are the forces that we as human beings experience with our bodies in the tangible world in the course of everyday living. When I reduce gravity or dramatically speed up the breath of an avatar so that it is noticeably out of sync with the rustling of leaves, a viewer perceives this off-ness at the edge of their consciousness. When I layer many of these subtle a-synchronizations into a single animation, even when there is very little action otherwise, I create an uncanny image."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4c69bd3e7099","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4c69bd3e70990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In THE SEASONS, a 12-minute 3D animation I made in 2007, I thought of myself as reimagining a classical sculpture of a seated woman, but a new version of sculpture that was simulated—one that existed in the unreal space and time only possible inside of a computer. Her body slowly melts, sunken by gravity as we all are when we age, ultimately decaying after we are dead and buried. We all experience this slowly, over the course of a human lifetime, but not in the course of an eleven-minute animation. At the same time, I also simulated roses that grew and then disintegrated, as they might over the course of a summer. And simultaneously, I simulated rocking my virtual camera. I moved it, as if it were hand-held, back and forth, always keeping it centered on the seated figure, so you could not really see any rocking, only perceive it at the edge of your consciousness. These contradictory rates and times confuse your mind and lull you into a reverie.\nThere is always something similarly strange and slightly off with all of my animations, but it is difficult to understand exactly what. One feels this strangeness with one’s body rather than through logic. It is perceptual and ends up being hypnotic and mesmerizing. A doctor friend once told me that medical hypnosis happens in the same way. A hypnotist asks their subject to focus on one thing, which is moving at a certain rate, while at the same time moving another object at a different rate. I started doing this with my first animations in the late 1980s. I knew they were fascinating because nothing much happened in them, but people would sit and stare at even a very short animation, looped ad infinitum."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"01ebadbb4376","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01ebadbb43760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This piece, MORE LIFE, was one of the first that I produced after the series of book works that I did in the early nineties. I consider it to be the beginning of my current installation-based 3D animation practice. It is only 30 seconds in length. I made it in 1998, but it was first shown in ANIMATIONS, curated by Carolyn Christov-Barkargiev (Christov-Bakargiev was Artistic Director of dOCUMENTA-13) and Larissa Harris at MoMA PS1 in 2001-2002, and later at Kunstwerke Berlin in 2003.\n\nThe presentation format for this work is a large TV placed on the floor in the corner of a dark room, mirroring the scene represented in the animation: a TV in the corner of a dark room displaying a stuffed bear, speaking in a corner of yet another dark room, standing in front of a TV in a dark room, also broadcasting the same talking head—a stuffed bear, speaking in a dark room. MORE LIFE is a recursive system, meaning a self-reflecting system, one that uses itself to build itself, just like those used in the programming languages of thinking machines like the computer. The soundtrack is an audio grab from the 1982 Ridley Scott film BLADE RUNNER. Hauer plays Roy Batty, an android programmed to live only a couple of years. So \"I want more life, fucker,\" is what Batty says before crushing the head of his creator, the director of a fictional computer multinational, the \"Tyrell Corporation.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"42a21d615955","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"31d7bd1fbff30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the same line is DREAM from 2009. It marks the start of my collaboration with the composer Edmund Campion, who is credited with being the first to use computers to collaborate with him in his creative process. Ed is also the director of the Centre for New Music and Audio Technology, a part of the University of California, Berkeley. I am a Fellow there and have been very involved with helping them set up their audio-visual doctoral programme. In this one, I slowly turn the camera 90 degrees as the figure drifts first from left to right and then vertically up, as if she were being sucked up a pipe. To do this, I changed the direction of gravity midcourse from moving in a horizontal direction to moving in a vertical direction. Both of these things create the kind of perceptual confusion that is hypnotic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dcdabdddbdfe","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, THE SEASONS, 2009.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-dbc773bbfb2bd0bbf9c7b85dc0fd2707e61b16ad-1125x1999-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-dbc773bbfb2bd0bbf9c7b85dc0fd2707e61b16ad-1125x1999-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"f6843c19fc5b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9751b683b47d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a7d7288f187e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You speak of animations. When looking at the history of art, where do you see yourself?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2dde30a51032","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f52eb6f24e640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I think of my work as simulated paintings, sculptures, and architecture. From the beginning, I wondered: if a building, a sculpture, or a painting were fake, how would they exist in time? What would it be like? Yes, it would be slow, and it would also be odd."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b4fc1557f1ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9eca48a1b864","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"All 3D pictures are odd. They hover in an in-between liminal space between photographic capture and a perspective hand drawing. In school, I learned about and became fascinated by the development of perspective. I was particularly struck by drawings by the 18th-century \"Visionary\" architects making drawings during the period of the European Enlightenment, when data-based science as we now know it was forming. I studied art history at New York University with the art historian Robert Rosenblum. His seminal 1967 book TRANSFORMATIONS IN LATE EIGHTEENTH CENTURY ART had a lot of impact on me. Rosenblum introduced me to the European drawings of the Visionary \"paper\" architects of the 18th century. They never built; they only made drawings of fantastical buildings. Claude Nicolas Ledoux, Étienne-Louis Boullée, and Jean-Jacques Lequeu, who made what became known as \"visionary\" work because of technological advances in the science of perception, first made during the Renaissance, Rosenblum taught me about two-point perspective, developed in the 16th century by Albrecht Dürer, whose 1514 engraving MELANCHOLIA was the prototype for my own artistic identity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1a9ce213397f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a9ce213397f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I think there is a one-to-one relationship between the way we make pictures, the technology of the way we make them, and the way we do things in the tangible world. Building styles evolved because of the introduction of perspective. Architects discovered a new way of drawing that was more accurate and realistic, which was quite astonishing to the people at the time when it was new and strange. Perspective allowed them to imagine buildings in a different way. The visionary architects of the next century then produced engravings and drawings to portray new forms of architecture. They were fantastical and imaginative, but at the same time real."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0b3e0110f53b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3fcf1714b56","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It is no coincidence that these 18th-century works were also related to the \"paper\" architects that I studied with at Columbia University in the eighties, what they then called \"propositional\" architecture. The core group was called The New York Five and included Peter Eisenman, Michael Graves, Charles Gwathmey, John Hejduk, and Richard Meier, with associated others including Kenneth Frampton and Gwathmey's partner Robert Siegel, who all taught at my school. Frampton was my advisor—the one who encouraged me to write and helped me publish my first essays. And, as I mentioned in one of the other interviews, artists like Dan Graham and Vito Acconci were also part of the same discussion. We were all looking at the Visionary architects, the most important to me being Jean-Jacques Lequeu, whose pornographic, self-referential drawings I assiduously copied when I first taught myself how to draw in the 1980s after deciding that I was NOT an architect but rather an artist. All of them produced radical architectures that seemed to exist in familiar but strangely unfamiliar worlds. All were men. My teachers. There were other young women also in the program, and we tried to drive a wedge into this male-dominated world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"466621bae396","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"466621bae3960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The impact of the 18th-century Visionary architects that I learned about when I was in my early twenties still permeates my work. It’s like my artistic perfume. You can smell it in everything that I do. This was the invite card for EMPIRE, a four-channel animation that I made in 2009 and showed in a larger survey of my work from that period. It was curated by Murray Horne at the Wood Street Media Art Centre in Pittsburgh in 2010."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b9b13f524885","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cdc19a198ed90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EMPIRE was inspired by the 1836 paintings of Hudson River School artist Thomas Cole's series. The building is supported by a diverse group of Caryatids that slowly decay and grow moldy as the 10-minute animation transits from sunrise to sunset. This piece is based on CENOTAPH, a drawing by Étienne-Louis Boullée, the 18th-century French Visionary. I also included statues inspired by the Palaeolithic VENUS OF WILLENDORF figurine. The figures sink and decay; the color morphs from pink to blue, from sunrise to sunset, as the camera slowly zooms in, going to black and then restarting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1baf094ddcde","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, EMPIRE (video still), 2010.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b6e6c0a04e4fc2a5813973e7ab514cd92fd66bf1-1500x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b6e6c0a04e4fc2a5813973e7ab514cd92fd66bf1-1500x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"a51bb43c811a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, Installation View: EMPIRE at Wood Street Galleries, Pittsburgh, PA, 2010.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-55e95bdb29b3338a8af494c81f3ab3689815894e-1500x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-55e95bdb29b3338a8af494c81f3ab3689815894e-1500x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"a78c6d640287","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6030d480d89e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7f82e18ee84b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did architecture influence your animations later?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"764fd0f5a358","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"764fd0f5a3580","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: From the beginning, I was inspired by the architectural design of the computer interface of my 3D animation software. I’ve used the same software since the very first art pieces I made in the nineties. I still work with it today. Part of it is the process I, as a user, enact whenever I make an image or an animation in 3D. I begin by building a model in an architectural game space. If I am not making an animation OF architecture, I still build one that I use as a kind of \"virtual studio\" in which I paint or design sculptures. But instead of using a pencil or cardboard, I always built them in Maya, my 3D animation software that I learned when it first came out in 1998."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d4157296e586","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"40700c69daa2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The conceptual interface design of Maya was very important to the development of my art, in the same way that a camera profoundly affects a photographer. We artists all live inside our apparatuses. So when I build a world in Maya, I feel like I am an avatar constructing an environment in a computer game world. It is a strange experience because I have the illusion that I am physically building my worlds with my entire body, but instead I am actually holding a mouse and staring at a screen. I then paint my worlds, often \"free-hand,\" meaning by eye. But again, I am tangibly moving a mouse around on a table, staring at a screen, rather than holding a paintbrush in my hand and staring at a piece of stretched linen."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2cddd8665035","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4ca2f1aad588","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"To heighten my own self-deception, I usually wrap my models (or what we call \"texturing\" in 3D-speak) with photographs of linen. I use a \"watercoloring\" computer tool that also simulates gravity. My fake watercolors appear to drip and spread. So even my simulated painting techniques mimic natural forces. What I do is not a tangible painting but, instead, an enactment. It is a simulated, virtual performance of art-making. I perform traditional painting or sculpting inside an artificial world. It is very bizarre and dreamlike. Even after the 25 years that I have used the same 3D software, it does feel supernatural to me. It is a dance between the real and the fake. My body dances with my simulation software. They meet in virtuality, in a choreographed conflict of opposites, creating strange but familiar works of uncanny beauty."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"506126b3bebf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d50b8ef4b29c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I very intentionally danced the dance of painting simulation in 2020, when I produced THE RUINS at bitforms gallery, New York. The show opened during the COVID quarantine. The installation included 3D animations. I tried to subvert my sculptural 3D animations to make them seem flat, again with the goal of creating perceptual confusion that would mesmerize and fascinate. These were very short animations inspired by Matisse paintings, including the ones pictured here: BIG RED (2019) and THE GREEN TABLE (2020). I wanted them to be ultra-short—only one minute. My goal was to make them hypnotic so that no one would notice how short they actually were. They should exist in an infinite present tense. To create the illusion, each animation included many floral arrangements, all moving at different rates, and organic noise patterns that also unfolded at varying speeds. It worked.\n\nThe Black Lives Matter movement was happening, and I felt that it was profoundly important. I was thinking about systemic collapse and showing the flow of history as a cycle of decay and regeneration. I imagined myself navigating out of the paradigm of a fixed photographic capture of the real into a reality of malleable and inherently unstable computer simulations and systemic collapse."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9228262ad606","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, Installation View: THE RUINS at bitforms gallery, New York, 2020.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1624e3632c889eaa864f3370c55eaa55e020dbb2-1999x1335-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1624e3632c889eaa864f3370c55eaa55e020dbb2-1999x1335-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"fb630361d45f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"78c402bf687e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1bf388c08cb20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: During the pandemic, you also minted your first artworks."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"248fc8b19be0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98af89b7e6c00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: THE RUINS is a 3-channel animation. In it, I track through a claustrophobic, labyrinthian game world from which there is no escape. I imagined myself as an art forger, making illegal copies of paintings by Matisse, Picasso, and other patriarchs of the School of Paris. The joke was that these forgeries were actually virtual sculptures—3D computer models of their famous still-life paintings. This was how I started with NFTs. I wanted to mint my fake sculpture and fake painting forgeries to make them non-fungible. My blockchain contract would determine me to be an \"Autour,\" meaning a person with a powerful cultural signature—a status from which I was excluded because I have been a woman for my entire adult life. It’s still a problem due to my age. The digital art culture is youth culture, making it difficult for people over the age of 65, which I am well over.\n\nI painted my models in the game space by eye, carefully imitating the brushstrokes made by the \"masters.\" It's important that my work feels personal. The idea is that they should be understood as being made WITH a computer, not BY a computer—a kind of duet that is my life-long practice.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1d0a6cfae578","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, Installation View: THE RUINS at bitforms gallery, New York, 2020.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ea27ad789fc7d52551cda154f761c4aae79cab9d-1500x1001-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ea27ad789fc7d52551cda154f761c4aae79cab9d-1500x1001-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"14d71ba654db","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b05eae89781d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8dd38edfa4b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Not being bound to one medium is an integral part of your evolution as an artist. So for you, the next logical step was to combine digital and physical artworks when minting?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"41499fa9a410","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"209cd29ed0530","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: In 2021, post-pandemic and the explosion of NFT, I introduced a new hybrid art form, what I called the DIGITAL COMBINE, part handmade painting, part text (minted on the Blockchain as part of the NFT distributed contract). I was interviewed about it in OUTLAND, RIGHT CLICK SAVE, and FLASH ART at that time. I generally think of NFT as a bridge between the tangible world and the \"Cloud,\" our current reinterpretation of that which was formerly known as \"Heaven.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c9fb77ef937e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ca65b6301605","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I appropriated the term combine from Robert Rauschenberg to propose an artistic genre in which a tangible work is united with an ephemeral one. Likewise, Rauschenberg’s radical version of expanded painting mixed sculptural and painted elements together into a single work. In my parallel construction, DIGITAL COMBINES pairs a painting with a text, minted on the blockchain as part of the NFT contract."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f74f6fd7b0f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"abb4e18e2ee9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Simulation is at the heart of my painting production. In THE RUINS, an installation at bitforms, I produced an animation in which I imagined myself as a forger. For the tangible paintings, I continue with that narrative. I generate each unique work in my gameworld, producing a still life \"by hand\" in a game space. I then take hardwood panels with distinctive grains, tangibly hand-paint them, and then spray them with pure pigment in layers with a computer-driven airbrush machine. I then combine my \"simulated\" tangible paintings with a digital simulation—purely literary—that is then minted as an NFT as part of the blockchain certification. They are one."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0d1909112fe2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, Installation View: THE UNFOLDING at Haynes Projects, Chicago, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c0a3b9e2b684da7a22aaca771e77306a570bae0c-1600x1067-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c0a3b9e2b684da7a22aaca771e77306a570bae0c-1600x1067-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"533d06cbbfd0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"73f3f0dce003","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f6977a7d3f210","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is the technology you use an integral part of creating artwork to you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"45826426111b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"347664a0b0260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: It is actually the software that I use that deeply inspires me. I have often written about and taught the philosophy that is embedded in my software. Because I live inside it for so many hours a day, both teaching it and producing work with it, I understand it as a parallel world that has driven my understanding of culture as it now stands. We all agree that western culture is liminal now. Meaning that it spans virtual spaces in the metaverse and the tangible world. When I animate in 3D, my hands and my head are in the cloud, and my body is on Earth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"abbed7cdb9e8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, Installation View: HERMITAGE 01 and HERMITAGE 02 at bitforms gallery, San Francisco, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-082e87cc86663d6389dd0b7b93580ea8d3aad2fd-1999x1125-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-082e87cc86663d6389dd0b7b93580ea8d3aad2fd-1999x1125-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"10ac6f928995","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e87c8a8297a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6c2cb9b6fc80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When we speak about your art, you use the word simulations often. How do you define simulations?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e88df4252ea9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b0a05e234bd50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I like to use the word simulation because I think of it more as a cultural term than a technical term. To backtrack again, Johannes Vermeer was my favorite painter as a child and remains so to this day because he is the master of strange enchanted worlds that are uncanny: both real and unreal at the same time. He painted his masterpieces between the mid-1660s and 1678, almost a hundred years before the visionary architects that I also love. Vermeer's paintings had this subtle, artificial strangeness that I still adore. This is because of the early version of photography that he used to produce his paintings, what is called a camera obscura. This is a lens that Vermeer placed in a way to reflect his setting, which is then reflected upside down onto his painting surface. He then traced it. His paintings are therefore subtly distorted. I spent many hours alone in the Metropolitan Museum in New York when I was a child, much of it with Vermeer. I feel very connected to him. Vermeer’s pictures were pre-photographic, and mine are post-photographic. But instead of a photographic lens, I am enabled by the kind of virtual imagining that I first caught a glimpse of when I saw TOY STORY I at the Berlin Film Festival in 1995.\n\nFrom the moment I saw TOY STORY, I was transformed. I needed to learn 3D animation, so I re-immigrated back to the USA to learn how to use the software, which was impossible to access at that time in Europe. Henceforth, my version of architecture has dematerialized. Using 3D software, I built computer models for imaginary doll-house worlds to then transform them into flickering animated projections, something like a stage set. My buildings became imaginary non-sites, both fantastical and hypnotic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6babefc81e91","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, ALICE UNCHAINED, 2018.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2c3d7498dfb90ee417eff697a45017b8ae6cbf1-1999x1125-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2c3d7498dfb90ee417eff697a45017b8ae6cbf1-1999x1125-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"e0c86646d43c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e5b62abb1078","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ffa0959fbae10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The natural progression seems to be VR when it comes to worldbuilding. When did you start working with VR?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"adb60c0b52d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f072105608300","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: VR image making is based on simulation technologies that model the real world, both mathematically and in terms of how the software interface functions. There are varieties of 3D software, but Maya, the one I use, is of a specific variety where the interface is designed to imitate all kinds of natural and phenomenal processes. The software itself uses many natural sciences to model the real world. I think of the interface design, meaning the windows that I look through to build, light, paint, and move the things I make, as a portal in which all of the windows are based on data culled from different branches of scientific knowledge.\n\nI imagine the windows of my Maya software as a library of scientific knowledge. Interface windows peek into different physical sciences, using the data and language of different branches of science to make things happen. To me, it is magical. The software itself turns me into an alchemist. Maya is philosophical software. It is epistemological. All of its windows are actually gateways into different fields of scientific knowledge, and together, their design is a graphic expression of epistemology theory and the science of knowledge itself. In my imagination, Maya, the software (and Maya, the word, which means illusion), is like The Great Library of Alexandria from ancient Egypt, once one of the largest and most significant libraries of the ancient world.\n\nAt a certain point, I started to feel constricted by this legacy. I felt like I was stuck in my labyrinthine virtual library with no way out. In 2013, Alfredo Salazar Caro, a favorite former student, and his business partner Will Robinson invited me to participate in their first Dimoda exhibition, The Digital Museum of Digital Art, an Oculus intangible museum exhibiting installations made in software game space. I jumped at the opportunity.\n\nDiMoDA is the first Oculus museum dedicated to commissioning, preserving, and exhibiting VR artworks. Alfredo and Will started it in 2013. Dimoda was staged all over the world, with gallery and museum exhibitions in New York, Miami, Chicago, Berlin, Düsseldorf, Dubai, and Bangkok, among others. I was in DiMoDA 1.0, which also included Jacolby Satterwhite, Tim Berresheim, and Aquanet 2001 (Gibrann Morgado and Salvador Loza). I had no idea how to build a game world at that point, but Will Robertson patiently taught me. I was stuck in what I thought of as a virtual underworld, so I was inspired by Lewis Carroll's ALICE’S ADVENTURES IN WONDERLAND to build a VR game version for Oculus. In Lewis Carroll's WONDERLAND, reason and unreason collide to unleash a child-like madness—not quite sweet but instead somewhat perverse and diabolical. So for DiModa, I built my first Alice garden, a larger-than-life flower architecture that shattered and reformed itself over and over. It was haunting and claustrophobic, magnified by the headset that you had to wear to enter it. That DiModa VR piece is now inoperable. The Unity software used to produce it has evolved to the point that this early example no longer opens.\n\nUltimately, working with living humans proves too difficult for me. I am what you call an introvert-extrovert, so my introverted artist self has to perform for my extrovert theater director self, which is ultimately exhausting. In the end, I prefer to be alone with my avatars. So as Alice unfolded, I decided to give up the live performances, and after making three over the course of four years, I decided to go back to my virtual cave. I used motion capture technology to do this, creating ALICE UNCHAINEDin 2018.\n\nFor my final ALICE, I worked with only two performers: Kristina Isabelle (with whom I collaborated on the 2014 ballet, THE DOLLS) and my personal trainer, the wrestler Isaias Valesquez. I motion-captured live performances made by each of us that we choreographed together. My friend, the producer Stephan Dalbera, a pioneer of mo-cap technology, hooked me up with a sophisticated commercial game company that supported the project. The technology had not gone mainstream at that point. The end result is a gender-fluid cyborg dance taking the form of a three-channel animation and VR-headset ballet. My grand finale was ALICE UNCHAINED. She was finally fully liberated from the real world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"41ae2f5c8781","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e3c43af765250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ALICE UNCHAINED is also one of several works purchased by the Whitney Museum of American Art in New York. It also ended up on the cover of curator Christiane Paul’s history of digital art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"75c32207a7c3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Claudia Hart, ALICE UNCHAINED, 3 Channel Video, 2018.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9724961c91f2dafb8cc194f28420363795ad6b8c-1999x375-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9724961c91f2dafb8cc194f28420363795ad6b8c-1999x375-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"267677dafd13","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"20d20a85c996","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7a8dbdf90b5b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have always been an artist of your time. How do you see the present?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1d735a4ebedf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1d9f34206cb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CH: I continue to push my same approach into the future. As a new present endlessly unfolds, often in unpredictable ways, I am still trying to connect the dots of a larger history and of my own history to the present."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8a3c87a5a078","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"09b517fd9dd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My general approach is to spin what ends up being very cerebral mythologies about technology. I’m very lost in my thoughts, and I actually think that my virtual version of visionary architecture frames my consciousness. I fall into 3D Cartesian space and experience it as a model of my brain. This is an intellectual love story that’s lasted a long time. So when I was invited to produce generative art for an Art Blocks drop earlier this year, I decided to keep with my long project. I was already doing DIGITAL COMBINE paintings, so I decided to dive again into painting, but using Art Blocks technology. Andrew Blanton, my old friend and collaborator who is both a composer, a virtuoso drummer, and a digital prototyper, collaborated with me on SYSTEMS MADNESS for the platform."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7705bf52ef34","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1852f783f27","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SYSTEM MADNESS is flat, meaning it wasn’t created in 3D spatialized software. With Andrew, I translated digital painting in a different way. The story I tell with this work is, as always, one of visions and visionaries. This theme governs the \"Body\" half of my split \"body/mind\" art practice. The Machiavelli and the aphoristic NFT works are my dialectical \"mind\" sides."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"70473e264f27","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"92dc42ab4d43","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SYSTEMS MADNESS was inspired by the short story THE YELLOW WALLPAPER (1892) by Charlotte Perkins Gilman. The project uses AI tools to transform literary language into a library of visual tropes, a translation of emotional expression into code. We reconstructed the pattern language of romantic era wallpapers, using warm, off-primary colors, noises, gradients, blurrings, and layerings, by applying different fractal formations, repeated like systematic wallpaper that slowly deforms if you interact with them but also if you don’t. The wallpaper patterns we created are highly irregular because Andrew encoded irregular, random deformations into what started out as regular, repeat patterns. I thought of them as expressing the very human need to create order out of chaos. Andrew also developed five poisonous flowers, all organically evolving and flowing like miniature lava lamps. The ones pictured here are Poppies and chrysanthemums, both of which are poisonous in the real world and induce hallucinations if you add them to your salad.\nTogether, Andrew and I framed a question: What happens when reason meets unreason? The response: Too much order will drive you mad. And frankly, I hope I haven’t driven YOU mad with this very long story. Just think—this is only about a third of it. 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More than 20 artists explore the duality of kitsch and its critique of modernity, technology, and online culture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0e409d3aa6e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e409d3aa6e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Bright, pastel-coloured fantasy worlds filled with unicorns, animals, and other fanciful creatures evoke feelings of tenderness and innocence. But is cuteness always this innocent? The rise of the aesthetic movement \"cute\" correlates directly with challenges of growing up and living in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9132c63698e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9132c63698e60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"THE CUTE AND UNCANNY"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3f90d4341e3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d3f90d4341e30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CHRIS DRANGE transforms digital found objects into classical oil paintings, questioning authorship and originality. With his post-digital paintings of puppies, Drange aims to convey his feelings when seeing a puppy to the viewer. Oftentimes exaggerated and adorned with kitschy emojis, Drange creates images of cuteness, irony, and oddity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a2e0fed6f6d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a2e0fed6f6d30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"LEONIE SPECHT's work mirrors self-optimization, cuteness, and pop culture, inviting the viewer to be a part of a narrow microcosm between reality and fantasy. A subtle perversion that no longer seems suspicious is manifested in her paintings. Specht is looking for common ground where the ordinary and the uncanny merge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ea996b0329eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea996b0329eb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Irony meets romantic longing in ALBRECHT/WILKE’s paintings. The artist duo interweaves formal elements, art historical quotations, and a lot of humour with the use of their key subject: the examination of the German middle class milieu and the associated clichés and insignia of Germanculture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a334580d45f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a334580d45f80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"DANIEL GEBHART DE KOEKKOEK toys with the absurdity of everyday life, using his highly acclaimed talent for the good, the bad, and the ugly to create equally unpolished and cute images, as seen in his yearly animal calendars featuring dogs, guinea pigs, alpacas, and more."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"71af59cd9cbb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"71af59cd9cbb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"CLARE KENNY’s balloon-shaped sculptures PARTY'S OVER and ALL HOT AIR replicate the slightly sad, semi-deflated balloons left behind long after a party has finished."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c83148baac8c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ab6c2a3f55d1","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"THE CUTENESS OF THE EVERYDAY"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3f010501f1e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d3f010501f1e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JOSEFINE SCHULZ explores the different realities of life and celebrates the unexcited, everyday moments of friendly togetherness in familiar situations. Schulz uses the symbol of the dog as a faithful and cute companion for her oftentimes lonely protagonists, thereby exploring the role of the dog invarious realities of life."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fad9d827fe49","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fad9d827fe490","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Queer sensitivities and the beauty of gestures and tiny details are explored in MARCIN LASZCZEWSKI’s series.Laszczewski depicts self-portraits of headless busts, a reflection of the sweet personal journey to self-discovery."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"be74f720e587","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be74f720e5870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Inspired by the CUTEST DREAM, CEVIN PARKERuses soft pastels to reveal traces of memory and represent a sensitive reflection of the world without ego."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"face1f2c1459","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"face1f2c14590","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ISIS MARIA NIEDECKEN brings small moments of joy from the everyday onto the canvas, whileaiming to find the beauty in small moments and make them tangible for others."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6d21178562a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d21178562a80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Conceptual artist JINY LAN deals with urban life in the world's metropolises and questions the moral and traditional images of women in China in extensive series, while finding beauty in these topics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"972c48fedd96","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"140f5afe380d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"CUTENESS INSPIRED BY THE INTERNET"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b22e96f410c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b22e96f410c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In his hyper realistic sculptures, JOACHIM BOSSE deals with consumerism, the influences of mass media, and the impact of echo chambers and social eco-systems in the digital age. Bosse remixes pop culture and recontextualizes famous iconography in order to question contemporary identities and cultural values."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1b4dc6a0f96c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b4dc6a0f96c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"MATEUSZ VON MOTZ’s FUCK NORMAL I WANT MAGIC series has gone viral for providing an ironic and empathetic commentary on an increasingly narcissistic society. Von Motz combines text and images on mirrors, referring to the digital meme culture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af153b073f96","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af153b073f960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"With his mirror JUST THE TWO OF US, ANDY KASSIER writes an over-dimensional love letter to his viewers. Kassier observes phenomena in social media and the development of digital image cultures. He searches for answers to currently socially relevant questions: What is happiness?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"770f3c74a9f4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"770f3c74a9f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Digital native ARVIDA BYSTRÖM has an intrinsic relationship to pink. Exploring femininities and its complexities, often tied to online culture, she travels in an aesthetic universe of disobedient bodies, selfie sticks and cute fruits in lingerie."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fb1f90ce322a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fb1f90ce322a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"THE CUTE PORTAL by NADINE KOLODZIEY is an innovative and immersive augmented reality artwork that takes viewers on a journey into a magical world of cuteness, kawaii, and wonder."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d5abe1f005e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d5abe1f005e70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ARNO BECK’s pen plotter drawing plays on our nostalgia of early computer games of the 1990s, using neon colours and pixelated images. With a special process of bouncing between the digital and physical worlds, Beck finds himself in the middle of those."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"691077be4249","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"691077be42490","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Visual artist MARGARET MURPHY focuses on topics like femininity, sexuality, and identity in a post-social media culture. 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On view will be a series of twelve unique movies with original sound, envisioning a hybrid female avatar trying out various strategies to escape virtuality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9bf8348198ba","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b256955ce6180","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Claudia Hart describes the evolution of ECSTASY, a journey of creativity in the post-digital age:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"82e1e82c4ae7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"51c8e92adf0e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"ECSTACY is the endgame of a project that I evolved over the course of 12 years, taking several forms before assuming this most evolved identity. It is a process that I often go through—the experience that art sometimes takes a score of years before finding its place in the world. I originally made a version of the piece by collaborating with 24 of my students in 2012. I made a prototype for them to respond to, sharing the skeleton of a floating avatar with them for each to interpret in their own way, using their own avatar creations. At the same time, I made many variations of mine in twenty colours with different lighting and effects. That first version was shown in an exhibition at a museum in Korea. The show was called"},{"_key":"07faf36929f91","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":" "},{"_key":"07faf36929f92","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BETTER THAN UNIVERSE, curated by Yoo Jinsang, at the Dague Media Art / ZKM collaborative space in Dague, Korea, in 2013/14."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4ba97a1a404f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c71900e5d7f20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I remade the piece in 2019, using the colourful variations that I had stored on a hard drive since 2012 but forgotten about. With them, I made a new edit and a new piece, but using the same music."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"da9f1d8b84f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e165184107690","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Seven years later, my former students were now grown, accomplished artists and professors, with many remaining close friends. When I retired from teaching, I showed it in Chicago at the School of the Art Institute Faculty Sabbatical Triennial, organized by Staci Boris, Director of Exhibitions there, at the School of the Art Institute Galleries, 2022. At that moment, that variant was called \"Dark kNight\""},{"_key":"e165184107691","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1b4613a5b48b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1034930b00ff0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Then last month, in 2024, I took the 2019 version, reinterpreting it yet again, changing colours and textures, to reformulate it into twelve short films."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a04e80ce929d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c4251e6206c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The text below was written by the critic Roger Denson in 2012 about my prototype work, also shown in an exhibition called POST PICTURES at bitforms gallery in New York. Roger wrote the catalog for that show, which was also"},{"_key":"7c4251e6206c1","_type":"span","marks":["df2a6caf5774"],"text":" published"},{"_key":"7c4251e6206c2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" and excerpted below. I believe that their checkered history is the meaning of these twelve NFTs, a story about creativity, regeneration, and community.\""}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"df2a6caf5774","_type":"link","href":"https://www.huffpost.com/entry/postpictures-new-models-f_b_4437381"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4d7d84962666","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d42870590210","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Dark kNight\" is Hart's response to Christopher Nolan's 2012 film, THE DARK KNIGHT RISES, depicting the attempt of one of her avatars to break free of the simulated world behind the screen. With \"Dark kNight\" (spelling intentional), Hart began a personal migration out of the sanctuary cocoon of her earlier automatons. She represents the attempt of this defiant one to break free of the simulated world behind the screen and describes it as a story about creativity and regeneratio"},{"_key":"1166e499b9a1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"n."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fca4e692cc23","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"42d0d49d372d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The popular Christopher Nolan film DARK KNIGHT RISES is a film about escape from imprisonment and the powers that determine who is and isn't to be imprisoned. With the film's two highly independent, physically athletic, and defiant female characters, both of whom have escaped their own entrapments, Hart was immediately prompted to envision her own restless, racially hybrid female avatar trying out various strategies to escape virtuality. In the video, we see her hurling herself against the screen, swinging from her feet by a rope and hitting the screen full body; catapulting like a human cannonball into the screen; and, as seen here, swinging with a rope by her hands and hitting the screen with her feet—all seen at various speeds. Hart claims the mythological source for the figure, besides Nolan's Batman, is the chained Prometheus, bound by the Olympian gods for bringing fire to humankind, as well as Michaelangelo's DYING CAPTIVES, who appear to struggle in their efforts to release themselves from their prisons of stone."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c334ef4e4849","_type":"moduleStatement","link":null,"text":[{"_key":"1701d58cb617","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45d78ef523d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"CLAUDIA HART: ECSTACY"},{"_key":"ea7840dc36f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n8-23 MARCH 2024\nOPENING RECEPTION: 8 MARCH | 6-9 PM CET\nClaudia Hart will be present. 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Hart leverages simulation technologies to collapse the false binaries between human and avatar, artificial and real, mind and body. With a background in architecture and writing, Hart emerged in the 1990s as part of a generation of multimedia artists exploring issues of identity and representation. Drawing on computing, virtual imaging, and 3D animation technologies, Hart weaves together topics from art history, philosophy, and cultural studies to explore themes of feminism, embodiment, and temporality through symbolic poetics that stitch onto real-world politics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1da00feb5512","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5a4e6872c640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Born and based in New York, Hart (b. 1955) earned her BA in Art History from New York University (1978) and her MS in architecture at the Columbia University Graduate School of Architecture (1984). From 2018 – 2022, Hart taught the graduate seminar at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC). "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"102fe7c829c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d785a41b354","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hart is represented by bitforms gallery, Annka Kultys Gallery, and EXPANDED.ART.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fd269db2ac8f","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-71b168838b973aff47edef5c5e70c83afcd25876-2060x2059-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"1a4a2dc829ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"beae6b47d03c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Recent solo presentations include A CHILD'S MACHIAVELLI at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin (2023), THE MEMORY THEATERS OF CLAUDIA HART at Scope.bln, Berlin (2023), MY TRAVELS IN HYPERREALITY at ANNKA KULTYS GALLERY, London (2023) in collaboration with EXPANDED.ART, DIGITAL COMBINES at bitforms gallery, San Francisco (2022), Honor Fraser, Los Angeles (2022). Hart has undertaken prestigious fellowships and residencies including the Apex Arts Fellowship (2019/21) and the Technology Residency at Pioneer Works in New York (2018), and an Honorary Fellowship at Eyebeam Center for Art + Technology (2013-2014). She is the recipient of awards including the Esports Digital Art Prize, Hong Kong (2021), Moving Image Art Fair Acquisition Prize, NY Moving Image Art Fair (2017), and a Gameon Studios Production Grant (2016). Her work is held in the collections of numerous museums and institutions including The Whitney Museum of American Art; the Museum of Modern Art; the Metropolitan Museum; the National Gallery, Hamburger Bahnhof, Berlin; the Albertina Museum, Vienna; the Museum of Contemporary Art San Diego; the Vera List Center Collection; the New York Public Library; as well as various private collections."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cedf87f0d04b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7743bf7ec1e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Group exhibitions include Nikolaj Kunsthal, Copenhagen, Borusan Contemporary, Istanbul, Vellum/LA, Feral File, Transfer Gallery, LUX, Mozilla Hubs, and more. The artist has been featured in international art publications including Artnet News, BOMB Magazine, The Brooklyn Rail, Burlington Contemporary Journal, Digicult, Hyperallergic, Right Click Save, X-TRA, Village Voice, and others."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ea9c23e1e293","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"173796be50e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80062c41dd100","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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8-16 MARCH 2024
ECSTACY by Claudia Hart is her second solo exhibition at the gallery in Berlin. On view is a series of twelve unique movies with original sound, envisioning a hybrid female avatar trying out various strategies to escape virtuality.
\nClaudia Hart describes the evolution of ECSTACY, a journey of creativity in the post-digital age:
\n\"ECSTACY is the endgame of a project that I evolved over the course of 12 years, taking several forms before assuming this most evolved identity. It is a process that I often go through—the experience that art sometimes takes a score of years before finding its place in the world. I originally made a version of the piece by collaborating with 24 of my students in 2012. I made a prototype for them to respond to, sharing the skeleton of a floating avatar with them for each to interpret in their own way, using their own avatar creations. At the same time, I made many variations of mine in twenty colours with different lighting and effects. That first version was shown in an exhibition at a museum in Korea. The show was called BETTER THAN UNIVERSE, curated by Yoo Jinsang, at the Dague Media Art / ZKM collaborative space in Dague, Korea, in 2013/14.\"
\nEXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
View the collection on OpenSea.
\nVOICES OF WEB3 is an archive of voices and statements summarising the year 2023 in digital art and culture. It is a document in time on the blockchain, bringing together some of the leading voices shaping Web3 and the history of digital art: artists, curators, and collectors.
\nTHE VOICE GEMS
The statements have been recorded in the form of spoken word, poems, and songs by the contributors and are frozen in time as VOICE GEMS on the blockchain. The VOICE GEMS were created by Harry Yeff (Reeps100) and Trung Bao, who have developed a voice-centred generative system utilizing data found in a human voice to synthesise the form and colour of the artwork.
Every voice is unique, and with that comes unique fingerprint-like data. Features like pitch, resonance, harmonics, and pace sculpt particle data points in a simulated digital space.
TRANSCRIPT
\"Syllogism and paradox have been the basis of my text-based work since my first exhibition, when I was in my twenties. And in fact, my feelings about the blockchain and Web3 are that the best things about them are also the worst things. I love that these structures embody the ephemeral and are not permanent, even when that impermanence was not intended.
So here is a blockchain syllogism that I wrote for my VOICE GEM about this:
DIGITAL ART IS NOT ARCHIVAL. THE BLOCKCHAIN IS DIGITAL. THE BLOCKCHAIN IS NOT ARCHIVAL.\"
– Claudia Hart
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract address: 0xA8E5Ec62bfec3906817cBb56728523e65E2e681d
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
A fascination with cubes is visible in Hans Dehlinger‘s work from the very beginning of his artistic expression.
Among his early drawings is a series of digitally manipulated cubes, originally produced in 1986/87 on a small pen plotter. Larger drawings followed as he gained access to a larger plotter in subsequent years.
One of the works from this series, a silkscreen print of CUBE 4, was Hans Dehlinger‘s first contribution to SIGGRAPH in 1989. Today, it is in the collection of the V&A Museum, London.
In the 1980s, Hans Dehlinger created a series of cubes as pen plotter drawings. Almost 40 years later, the now-84-year-old artist returned to this topic, and 10 new cubes, titled LINE CUBES, are emerging from code as \"aesthetic events\".
EXPANDED.ART x FOUNDATION
POEMS FOR DAMIEN HIRST by Jurgen Ostarhild is a series of text images based on the spot paintings by Damien Hirst. Each color spot was assigned the corresponding hexadecimal code (hex code). The size, proportions, and titles of the originals have been retained. A special monospace font designed for this series allows the six alphanumeric characters that make up a hex code to be mapped as a circular area.
\nEugen Gomringer, the father of concrete poetry, discovered a certain poetry in these code pictures and sees them as a continuation of his work. If one gave meaning to the individual characters, the images could be read as verses and poems. In 2019, Ostarhild was part of the exhibition PHÄNOMENE DER SPRACH-KUNST IN WORTBILDERN AUS LETTERN UND CODE curated by Eugen Gomringer at the Institute for Constructive Art and Concrete Poetry in Rehau: works in letters containing the hexadecimal code for color photography were presented. ","disjunctive":false,"gid":"gid://shopify/Collection/501132001546","id":501132001546,"imageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/collections/slider_jurgen_ostarhild.png?v=1689771763","isDeleted":false,"rules":[{"_key":"d8eab387-9bc6-5703-9f0d-09b88c300565","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"Jurgen Ostarhild","relation":"EQUALS"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"jurgen-ostarhild-poems-for-damien-hirst"},"sortOrder":"MANUAL","title":"JURGEN OSTARHILD | POEMS FOR DAMIEN HIRST","variants":null}},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"da547906ff80","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-07-19T10:15:30Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-501130920202","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfswRLz","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06.140Z","descriptionHtml":"EXPANDED.ART presents the group show THE TEXT IS THE MESSAGE. AN EXHIBITION OF MIXED MESSAGES at the gallery in Berlin.
What would Marshall McLuhan write today? Very likely text messages. The global village is now largely connected via messenger apps and social media. Life is closeness to strangers and friends, changing every second. Thoughts and feelings are shared as they are thought and lived.
Artists: Joachim Bosse, Emily Edelman, Claudia Hart, Andy Kassier, Anika Meier, Skye Nicolas, and Jurgen Ostarhild.
View the NFT (Tezos) on objkt.one.
ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
\"Landscape? No. It is a double work that Jurgen Ostarhild offers us here. A work of rereading a tradition, that of the landscape of German romanticism, first, but also a work of emotional neutralisation, of ironic distancing. It is in this in-between that the meaning is hollowed out through lyrical reference and critical derealization, as if the landscape were cut off from its sap and its flow of romantic feeling and emphasis.
The theme then, as if vitrified, imperceptibly shifts. This shift therefore tends towards derealization and classification while at the same time working on oneself through asceticism and purification of all sentimentality and the work of the clerk of the real, of naturalistic codification, and of the constitution of series. A reflection on the act of photography and the constitution of reality.\"
– Jean Charles Sabor
Skye Nicolas brings forth a collection of 100 digital artworks that undergo his distinctive process of distillation. Masterworks by Cézanne, Renoir, Gauguin, Manet, Seurat, Van Gogh, Degas, Pissarro, and Toulouse-Lautrec are rendered as pixel paintings, inviting the viewer to contemplate intricate and delicate compositional constructs.
\nAs these masterpieces undergo the transformative journey into pixels, a paradox is revealed—one that is both enchantingly accessible and philosophically reflective. This richly vibrant collection resonates with the nostalgia of the artist's childhood, harking back to the 1980s, when he first embarked on explorations of basic computer graphics on early systems like the Apple II. Embracing the limitations of an emulator, these works embody the artist's predilection for utilizing ubiquitous tools in the art production process to thoughtfully explore pertinent topics of appropriation and authorship.
\"It is truly a privilege to be living in a time when artists are able to reference, remix, modify, and creatively utilize images of such iconic masterworks—all made possible by the Metropolitan Museum of Art’s generous Open Access Policy. The MET’s decision to release these images into the public domain is a step forward in cultivating and encouraging creativity.\"
– Skye Nicolas
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract address: 0xb8b3b0e420ac16cdc5faeb8a8b0afd26a5a36623
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
ABOUT THE FLOPPY DISK
Collectors may also choose to collect a physical piece, as each pixel painting comes with a still image jpeg and txt file written on a 3.5-inch floppy disk, ready-made, labeled, and signed by the artist.
Collectors who would like to receive the floppy disk: Please get in touch via email (nfts@expanded.art) with your edition number and your address. EXPANDED.ART will send the floppy disk to you in a padded envelope.
View the NFT (Tezos) on objkt.one.
ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
SHUNDO ODDISH by Skye Nicolas integrates an extraordinarily elusive virtual creature with nature. Such representations of supernatural beings invading and residing in our physical universe have their aesthetic roots in the classic yōkai scroll art of 16th-century Japan depicting mythical monsters, illustrating a rich heritage of fantastic tales told throughout the Edo period.
In 2016, the artist played the popular augmented reality game Pokémon Go under the name VICIOUSYOUTH. After four years of immersive gameplay, he has encountered, captured, and successfully collected several \"Shundo\" Pokémon: exceedingly scarce digital creatures, an amalgam of \"shiny\" Pokémon, a highly rare and sought-after variant, and a \"hundo,\" which signifies it has perfect IVs or individual values, broken down into three statistics: attack, defence, and stamina (HP). These metrics combined make for an almost impossible catch. The work is comprised of a video capture featuring Shundo Oddish, caught on October 5th, 2019 in Santa Monica, California. The elusive grass-type Pokémon is released in a lush physical environment observed through augmented reality (AR)—an idyllic Japanese garden with its carefully curated collection of exotic flora serves as the verdant threshold for the creature. The boundary between tangible nature and the ethereal is breached, compelling us to confront the intricate interplay of existence and simulation.
\nSHUNDO ODDISH peers beyond the veil of emergent AR technologies, confronting the ephemeral nature of value extracted from the fertile soil of new digital economies, where precious digital assets are anointed as revered treasures. Ultimately, the whimsical yet disarming piece exists as a poignant reflection of our ever-growing collective fascination with the alchemy of augmented experiences. Suspended between dream and reality, we are made privy to a liminal space where the boundaries of the physical and the virtual dissolve and the botanical dances with the digital.
\nSHUNDO ODDISH echoes Jannis Kounellis’ Untitled/12 Horses, 1969, a seminal moment in postmodern art wherein the incorporation of live animals was essential to the creation of the artwork. Nicolas reframes Kounellis’ gambit with a contemporary context explored through the magical lens of augmented reality, adding new layers of inquiry while exploring the phenomenon of our increasing parasocial relationships with anthropomorphized digital entities and their role within an evolving digital economy.
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ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
SHUNDO ODDISH REDUX by Skye Nicolas melds the enigmatic aesthetics of 16th-century Japanese yōkai scroll art with the unmistakable contemporary lens of augmented reality.
The artist's four-year odyssey within the immersive realm of Pokémon Go as VICIOUSYOUTH constitutes the very marrow of this piece—an artistic pilgrimage fueled by the pursuit of exceptional digital creatures, none more compelling than the fabled \"Shundo\" Pokémon, a compelling synthesis of the elusive \"shiny\" Pokémon variant and the scarcely attainable \"hundo\" breed, renowned for their perfect individual values, bespeaks an intricate coalescence of rarity and significance.
\nNestled within the enchanting embrace of a meticulously crafted Japanese garden, an exceedingly rare variant of a grass-type Pokémon emerges through the veil of augmented reality. This is no ordinary encounter—it is a collision of tangible reality and the ethereal digital realm, beckoning us to meditate upon the nebulous boundary where existence converges with simulation.
\nPainstakingly crafted with emojis, a subtle commentary surfaces that mirrors the precarious societal tensions in an era shadowed by ecological uncertainty. This provocative jumble of ideogrammatic symbols captures the very essence of our communication, imbued with satirical undertones and the weighty levity that has come to define our discourse within the Anthropocene epoch, where the spectre of ecological upheaval looms large.
\nBeneath this vibrantly playful veneer lies an implicit homage to Jannis Kounellis' seminal \"Untitled/12 Horses, 1969,'' where the mélange of living creatures served as the conceptual heartbeat. The present work, Shundo Oddish Redux, navigates a contemporary dance between history and innovation. By casting VICIOUSYOUTH's personal voyage as both narrative and archetype, this tableau resonates with the digital zeitgeist, wherein the ethereal plane and corporeal reality intertwine. Echoing Kounellis, this piece beseeches viewers to dissect their rapport with the augmented realm and the treasures it harbors.
","gid":"gid://shopify/Product/8275606077706","id":8275606077706,"isDeleted":false,"options":[{"_key":"Title","_type":"option","name":"Title","values":["Default Title"]}],"previewImageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/files/SN_shundo_oddish_redux_web.jpg?v=1692089165","priceRange":{"maxVariantPrice":670,"minVariantPrice":670},"productType":"NFT","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"shundo-oddish-redux"},"status":"active","tags":"All NFTs, skye nicolas, sold, sold out, techno terrain","title":"SHUNDO ODDISH REDUX","variants":[{"_createdAt":"2023-08-15T08:44:40Z","_id":"shopifyProductVariant-44664807686410","_rev":"w82ijD8skFSRcs7ITMo6f2","_type":"productVariant","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:08:41Z","store":{"compareAtPrice":0,"createdAt":"2023-08-15T08:44:38Z","gid":"gid://shopify/ProductVariant/44664807686410","id":44664807686410,"inventory":{"isAvailable":false,"management":"SHOPIFY","policy":"DENY"},"isDeleted":false,"option1":"Default Title","option2":"","option3":"","price":670,"productGid":"gid://shopify/Product/8275606077706","productId":8275606077706,"sku":"NFTSK0803","status":"active","title":"Default Title"}}],"vendor":"Skye Nicolas"}},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"d9f05812a2a4","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-07-15T20:27:09Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-501020786954","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfswRLz","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06.061Z","descriptionHtml":"In his series THE INTELLECTUAL SUPERIORITY OF AI-CREATED ART, Skye Nicolas examines ChatGPT’s declarative arguments on why AI-created art is intellectually superior, using the prompt: “Provide a digital minimalist conceptual art piece making the argument why AI-created art is intellectually superior and why it should be minted as an NFT.”EXPANDED.ART presents the group exhibition A BEATING HEART. FEMALE PIONEERS OF DIGITAL ART on view in Berlin 17 May to 4 June 2023.
\nThe exhibition explores how female artists at the forefront of digital art approach the male-dominated field in a variety of mediums such as AI, AR, video, poetry, and sculpture. 16 artists delve into our relationship with technology, dissolve the boundaries of the female body, deal with young femininity and the burden of its expectations, draw a portrait of the collision of committed love, exhaustion, and desire, and ask us to consider what we truly value.
\nARTISTS: Gretchen Andrew, Ana María Caballero, Carla Gannis, Claudia Hart, Tali Hinkis (LoVid), Sophie Kahn, Martina Menegon, Marjan Moghaddam, Oona, Operator, Chiara Passa, Kelly Richardson, Anne Spalter, Sasha Stiles, Addie Wagenknecht, and Kathrin Wessling.
","disjunctive":false,"gid":"gid://shopify/Collection/498168299786","id":498168299786,"imageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/collections/slider_ABeatingHeart.jpg?v=1683915923","isDeleted":false,"rules":[{"_key":"894b37f0-f7e1-53ce-8510-2b54d2027d8d","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"A BEATING HEART","relation":"EQUALS"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"a-beating-heart-female-pioneers-in-digital-art"},"sortOrder":"MANUAL","title":"A BEATING HEART. FEMALE PIONEERS IN DIGITAL ART","variants":null}},"videoUrl":null}],"title":"ART"}],"seoDescription":"The exhibition explores how female artists at the forefront of digital art approach the male-dominated field in a variety of mediums such as AI, AR, video, poetry, and sculpture.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"a-beating-heart"},"startDate":"2023-05-17T18:30:00.000Z","subtitle":"FEMALE PIONEERS OF DIGITAL ART","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4f2a9fbb8355f136196e244df11ea0fe8962c74d-1109x1109-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"A BEATING HEART | SHOWROOM"},{"_createdAt":"2024-02-27T19:03:17Z","_id":"42b2356e-babb-4b89-a5a0-fecb38516ebe","_rev":"Dsvmdo48qp4ou0OJOUpxTi","_type":"exhibition","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T15:37:03Z","endDate":"2024-03-07T17:00:00.000Z","modules":[{"_key":"e4fbf099e75f","_type":"moduleSlider","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-05T09:28:33Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-482954608906","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfswRLz","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:04.108Z","descriptionHtml":"Click HERE to watch the guided tour by Jonas Lund through ON THIS DAY.
\nClick HERE to watch the guided tour by Jonas Lund through ON THIS DAY.
\nHein Gravenhorst (*1937) is a co-founder of generative photography, a genre of photography that aims to generate logically comprehensible aesthetic structures based on defined programs. This genre is related to Max Bense's generative aesthetic, which provides principles for generating specific operations methodically.
\nPresented in collaboration with Photo Edition Berlin.
","disjunctive":true,"gid":"gid://shopify/Collection/533185921290","id":533185921290,"imageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/collections/heingravenhorst_exhibition_dc5675a6-e026-47ee-975f-f51da88abae2.jpg?v=1728205661","isDeleted":false,"rules":[{"_key":"4bd71602-30e2-5951-9113-37c5c0c9fc6f","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"heingravenhorst_exhibition","relation":"EQUALS"},{"_key":"77b1301e-e0ae-5621-90d3-0a8321b70429","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"heingravenhorst_physicals","relation":"EQUALS"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"hein-gravenhorst-generative-photography"},"sortOrder":"MANUAL","title":"HEIN GRAVENHORST | GENERATIVE PHOTOGRAPHY","variants":null}},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"30df3b47bcf1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-10-10T15:14:07Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-533835055370","_rev":"lN7yN3tsl0wCOfkzcYFulx","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-10-10T15:34:05Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-10-10T15:14:07.000Z","descriptionHtml":"NFT DROP: 18 OCTOBER 2024 | 6 PM CET
Hein Gravenhorst begins working on his computer-generated images with one or two base models, which are then developed further in various ways. One approach is through translation, where the base models are expanded horizontally or mirrored. Another method involves rotation, transforming the base models into circular patterns. In some works, he combines both techniques, utilizing both translation and rotation.
These computer-generated images are now being released as NFTs and represent a genuine continuation of his artistic output since the analog masterpieces.
In collaboration with Photo Edition Berlin.
MUD Gallery and EXPANDED.ART present the international group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024 at the gallery in Shanghai, on the occasion of the exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024 and the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT (by Foundation Herbert W. Franke).
\nCurated by Anika Meier, the exhibition showcases 11 artists who are working with AI today, imagining stories and exploring AI's creative potential. IMAGINE TODAY, 2024 embarks on a journey through the digital landscapes of tomorrow, crafted by the visionary minds of today's AI artists.
PARTICIPATING ARTISTS
Niceaunties, Mario Klingemann, William Latham, Crosslucid, Roope Rainisto, Jennifer & Kevin McCoy, Anne Spalter, Bard Ionson, John F Simon, Jr, Phillip Toledano, Sasha Katz, Shi Zheng
20 July – 20 August 2024, MUD Gallery, Shanghai
View the collection on OpenSea. (Coming soon)
CROSSLUCID: DWELLERS BETWEEN THE WATERS. SCENES FROM THE FILM
21 SEPTEMBER - 30 SEPTEMBER 2023
DWELLERS BETWEEN THE WATERS (2023) is a multi-channel AI-driven film conjured as a series of hybrid rituals that mediate the space in between physical presence, trauma, memory, healing, and virtuality.
\nEXPANDED.ART SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
NFT DROP: 1 OCTOBER 2024 | 6 PM CET
SEED THEORY by Chinese-Canadian artist Sougwen Chung is a series seeded from human movement, glacial textures, and the Earth as seen from above.
The themes in SEED THEORY continue the artist's research in alternative constructions of human, machine, and ecology. The work integrates gestures from the artist's Meridian dataset—part of the training data for the next generation of the collaborative drawing system D.O.U.G.
\nThe SEED THEORY series was incubated during the Ignota Books residency, focused on Lynn Margulis and Gaian Systems, and further explored during a research seminar hosted by The Gaia Art Foundation in 2022.
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NEVERENDING STORIES by Boris Eldagsen is a collection of 13 AI-generated videos based on AI-images that Eldagsen generated in weeks of experiments. They were then animated with AI, extended and cut into a loop in a video program. Eldagsen also generated the music as his own version of Doom Jazz.
NEVERENDING STORIES feels like you’ve wandered into a Hammer horror film on the brink of total existential collapse. The visuals pulse between memory and nightmare — absurd spaces and strange figures that come and go like half-forgotten thoughts. It’s as if Tarkovsky’s STALKER got hijacked by Camus. Like a Sisyphean Cycle of coming back to the same place but never quite arriving, the loop stands in for both an escape and a trap.
\nFrom the first flickering image, you’re thrust into a disorienting space that feels more like a mental landscape than a physical one. The human form is present but always distant, always dissolving—like a memory that never fully belonged to you.
\nSOUGWEN CHUNG AND BORIS ELDAGSEN: SEED STORIES. AI IN CONTEXT #1
11 SEPTEMBER – 5 OCTOBER 2024
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
Heinrich Heidersberger's black and white RHYTHMOGRAMS were created between 1953 and 1965 as design elements for a mural in a technical college. He developed the rhythmograms from simpler to increasingly complex, almost deconstructivist forms, some of which were created using photographic techniques such as reversal and solarization. Color was the next logical step. The archive contained colored foils measuring 6 x 6 cm, which Heidersberger assembled into five colored rhythmograms between 1960 and 1970.
\nHeidersberger also received recognition from artistic circles for his topicality. Jean Cocteau, for example, was impressed by the relevance of his work. It was very early on that the Frenchman bought a RHYTHMOGRAM as a birthday present for Picasso.
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\nEXPANDED.ART PIONEER GRAILS: 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITION
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ANDROMEDA (RHYTHMOGRAM)
27-30 JUNE | 6-6 PM CEST
ANDROMEDA by Heinrich Heidersberger is released as part of PIONEER GRAILS on the occasion of the exhibition THE THINKING MACHINE. PRESENTING PIONEERS, 1953-2023 at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin. In collaboration with ELEMENTUM.ART, curated by Anika Meier and Georg Bak.
ABOUT ANDROMEDA (RHYTHMOGRAM)
Heidersberger's black and white RHYTHMOGRAMS were created between 1953 and 1965 as design elements for a mural in a technical college. He developed the rhythmograms from simpler to increasingly complex, almost deconstructivist forms, some of which were created using photographic techniques such as reversal and solarization. Color was the next logical step. The archive contained colored foils measuring 6 x 6 cm, which Heidersberger assembled into five colored rhythmograms between 1960 and 1970.
Finally, in 1973, Heidersberger screen-printed two color RHYTHMOGRAM posters (ANDROMEDA and ENERGY) in black-light active neon colors that were marketed internationally and were particularly successful in London.
Heidersberger also received recognition from artistic circles for his topicality. Jean Cocteau, for example, was impressed by the relevance of his work. It was very early on that the Frenchman bought a RHYTHMOGRAM as a birthday present for Picasso.
\nAs Heidersberger decided to pursue the art of photography in Paris at the end of the 1920s, more by accident and as a result of his insatiable curiosity than anything else, photographers were still known as lensmen, a name that really seemed to fit Heidersberger.
TOP 4 FACTS ABOUT RYTHMOGRAMS
1. Three of Heinrich Heidersberger’s RHYTHMOGRAMS can be found in the Study Collection of the Museum of Modern Art, New York.
2. Jean Cocteau, a poet and one of the most influential figures in early 20th-century art as a whole, was impressed by the relevance of Heidersberger’s work. It was very early on that the Frenchman bought a RHYTHMOGRAM as a birthday present for Picasso.
3. In 1962, Jean Cocteau wrote a letter to Heidersberger.
\n\"Heidersberger’s admirable RHYTHMOGRAMS are proof that chance does not exist for the poets. Or better yet, give it a different name.
\nThe link of man and machine seems to be a sign of our time.
\nLooking at these frozen oscillations, mysterious as the disguise of animals or plants, one can ask if not an enormous cosmic act influences our artist and brings us a music of silence in his work, a silence that is nothing but a sequence of notes that our imperfect ear cannot perceive.
\nI want to compare Heidersberger’s ouevre with the rebellion of an insect or a flower, tired of observing the laws of their kind. It happens that spiders change the structure of their nets under the influence of drugs and threads become dangerous snares.
Let’s admire even if we cannot understand! That’s the only way to escape the darkness of the cartesian philosophy.\"
– Jean Cocteau, 1962
4. In 1957, Heidersberger was awarded the Silver Medal at the Milan Triennial for a RHYTHMOGRAM.
ABOUT THE RHYTHMOGRAMS: THE HISTORY
At the same time as Heidersberger did contract work for well-known architects of the Braunschweig School, who appreciated his use of light and the lens in particular, he also began to experiment with luminography—the recording of a source of light in motion—at the beginning of the 1950s. He was fascinated by the idea of letting light itself become the object.
The invitation in 1955 to create a mural for the newly constructed School of Engineering in Wolfenbüttel was a welcome occasion for Heidersberger to become more involved with luminography. He began to build a device that he could use to record traces of light directly on photographic material. The artist named the pictures he created RHYTHMOGRAMS and continued to pursue his experiments with great enthusiasm. The name he chose was the first indication of the uniqueness of his results.
\nThe rhythmograph, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
Different from the constructive work of his contemporaries, who were following similar ambitions, Heidersberger's light images have a three-dimensional aspect and also include coincidence as a principle in their design. Heidersberger found the inspiration for the multi-dimensional solution in reading a book on PHYSICS IN GRAPHICAL PICTURES. There he discovered the figures of the physicist Jules Antoine Lissajous, and they challenged him to get similar results in photography. From that time on, he called these pictures RHYTHMOGRAMS.
With each structural alteration, the machine became more complex, and its use became more skilled and effortless at the same time. By extinguishing the light for a short period of time, for example, Heidersberger discovered new traces and also began to work on the negatives. As a result of inversion, multiple exposures, and sectioning that led to extensive compositions and solarizations, he created a completely new picture language.
\nHis 'machine', as he liked to call it, was paramount to the synthesis of his artistic and scientific interests and still commands an imposing presence in the Wolfsburg Castle today.
\nIn addition to the personal interests described here, the RHYTHMOGRAMS must also be viewed in their contemporary context. They were very topical at the time of their creation. If we call to mind Applied art—exemplified by wire and wicker furniture—in the decades after the war or the graphics at that time, the parallels are striking. Heidersberger had his finger on the pulse of the age.
From 1956 to 1968, for example, a RHYTHMOGRAM was used as the broadcasting symbol of the Südwestfunk Baden-Baden, a regional German television station. Some say that the old national evening news logo was produced by him, a rumor that has not been substantiated to date. In addition, one of Heidersberger's light images received the silver medal at the 11th Triennale di Milano, a very important international exhibition of applied art and architecture at that time.
Contemporaries perceived the works as an adequate expression of modern living conditions: \"[a rhythmogram] is able to put space-time relationships into a picture chronographically, lending a temporal process to the elements of space and quantity to produce a great metaphor of our newly won physical view of the world, in which space and time merge to form a uniform continuum at the speed of light.\" Such comments as this made by Lufft breathe the spirit of the 20th century and underscore once again the fact that Heidersberger is a representative of the modern arts.
\nABOUT THE PIONEER GRAILS
EXPANDED.ART'S PIONEER GRAILS is a series of 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITIONS presenting paradigmatic artworks from key figures in the history of digital art.
ABOUT THE 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITION
Each open edition is available for 72 hours. The final edition size is determined by the number of primary sales during the 72 hour minting window. After the end of the 72 hours, the NFTs may be collected on the secondary market.
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract: 0x7c5ef33a1a13e5d8da5e990d180055868a719147
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token Standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
The generative art for MA1 \"ABSTRACT ORIGINALS\" was coded by Geoff Davis in 1983 and released on data cassette in 1984 by his Micro Arts Group. The series name, \"ABSTRACT ORIGINALS,\" in quotes references the debate on whether algorithmic computer art is art and the role of human creativity, which still continues today. The title, \"ABSTRACT ORIGINALS,\" was in quotes because they were not individually original but rather generated from original code and were not abstract in the sense of being abstracted from reality; they were code reality.
The series of seven longform generative artworks was distributed by post or directly. In 1985, most of the Micro Arts work was published on the UK's Prestel teletext (like Minitel).
The catalog at the time stated: \"A colorful experience for you and your VDU [visual display unit]. These mobile graphics can be color-coded to fit your décor. The order, timing, and repetition can also be controlled, giving a responsive art display to enhance your next dinner or cocktail party, union meeting, or conference.\"
Davis programmed the seven artworks in MA1 \"ABSTRACT ORIGINALS.\" It had menu controls for color, length, and looping. Davis’ other art releases included conceptual computer art, a SCUM Manifesto animation, slow art (a two-year-long graphic programme), and MA4 Story Generator, which was an \"early precursor of ChatGPT\" (Georg Bak, 2023).
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\nEXPANDED.ART PIONEER GRAILS: 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITION
GEOFF DAVIS: PIANO BAR – RED (1984)
2-5 NOVEMBER 2023 | 6-6 PM CET
PIANO BAR by the British artist Geoff Davis is a piece of generative computer art; it uses randomness in its design. When you watch it, you can get lost in its captivating rhythm and visuals.
The name PIANO BAR might remind you of an old-time player piano. The visuals scroll or move up the screen, building upon one another, similar to how a piano player's notes are read or how printers output information. It is also visually similar to the piano roll used for note editing in music sequencers and digital audio workstations since the 1990s. Sometimes it resembles the designs in Anni Albers' fabric art and recalls the early days of computing, when machines were inspired by weaving looms. It could reflect images of bottles on a conveyor belt in a bar or capsule magazines loading and emptying.
However, all these visual connections, including even the title, were added after the code work was created by Geoff Davis in 1984, when the piece was added to the Micro Arts MA2 Various Unusual Events collection. This collection was a set of computer art exemplars that pushed boundaries and challenged what digital art could be. It was very different from Geoff’s previous generative works that mathematically painted pixels on the screen.
Some other pieces from the MA2 collection ranged from a piece of slow art that would take centuries to finish on modern screens to an animation discussing the infamous SCUM Manifesto and Universal Basic Income.
PIANO BAR connects the past with the present. It's a mix of history, art, and modern technology.
Finally, there's an ambient soundtrack for PIANO BAR by Geoff Davis, who's been involved with various bands and has a rich history in music.
Enjoy watching and listening to PIANO BAR.
Geoff Davis donates 50% of the revenue to the Computer Arts Archive, a non-profit company attached to the Computer Arts Society (CAS). The Archive has an important historical and educational role, with a large collection of seminal artworks. CAS was founded in 1968 following the Cybernetic Serendipity exhibition at the ICA in London, curated by Jasia Reichardt. CAS promotes computer art across the UK and beyond.
ABOUT THE PIONEER GRAILS
EXPANDED.ART'S PIONEER GRAILS is a series of 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITIONS presenting paradigmatic artworks from key figures in the history of digital art.
ABOUT THE 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITION
Each open edition is available for 72 hours. The final edition size is determined by the number of primary sales during the 72 hour minting window. After the end of the 72 hours, the NFTs may be collected on the secondary market.
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract address: 0xfE9e28deB844c8b43770A865C6100c40e80743aA
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
MARK SABB: PRESS ESCAPE
22–25 MAY 2024
PRESS ESCAPE by Mark Sabb is a series of 52 digital artworks created using AI and Python. The source images derive from screenshots of video games personally developed by Sabb, which are exclusively accessible at immersive installations curated and showcased by FeltZine or encountered by the developer himself, thereby remaining largely inaccessible to the general public.
In PRESS ESCAPE, Sabb explores themes inherent in the source material, delving into concepts of time and mortality, addiction, and the inexorable influence of capitalism.
EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
View the collection on OpenSea.
\nVOICES OF WEB3 is an archive of voices and statements summarising the year 2023 in digital art and culture. It is a document in time on the blockchain, bringing together some of the leading voices shaping Web3 and the history of digital art: artists, curators, and collectors.
\nTHE VOICE GEMS
The statements have been recorded in the form of spoken word, poems, and songs by the contributors and are frozen in time as VOICE GEMS on the blockchain. The VOICE GEMS were created by Harry Yeff (Reeps100) and Trung Bao, who have developed a voice-centred generative system utilizing data found in a human voice to synthesise the form and colour of the artwork.
Every voice is unique, and with that comes unique fingerprint-like data. Features like pitch, resonance, harmonics, and pace sculpt particle data points in a simulated digital space.
\nTRANSCRIPT
\"Web3 is an evolving stage that is reshaping our understanding of art in profound ways. Just as Modernism ushered in a shift from representation to abstraction, Web3 is shifting art from the physical to the digital, from the centralized to the decentralized.
However, the decentralized ethos of Web3 comes with its own set of challenges. Security vulnerabilities, along with the market's reliance on volatile cryptocurrencies, create an unstable foundation that could end up undermining its claims to authenticity and longevity.
\nThe marketplace for art bought and sold as NFTs boomed in 2021 but is mostly sluggish today. Although a few standout sales continue to make the news, most artist’s markets remain much lower and slower than last year.
While the economics remain unknown, Web3 has undoubtedly brought new approaches to artmaking. Much as the Renaissance redefined art through perspective, so too could Web3 redefine it through decentralization. The road is filled with challenges, but the potential for an innovative, inclusive, and egalitarian Web3 art community still fills me with hope and excitement for the future.\"
– Anne Spalter
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract address: 0xA8E5Ec62bfec3906817cBb56728523e65E2e681d
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
View on OpenSea.
NICEAUNTIES: AUNTIEDOTE
23 APRIL – 11 MAY 2024
Born in the 1980s, during the nation-building years of Singapore, the artist behind Niceaunties experienced a childhood shaped by the influential women in their family. From infancy to the age of nine, they lived with grandparents, aunties, and uncles while their parents worked. This upbringing was heavily influenced by the women of the household, as cultural norms dictated their primary role in childcare. Their early life was marked by the presence of remarkable women, including a great-grandmother who had experienced bound feet, a grandmother who transitioned from a life dedicated to kitchen duties to two decades of bedridden existence, and a sociable mother, along with eleven aunties. These women, embodying a spectrum of suppressed talents, passions, and dreams, were a mix of strange, funny, mean, and kind personalities, fueling the narrative of Niceaunties.
The exhibition AUNTIEDOTE builds on the AUNTIEVERSE series, spotlighting auntie culture's unique take on beauty and fashion. The videos offer a glimpse into the day-to-day life within the AUNTIEVERSE, highlighting the endearing and quirky behaviors that define auntie culture. From their distinctive approach to fashion to their unconventional beauty hacks, these narratives celebrate the individuality and influence of aunties. The accompanying prints encapsulate these themes, providing a static reflection of the dynamic world of aunties.
AUNTIEDOTE is an invitation to explore and appreciate the rich tapestry of auntie culture, with all its charm and eccentricity, and its impact on the broader spheres of beauty and fashion.
In collaboration with Fellowship.
\nEXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
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On view will be new surreal videos from the AUNTIEVERSE created by the artist with AI, showing a world where every suppressed being could exist freely and without judgement."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d6b38cf4a66a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08c0113847db0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Born in the 1980s, during the nation-building years of Singapore, the artist behind Niceaunties experienced a childhood shaped by the influential women in their family. From infancy to the age of nine, they lived with grandparents, aunties, and uncles while their parents worked. This upbringing was heavily influenced by the women of the household, as cultural norms dictated their primary role in childcare. Their early life was marked by the presence of remarkable women, including a great-grandmother who had experienced bound feet, a grandmother who transitioned from a life dedicated to kitchen duties to two decades of bedridden existence, and a sociable mother, along with eleven aunties. These women, embodying a spectrum of suppressed talents, passions, and dreams, were a mix of strange, funny, mean, and kind personalities, fueling the narrative of Niceaunties."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9ec2c738247e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"350603e9b3790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the broader societal context, a distinct 'auntie culture' emerged in the region, forming a cultural cloud that persists today. The term \"auntie\" in this context refers to an older woman, often characterized by traits of resourcefulness, adherence to rules, traditionalism, and a tendency to be opinionated. Stemming perhaps from the austerity of a pioneering nation, this 'survival mechanism' often paints 'the auntie' in a less than flattering light. However, the artist recognizes the inherent unfairness in this perception, seeing the auntie as a figure doing her best in familiar ways, sometimes offering well-intentioned, albeit unsolicited, advice."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"683bf2176b82","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"84f89f6c6c9b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Niceaunties was conceived as a response to these experiences. They represent the collective subconscious of all aunties, celebrating self-love, risk-taking, fun, and freedom through self-expression. It provides a unique perspective on endearing, absurd, and sometimes negative behaviors. It serves as a commentary on societal norms imposed on women and the efforts women make to conform to these expectations. Niceaunties is a gentle yet powerful rebellion against these constraints.\n\nThe exhibition AUNTIEDOTE builds on the AUNTIEVERSE series, spotlighting auntie culture's unique take on beauty and fashion. The videos offer a glimpse into the day-to-day life within the AUNTIEVERSE, highlighting the endearing and quirky behaviors that define auntie culture. From their distinctive approach to fashion to their unconventional beauty hacks, these narratives celebrate the individuality and influence of aunties. The accompanying prints encapsulate these themes, providing a static reflection of the dynamic world of aunties. AUNTIEDOTE is an invitation to explore and appreciate the rich tapestry of auntie culture, with all its charm and eccentricity, and its impact on the broader spheres of beauty and fashion."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cbfa4d53e5c8","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"a1b32790ad2c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80fdca2af480","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NICEAUNTIES: AUNTIEDOTE"},{"_key":"9057c001b823","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n23 APRIL – 11 MAY 2024 \nOPENING RECEPTION: 23 APRIL | 6-9 PM CET\nThe artist will be present. \n"},{"_key":"4050b615198b","_type":"span","marks":["67a46d9f2f79"],"text":"In collaboration with Fellowship."},{"_key":"8a1b4a70579a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"67a46d9f2f79","_type":"link","url":"https://daily.xyz/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2722e0e9f7a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"558b917f12ce","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM"},{"_key":"1e0942037d52","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nFriedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin\nMonday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"01730a33bc9b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntique Institute, 2024. 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On view will be new surreal works from the AUNTIEVERSE created by the artist with AI spotlighting auntie culture's unique take on beauty and fashion. \n","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-693edf7edac91225a8249a46986949a6192880da-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"niceaunties-auntiedote"},"startDate":"2024-04-23T16:00:00.000Z","store":null,"subtitle":"AUNTIEDOTE ","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4b2c15ac136bb06840c2622b1bee92e2143c50-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"NICEAUNTIES | SHOWROOM"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"f346f5558db9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-06-04T16:28:46Z","_id":"679b0ee8-e7de-4a0d-9944-45c664ec22b2","_rev":"3iaqww2vxcB9HrQm3GfZLC","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-06-15T19:23:25Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"b23986964aa3","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"150b5e6fac5f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f329dfbc4d3f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Alejandro Cartagena is a renowned photographer known for his captivating series CARPOOLERS and his pioneering role as the co-founder of Fellowship, a platform that champions historical and contemporary artists at the forefront of photography, generative art, AI, and video. With a unique blend of expertise in photography and AI, Alejandro Cartagena has carved a distinctive path in the NFT space through his dedication and innovative approach. By seamlessly merging traditional photography with cutting-edge technologies, Cartagena's work with Fellowship showcases the transformative power of AI in the realm of art, pushing boundaries and opening up new creative possibilities. Fellowship's exploration of the intersection between artificial intelligence and art offers a glimpse into the future of artistic expression in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"04dd33d31218","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b5c1b86a37b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In a captivating dialogue with Anika Meier, Alejandro Cartagena delves into the history of photography and the term post-photography. Their conversation extends to the dynamic interplay between art and technology, exploring the innovative realms of CARPOOLERS and Fellowship. As the discussion unfolds, they also venture into the boundless possibilities that lie ahead at the intersection of art and AI, painting a vivid picture of the future landscape of artistic expression in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3a61f6407bcc","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89be61f1f17a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"778f7575ac410","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Alejandro, when did you first pick up a camera?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"746be7ab53cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80bfcb30af2d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Alejandro Cartagena: "},{"_key":"604ba68cd257","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My first time picking up a camera was back in the Dominican Republic. I was in a bird-watching club, and we took pictures and developed the film at school."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8cfaf0906634","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b53169ae49760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The first time I used the camera as a tool to create art was in 2004. I had quit my job in the service industry and delved deep into the rabbit hole of contemporary photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"09f35dd56263","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Dalos Dov, For Friends #5 – Alejandro, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1c17fc1a7be0c06e695887401a7ba1abc93e6bcb-1200x554-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1c17fc1a7be0c06e695887401a7ba1abc93e6bcb-1200x554-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"70418ff01e74","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"86c9430113f0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1492e65d511e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you remember when you learned about photography as an artistic medium?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"92cb3c1d3c41","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ca3b45f812a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: It was in 2004, after a workshop called ANALYZING IMAGES, that I learned about photography as an artistic medium. For the first time, I was told that I could make photographs (stage them and/or make all sorts of formal decisions) and create a story or develop an idea with them. I had always associated the idea of nostalgia with photography—something you use to remember the past. This new way of thinking about photographic images shook me completely. I left everything to pursue it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f81435f36d0c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b4dd726852d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4076a220067b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The philosopher Roland Barthes was pleased that a moment from the past was present when he held a photo in his hands or leafed through a book. Today, the message on the bright screen is simply: \"It is just so.\" (Wolfgang Ullrich) \n\nThrough social media and messenger apps, photography has transformed from a medium of documentation and memory into a medium of communication. What the philosopher Roland Barthes calls \"punctum,\" the captivating and irritating moment of a photograph, is usually sought in vain. How do you perceive this change in the medium of photography as a photographer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"de8003e7e9a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"baf725dc3c6c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: "},{"_key":"06988844729a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photography changed everything. It silently inscribes itself into everything we see and do. This slow indoctrination into seeing the world photographically is what you call a transformation into a language, because in reality, photography is a \"wild\" medium like all other art forms, with its meaning being fixed by the context rather than from the image itself."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4fe740ab9356","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be75d612f3bf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"What Roland Barthes proposed, I would argue, is that photography has an intrinsic mechanism to seduce viewers via nostalgia. Nostalgia is a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations. That image he saw that formed his entire theory means absolutely nothing to the next viewer, and so what he described as \"punctum\" was a personal connection via nostalgia to an image."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"41e0aeee5fcc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ffaf0412bb850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photography is a flawed language, but when placed on social media, it functions as a trigger for the ideas and meanings that these sharing systems have built around them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e3e6121cf532","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Alex Webb, Nogales, Mexico, 1995.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abda8fc88eb1aadb963f8fcc9c23e535014be119-1536x1023-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abda8fc88eb1aadb963f8fcc9c23e535014be119-1536x1023-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"62269955c364","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bfa28edccd44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8cab5ead3b20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who are the photographers you look up to?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"685888115aa7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"270aa4874a990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I think of the history of photography as what most inspires me. The flaws it has (many white, western men created it, and the lack of other voices) and the stories that are missing. I see it as a place to find loopholes in what else can be addressed via this medium. What has not been looked at, or what other ways can we think of one or another subject matter? I like to think of the different moments the medium has undergone where it has questioned its intrinsic values. The photographers that experiment with those ideas are very inspiring."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a93d96ed8286","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c7b009c4a4c1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"553131d232f70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Photography has radically changed over the past decade due to social media, smartphones, and now AI. The term post-photography is very present in relation to AI. How do you define post-photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"96ec69cd8baa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"29598816c4280","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: For me, the shift in photography began in the 1980s with the Pictures Generation. Artists viewed and utilized photography not merely as a chronicle of time, but as a visual tool that had generated an abundance of visual material, rendering the creation of new images unnecessary. Photographs could be appropriated and recontextualized, and through these simple acts, the meanings of the images were altered. This is the point at which I would identify a potential moment of contemplation regarding the rise of post-photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"08385e34cb6d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"87835436f15e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The photographic image began to show massive cracks in its supposed duty of recording reality. The advent of digital photography exposed the vulnerability of a photograph to adhere to its prescribed function: a record of real life. Suddenly, every photographic image was plagued with doubt. The era of \"is that photoshopped\" began, and photography shifted. These two moments prompted contemplation of the next stage for photography now that it was constantly being challenged and consequently relieved of its duty as a document. The signs had been present since the invention of the medium that this image machine could simply be a tool of subjective artistic representation, but it took almost 150 years for artists to dismantle the role that society and art had assigned to the medium. With the advent of AI, photography will possibly undergo a moment of crisis regarding its relevance as a medium in artistic use. I believe that this crisis is a valuable one to experience."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1c9ef703d410","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Joel Meyerowitz, Sequels #6, New York City, USA, 1966.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0718f18459b551ca2ef7dfff9b59677e5b1d0b16-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0718f18459b551ca2ef7dfff9b59677e5b1d0b16-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"e4bdd7d6437a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8b5a0350375b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4edcd0a16b30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look at images created with AI these days, is the history of photography still a point of reference for artists?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"60784aa48c6c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eeb986ddf8670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"50dbd67a7d5e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5fe754b4c9790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"790979bdd446","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"41796b052aa50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: For some artists, I assume that the history of photography is still a point of reference. AI images are becoming more diverse in how they are created. One excellent example of a cross-pollination of mediums is the "},{"_key":"10717e471125","_type":"span","marks":["21f7bfec0716"],"text":"BLIND CAMERA project by Diego Trujillo"},{"_key":"21d847fca505","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"21f7bfec0716","_type":"link","href":"https://opensea.io/collection/post-photographic-perspectives-taming-the-machine"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"94c8d36eca24","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"382bcbcd5dbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Diego created his own AI model, trained on videos of Mexico City, and then developed a sound camera that would interpret sounds and convert these auditory moments into images based on the model trained on the city's videos."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2692464a4cbc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ddacd0574fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The act of creating AI images on the streets creates a very intriguing situation for this emerging medium. Field AI creation is evolving the concept of street photography to capture a slice of life. Is what Diego did then the same thing? Even though it involves AI, the city influences what the AI model creates. I appreciate the challenges that this project introduces to the conversation. What exactly has he invented?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"14593a94d0fc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Diego Trujillo, Blind Camera #14, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9625d779fa1b545d35e628a14752c41718c02bf2-3000x1714-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9625d779fa1b545d35e628a14752c41718c02bf2-3000x1714-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"b950c8eeb68b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cdec4d64c14d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8807864ca9820","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What do you recommend to artists and collectors who would like to start learning about the history of photography? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d7d2bbbeeca8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f0a1b8921a840","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: The book THE PHOTOGRAPH AS CONTEMPORARY ART by Charlotte Cotton is a fantastic guide to understanding how photography functions as an artistic medium. It breaks down the ways in which different generations of artists have utilized the medium. This would be the perfect place to develop a love for this medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88de03508f6a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d84095308abb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f740ce9ecfc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are an expert in photography and its history, and you’re internationally known as a photographer for your series CARPOOLERS. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3086eb8046b7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"61470d30c3750","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: CARPOOLERS is part of a larger body of work about homeownership in Mexico. For thirteen years, I worked on projects that explored how this cultural phenomenon had been imported into our Mexican culture and how that tropicalization created a series of unintended consequences. Issues with transportation and ecological degradation were two of the things that immediately showed up in many of the major cities in the country. The rapid development of these new housing complexes being promoted by the federal and local governments came at high costs for their new buyers. With very little planning, many of these new homeowners found themselves stuck with high transportation costs and had to inevitably rely on illegal transportation from and to the newly built suburbs they now lived in. My images show them in a strange private and public moment on the way to work. These scenes became more common because of the developments that were happening."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d23b5c401a33","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Alejandro Cartagena, Carpooler #10, 2011.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-475ca5eadd970ea3f5fb937bd636b52876afa1c9-1230x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-475ca5eadd970ea3f5fb937bd636b52876afa1c9-1230x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9492b48a4d1c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aa64e4d5dfd8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"478baad2da110","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is more important: creating an iconic image or a body of work that stands the test of time? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f1c4ae47385d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07ddc3435afc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I am obsessed with the history of photography, and so I am constantly looking for “loopholes” in what has already been photographed. Thinking of CARPOOLERS, what you see is a project that not only makes sense to create based on the points I made above, but that also speaks to the many projects that came before about labor, car culture, and urban development. These images reference these subject matters but introduce a conversation with those other projects. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3289dc7ef95","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"76e5cd8d6522","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You see urban development in CARPOOLERS, but not by taking pictures of the city, but by visualizing one of its consequences. We see ideas of labor, but instead of creating the now cliché representation of hard work, these in-between moments of the workers have the strength to still make us think of the intensity of their jobs without having to represent that literally. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"deef8ee03c70","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c731ebd259f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Finally, you see a reference to the preference for individual transportation systems like the car and the car culture that has been exported from our northern neighbor, the USA, into our country. Instead of favoring public transportation, private cars are championed as a sign of social well-being and as a status symbol. This process of connecting with other projects is something I think of a lot. Will it always make for good projects? Maybe not, but it helps me have a little bit of structure."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6badfc1e4759","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7b4fd151ac87","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7aa1b5d98c8c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When it comes to the history of photography where do you see AI?\n\n\"It’s bullshit, because AI is not photography. Generated images are hallucinations. How can you mix that up? Of course, there is no absolute truth. But using AI is destroying it completely. The mistake that many people make is that they see AI-generated images as a logical evolution from photography.\" This is a quote from Boris Eldagsen, taken from a recent interview with the Art Newspaper. German artist Eldagsen's artwork, PSEUDOMNESIA: THE ELECTRICIAN, won the creative open category at the Sony World Photography Award in 2023. He refused the prize because he used an artificial intelligence image generator to create his submission."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fb84617f48b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e246aaa2dff0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: There is so much to unpack there. I’d say that I do see AI as a sister tool to photography. Midjourney, stable diffusion, etc. are not the only ways artists are creating AI images. Some use their own photographs, their own videos, and their own sounds to create new AI work. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae87d7e7d066","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86083a491c23","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"If you train a model only based on your photographs, is it not related to your photographic practice? When thinking of collage, do the photographs used in it stop being photographs because we call them collage? Photography is not only a medium but also a way of seeing the world. 200 years of being in the photographic era have made us see the world in a photographic way. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"606ac6b3ef9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1dfe6164d99","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You can also create photographic hallucinations with AI. They are not photographs, but they work like photographs. Does that not make them photographic?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"49fea3579bdc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, Pseudomnesia: The Electrician, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1b431a1d8e4c9a1de3bfca5f9031ee857309fe06-703x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1b431a1d8e4c9a1de3bfca5f9031ee857309fe06-703x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"0b867f462dea","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"41bb0efcc63b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adf95f1082140","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Let's ask Boris Eldagsen these questions on Twitter when we publish this conversation. He will be part of our upcoming exhibition titled THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024, that we will present in Berlin on the occasion of the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT by the Foundation Herbert W. Franke. \n\nHow did you get from creating art yourself to co-founding Fellowship?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5661b3b16f2e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"35136427e4060","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I’ve always had a drive to support creators. I had a photography school for almost 10 years; I taught at the university; and I have a publishing house called Los Sumergidos to publish Latino artists. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1e412c648bc0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3980469f0f0f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I started my artistic career, I was given spiritual and conceptual support. I learned that art is also about giving and supporting each other. Fellowship is an extension of that belief. I had always wanted to build a gallery or a place to support artists and their careers, but it always seemed impossible. I did a ton of mentoring for years, but I still felt I could do more. Fellowship has granted me the opportunity to do all the things I wanted to do for other artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8732b157f949","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e21ad27c63bb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be9cdb9a778e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were your goals in the beginning with Fellowship? Have your goals changed over the years when interest from collectors changed from photography to AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"16e028b1fc0d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2dcabcfa851a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Fellowship started as a photography NFT collection. Studio137 and I had been talking about the opportunity to build a once-in-a-lifetime collection that would survey the projects that had shaped the medium. We focused on 20th and 21st century photography and built what we think is one of the most comprehensive and curated NFT collections of photography. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d7096a9740a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5048a2de379","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Our focus expanded when the artists we were collecting asked if we’d help find more collectors for their works. It was an organic path to start offering the work via a platform, though it has always been strange to call us that because we offer curatorial services, mentorship, tech support, and career-building opportunities. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2c4e0d1a4a39","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d0d8d5324c34","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We came to this because we were passionate about supporting artists and the excitement of collecting works of art, but now we help artists build projects and help them find the best ways to offer them to collectors. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af554b975595","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb6481422d8a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Mixed into all that, the whole Fellowship team is obsessive and excited about doing new things that push our understanding of art. We work with artists that touch our hearts and minds. It is a bit romantic, but we are all here because we love art and love to build cool stuff."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d09ba350e6f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Laurie Simmons, In and around the House II #25, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e6b6f312303e83b05b3069ee255f9323c2a093cc-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e6b6f312303e83b05b3069ee255f9323c2a093cc-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"aa5b8fd56e23","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6ccaf1a08266","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dfd759b2425f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When it comes to photography and NFTs, to be honest, I have been critical from the very beginning in regards to well-known photographers releasing their work again as NFTs. These works have already been sold in the form of prints, very likely in editions and in various sizes. What are your thoughts?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"54424e787e46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ba2433c80e570","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I see no issue. NFTs are a new distribution method for photography. Let’s take it a bit further. Photography was one of the first mediums ever to be digitized. Photography was one of the first mediums on the internet. It’s digital heritage has been there for a long time. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6e41f6425637","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"718ac79c8cb2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The NFT technology was not there for that digitization of the medium, and so no one had considered offering digital editions for the medium. I think there is an issue with asking photographers not to print books after they have sold their work as prints. Photography’s nature permits it to have different outputs. If the artists say that the NFT is a digital original of their work, who can say that that is wrong? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f24370627742","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8278c3dd226e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Let’s go further. If they want to sell them as key chains, as t-shirts, or as disposable vinyl prints, who has the authority to say any of these outputs are wrong and should not be done? The artist has the ultimate say as to how they sell their art and what to call their art. And if there are collectors interested in those digital objects or weird physical gadgets, well, that's great. No one is holding a gun up to their heads to buy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"20f64cd4e8cf","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"34f119099244","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06be744984f00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did well-known photographers respond when you reached out to them about releasing AI with Fellowship?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"25c51dc8e18c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7f25868ba5590","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Some of them have also been exploring AI, to our surprise. But most of the conversations are about how these tools create images. There is a natural curiosity in the photographers I talk to. I haven’t had any pushback because we are here as curious participants, trying to understand what this is. When you come at it this way, the conversations tend to be uplifting but also challenging."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"baa77d4e52a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Charlie Engman, Funhouse Mirror #025, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-73c56e9971c0d57596e6f2e9d838243ec8601267-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-73c56e9971c0d57596e6f2e9d838243ec8601267-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"913ac7e65237","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d09bea278a7b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"452d758dc81e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there a difference between a good photograph and good AI art?\n\nKenny Schachter, the art critic and artist, spoke about art and technology when I met him with my students from the University of Applied Arts in Vienna at your pop-up gallery that was part of the first edition of the Digital Art Mile. He said"},{"_key":"149e1943ad97","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":","},{"_key":"6aeaf15e4f0e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" \"Good art has to last.\" And, \"Good art is in no way subjective.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b24ab3754565","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0c1ebd1c70250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: No, either they work or they don’t. I’d also not say good or bad; maybe it's best to call it relevant or not relevant. Relevant because: do we want to spend time on that image when there is a flood of images out there to consider? I don’t look at art to see if it is good or bad. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c55d90d42d7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d13e292c4b92","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photography has a known grammar and lineage that can help discern if the image is relevant or not. As for relevant AI art, the grammar and traits of what make a piece important to consider are in development. So you can’t judge AI and photography the same way. They are different mediums with only similar aesthetics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"312b220d8486","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3e0b30f4902b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4975e59526dd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I think the question if art is good or bad is valid. And the main criteria is relevance in regards to the past, present, and future of the medium. There is a history and this history will always have a next chapter. What will this next chapter be about? Writing this chapter is the job of the artists of their time. \n\nNot only AI art but the NFT space itself changes at rapid speed. The interest shifted from photography and generative art to AI. Why did people lose interest in photography NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"055c8d086d95","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08c7b7a664b90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: There are many answers to that! Photography never had its moment in NFTs. It is one of the most digital and technologically native artistic tools, so for us, it is still perfectly suited for NFTs. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3b296c4a1049","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4805ceed7315","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When photography was pushing for a spot in NFTs, the big conversation was around generative art. AI had been lurking too. But all three mediums needed more time to mature. But in this heavily financialized space, it was not easy to talk about art. The conversation around provenance, chain, and collector-controlled outputs seemed to hover over everything, and that is not something that allows for art to flourish. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d7f5ff13079b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"14e455ce25ad","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So now we are at the crossroads of a dwindling demand for generative art and photography, and we could also argue for AI, not because of the art but because people got tired and expectations got chattered. That’s why building a project based more on the art, even when it is difficult to build a market, is very much needed for longevity and self-sustainability. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e58bd5bb036c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"099be7aa579b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I do understand the importance of the 2021 push in NFTs. We couldn’t have advanced in certain things if it weren’t for all the things that happened then. But it is a different moment with new opportunities; even for photography, it is just going to take more time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4f54f475726b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Roope Rainisto, Auto Dream No. 3 from Reworld, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4728ccfc8b082ed74335e785623daed09a77acbc-1536x1152-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4728ccfc8b082ed74335e785623daed09a77acbc-1536x1152-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"288b3a01a144","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5beb535c438b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38254ebcc6e20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Fellowship keeps pushing the boundaries. In the autumn of 2023, you launched "},{"_key":"8b99ef6064b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong","ce29efcde615"],"text":"Daily"},{"_key":"3c1af9d9155c","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":". Why did you set up a new platform for AI?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"ce29efcde615","_type":"link","href":"https://daily.xyz/"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"49c9e1094dbb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8f98e52bed70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: In the summer of 2023, we came across several artists that we felt were doing some amazing AI video art. We included them in our Post-Photographic Perspectives program, Part II, and they received a warm welcome from the community of artists and collectors. We did some research and were amazed that there wasn’t a comprehensive way to see how AI video had been evolving. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"847447808192","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da2894e5a49f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AI still images were getting better and better, so we made a leap of faith decision and thought that it would be an interesting project to build a curatorial survey of AI video before it became as perfect as what was happening in AI still images. That was the start of Daily. Soon, we found dozens of artists who were experimenting with these tools. Niceaunties, Mind Wank, Olga Federova, Milo Poelman, and many more were doing crazy cool stuff around July and August 2023. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8443531dabdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"81453c5cc8a2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There was a moment that we saw a critical mass forming around these video tools, and it became inevitable to not jump into building the program. Since I now spend more time curating for Daily than doing my own work, I try to work with artists that challenge my understanding of art. I want to have fun and, if possible, help artists build their careers, and Daily offers both right now."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cde900e7836a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Hair Spray from Auntiedote, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9667b0b7405123dd0e5aaf86fbaaa58d8deb0c2f-1920x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9667b0b7405123dd0e5aaf86fbaaa58d8deb0c2f-1920x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-520696070410","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"962b8e0559e1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bd08064dfc43","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cb419e169b0a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How would you sum up the past nearly twelve months on Daily? What are your observations regarding technology and the focus of artists who are experimenting with these evolving technologies?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8a0694a8060b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38efa71e56960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: There are two aspects I would like to point out. First, my experience working with artists on video projects has been challenging and has pushed me to develop a whole new set of tools in order to communicate effectively in the language in which these artworks operate. This has been advantageous, as I bring a fresh perspective to the videos that immersion in the medium alone might not provide. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"47fc813e2dbd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ebef6a78f54","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This has also shed light on the second aspect of the program, which is that everyone is primarily asking questions about what this medium is capable of, what it can communicate, and the messages it conveys. I could say that I see four main areas in which most artists experiment: a) experimentation with the tools, involving technical complexity and pushing the boundaries of what the tools can achieve; b) aesthetic explorations, focusing on form and visual appeal; c) narrative and storytelling, with a strong emphasis on content and various storytelling techniques; and d) critique of the tools and medium, where some artists address issues with the technology and may incorporate elements from the other areas to convey their ideas. There are other ways to categorize what has been happening on Daily. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a375a205af55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a75ba6ec58e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ultimately, our intention has been to collaborate with as many artists as possible to help us create a smart contract that will serve as a comprehensive survey of AI-Video during its formative years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"72a2cfd05e4b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c7fda0fc8e46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ee579c883e010","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What artists are always curious to hear: How do you select artists? What are your criteria?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dea9e9ebbd79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8bf751c1b7b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: "},{"_key":"9f918bf2c539","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I look for things that wow me initially. Then, I delve deeper to see if there is consistency in the various pieces they produce and, if possible, an evolution in their practice. If that checks out, I present the work to the rest of the curatorial team. If there is a connection with the work, we invite the artists to submit a proposal or directly invite them to participate."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3966d72ac5ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"44e23e0427bb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We review a lot of work, and due to our small team, we can only support the work we believe in and can stand behind, ideally on a medium- to long-term basis."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"00fb1317189d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3d58eba3454f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8dffee1c90e20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is the following of an artist on Twitter or Instagram a metric for success?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"03c20fdd7446","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc4da0f1a7e00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Never! I don’t think about or check the following of an artist on Twitter. If the art is good, it should speak for itself and not be good because there is someone with a loudspeaker making noise 24/7."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d84ebd4667ae","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Alice Gordon, Create a Harmonious Workplace from Cognitive Behaviour, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3031f3d8af1a4c42f6b45faa4ad9053705d649f6-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3031f3d8af1a4c42f6b45faa4ad9053705d649f6-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"5e26670fb346","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ff86dc53b7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af19218267800","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What comes to mind when I hear and think about the word \"daily\" is the essay "},{"_key":"f09ee5007f21","_type":"span","marks":["strong","40ab239c281b"],"text":"AETHLETIC AESTHETICS"},{"_key":"1011ba98a507","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" by Brad Troemel. "}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"40ab239c281b","_type":"link","href":"https://thenewinquiry.com/athletic-aesthetics/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b90860cbdf8c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"91d039aa54d8","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"\"The artist’s aura has been leveled and spread across dozens of daily opportunities to comment, like, and reblog.\" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2af77080c51e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ea621076d17","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Or, on the topic of an iconic image vs. a flow of images: \"The idea of memorizing art-history slides to demonstrate a mastery of the canon now seems like a quaint reminder of a time when individual works somehow meant more than the always fluid relationships between them. Audiences no longer have the luxury of imagining that there is a static regime of aesthetic stability dictating quality and meaning. Passive viewers, who consume at the same pace as those they follow produce, and context hunters, who compress that process in time, end up with the same hermeneutic, finding meaning in the lines drawn from one bit of information to the next.\" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c48476859afa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db87dff49b9b","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Troemel wrote this essay in 2013. What have NFTs changed when it comes to producing, publishing, and selling art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2f1318a4864c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6df8f7e157850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: This is a fascinating concept, and I think we are in the middle of that zeitgeist. It spawned from influencer culture and has plagued our world. NFTs are a consequence of this in some way. Value was being assigned to virality, and monetization slowly became professionalized. But that was a very commercial endeavor. The creation was content, not art images, to reflect on and ponder. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0ba7cd8c4745","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1c03e9584e6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NFTs have an influencer culture vibe nonetheless, even if we call everything art. It is about making noise and grabbing attention. Art will always struggle to be seen because it is not as easily digestible and packaged as content is. I still think that NFTs are, even with all their defects, one of the most exciting distribution methods available today. We just need to make more noise, like the influencers, I guess. There is no simple formula."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b6ba6cc3e323","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0114ce5ced3c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"375187a31cc10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is it more important than ever for artists to also learn about the business side when they study art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"92d5e1f3a519","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a2ced97bebc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I’ve lately seen many comments on this in the traditional art space. I can only talk from experience, and for me, I didn’t think of the business side until there was a business side to think about. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6df225a6b518","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0a1d5aefb3f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That is, for the first six years, I had very few sales and no gallery representation, and I was fully dedicated to experimenting and building projects that fulfilled my artistic ambitions. That dedication and obsession led to the development of strong work that then led galleries, publishers, and curators to be interested in my work. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3fb887f5928c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec3a17f1182c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Art is a trust-based practice. To be a professional artist is to be honest and trustworthy. Do what you say you are going to do; be fair with collectors and institutions that support you, and that should be enough to get you going."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a15a0db8fa41","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3f9e30a9da6b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb483543f3df0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your perspective on the relationship between a high price and the cultural significance of an artwork? In the realm of NFTs, a high price often signifies a collection or piece being labeled as \"grail.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"39fd6f03860d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"66013b84e1e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: In the NFT space, I feel that a high price and the cultural significance of an artwork are not really correlated, even though that is what we expect. High prices tend to respond to market sentiments and other things right now. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b63c61e7793e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"960102843c6d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"How many of the works in the NFT space will actually be studied as works of art? As images that somewhat transformed the way we think of the world, life, and culture, or as aesthetic icons that show a before and after of the way images are made? Maybe it is that it is still too nascent, but most highly valued NFTs have a long way to go in terms of building cultural and artistic value. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5a047b8bdcdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b6bb9780582","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My answer is also based on what I have seen command the highest prices in the traditional art space: artworks that mark a decisive change in how we thought of art, or artworks created by artists that contributed to change and transformation in art via the art and the ideas that they pushed. Usually, culture and understanding of the work come first. Then there are the giant price tags, with some exceptions, of course."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e16574d3c0b5","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Elman Mansimov. alignDRAW, 2015, minted 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"da38349f58fa","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"228eda50d3fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e438c447ac90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your advice for artists who start working with AI and would like to release NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1f52d364c0ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec95c20f2df30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Pace and diversify your practice. Think of NFTs as part of your practice and not your only way to distribute your art. Do prints, books, teach, and have a regular job. Find multiple revenue streams in order to have the liberty to do whatever you want with your art. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2eff2061b72a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed6dcf59abd5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Whether you sell or not, it won't break you. You can experiment more and take risks that, depending on your art for income, won’t allow you to. Right now, the NFT space is undergoing a slow but steady transformation in quality. The better the art that is offered, the more confidence collectors have in collecting. If you are an emerging artist, this is a great opportunity to push your art to the next level. Competition is strong but very healthy. It is one of the most exciting moments I’ve seen in terms of art in the NFT space."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dd5154e5af9c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bd75127a77e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f943db247af3","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for taking the time to share your thoughts and ideas with us!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"56b97e4e183b","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"44713901521e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-520696070410","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"5bb9442ade2d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"7133504754f9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"11ba725e-1498-4e1a-abdd-947899246c1b","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"4cf8e60b48d0","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"679b0ee8-e7de-4a0d-9944-45c664ec22b2","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"4d55a3e3de8d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"14ddf70a5978","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"753eee28-d78d-4e8c-91ce-8f7c5489cf3f","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-06-14T16:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Alejandro Cartagena is a renowned photographer known for his captivating series CARPOOLERS and his pioneering role as the co-founder of Fellowship, a platform that champions historical and contemporary artists at the forefront of photography, generative art, AI, and video. ","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"interview-alejandro-cartagena"},"store":null,"subtitle":"PHOTOGRAPHY AND AI ON THE BLOCKCHAIN","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"ALEJANDRO CARTAGENA: WHAT AI IS CAPABLE OF"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"4ef5c0b7d00b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-07-30T08:26:58Z","_id":"db8586e5-1c0c-48ca-b24d-f8d0dba0eb4c","_rev":"9DYmDvRwL60MBjSrcle5dv","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-08-16T22:56:00Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c27ac93dfe5c426f4da48ab4b0ef135943d04287-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"60690cfef3dd","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"b0702dbbed10","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a872d66b8a950","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MUD Gallery and EXPANDED.ART present the international group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, at the gallery in Shanghai, on the occasion of the exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024, and the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT (by Foundation Herbert W. Franke). Curated by Anika Meier, the exhibition showcases 11 artists who are working with AI today, imagining stories and exploring AI's creative potential. IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, embarks on a journey through the digital landscapes of tomorrow, crafted by the visionary minds of today's AI artists."},{"_key":"a872d66b8a951","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3a79050df96b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bec12d23d495","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the occasion of the group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, Anika Meier and Wu Yishen, the founder of MUD Gallery, discussed the past and present of generative art in China, the gallery's mission, and his thoughts on AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bece75c7d485","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"43c797864784","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6b65ea47e9eb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Yishen, MUD Gallery presents artists from China, but it also has a strong focus on the history of digital art. When did you found MUD Gallery?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f400251efa45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2a4026b80f150","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Wu Yishen: Founded in 2018, MUD Gallery is a space dedicated to the presentation and promotion of a diverse range of ancient world artifacts and contemporary art, with a particular focus on the modern transformation of classical Asian aesthetics. Shortly after its establishment, we started to prepare our "},{"_key":"e797ac1a5d67","_type":"span","marks":["5c1022124b2b"],"text":"MUDigital"},{"_key":"23e066fe9be0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" project, which I believe is the right way for the gallery to mirror the internet progression. We are increasingly aware of the importance of serious digital art for the global present and future."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"5c1022124b2b","_type":"link","href":"https://www.mudigital.art/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ca8c2404322b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c18c78a38740","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"你好，Anika，很高兴接受你的采访。泥轩空间成立于2018年，空间致力于呈现和推广各类世界古代文物与当代艺术结合的展示活动，其中尤其以亚洲古典审美的现代转化为主要方向。在成立之后不久，我们的MUDigital部门开始筹备，对于画廊整体来说，这是最完美的映照互联网时代的方式。我们越来越意识到严肃的计算机艺术对于全球当下和未来的重要性。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bd4eaa0ecffb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a43ab871be0a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f2e093d78d02","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Where is your gallery located in Shanghai?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"57376b40c81a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2124e43a1bbc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Our gallery is located in the M50 art district in Shanghai, an area that has always had a strong contemporary art scene here. We are surrounded by many galleries, and also the non-profit new media art organization, Chronus Art Center, as our neighbor."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9a6a0e48ac5b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5db1fd22b1ea0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"我们的画廊坐落于上海的艺术园区M50，这片区域一直是上海当代艺术氛围浓厚的区域，我们周围有很多艺术画廊，我们楼下还有一家非盈利新媒体艺术机构CAC，这对于我们空间来说是个不错的位置。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ae5a5d5f0df8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Wu Yishen in his office at MUD Gallery in China. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1fdd036de4d42ed598ad4f724008761220f3db76-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1fdd036de4d42ed598ad4f724008761220f3db76-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"256174c55f00","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"02220175d037","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4375b9c685c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You work with contemporary Chinese artists and with pioneers of early computer art. How do you choose the artists you work with?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8744d292d7ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"edf2296a38ff","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: In China, our family has hundreds of years of experience in art collection. Both my great-grandfather (Hufan WU) and great-great-grandfather (Dacheng WU) were important artists and collectors. Chinese classical aesthetics has always been the core of our family. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2c335ea0d21","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0757aa9a040","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the other hand, as many western scholars know, the aesthetics of Zen, accompanied by the progress of science, technology, and civilization, have always continued to evolve into new forms. Thus, in the current era, we never stop to think about and explore new possibilities. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d08586a94630","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b0d4aea5831","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Computer art, especially generative art, became one of the genres that we have been particularly interested in in the past few years. We are very fortunate that some of the early maestros of computer art have artworks related to the concept of Tai Chi, calligraphy, or Chinese landscape painting, which further enhances our determination to introduce these works to the Chinese audience. We are also trying to do more for the Chinese generative art, to provide a better environment for the local generative art community, and to bring in international exchanges."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"23455965eb45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6f1fa02d1c60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"在中国，我们家族有数百年的收藏经验，我的曾祖父和太高祖都是知名的收藏家和艺术家。中国古典美学一直是我们家族的核心关注点，另一方面，正如很多西方学者所了解的这样，东方禪的美学，始终伴随人类的科技和文明的进步不断的转化成新的形态，所以，在当下的时代，我们不断的思考和拓展更多的可能性，计算机艺术尤其是生成艺术，成了我们这几年特别关注的类型之一，特别有幸的是部分早期计算机艺术大师的作品都有和太极、书法或山水等等相关的表达，这就更加增进了我们希望为中国观众引入这些作品的想法，另一方面，我们也希望为中国生成艺术做更多事，为本土的生成艺术群体提供更好的发展环境，增进国际交流。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a992057dc9d8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4daa4fc998fb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f6796f16e7bd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Contemporary generative art is on your radar and you pay a lot of attention to what is happening in the NFT space. When did you get in touch with generative art for the first time?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"04bc2c251cf0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e64e7e87760b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: "},{"_key":"624eb4ead2b6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"During my high school years, math was my biggest hobby. I first read about fractals and generative art from Qi Dongxu's publication from the 1990s, and Hans Dehlinger was probably the first European generative artist I learned about from the book. While I was in college in the early 2000s, I came across personal websites of many excellent generative artists and also exhibitions of Casey Reas."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"53618325218a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9bffe0596f700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At that time, Flash AS was a very dominant software, and Processing was just in the beta stage but already had quite mature works. I created close to twenty works at that time and participated in the 2006 exhibition EXPANDING TURNS, which was one of the early gallery art exhibitions in China that included generative art. Coincidentally, the location of MUD today is exactly the address where I participated in the 2006 exhibition, so it is my honor to pass on this heritage."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2aaf6c5eb7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f943e88531980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"To me, there is always something very sincere in the work of early computer artists, as before the Web1 era, all computer creators around the world were in a very pure state; academia and open source were probably the consensus at that time. Because of my personal involvement, I know indeed that this was an excellent group and era, and genuine art could make everything better. So I am dedicated to sharing early computer art with everyone. I hope that more systematic collections of early computer art can emerge in China, and I believe that this is an important foundation for this genre to take root in China's art scene."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5fa81b16531e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b52ac878965a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"在我中学时期，数学是我最大的爱好，90年代在齐东旭先生的著作中，我第一次看到了有关分型和生成艺术的内容，Hans Dehlinger可能是我第一个了解到的欧洲生成艺术家。在2000年初期，我大学期间，通过互联网我看到了许多优秀生成艺术作者的个人网站，还有类似惠特尼美术馆给Casey reas先生做的展览，当时Flash AS是非常主流的形式，Processing刚刚在测试阶段，但已经有相当成熟的作品。我当时创作了接近20件作品并参加了2006年的“扩张的转折”展览，这是中国早期收录生成艺术的画廊艺术展览之一，很巧的是，今天泥轩的位置，正是2006年我参加展览的地址，所以，我们将在原来的位置继续迎接大家的到来。早期计算机艺术家的作品中有一种特别真诚的东西，因为在Web1时代之前，全球所有计算机创作者都处于非常纯粹的状态。原创、学术和开源是当时圈内的共识，因为亲身经历，所以我很了解这是非常美妙的群体和年代，真正的艺术，可以让一切更加美好。所以我特别愿意向大家分享早期计算机艺术的部分。我希望中国可以出现更多系统性早期计算机艺术收藏，我相信这也是这个类型能在中国严肃艺术领域生根发芽的重要基础。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"520d42b8e0a2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Library at MUD Gallery with publications on the history of early computer art and generative art. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-64b85be895cdf80a9a1904f357c91fce40477721-3921x1637-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-64b85be895cdf80a9a1904f357c91fce40477721-3921x1637-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"79db030f1dbb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"44a694f527f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fc4c48b4eaf00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What was initiating your interest in generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"def3bc612b8f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a79af6a0ad4c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: My generation grew up with computers and video games. In the 2000s, computer-generated visuals meant ideals and unknowns to me. Today, they are an increasingly important part. The world created by humans and computers needs to be explored thoroughly before the age of robotics fully arrives."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e7503bc03f8f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1fd7f93cbf9d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"首先，我意识到我们这代人是伴随计算机和游戏长大的。在2000年左右，他们对我来说意味着理想和未知。对今天而言，他们是越来越重要的部分，一份由人类和计算机共同创造的庞大数据库需要被梳理，在机器人时代到来之前。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c84c12b80f83","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08d9211a1e10","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"289276fd048b","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Many digital artists working today grew up playing video games, some of them are young enough to have grown up on the Internet. What are characteristics unique to the Chinese generative art scene?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"905bce0c2aeb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"321e4e865846","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: First of all, the Chinese language is very different from European languages. We still use hieroglyphics, which create very different thought patterns. Computer language differs from all natural languages, but it is closer to English or mathematical equations. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f531a0dcbf11","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"815944c20a45","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This uniqueness presents an additional challenge for creators of generative art in China, as they must master different linguistic logics simultaneously. Moreover, the binary form is very familiar to us, reminiscent of the Zhou Yi. Thus, I place great importance on the unique content of ancient Chinese mathematics and aesthetics, especially poetry and calligraphy, which I believe resonate the most with generative art and plotter works."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"66b6ac515e01","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d2f917426fc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"首先我们国家的自然语言和欧洲非常不同，我们依然使用象形文字，语言会使人的思维方式产生非常不同的形态。计算机语言不同于所有自然语言，但他更接近英语或者数学方程式，这使得在中国的生成艺术创作者会有更加独特的地方，他们必须同时掌握更多的自然语言方式。另外，计算机的二进制形式会令我们非常亲切，这让我们想起我们古老的周易，我本人会更加关注古代中国数学和美学中的独特内容，对我来说诗歌和书法，无疑是所有类型中最让我觉得会和生成艺术和绘图仪产生共鸣的部分。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b7ad7780ec77","_type":"moduleVideo","caption":"Wu Yishen's interactive generative artwork Antenna Star. Courtesy of MUD Gallery. ","video":{"_type":"file","asset":{"_ref":"file-4510b76c309e1d58d0ed9df05205de1fef53bc75-mp4","_type":"reference"}},"videoPosition":"left"},{"_key":"41d8f369bb73","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fe94bd7a70e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"99bb6bd565100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are themes and tropes the generative art community in China explores that are distinct from generative art in other parts of the world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ae99faea3419","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95f83b41f816","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: "},{"_key":"19fc77c5dea7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"China has a unique cultural history and social status quo. But we are having a better educational environment, and more younger people are developing interest in digital art. I gave a lecture introducing the history of generative art at the Central Academy of Fine Arts last year, and the young people liked it a lot. To be honest, our perception and collection of generative art are still in the beginning stages."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2308c9c4625","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9607589039860","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"China is a very large country with a large population, so I don't want my focus to be interpreted as the themes and tropes of the community, which is by no means not sufficient to present the whole picture. So at the moment, what I am doing is introducing more artists and pioneers to China, especially those who are related to China. I think it is a way to help extend our research on the history of Chinese computer art, which will be super helpful for the development of the local community."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"67063d800919","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d130551fedf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"中国有独特的文化历史和社会现状，我们拥有越来越好的教育环境，现在越来越多的院校和年轻人对生成艺术产生兴趣，去年我在央美做了一场介绍生成艺术历史的讲座，年轻人普遍都非常喜欢。从整体来看，我们对于计算机艺术和生成艺术的了解和收藏还在刚刚开始的阶段。中国是个人口大国，所以，我不希望自己关注的部分被理解成“主题路线”，因为这绝不足以呈现整体的全貌。在当下这个时间段，我很愿意为大家引入更多早期生成艺术家，尤其是那些和中国更加相关的部分，因为在我看来，在全球计算机艺术史的背景中逐步梳理华人计算机艺术的历史，是非常切实而有效的方式，这将有利于将来的发展。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"285647f0a3d3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"02060b34aec7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1bd937110be00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How has its development differed from and also mirrored the development in other parts of the world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"efe166912e58","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a64ef3c598870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Morphologically, the development of computer art in China will definitely be more relevant to China's history and social status. I believe with better art education for younger generations and community development, great artists will surely emerge. I expect that we can create more original content that is beneficial to the shared future of mankind."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3cc5468cdf02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"811f030671200","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"从形态上看，中国计算机艺术的发展一定会和中国的历史和社会现状更相关，在更好的教育条件下，一定会出现一些天才，我们期待中国能向世界输出更多有益于人类命运共同体的原创内容。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2fb8310f5b39","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Hans Dehlinger's solo exhibition LINE ART at MUD Gallery, 2023. Image courtesy of MUD Gallery.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6785ffc3245947f7c7d3d5dff2753acf3cb5f347-1535x1151-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6785ffc3245947f7c7d3d5dff2753acf3cb5f347-1535x1151-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"583044b7fe46","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"65ec8e9cbc56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7d2889d83ca0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Since many artworks in the digital realm stay digital, how do you evaluate high-quality prints as a form of conservation and presentation?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d7dcd9607a0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0694ccff90a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: This question holds significant importance from a collecting standpoint, particularly concerning digital art. I strongly advocate for increased collaboration among artists and collectors in addressing this issue, as it is a crucial aspect of preserving the history of computer art. Artists creating digital art should have the freedom to choose the mediums through which they present their work. Throughout history, museums and artists have showcased numerous successful examples using various mediums. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4325d7afafdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f794f9cade09","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, as times evolve, it becomes essential to establish a more reliable system, especially for preserving high-quality content. Can we provide a more equitable, fair, and enduring commitment in the long term? Affirmations for digital art are essential, and it is imperative that creators and collectors honor their commitments. We need increased transparency and involvement from galleries and institutions. Prints can sometimes be misleading, particularly in the art market, yet they remain a crucial form of computer art creation. In general, I prioritize respecting the creator's intentions and am open to accepting various forms of computer art when the artist provides their signature and authorization."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b793b27e4f08","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ef6f663380ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"从收藏角度来说，这是个很重要的问题，尤其对于电子艺术来说，我很希望更多艺术家创作者和收藏家可以共同参与到这部分内容中来，这也是分享计算机艺术史的重要部分。不同的电子艺术创作者有权选择不同的呈现方式，在各个历史阶段，美术馆和艺术家已经提出了不少优秀的成功方案。伴随时代的发展，我们如何构建一套更加可靠的制度，尤其是真正接近“艺术品”的那些高质量内容，从更长远的角度来看，我们是否可以给出更加合理公平的有效承诺？对于数字艺术，我们认为有些申明是必须的，希望创作者和收藏家都可以信守承诺，我们比以往更需要公正，更多画廊和机构应该参与其中。印刷品是很容易让人困惑的问题，尤其对于画廊这个行业来说，但这确实是计算机艺术创作中很重要的一种形态，在一般情况下，我倾向于尊重创作者的意愿，在艺术家本人签署授权的情况下，我可以接受各种计算机艺术的形态。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d3793f4d1e83","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9b4992805afa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"753065cad7a50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And what is an original in the digital realm? What should the artist aim at?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"091ce9e4d6af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06cd9e902d1a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Output with \"new\" thinking. Of course, it will be difficult to judge. \"New\" is related to the original intention and, at the same time, related to history; thus, it requires more information and time to validate. At the same time, I’m concerned that as time goes by, many comparisons and opinions may become more and more blurred. That is also why I think it is important to promote early generative art nowadays, where the significance of early computer artworks should be highlighted, compared to the ambiguous content in terms of originality. For creators who want to become serious artists, originality should be one of the necessary pursuits and goals."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e6a8f72920cb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f3cc135a3ab0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"带有“新”思考的输出，当然，这一点会比较难判断，“新”和创作初衷有关，同时和历史有关，检验需要更多信息和时间。而且我们更担心，伴随时间的推移，许多对比和观点都可能会变得越来越模糊。在我看来，这也是我们今天重视早期生成艺术的意义，相比更多在原创方面比较模糊的内容，早期计算机艺术代表作品显著的历史意义应该得以凸显。对于希望成为严肃计算机艺术家的创作者来说，原创应该是必要的追求和目标之一"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f16e9952f584","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e64902247bea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"093c17cd726c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: "},{"_key":"f551cab6a142","_type":"span","marks":["strong","04aedc8935e7"],"text":"IMAGINE TODAY, 2024"},{"_key":"5dabfd8caf67","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" is the second exhibition organized by MUD Gallery and EXPANDED.ART in Shanghai. Fellowship presents Niceaunties with her latest piece titled GOING HOME. This marks your first AI exhibition. What sparked your interest in AI? "}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"04aedc8935e7","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/exhibitions/imagine-today-2024"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1838f6df6cae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95c91dd140ca","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: In recent years, AI has undoubtedly been one of the hottest topics in the tech world. After Eugene Goostman's robot passed the Turing Test for the first time in 2014, various AI-related topics became more prevalent. The AlphaGo vs. Lee Sedol match in Asia in 2016 had a significant impact. By around 2018, GANs (Generative Adversarial Networks) rapidly gained prominence in the development of generative art, attracting many important generative artists to the field. Some new creators among them established this as their trademark. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b20793192ccf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a29ecb021652","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The significant proliferation of AI tools in recent years has ushered in a new era of creative possibilities. In the tech world, new technologies have always been an unavoidable focus, and they are likely to grow in importance. Globally, there is a need for the entire history of computer art to be better integrated into a system that the public can understand and appreciate, with the hope that more exceptional works will find their way into museums and galleries. For the general public, attaining a deeper understanding may take time, but every journey must begin somewhere, and now is the best time to start. We aim to provide better opportunities for Chinese enthusiasts and artists to showcase and appreciate their work, with the hope that the world will pay greater attention to these outstanding Chinese digital artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1c97bfeefe9d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a031d0729aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"最近几年，AI无疑是整个科技界最热门的话题之一，在2014年尤金·古斯特曼（Eugene Goostman）机器人第一次通过了“图灵测试”之后，人们陆续可以看到各种和AI相关的话题，在亚洲2016年AlphaGo和李世石的对决影响很大，差不多在2018年前后，GAN（生成对抗网络）创作迅速占据了生成艺术发展中的大片区域，很多非常重要的生成艺术家都参与到这类创作中来，也有一些新的创作者，一开始就以此为标志。当然，最近两年AI工具大规模爆发，又使得整个创作可能性发生了新的的转变，在科技领域新技术一直就是不可忽视的类型，我相信他们一定会变得越来越重要。对全球观众来说，整个计算机艺术的历史都需要有更好的方式连接成系统让大众去了解和接受，希望能有更多优秀的作品可以进入博物馆和美术馆。对更多人来说，深入的了解可能还需要时间，但凡事总需要一个开始，而最佳的时机往往就是现在。我们为中国的爱好者和艺术家提供更好的展示和欣赏条件，也希望世界可以更多的关注一些优秀的中国电子艺术家。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"108ae419aa0e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Mario Klingemann, Infinite Descent, still from the AI video, 2017. Courtesy the artist. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1a1ddc8cd7f7163150c6095bb08b8e653ee238c1-1022x984-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1a1ddc8cd7f7163150c6095bb08b8e653ee238c1-1022x984-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"e6ca3cd1c771","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3236577bd35f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b692ec3df11e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Speaking of generative art and art created with AI: What is good AI art, and what is good generative art to you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"edb047ae83d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"65c5edbb4d66","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Personally, regardless of the genre I am exploring, I tend to gravitate towards works from relatively early periods. I long for the earlier years of the 2000s when there existed a pure and uncommercialized atmosphere of creativity worldwide, akin to the realm of painting and other traditional art forms, which further fuels my passion for creation. This sentiment seems to be a common thread across various art disciplines' early stages. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a98b43ca618d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"588ca7ed5db2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The generative arts before the 1980s may not have possessed the technical sophistication of later iterations, but they exuded a unique flavor absent in subsequent generations. This type of appreciation resonates closely with ancient Chinese literati painting and has seamlessly integrated into my life. Simultaneously, I hold great admiration for creators who have attained exceptional levels of perfection. There truly exist artists who wield various tools with such mastery, and I believe that such works deserve to reach a broader audience's eyes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a30f836d935d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bdc2ebe5f7dc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"我个人的话，无论哪种类型，首先会更多的关注创作时期相对更早的作品，我非常怀念2000年初期的美好岁月，当时全世界各地的创作都有一种非常纯净无功利的气质，就如绘画和别的传统艺术门类一样，这会让我更加喜爱创作这件事，在所有艺术门类中，相对早期的部分似乎都有这种共性，80年代之前的生成艺术并没有之后那么复杂的技术，但是他们的韵味也是之后的类型所完全没有的。这种欣赏理念和古代中国文人画的趣味有非常接近的部分，这完全融入了我的生活。不过同时我也非常欣赏完成度非常高的创作者们，竟然真的有人可以把各种工具运用到如此程度，我认为这类作品的典型也很需要让更多观众看到。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d5fb2bff6edc","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fd56693d45eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73caa00195be0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you first hear about AI and what were your thoughts at that time?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1508744b1fdd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e548306be9b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: If this refers to the output of AI tools that have emerged recently, I found it very intriguing at that time. However, there are many outputs that I may find challenging to accept, and some of them are even difficult to embrace, possibly due to my personal biases."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2043e7b59c3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f497a89db5f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"如果是指最近出现的AI工具输出的话，我当时觉得很有趣，不过有很多输出，对我来说可能并不是十分容易接受，有些甚至很难接受，这或许是我还是带有个人的偏见。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a336bce8264","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ec6a3218eaee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d8c37c4a9b9e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Have you changed your mind?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"de8b3313a633","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"39d4114b42820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: It hasn't changed much compared to before. However, I have come across some talented creators, such as Niceaunties, in this exhibition. Skilled creators can uphold high standards with great precision. Therefore, it still requires the artist's touch. I believe that the fusion of ideas and preferences will become particularly crucial when creating art in this field."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cd70e6b0f8b4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a7f70186fe10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"和之前相比并没有太大变化，但我已经看到了一些优秀的创作者，比如这次展览的中的Niceaunties，优秀的作者可以将水准控制到很高的位置，所以，现在还是需要艺术家来完成，我认为在这个领域做艺术的话，思维和品味的结合将会变得尤为重要。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a7d6373fff31","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Going Home, still from an AI video, 2024. Courtesy Fellowship and the artist.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7bb4467c880e05f8298ab096f82aa58cf46e0bea-1670x1662-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7bb4467c880e05f8298ab096f82aa58cf46e0bea-1670x1662-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"4f4ed47cb04c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"316e717477a4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"886f3aee28da0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As mentioned, this is your first AI exhibition at MUD Gallery. What has been the feedback from collectors so far, and is AI art a significant topic in China? Would you like to introduce AI art and AI artists to the Chinese audience?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9bab1fd7097e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0965ab85d2d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: AI creation is still a new concept for Chinese collectors, but AI is rapidly advancing in China. Last year, I had the honor of delivering a lecture on generative art at the Central Academy of Fine Arts (CAFA), where I witnessed a significant number of students incorporating AI tools into their daily creative processes. I aspire for more young individuals to take notice of this exhibition, as I aim to connect with and understand them through this showcase."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"976911ea7b0d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c75475c508b50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"创作对于中国藏家来说，还是一个新鲜事物，但AI在中国发展的速度非常迅速，去年我有幸在央美（CAFA）做了一场有关生成艺术的讲座，我看到大量学校中的学生，现在每天都在使用AI工具来做各种创作，所以我希望能有更多年轻人关注这场展览，希望能够了解他们对这场展览的看法。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0afcff9285f4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"af9bdfc2067f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad2b1ac30a170","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are your predictions for the future of artists working with AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d13fdb25ec0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ced942e1cb7e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: AI is still in a nascent stage at the moment, so it's perfectly fine to delve into it if you're adept at navigating these types of new tools. Regarding the question itself, if people still seek a better answer, I believe we can all attempt to ask AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8004b88f9270","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a07e46f1d58a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"我相信现在AI还在一个初级阶段，所以，如果你非常善于驾驭这类新的工具，完全可以尽情投入。至于这个问题本身，如果大家还想得到更好的答案，我想我们不如都去尝试问问AI。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3ff24653d81c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Blue Flow Mutator (also known as Blue Worms Flower), still from Mutator AI Physics Software, Unique Custom Software developed by William Latham and Stephen Todd, 2024. Courtesy the artist.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1df6c6ade0ec2bf32b9a98cf5d14559b0cb2e31c-1080x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1df6c6ade0ec2bf32b9a98cf5d14559b0cb2e31c-1080x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"f2ab59d68b4a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d540e71ec053","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d6dea4d575ed","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I asked ChatGPT. Here is the answer. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c25e048b598a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"31998da48499","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ChatGPT: Predicting the future is always challenging, but based on current trends, it is likely that artists working with AI will continue to push the boundaries of creativity and innovation. Here are some potential predictions for the future of artists working with AI:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"61c7e9eae4d7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9b8d93a02cfd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Increased Adoption"},{"_key":"9b8d93a02cfd1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": More artists will likely incorporate AI tools and techniques into their creative processes as these tools become more accessible and user-friendly."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9cd865dd305c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f12db058d3a40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Diverse Art Forms"},{"_key":"f12db058d3a41","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": Artists will explore new and diverse art forms enabled by AI, leading to the emergence of novel styles and genres that blend human creativity with machine intelligence."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e3ef99786bce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64660ecc53bd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Collaboration between Humans and AI"},{"_key":"64660ecc53bd1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": Collaboration between artists and AI systems will become more common, with artists using AI as a tool to enhance their creative output rather than replace human creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7ab772496223","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"15cb9a106c080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Ethical and Legal Challenges"},{"_key":"15cb9a106c081","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": As AI-generated art becomes more prevalent, ethical and legal questions surrounding ownership, authorship, and copyright of AI-generated artworks will need to be addressed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"18ee3a63a9cf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"75f6f6db0a0a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Artificial Creativity"},{"_key":"75f6f6db0a0a1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": There may be debates and discussions about whether AI systems can truly be creative or if they are simply mimicking human creativity. This could lead to philosophical discussions about the nature of art and creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1d46cbee0ca2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b872d964efa50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"New Art Markets"},{"_key":"b872d964efa51","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": The rise of AI art could lead to the creation of new art markets and platforms specifically dedicated to AI-generated artworks, attracting collectors and enthusiasts interested in this emerging form of art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"50d681b73aab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"023ebb17f7060","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Impact on Society"},{"_key":"023ebb17f7061","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": AI art may have a broader impact on society, influencing cultural norms, challenging traditional notions of art, and sparking conversations about the intersection of technology and creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1ba3d5d408b7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e7246f0cb437","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d97469b2e7e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for taking the time for this conversation. 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\nPIERRE PAUZE: DRAW ME A BULL
15-28 FEBRUARY 2024
DRAW ME A BULL is the first solo exhibition by Pierre Pauze at the Showroom in Berlin.
The exhibition explores the intersection between data analysis and its representation models, depicting trading charts as a canvas where mathematical precision intertwines with the mysticism of predicting the future. The artworks are generated by AI models and blend real crypto chart images with hand-painted fictive representations. Pauze challenges the distinction between raw data and human intervention in crafting these patterns.
EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
EXPANDED.ART is pleased to present RECOLLECTION. AI AND MEMORY in collaboration with The NFT Gallery at their galleries in New York and London, 11 April – 13 May 2023.
19 artists explore the idea of further challenging the concreteness of human memory—personal or collective—through creative collaboration with AI. Memories are nebulous.
Scientific studies and phenomena such as \"The Mandela Effect\" have shown that humans rarely recall things in their unbiased exactitude. Artificial Intelligence already assists human memory in the form of predictive text and GPS navigation. One would surmise that there exists a role for AI when it comes to supplementing even more complex memory.
RECOLLECTION. AI AND MEMORY: 11 April - 13 May 2023
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The artists will release 1/1s and limited editions created in collaboration with AI.\n\n"},{"_key":"2da335fbe75d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"26 APRIL | 6 PM CEST | 12 PM ET | 9 AM PT"},{"_key":"691eef356e29","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nCrashblossom, "},{"_key":"3dade24a87b9","_type":"span","marks":["f880187e1a9d"],"text":"Ross Goodwin"},{"_key":"ce5332e9d302","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", "},{"_key":"1f9f01ab0f87","_type":"span","marks":["bf1721adfd13"],"text":"Kika Nicolela"},{"_key":"40e1fcaffb99","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", Manuel Rossner, Travis LeRoy Southworth, Anne Spalter & Nathaniel Stern, Sasha Stiles, Sabato Visconti, Erika Weitz\n\n"},{"_key":"7037e5b795de","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"28 APRIL | 6 PM CEST | 12 PM ET | 9 AM PT"},{"_key":"9eb461974cff","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nIlya Bliznets, Anna Dart, Olga Fedorova, Danielle King, Margaret Murphy, Roope Rainisto, Daria Rastunina, Stephan Vasement, Nicola Villa"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"f880187e1a9d","_type":"link","href":"https://objkt.com/collection/KT1J3LMZ8f15oDEKbBZhLXH8Hy3KLCLWcezT"},{"_key":"bf1721adfd13","_type":"link","href":"https://objkt.com/collection/KT1NXryCaPvxun2NJkjtaFgh9GQcygqd5xpt"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"73e7d2be40a2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e19192a4229b","_type":"span","marks":["strong","a943c962129e"],"text":"COLLECT ON EXPANDED.ART"},{"_key":"47edfa343692","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" \n\n"},{"_key":"2e245c3c7d83","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In collaboration with The NFT Gallery. The NFT Gallery exists to make NFTs more tangible, providing an immersive experience where both existing and emerging collectors can enjoy a curated selection of NFTs in a physical space, as well as online. 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EXPANDED.ART presents the international group exhibition of early computer art and generative art, THE THINKING MACHINE. PRESENTING PIONEERS, 1953-2023 in collaboration with ELEMENTUM.ART. Curated by Anika Meier and Georg Bak.
The exhibition will be on view from 6 to 27 JUNE 2023 at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin. Additionally, the NFTs will be shown at NFT ART Day Zürich on 11 June.
The exhibition presents pioneers from different generations, early 1950s until today, working in the field of generative art. On view will be, among others, plotter drawings, generative photography, sculptures, and NFTs from 30 international artists.
\nArtists: Ai-Da Robot, Victor Acevedo, Vladimir Bonačić, Analivia Cordeiro, Pierre Cordier, Geoff Davis, Hans Dehlinger, Boris Eldagsen, Primavera de Filippi, Herbert W. Franke, Hein Gravenhorst, Ira Greenberg, Samia Halaby, Heinrich Heidersberger, Karl Martin Holzhäuser, Roger Humbert, Gottfried Jäger, Mario Klingemann, Zach Lieberman, LoVid, Jonas Lund, Jennifer and Kevin McCoy, Lee Mullican, Frieder Nake, Piter Pasma, Aaron Penne, Manuel Rossner, Marcel Schwittlick, Travess Smalley, Marina Zurkow
\nEXPANDED.ART presents the group show THE TEXT IS THE MESSAGE. AN EXHIBITION OF MIXED MESSAGES at the gallery in Berlin.
What would Marshall McLuhan write today? Very likely text messages. The global village is now largely connected via messenger apps and social media. Life is closeness to strangers and friends, changing every second. Thoughts and feelings are shared as they are thought and lived.
Artists: Joachim Bosse, Emily Edelman, Claudia Hart, Andy Kassier, Anika Meier, Skye Nicolas, and Jurgen Ostarhild.
MARGARET MURPHY: RE: ROAD TRIP
2-13 NOVEMBER 2023
\"Many folks may ask me why I do not train an AI on my own images. For me, it’s about the element of the unexpected that is akin to photographing on the road. The element of chance, thanks primarily to the nature of AI generation without explicit knowledge of the data sets Midjourney is trained on, felt like the unexpected photographic encounters of my road trips, often impossible to recreate. The thrill of an image revealing itself was familiar, and I embraced it.\"
– Margaret Murphy
RE: ROAD TRIP by Margaret Murphy is a series of 150 AI-generated images reimagining the historically influential photographic genre of the road trip through the perspective of the contemporary female gaze. Murphy considers how this revered category has shaped and defined contemporary fine art photography using style influences, including artists such as Stephen Shore, Ed Ruscha, and Joel Sternfeld.
EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
View the collection on OpenSea.
View the NFT (Tezos) on objkt.one.
ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
Using text-to-image AI software, Margaret Murphy imagines non-existent landscapes inspired by the photographic works of historically significant artists such as Ansel Adams, Stephen Shore, and Robert Adams. The works of these revered photographers capture specific moments in natural and cultural history. Murphy’s interpretation of Adams, Adams, and Shore through photo-realistic artificial image creation hypothesises the way we may view and understand our world in the metaverse as a fusion of both pasts and futures.
View the NFT (Tezos) on objkt.one.
ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
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ABOUT THE WORK
For Hans Dehlinger, the age of the metaverse is one of bright colors and bold shapes. In TREE_16_ON_PINK, the gnarled, graceful appearance of an ancient tree is combined with an expansive, rectangular-shaped crown that is visibly and deliberately designed for a 16:9 screen. By \"growing\" into the screen format, TREE_16_ON_PINK symbolically bridges nature and technology. Also, the \"techno tree\" appears to be glowing from within, but it could just be heat haze. The natural and the artificial blend here as well.
\"The pinkish sky and the tree’s shape invoke an image of a dry and dusty landscape. They exude the surreal beauty of what one would hope is just a spectacular sunrise and not impending doom. That sky is too evenly colored, though. Nature is still the basis. If it goes up in flames, technology will burn with it.\"
\n– Hans Dehlinger
Trees have been a subject of Hans Dehlinger’s generative artwork for over 20 years. TREE_16_ON_PINK is one of two new works created for the show TECHNO TERRAIN. NATURE IN THE AGE OF THE METAVERSE. It references earlier artworks of his with trees. Two of them, tree11 and baum_V14, were exhibited at SIGGRAPH in 2002.
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ABOUT THE WORK
During a 2019 visit to a marble quarry in northern Italy, Chris Coleman took several hundred photographs from the rim and from deep inside the man-made chasm. The photos were used to reconstitute the hole in the earth using software and cartesian coordinates.
The dissection of the planet is particularly evident in the case of marble quarries, where they carefully remove the diamorphic stone in precise rectangular blocks using water-cooled ropes covered in diamonds. It is a violent action on the landscape that can only happen because of humans and their grids of control.
DEMORPHIC by Coleman takes the negative space of the quarry and rebuilds it data point by data point, almost as if it is drawing all the missing marble back to the hillside. But it cannot happen; the marble has been cut, carved, and shipped around the world. Somewhere at an ocean villa, it has been formed into a pissing cherub and somewhere else into a McMansion countertop. Our million-year habit of taking what is buried and strewing it about is quickly leading to a world we cannot live in. Perhaps we should stop.
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09065_001 SCHEESTERNCHEN (EN: little snowflake) by Heinrich Heidersberger covers a wide range of topics, from architecture to algorithmic art.
The focal point of this piece is snow crystals. On cold winter nights, Heidersberger caught single snow crystals to photograph them with a specially constructed microscope. It was originally produced on a 6 x 6 roll film. Affectionately, he called the result SCHEESTERNCHEN.
\nInspiration was likely drawn from the work of the US-American Wilson A. Bentley, who photographed thousands of snow crystals, analysed them, and published a book in 1931. The seemingly infinite multitude of shapes results from the molecule structure of water.
\nIn collaboration with Benjamin Heidersberger and Institut Heidersberger.
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ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
It's for looking at.
View the NFT (Tezos) on objkt.one.
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All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
\"Sunflower-bordered roads always seem to me the roads to freedom.\"
– Willa Cather, MY ÁNTONIA (1918)
\n\"I always felt deeply connected to the truth of that unpretentious quote from the book about American West pioneers written over a century ago. But in February 2022, this idea got a new dimension: sunflowers became the national flower of Ukraine. It was when I made the initial sketch of the work THE ROAD TO FREEDOM, which took me more than a year to finish.
\nWorking on this piece, I was reminiscing about the beautiful countryside of my childhood summers back in the Soviet 1980s: the colorful, abundant land, the friendly locals, and their language—though I struggled to understand it—had a musical charm that sparked my desire to learn it.
\nI intentionally turned the somewhat stark original work into an animated quilt of sorts. By choosing a folk style, I aimed to capture the idea of craft not as a decorative creative outlet but mostly as a way of preserving the national cultural identity—a phenomenon I witnessed in pretty much all the former Soviet republics: craft as an embodiment of the spirit of resistance—the road to freedom.\"
\n– Helena Sarin
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the NFT (Tezos) on objkt.one.
ABOUT EXPANDED.ART x objkt.one
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
ABOUT THE WORK
SHUNDO ODDISH by Skye Nicolas integrates an extraordinarily elusive virtual creature with nature. Such representations of supernatural beings invading and residing in our physical universe have their aesthetic roots in the classic yōkai scroll art of 16th-century Japan depicting mythical monsters, illustrating a rich heritage of fantastic tales told throughout the Edo period.
In 2016, the artist played the popular augmented reality game Pokémon Go under the name VICIOUSYOUTH. After four years of immersive gameplay, he has encountered, captured, and successfully collected several \"Shundo\" Pokémon: exceedingly scarce digital creatures, an amalgam of \"shiny\" Pokémon, a highly rare and sought-after variant, and a \"hundo,\" which signifies it has perfect IVs or individual values, broken down into three statistics: attack, defence, and stamina (HP). These metrics combined make for an almost impossible catch. The work is comprised of a video capture featuring Shundo Oddish, caught on October 5th, 2019 in Santa Monica, California. The elusive grass-type Pokémon is released in a lush physical environment observed through augmented reality (AR)—an idyllic Japanese garden with its carefully curated collection of exotic flora serves as the verdant threshold for the creature. The boundary between tangible nature and the ethereal is breached, compelling us to confront the intricate interplay of existence and simulation.
\nSHUNDO ODDISH peers beyond the veil of emergent AR technologies, confronting the ephemeral nature of value extracted from the fertile soil of new digital economies, where precious digital assets are anointed as revered treasures. Ultimately, the whimsical yet disarming piece exists as a poignant reflection of our ever-growing collective fascination with the alchemy of augmented experiences. Suspended between dream and reality, we are made privy to a liminal space where the boundaries of the physical and the virtual dissolve and the botanical dances with the digital.
\nSHUNDO ODDISH echoes Jannis Kounellis’ Untitled/12 Horses, 1969, a seminal moment in postmodern art wherein the incorporation of live animals was essential to the creation of the artwork. Nicolas reframes Kounellis’ gambit with a contemporary context explored through the magical lens of augmented reality, adding new layers of inquiry while exploring the phenomenon of our increasing parasocial relationships with anthropomorphized digital entities and their role within an evolving digital economy.
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TECHNO TERRAIN: NATURE IN THE AGE OF THE METAVERSE
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
OPENING: 29 AUGUST 2023 | 6-9 PM CEST
TECHNO TERRAIN: NATURE IN THE AGE OF THE METAVERSE in collaboration with objkt.one explores the dynamic relationship between nature and the digital realm. The exhibition takes visitors on a journey through a mesmerizing fusion of AI-driven digital art, nostalgia-infused landscapes, and the limitless possibilities of the metaverse.vIt is an invitation to contemplate the intersection of nature and technology.
Drawing inspiration from art history and retrofuturism, TECHNO TERRAIN celebrates the rich heritage of artistic movements while embracing the innovative techniques of digital creation.
Artists: Connie Bakshi, Chris Coleman, Hans Dehlinger, Dev Harlan, Claudia Hart, Heinrich Heidersberger, Kalen Iwamoto, Margaret Murphy, Skye Nicolas, OONA, Jurgen Ostarhild, Qubibi, Helena Sarin, Rick Silva, Patrick Tresset, aurèce vettier
All NFTs (1 of 1s) will be available via auctions on objkt.one on August 31, 6 PM CET.
EXPANDED.ART SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
NFT DROP: 6 JUNE 2024 | 6 PM CET
KEVIN ESHERICK: IN UTERO
6-29 JUNE 2024
What does it mean to be conscious? What is it like to be an AI? IN UTERO explores these questions through a series of \"latent paintings,\" images pulled from the edges of latent space using a novel diffusion technique to peer inside the mind of an AI image model. What results is a collection of hazy, half-formed figures prying their way out of abstraction and into reality—a portrait of artificial intelligence’s movement out of in utero and into existence.
\nEXPANDED.ART | Gallery
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Herbert W Franke: CODED BEAUTY
2–26 March 2023
EXPANDED.ART | BERLIN
CODED BEAUTY is comprised of eight works from Franke’s series MATH ART created between 1980 and 1995, early generative photographs from the 1950s, his Biennale serigraphy, including QUADRATE (1969/70), and further serigraphies.
View the collection on OpenSea.
\nIn 2021, Herbert W. Franke and Harry Yeff started a conversation about the concept of VOICE GEMS and an audio-visual collaboration. Franke suggested using the lyrics of ASTROPOETICON because they are a minimalist and associative approach to language that could have been created by an AI. These lyrics were frozen as gemstones, the VOICE GEMS ASTROPOETICON, created by Herbert W. Franke, Harry Yeff, Trung Bao and an AI. (The first three 1/1s have been minted and collected in 2021.)
The lyrics used for the VOICE GEMS ASTROPOETICON (DESTINATION IN UNCERTAINTY) belong to a cycle of 16 poems called ASTROPOETICON. Written by Franke in 1979 to be published in a book alongside artworks by German space artist Andreas Nottebohm, he voiced them on the occasion of his 80th birthday in 2007.
Every voice is unique, and with that comes unique fingerprint-like data that can be used for bespoke and human centred generative design. Harry Yeff (aka REEPS100) and Trung Bao have developed a voice-centred generative system utilising data found in a human voice to synthesise the artworks’ form and colour. Features like pitch, resonance, harmonics and pace sculpt 200 000 particle data points in a simulated digital space. The VOICE GEMS series is a vibrant, unprecedented meditation highlighting remarkable and influential voices. Each VOICE GEM is added to the VOICE GEMS: 1000 Year archive.
Herbert W. Franke (1927–2022) was a pioneer of computer art who anticipated the metaverse. For several decades, he separated three lives: the caver and scientist; the artist and curator; and the science fiction author. In the early 1950s, caving led him to experiment with light and technology. He kept his curiosity throughout his life; it was his drive to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. His pioneering spirit made him one of the first computer artists who was more than six decades ahead of his time. In 1979, he co-founded Ars Electronica. Franke has been called “the most prominent German science fiction writer” by Die Zeit, and a “short story fireworker” by the FAZ. In 2022, his first NFT Drop MATH ART sold out within 30 seconds on Quantum, and he was the headliner at the Tezos Booth at Art Basel with MONDRIAN, a work from 1979. Herbert W. Franke died on July 16, 2022, at the age of 95, leaving behind an extensive oeuvre.
Presented by EXPANDED.ART in collaboration with art meets science – Foundation Herbert W. Franke and ELEMENTUM.ART on the occasion of Herbert W. Franke’s solo show CODED BEAUTY at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin. The art meets science – Foundation Herbert W. Franke will use their portion of the sales for a designated purpose: translating significant texts by Herbert W. Franke to English and making them publicly available.
ASTROPOETICON (DESTINATION IN UNCERTAINTY) by Herbert W. Franke
Destination in uncertainty
solar sail unfolded
ride on the ion beam
home port: beyond space and time
sensors, directed to the void
signals from the dark field
circuits on hold
ice crystals in the cells
veins without blood
memory wiped out
the past: obliterated
existence between dream and death
will there be an awakening?
will there be any hope?
in front: clouds and cosmic dust
behind it maybe
a galaxy
star systems, suns
planets bathed in warmth and light -
wake-up call from the tape
uncharted territory!
behind it, perhaps:
a void
Ziel im Ungewissen
Sonnensegel aufgespannt
Ritt auf dem Ionenstrahl
Heimathafen: Jenseits von Raum und Zeit
Sensoren, ins Leere gerichtet
Signale aus dem Dunkelfeld
Schaltkreise in Wartestellung
Eiskristalle in den Zellen
die Adern ohne Blut
die Erinnerung getilgt
die Vergangenheit erloschen
Dasein zwischen Traum und Tod
ob es ein Erwachen gibt?
ob Hoffnung besteht?
vorn: Wolken und kosmischer Staub
dahinter vielleicht
eine Galaxis
Sternsysteme, Sonnen
Planeten, gebadet in Wärme und Licht –
Weckruf vom Tonband:
Neuland!
dahinter vielleicht:
Leere
A NEW BEGINNING provides an overview of the upcoming EXPANDED.ART program while delving deeper into the history of digital art, beginning with Herbert W. Franke's photographs from 1953.
\nParticipating Artists: Kim Asendorf | Arvida Byström | Jesse Draxler & Skygolpe | Herbert W. Franke (Estate) | Daniel Gebhart de Koekkoek | die with the most likes | Esra Gülmen | Leander Herzog | Andy Kassier | Clare Kenny | Mario Klingemann | Maya Man | Martina Menegon | Lee Mullican (Estate) | Margaret Murphy | Skye Nicolas | Operator | Manuel Rossner | Travess Smalley | Sasha Stiles | Iskra Velitchkova | Ruohan Wang | Maxim Zhestkov
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The exhibition will include an expansive universe created by the artist‘s code and generative AI, and drawings exploring generative systems by hand.\n\n\"My life is pretty much controlled by beasts, it always has been. I engage with beasts directly and very physically in my space: cats, dogs, mice, pack rats, horses, birds, squirrels, dragonflies, bees, cockroaches, fire ants. Other interactions are less tangible: parasites, bacteria, viruses."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6318ddda44fc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6318ddda44fc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Some beasts are not physical at all. Yet their presence is equally impactful (maybe more so). When I think about my family history and stories of urgent emigration, fleeing war zones with protracted dislocations, I’m reminded of other kinds of beasts, those who impact outer and inner lives."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e3e012687cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b59ab0cef8b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This Generative AI long-form project explores beasts as both physical manifestations of nature’s generative power and the beasts lurking within, including those within the collective unconscious.\"\n\n– Ira Greenberg\n\nWith an eclectic background combining art and computer science, Ira Greenberg has been a painter, programmer, computer science professor, and author. Currently, Greenberg is Director of the Center of Creative Computation and Professor at SMU, with a joint appointment in the Meadows School of the Arts and the Lyle School of Engineering. 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Greenberg has an eclectic background combining art and computer science. Well known for having written the first book on the Processing programming language, "},{"_key":"520569d313ab","_type":"span","marks":["88d41eb3db9e"],"text":"Processing: Creative Coding and Computational Art"},{"_key":"8f6137490e70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (Berkeley, CA: friends of ED, 2007), Greenberg has led the way for the present and future of creative computing and AI art."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"88d41eb3db9e","_type":"link","href":"http://www.amazon.com/Processing-Creative-Coding-Computational-Foundation/dp/159059617X/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a31dd6d5e444","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8e5ab8c44ad2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Greenberg holds a B.F.A. from Cornell University and a M.F.A. from the University of Pennsylvania.\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d457fbb0a2f9","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3bf55ebb0fe1a8ef76304e40ffc7674c926c5442-800x800-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"right","text":[{"_key":"d62ee4c71714","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d62ee4c717140","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Currently, Greenberg is Director of the Center for Creative Computation and Professor at SMU, with a joint appointment in the Meadows School of the Arts and the Lyle School of Engineering.\n\nPreviously, he was Associate Professor at Miami University (Ohio), where he held a joint appointment within the School of Fine Arts and Interactive Media Studies program and was an affiliate member of the Department of Computer Science and Systems Analysis."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f7a5b91b2ce6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7a5b91b2ce60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He has steadily exhibited his work, consulted within the industry, and lectured widely throughout his career."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"743a820ae992","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"9f9bb4761f5e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a90ed2ccc12c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. "},{"_key":"c9876468e300","_type":"span","marks":["cfbba81db9e1"],"text":"E-Mail"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"cfbba81db9e1","_type":"contactMail","address":"info@expanded.art","subject":"Inquiry"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cdf581cdfc89","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"52d5f5b245ad0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Follow Ira Greenberg: "},{"_key":"f5691f669625","_type":"span","marks":["94ab51102ca4"],"text":"Twitter"},{"_key":"f6a37a8c70c2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"96d3de4c661d","_type":"span","marks":["b99f97600168"],"text":"Website"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"94ab51102ca4","_type":"contactTwitter","url":"https://twitter.com/iragreenberg"},{"_key":"b99f97600168","_type":"contactWebsite","url":"https://iragreenberg.org/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0eba693a0e24","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"b2f481ad7ac7","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-496357343498","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"249f015c5bcb","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"fda0da641c23","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"559a7d88-4a3b-4243-b1dc-e0246146db89","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"3508c31cd267","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"4d723ae3-5e0e-4a8d-bb74-235c14e913bb","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"ed78905f26d5","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"6bdedf6a043a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"03dd6c73-cbfa-4594-8174-73ad3633161c","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"be6f66bb0f3a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bd69cd39-8b18-4427-a9b0-7608a93e7f63","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"e309b3b8b076","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"96de8287-f82c-4c74-ba75-9bc544d18097","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"ira-greenberg"},"store":null,"teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8486c1ea4c942808efc10b88965161c09bb98a2c-1280x1280-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"IRA GREENBERG"},"videoUrl":null}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"6939b82913dd","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":null,"teaserItems":[{"_key":"0acbe884c52e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-03-28T15:46:55Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-496357343498","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfswRLz","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:05.124Z","descriptionHtml":"","disjunctive":false,"gid":"gid://shopify/Collection/496357343498","id":496357343498,"imageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/collections/slider_IraGreenberg2.png?v=1680021189","isDeleted":false,"rules":[{"_key":"73e94db0-3c3c-5ff0-b533-4577fde29b93","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"Ira Greenberg","relation":"EQUALS"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"ira-greenberg-beasts"},"sortOrder":"MANUAL","title":"IRA GREENBERG | BEASTS","variants":null}},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"aa1221101bbf","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-04-05T13:59:52Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-496827367690","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfswRLz","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:06Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:05.151Z","descriptionHtml":"","disjunctive":false,"gid":"gid://shopify/Collection/496827367690","id":496827367690,"imageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/collections/BL_04_4.88_3.png?v=1680703191","isDeleted":false,"rules":[{"_key":"963dd4b2-c7be-591d-8281-67dc432a777c","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"Ira Greenberg NFTs","relation":"EQUALS"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"ira-greenberg-beasts-nfts"},"sortOrder":"BEST_SELLING","title":"IRA GREENBERG | BEASTS (NFTs)","variants":null}},"videoUrl":null}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"ac166347cb24","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":null,"teaserItems":[{"_key":"4b8a3c915fbd","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-03-14T09:27:40Z","_id":"559a7d88-4a3b-4243-b1dc-e0246146db89","_rev":"VXSuNzhuQIlmBtQDS4doUT","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-10-14T22:18:48Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-006f1f7ddbd41f6ed9392c1a76462309c57c4b2b-5856x3600-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"f10c0c1aaedb","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"9212d1874acb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73cbf93f10130","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"With a background in classical art history and a pioneering spirit for the matter of computer science, Ira Greenberg has been feverishly creating in the fields of painting and coding and has worked as a creative director and art and computer science professor. He has been experimenting with creative coding and generative art long before NFTs gained momentum. With works like ORACLES and GLOMULARUS, he has taken the NFT space by storm. \n\nIra Greenberg discusses his extraordinary career with Anika Meier.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"480a40cb644a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Self-portrait as Garden gnome, acrylic on board, 2018.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d14497ee1a6c391410e49d76dd31f11975d7f3a3-906x900-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d14497ee1a6c391410e49d76dd31f11975d7f3a3-906x900-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"a8af5d00e697","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"973bcb0651cd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1680c1c997470","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Ira Greenberg, I found this remarkable sentence in your bio. You write: \"When not sitting aimlessly in front of his laptop...\" I assume this is where your creative process starts. When did you first sit aimlessly in front of a computer and end up creating art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d4570a8bd0f4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6688e6b5ce340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ira Greenberg: I need to go back to around 1979/1980, when a neighborhood friend’s dad, a professor at the local university, brought home a computer. My friend and I spent hours playing early text based games (e.g. Zork). This friend was a true genius, so it was fun exploring that magic box together. Though it would be about a decade before I began using a computer explicitly for creative work, that sense of awe about the machine never left.\n\nIn 1992, upon graduating with my MFA in painting and having a pretty major first teaching job failure, an uncle suggested I look into computer graphics. I rented a Mac, got some free early Adobe pirated software and aftermarket books, and spent about two months teaching myself to do desktop publishing. This rather quickly led to paying work and an unexpected level of expertise. It helped that no one else really knew what they were doing, and I realized I was good at teaching myself this stuff. The truth is, I loved reading the early computer graphics manuals so much that I found it a little disturbing. I was supposed to be a painter."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"381d939eccf1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bf7b0f4d99a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6c39821ebf140","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Was your painting background helpful when you started to learn more about computer graphics?"},{"_key":"2e02749a4763","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5a1f729a62cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ef8c1f13f36b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: The more I learned, the deeper I wanted to go. I think my painting background, which is exclusively observational, drove this impulse. It felt like I was trying to get to the fundamental materiality of the machine, to the computation itself. After moving through all aspects of applied computer graphics and some basic scripting, I knew I had to learn to code and refresh my math knowledge. So I went back to the manuals and began a very deep dive, teaching myself languages like Lingo, ActionScript, and Java. I also quickly realized that the programming manuals weren’t good and were not written for people like me, who lacked the ability to follow rules.\n\nOnce I got to the code, I found something akin to paint and charcoal, and I was able to map my creative practice to computation, less as an applied tool but more as a generative medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ee0122829212","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Garden View, AI, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-732500a65e88e45c2f25ed7581b1776367d44ffe-2048x2048-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-732500a65e88e45c2f25ed7581b1776367d44ffe-2048x2048-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"7dcc65b149e6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e5e6452a533d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2004b7cb39d20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: To be precise, not only this one sentence in your bio is remarkable, but your career itself, I think, is extraordinary. Your most recent NFT collection, "},{"_key":"f1d1d1cafc3c","_type":"span","marks":["strong","2b22588d72b3"],"text":"THE ORACLES on Emergent Properties"},{"_key":"5b987f93b2f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":", reflects that you combine a classically trained art historical background with your expertise in computer science and your work with new technologies over the past decades. How do you usually explain or give an overview of your career?\n"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"2b22588d72b3","_type":"link","href":"https://emprops.ai/projects/the-oracles?page=1&size=51"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a11db3461d9f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"36cc60b284990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: I guess I have always been too egocentric and impulsive to ever question whether what I wanted to do was realistic or even remotely possible. Even when I studied painting, it quickly became, \"How can I make paintings to hang next to Titian, Rembrandt, Cezanne, etc.”\n\nI tend to be attracted to finding and hitting limits. As a middle-aged ice hockey player, that included tearing ligaments, tendons, and muscles. With my creative practice, it was finding a way to support my family while doing the work I wanted to do without compromising.\n\nEven back when I was an undergraduate, I realized that I couldn’t work for someone and that I wanted to be able to study the things that interested me on my schedule. I looked at my art professors as a 20-year-old, and they seemed to have a great life, so I decided that’s how I’d pay the bills. No one told me at the time how hard it was to land a tenure-track art position."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"453d05858080","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9d865b934256","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"04d8f529aa160","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And your academic career was helpful for your artistic endeavors?"},{"_key":"a5fdca3e3358","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dd1fda1d9c40","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c5ae3dfacc40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: For the most part, this model of academic patronage has worked for me. I was pretty good at prioritizing my creative research, and as I got more involved in computation, art departments were actively seeking this skill and experience. It helped me outcompete nearly all of my peers; in many ways, it was just dumb luck that I picked something of utility to learn. Of course, there was very little utility I was actually using computation for.\n\nThis state has pretty much been my career for a couple decades now. There were some well-received Processing books, national grants, and forays across disciplines (CS, Data Science), and I built a center around creative computation, but what I never really explored was the art world and art market. I had an early experience, right out of grad school, with Bowery Gallery in NYC, but I found the experience mostly negative at the time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2e3de036e5a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Robot and Flowers, AI, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ce99e67b642d0f2e3e306cc3b252970ec2e1bc62-3072x3072-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ce99e67b642d0f2e3e306cc3b252970ec2e1bc62-3072x3072-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"241f10d7a8ee","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bdb24925371f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86d29c08cfa50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I assume you suddenly haven’t had a choice but to explore the art market since you started releasing your first NFTs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"90d4b391cc4a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cbeec2d78c480","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: Beginning about five years ago, I began to wonder about something beyond academia. For the first time in my career, I imagined a life fully devoted to my practice. Nothing really changed though for a while, until the NFT space took off, really the generative art NFT space. One day, an ex-student showed me Art Blocks and said, \"Hey, this is what you taught us”. It was startling to see the interest in the work and money that people were spending for digital files, work that some of us were doing 20 years earlier as pure art research exploration with no prospect of earning any money from it.\n\nThe generative NFT space has reinvigorated my passion for creative coding. I’ve found a similar excitement in what’s happening in the generative AI space. It’s been fun engaging with a new generation of artists and students passionate about learning to code as a creative medium. And it’s honestly been very rewarding to sell a fair amount of art, something that I never really saw a path toward when I began the art journey."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8801f27bb746","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"7634a5fe619e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6e05756b7caf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"I began to think there was no longer a difference between my bodies of work; both were generative and emergent, and so I needed a new way of describing this integration. Post-computational is what I came up with.\" – Ira Greenberg\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"blockquote"}]},{"_key":"2659b7493f81","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"02c1a48886ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7db5c62bd44a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You define your process as “post-computational”. What does that mean?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"99ef32ecfd42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"596dcfe8e7a60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: Though I’ve been able to develop a creative practice working across drawing and painting and creative computation, it hasn’t been a smooth journey. For many years, I felt torn between painting and coding. Aside from the practices being so different, the communities were also completely distinct. I will always have a deep, almost religious, reverence for painting; it really is what set me free as a young person. The most spiritual moments in my life have probably been standing in front of paintings in major museums.\n\nCoding is something I’m good at and is also very natural for me. I find the practice somewhat meditative, but I don’t have the same deep reverence for code that I do for painting. It may be because there’s not much history or heroes or icons there that I aspired to be like or learn from; it was pretty much a blank slate when I started.\n\nI spent many years wrestling with this bifurcation in my practice. It would usually amount to intense periods of painting and coding, but almost never concurrent practices. While I was in these intense periods, I found myself engaging with the different communities, almost like two separate families. Eventually, I found a limit here as well, where I almost lost all interest in my practice, with no sense of clear direction or connection. It took a trip overseas and some wandering around a new city to begin the process again through some simple drawing.\n\nI began to wonder how my years of computation had changed me and how that experience could inform my drawing and painting. For most of my career, I was searching for materiality in computation. I used to say I was trying to figure out how to ‘make code drip'. I hadn’t asked myself how algorithms could influence my drawing or painting. I began to think of drawing as an embodiment of algorithms and shifted my material practice from observation to automatic. This led to an explosion of new work and investigations.\n\nMost of this automatic work occurs at an unconscious level, where I create random fields of marks and then begin excavating structures and (sometimes) narratives of what begins to reveal itself to me. I try not to judge or direct the work too early. If I do, it often feels too contrived and less surprising. In many ways, I’m still doing observational work, but the motif reveals itself in real-time directly in the work. There is also a fascinating correlation with this automatic process and diffusion in AI, my most recent obsession.\n\nSo I began to think there was no longer a difference between my bodies of work; both were generative and emergent, and so I needed a new way of describing this integration. Post-computationa’ is what I came up with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"142d5207d94e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Prismatic Thickets, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7e69a12d7a6601dca7b51cc53f5fd8dfd3657b6a-1920x975-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7e69a12d7a6601dca7b51cc53f5fd8dfd3657b6a-1920x975-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"4a9e1c282f54","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ef6a9353ee9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8b9d21af2230","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You also state in your bio: “Regardless of medium, my process is primarily generative/emergent.” Generative art has a long history but has gained momentum now due to NFTs. In what ways has generative art changed over the past two years compared to pre-NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"82e52800e42e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69f0792d38f30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: ‘Generative’ for me signifies parameterized randomization. Emergence is a by-product of a generative process. The parameterization – the really stratified parameterization – is where the creative expression resides. Back in 2003, when I first created Protobytes, I realized I could use code, math, and randomization to create distinct creatures. It was one of my first experiences, in a sense, drawing with code like I was drawing with charcoal. Rather than creating random geometry, marks, and other visual artifacts defined by computational drawing methods, I was leveraging the computation more as a collaborator than a supplicant to create something more integrated.\n\nI spent most of my career exploring this human-machine collaborative and creative space. Though I have taught and coded many popular algorithmic phenomena, e.g., cellular automata, L-systems, fractals, grids, etc., I’ve always been compelled to find something less computational through the computation. The NFT space has created an explosion of practice and interest in geometric and algorithmic explorations of form, pattern, fields, etc. Art Blocks, with their on-chain limitations, has perhaps become the pantheon for this type of work.\n\nSo for me, there is something historical about much of this generative NFT work. Some of it is extraordinary, so I don’t mean to criticize it at all; it’s just territory that some of us explored a while back. Though there are certainly many people now doing it better than we ever did."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"15f832692ab2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"80f299ae6d45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f69694e05dbb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has releasing long and short-form NFT projects on "},{"_key":"cb3416757ab8","_type":"span","marks":["strong","a60abde7ffcf"],"text":"fxhash "},{"_key":"74b5403634d9","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"and Objkt altered your personal artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"a60abde7ffcf","_type":"link","href":"https://www.fxhash.xyz/u/Ira%20Greenberg"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2f116aa1b1e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ed3d7243c070","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: My practice has changed most dramatically with the introduction of Stable Diffusion. My generative art drops on fxhash were less new territory for me. Though the dynamics of putting work into a marketplace were very new to me, I did quickly realize that the collector base and even many of the other artists were different from back in the early Flash and Processing days. My initial projects on fxhash were fairly complex computationally. I tend to code most things from scratch, so all the physics is generally hand-coded without the use of a physics library, and I like to push each project a little further to challenge myself.\n\nWhat I saw over time was less engagement in the marketplace with some of the more complex work. Back in the early days, the only people who really hacked around with this stuff had pretty developed coding chops, so there was an appreciation for complexity in the code and execution. We certainly cared about formal design aesthetics, but it was more at the service of creative coding aesthetics and pushing the technical envelope."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e534d6884435","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Cephalopod, 2022. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bf3242ea61cc888bad2afe19648e982863a7d52f-566x838-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bf3242ea61cc888bad2afe19648e982863a7d52f-566x838-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9f3affa9909d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"926f69fc5e7e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"591e6dba6d780","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there anything you've learned about AI by experimenting with Stable Diffusion?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"931ff0f76ae7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f9f0ca2fcbe20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: When I first began playing with Stable Diffusion, it blew my mind. Less so because it could produce very realistic things, but much more so because of how generative it was. I fed some of my drawings into it, and what it produced were incredible variations. The drawings, though automatic and not based on any specific motif or model, were figurative and informed by my interest in early Renaissance painting. The variations the AI produced taught me things about the work, such as new or alternative forms, figures, and spaces that could exist in the drawings. Because I included some of my heroes, Piero della Francesca, Andrea Mantegna, and Giovanni Bellini, in the text prompt, the output also felt like it transported me back in time to the early fifteenth century.\n\nStable Diffusion has felt like a technology I was waiting to be invented for 20 years. It perfectly combines my fascination with drawing and painting with generativity. I’ve been greatly enjoying doing both short and long-form drops with the work, and honestly, if not for market dynamics, I would probably be releasing multiple pieces every day. I feel like I have years of pent-up work inside me to release."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2f5ec3734bce","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"caf2c5af51fb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bcc0c35a56710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: GLOMULARUS is probably your most well-known release on "},{"_key":"037935093ff0","_type":"span","marks":["strong","29ac805f4471"],"text":"fxhash"},{"_key":"fba6755b1467","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":". It is a study of generative, artificial life forms. Could you tell us a bit more about that project?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"29ac805f4471","_type":"link","href":"https://www.fxhash.xyz/u/Ira%20Greenberg"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d42f05a56e17","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"415240797ca80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: GLOMULARUS extends my Protobyte work using three.js. I wanted my first fxhash piece to be noticed. One of the challenges of being a little older than the typical web artist and being away from Twitter since the Trump administration came to power was having my work be found on a very active platform. I wasn’t sure if my history would mean much within the community. Even my experience with Processing was pretty dated; nearly everyone, especially in Web3, now uses P5. I put a fair amount of engineering into GLOMULARUS to enable both the visual impact and also the performance. I was really happy when it came out pretty quickly."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fe7991b41ed1","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Glomularus, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-18904cd01f4dfc8945bee030f969823a025d3759-1324x917-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-18904cd01f4dfc8945bee030f969823a025d3759-1324x917-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"ca0ace4716ea","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fa8d367a9b88","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0a0fa4078c530","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I clearly remember the morning I woke up last year when your ORACLES populated the timeline on Twitter for a couple of days. I remember getting in touch with you and saying that it’s great that the NFT space finally took notice of your art, but that it is interesting that what sparked interest is a PFP project. Do you also consider the Oracles, the first release on Emergent Properties, a platform for long-form generative AI, to be a PFP project?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0d0fdb3a4c87","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f845307989870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: Yes, it’s actually pretty ironic that I kicked off the platform with a PFP project, which it definitely is. I was, early on, a passionate detractor of the whole PFP, pseudonymous meme culture. I realize now that I didn't really get it. I didn’t set out to make the Oracles a PFP, but it just went there, and I embraced it. I’ve come to realize that PFP culture is more about community and support than fraud and rugpulling, though there are both, of course.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3b38a395a102","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"The Oracle, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abdfef9fea5ef6a91eda30d263536808f381a097-2048x2048-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abdfef9fea5ef6a91eda30d263536808f381a097-2048x2048-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"a88cc91a6f44","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"732086058d46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb26a8c9f8390","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The first thing I noticed about the "},{"_key":"fc6476764341","_type":"span","marks":["strong","aa0ffc8d0d28"],"text":"ORACLES"},{"_key":"6d3f7602da32","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" were the references to the medium of painting beginning in the middle ages. Why did you go that far back in art history?"},{"_key":"7deb85095ba8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"aa0ffc8d0d28","_type":"link","href":"https://emprops.ai/projects/the-oracles?page=1&size=51"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b4482bba22d4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b93f6d2d3f760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: It’s just where my heart is in painting, especially over the last decade. I was really lucky to see the Mantegna and Bellini show at the National Gallery in 2018. There is something about the work produced during transitional periods that speaks to me. You see it in the period between the middle ages and the early Renaissance in Giotto, Masaccio, Mantegna, etc. The work has a charged tension that you don’t quite see in high Renaissance work, where the artists are perhaps in more control and showing off. There is a will and determination driving the work during transitional periods that is extremely moving. You see it in Cezanne and early Cubism, as well as later in Abstract Expressionism, in painters like De Kooning, Hofmann, and Mitchell. This somehow feels akin to the period we’re living in now, where technology is slowly getting more deeply integrated, but we’re still distinct from it, with an interesting tension between the fear of the unknown and a compulsion to embrace or absorb it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1c78cbae634e","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"a7928425a678","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28be58b0fee3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"NFTs have shown me the potential of a more integrated path. I never thought I’d be able to put together my passion and practice with ‘any’ real compensation. I always assumed it would require too much compromise or sacrifice.\" – Ira Greenberg"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"blockquote"}]},{"_key":"5bcb21d589c4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"195e8a6349cd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"09c876b403640","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What have NFTs changed for you? And are there any lessons you have learnt?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b3ed9f1a55d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05b682827aeb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: NFTs have shown me the potential of a more integrated path. I never thought I’d be able to put together my passion and practice with ‘any’ real compensation. I always assumed it would require too much compromise or sacrifice.\n\nThe NFT space has also taught me to be more expansive and inclusive in my thinking about art. My painting education was very narrow and, I imagine, not all that different from going to seminary to become a priest. It was a highly specialized education and subculture, requiring an unspoken commitment to asceticism or being thought of as a sell-out. And anyone making work outside of these strict bounds was dismissed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f0d52b6ecfb0","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Fossil: Protobytes Series, Code, 2004.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7f1fcb0f9a0e4f13a4d2624810847d727b0f0412-800x479-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7f1fcb0f9a0e4f13a4d2624810847d727b0f0412-800x479-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"aaa717f69793","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5c959fc9da0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6cc07339e3ea0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are a professor of creative computation. What are the first things you teach your students?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e136124af0ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e788b01f12940","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: It’s all about coding literacy. Until I learned to properly code, I was hacking at things and not able to directly touch the material of computation. It’s like living in a foreign country and never developing fluency in the native tongue. Historically, in digital art programs, students never developed coding literacy, mostly because there was no one to teach them. Part of the reason I wrote the first Processing book was to try to improve this situation. I tried to write a book that spoke to artists and showed them both a path to coding literacy and why it’s worth taking the time to develop it.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9a4a6f503a1d","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"a25f2bce3c4f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fccc3157c125","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"In my experience, humans are most creative when they are improvising and solving problems with some risk or loss involved. When you can undo or redo ad nauseam or be assured that every AI hand will have five perfectly formed fingers, that risk goes away, as does the chance to synthesize new, original solutions.\" – Ira Greenberg"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"blockquote"}]},{"_key":"6b8e8e2a4106","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"87de2b08a857","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98dddeaf48470","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Where do you see the future of art and artificial intelligence? Do you think, at some point, creating work with AI will be as normal and common as painting with a brush?"},{"_key":"d38285fe99eb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7df6672d5de0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"03c2a7002cc80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: For me personally, the best version of AI may have already been developed. Already there are new versions of Stable Diffusion that I like less than the earlier ones. The problems engineers and developers are trying to solve in AI will likely bring greater uniformity and predictability. From an engineering and product perspective, this makes sense. However, as a chaotic, generative medium for creative practice, it’s highly problematic. Twenty years ago, some of us began coding to subvert the software application interface and error correction algorithms (undo/redo). These software innovations eliminated generative and expressive potential (human creative innovations).\n\nIn my experience, humans are most creative when they are improvising and solving problems with some risk or loss involved. When you can undo or redo ad nauseam or be assured that every AI hand will have five perfectly formed fingers, that risk goes away, as does the chance to synthesize new, original solutions.\n\nIn regard to \"normal and common,\" I wouldn’t be surprised if more people are already making art with AI than with paint."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"204481f8512e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Realm of the Oracles: Sea Grails Released.067, AI, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2c4d8f8b0266d15c3263654b2665bc1af0e31fdb-512x512-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2c4d8f8b0266d15c3263654b2665bc1af0e31fdb-512x512-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e1c7be4380ef","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"13f0c385d47c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-496357343498","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"81e5818d9f7b","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"2ccd6cf98807","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"44028cc7-bc08-4a17-ac27-19d5353804f5","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"0e13964af2ea","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"3e3e85e0ed45","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bd69cd39-8b18-4427-a9b0-7608a93e7f63","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"51030d6d852c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"96de8287-f82c-4c74-ba75-9bc544d18097","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-03-15T11:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"With a background in classical art history and a pioneering spirit for the matter of computer science, Ira Greenberg has been feverishly creating in the fields of painting and coding and has worked as a creative director and art and computer science professor. He has been experimenting with creative coding and generative art long before NFTs gained momentum. With works like ORACLES and GLOMULARUS, he has taken the NFT space by storm. \n\nIra Greenberg discusses his extraordinary career with Anika Meier.\n","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"anika-meier-in-conversation-with-ira-greenberg"},"store":null,"subtitle":"GENERATIVE AI AND CREATIVE CODING","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abdfef9fea5ef6a91eda30d263536808f381a097-2048x2048-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"IRA GREENBERG: CRACKING THE CODE"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"585acf308d0a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-04-06T14:25:24Z","_id":"4d723ae3-5e0e-4a8d-bb74-235c14e913bb","_rev":"Xqt2Uc6NNYkZYwoUn6iacf","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-11-11T20:19:00Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-011d9d9b7e02e31e743c1a7ba28dce4da912f06a-720x405-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"68edcf9c52b1","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"fd733af60650","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8c3622fb03ff","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"What actually is generative AI? Why is AI the future? And how do you select artists for a new platform? In conversation with Anika Meier, the artist Ira Greenberg and his two co-founders at Emergent Properties, Emil and Sandy Corsillo, talk about generative AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e1fedb8f108b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8cbf65b63b590","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I remember well a dinner in 2022 during Art Basel. Present were art collectors who had not really come into contact with digital art before. So soon we were chatting excitedly and very soon agigated about NFTs. They said that everything that can be found there is bad. \"Where?,\" I asked them. \"On OpenSea,\" they said almost in unison. I then asked if they liked all the music on Spotify and how they would go about their search on OpenSea. \"Click and scroll,\" they said."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cc1a95d733a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4d6f927cdc5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"If you don't spend your days on Twitter, you basically don't know what's going on in the NFT space. There, you hear about drops and new platforms. And if you are not on NFT Twitter constantly, you might feel like the group of art collectors: you don't know where to start to actually find what you might find good. I woke up one morning late last year and my Twitter timeline was full of THE ORACLES NFTs by Ira Greenberg. The platform was new: Emergent Properties. I DMed him on Twitter and that's how our conversation about Generative AI started. Emil and Sandy Castillo, co-founders of Emergent Properties, now joined the conversation. In the meantime 4 projects have been published."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9ecdcd18419b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9cf9223d7c1f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f68fa88650650","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Emil and Sandy Corsillo, you co-founded Emergent Properties together with Ira Greenberg. Why was it important for you to get an artist on board?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1e6806f4e624","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"81d969927a820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Emil Corsillo: To answer your question of why it was important, Ira brings a history of working in the generative space long before blockchain, when artists knew with certainty that there was no money in it. So having him on the team really cements our commitment to placing generative and AI artwork in its proper historical context. In Israel, we have a primary source with a flawless pedigree, and we have great creative chemistry!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ffc5e3ca86b0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ffc5e3ca86b00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Sandy Corsillo: Well, technically, we already had an artist on board, with Emil, but I know what you mean. The relationship with Ira began with us chasing him to do a project with us. We loved his work, and we really viewed him as a pioneer in the space, so there was a ton of respect. Then, after working together, he and Emil really gelled. It was one of those things that just kind of made sense right away."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"867bb0f09e88","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"299035a423ad0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c180bc43ddc7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b8321fcae601","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"44ecb4e31a23","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM:"},{"_key":"e5b51f5a9f14","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"0164dc88af060","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Ira Greenberg, what excites you about working on Emergent Properties?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6f29d7749372","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2d0ab41af32a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ira Greenberg: "},{"_key":"3067a3f14e690","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At first, I was just excited to work with Emil and Sandy and also with our other partners, Victor and Luis, and their development teams. I really didn’t know what we were going to do other than build something in Web 3. As mentioned before, Emil and I just clicked right away. I just felt I could be myself around him and the team with this almost instant understanding. We actually grew up across the Long Island Sound (a decade apart) from one another. There seems to be some unspoken familiarity, or maybe this is all in my head."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a5af62cfb84f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a5af62cfb84f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I remember my wife saying one day, \"This is what you always wanted—to work with a team of other super talented people with a shared vision.\" I think the other aspect of EmProps is that art really is king. We’re not just a company trying to make money in the art market, but we really want to promote great art and artists and move the needle, especially in regard to AI’s connection to the most serious creative practice."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1ed2ef8d3c4b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ed2ef8d3c4b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d076178efdbe","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"BEASTS by Ira Greenberg on Emergent Properties, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d1652bc5448d760df2371190fc49a242f5032f92-720x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d1652bc5448d760df2371190fc49a242f5032f92-720x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"cdf72e05f41f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a26305db885c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"925352e412e40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What does Emergent Properties stand for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d2a3baf39d5e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"251fac2c565f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SC: Emergent Properties was a name I came up with when I was trying to describe a platform that would enable work that I couldn’t fully envision but knew would be transformative. The idea was: build the tool, and then the magic will emerge. True to this origin, we exist to experiment with technical and creative innovation and then bear witness to what emerges."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e419a5ba6538","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"40f5bf56e1d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f21b1ea28f380","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Emergent Properties is the first generative AI platform. Why do you think is it important to combine generative art and artificial intelligence?\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2a43c8bfd94b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f5b6763265af0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EC: The thing about AI image generation is that it’s never perfectly predictable, and its inner workings are mysterious. At a high level, we know how it works, but we still can’t perfectly predict the outcomes. So you end up with an art-making process that is very iterative and dependent on trial and error. This process can create extreme frustration, but it can also lead to magical discoveries."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a0dd93092e62","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f0a75b83f0d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So, in a sense, the process of creating art with AI tools is already long-form, but just not in a structured, controlled way. Marrying long-form generative processes with AI art tools allows the artist to capture that process and embrace the elements of discovery, chance, and nuanced iterative outputs. Each output becomes a moment in the creation process that is witnessed by the artist and collector / viewer together."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c7ee068d1489","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"067041f0c5c9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9ae7c1a3974c","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are some of the technical challenges and limitations?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"17f517ae6039","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"841577b4733c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SC: There are challenges and limitations from a platform standpoint—getting the thing to work as intended but also creatively. One of the biggest technical limitations is time. Most generative mints provide somewhat instant feedback to the collector. This is because the artwork’s code can run on the user’s browser or machine. For EmProps, we are using massive servers that are running software that isn’t available in a user’s browser, so instant feedback isn’t available.\n\nBut as we have moved forward with multiple collections under our belt, we have begun to see this as a benefit in some ways. The outputs are generated by our pipeline and revealed one at a time, so that everyone witnesses the reveal together. In this way, EmProps mints are closer to a communal event, like going to a movie or a show, in which the audience is all seeing the same thing at the same time. Going forward, we really want to play off this by creating better and better viewing experiences. The BEASTS exhibition at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin in March 2023 is an example of us moving in that direction.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fb9003cfad5c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"THE ORACLES by Ira Greenberg on Emergent Properties, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4a83366ed5492c588b32eea25e1e251bab1eb2cb-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4a83366ed5492c588b32eea25e1e251bab1eb2cb-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"7caebd8bb205","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3a1306ab8d3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28070a7841560","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The first release on Emergent Properties was THE ORACLES by Ira Greenberg. Why did you decide to launch the platform with a PFP project that is based on the history of art?"},{"_key":"89fb1e24495c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d7abf185ff8f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5413279aff4e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SC: The plan from the very beginning was for Ira to launch the first collection on the platform and Emil the second. The funny thing is that Ira wasn’t thinking about it as a PFP. My recollection is that he was, somewhat ironically, trying to use AI to return to his roots in painting and to evoke Renaissance imagery and style. We call it a PFP now, but THE ORACELS was more of a portrait study than anything else. It was really Emil who pushed Ira to lean into the PFP thing. I guess it was a double nod to Renaissance portraiture and Web3 PFP mania."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5e41692b4902","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e70dc6ea3bad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"265facc2ab66","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you choose the artist you work with? Meaning, what are criteria for good generative art and for good AI art?"},{"_key":"069ee6eb5f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6d4d481f55e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"14423ce70b10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EC: The process at the moment is pretty instinctual: we reach out to artists who we like and who we want to work with. If they share our vision, then the next step is to introduce them to our tools and try to figure out how we will achieve the vision they lay out. For some artists, this is going to require building new tools or changing the ones we have, but that is really the best way for us to decide what to build next."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e3ed09cd6de0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4461cb84c1d8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: The one thing about AI artwork is that it can be a maddening process of trial and error. This isn’t that much different than traditional generative art; however, it is as if you have a partner you are working with, who has their own idea of what they want, and you just need to work with them, not against them. That’s all to say that the best artists for EmProps are people who love experimentation and don’t get discouraged by early failure. The biggest difference between that and traditional generative artists is that the tools are so new that there is really no expertise yet. As a result, we really choose people based on their past work and don’t really worry about their experience. We are lucky to have a great team that can work with them to fill in any technical gaps."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b9034fa21029","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"MUSES by Danielle King on Emergent Propeties, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e5e2422e5d50cd2da8d82c48f78b04e08ea0c615-1392x1392-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e5e2422e5d50cd2da8d82c48f78b04e08ea0c615-1392x1392-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"cedfdd024b1f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ea8f16ad402f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0c81023ad551","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are we still at the beginning when it comes to artists working with AI to create art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fc3ed3143c0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b87c2d3ea14","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EC: I think we are at the beginning of the beginning. The reality is that we have no idea what is coming, either with the core technology or with artists learning to use it to its fullest potential. The one risk I see here is that the exponential nature of the technology may put artists in a perpetual state of playing catch up. That so much of their energy and focus will need to be spent on learning the tools that there won’t be much left for pure creativity. One goal we have is to build better and better tools for our artists to use as a way of helping them focus on the artwork itself."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"42d6dd5caa7b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1f889ff01044","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2f756c0c2370","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What does \"curated platform\" exactly mean? How do you work with artists on a drop?"},{"_key":"1c1cda6565bf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"01146f3f1f14","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af291f1ed806","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EC: Curated means that we select the artists and work with them on their projects. We decided to go with a curated model for practical and qualitative reasons. Practically, it is expensive to run the machines we are using, and they have limited bandwidth. If we structured it as an open platform, it would be prohibitively expensive for us.\n\nIn the other sense, we feel that AI art in general is extremely well suited for curation. Basically, the barrier to entry is non-existent, and the process can be opaque. This means anyone can make artwork, but determining quality can be hard. When we take a subjective stance about what we are looking for and say this is our idea of great work, we make a small impact in contextualizing and validating the world of AI art.\n\nBut we don’t want to be a monolith or the only voices in the room. Our plans, which we plan to start implementing in the near future, include: establishing a curatorial committee with rotating members; setting up community curation initiatives; inviting guest curators to the platform; and implementing a “pay it forward” model where each artist who mints a project on the platform is asked to invite an artist whose work they love."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6096191c8dab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c910d29e1b44","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SC: The funny thing is that we are curating the collection both by selecting artists and working with them on their work. But in a sense, we are totally giving up curatorial control when the mint starts. At that point, it is all up to the AI. That can be a scary but amazingly fun experience."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"74a60153788d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"GHOST IN THE MACHINE by Emil Corsillo on Emergent Properties, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ad0845df98e28c00ee0ea8470fcc2a2fe6030661-1050x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ad0845df98e28c00ee0ea8470fcc2a2fe6030661-1050x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"d34c0c6a1e69","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c07c43552f8a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f9a835fffdf30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you plan to push what is technically possible one step further with each drop?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"596d32ece670","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6936a11b4a83","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EC: We plan to continuously push the envelope and drive ambitious technical experimentation, but we won’t announce a totally new technical achievement with every single drop. And based on the way our technology works, many of these new technical achievements will build on what came before."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"accbf285575b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"233028066c91","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b9aadfc485d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Ira, after THE ORACLES it’s BEASTS. How do you start working on such a project when it comes to creating art with AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1fa1119f719e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3261db0d43ef0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: I start it the same way as I do with all my other work, regardless of medium. I usually begin with a vague hunch or impulse to try something. I don’t have (nor do I want to have) too much of a formed idea when I begin. I need to find my way emergently as I start making. Almost any other approach tends to feel contrived and too constrictive. Because the AI is generative with, in a sense, parameterized randomization, it feels very similar to me to creative coding and also to drawing and painting. In many ways, AI is the perfect medium for a painter-coder, especially one who likes moving as quickly as I do\n\nI just keep iterating, and eventually stuff happens. It’s often not directly related to the initial impulse, but I’ve learned as I’ve gotten older to remain somewhat detached from the output, almost as an observer. Occasionally, really cool shit happens, and I post it to Twitter. Anika, I know you’ve witnessed this manic posting.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3ebe16d60531","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cffc9f192052","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5093f3c6629","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When do you know a project is finished and you need to let go?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3b960903379a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"27967c560cfc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"IG: I let go when I start repeatedly screwing it up. I won’t end a project when I get bored or lose interest; I’ll end it when I can’t really push it any further. I’ve always been this way: push, push, push. Painting used to get me in a lot of trouble when I was younger. My determination to make a great painting often interfered with my ability to make even a good one. It took me a long time to learn to see what was happening in the work, independent of my conscious desires. This remains a constant ledge to navigate, a BEAST within dynamic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d67f35086e29","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"BEASTS by Ira Greenberg on EmergentProperties, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5af5e1c5dcc27d8cdbbda9e1108796a2b7bc67fe-720x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5af5e1c5dcc27d8cdbbda9e1108796a2b7bc67fe-720x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"c052d20422f2","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"333222419b3d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1264da74b8050","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Ira Greenberg"},{"_key":"ba03ce2458b2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" has an eclectic background combining art and computer science. Well known for having written the first book on the Processing programming language, Processing: Creative Coding and Computational Art (Berkeley, CA: friends of ED, 2007), Greenberg has led the way for the present and future of creative computing and AI art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4154ac3f7976","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"763c76febf2e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Greenberg holds a B.F.A. from Cornell University and a M.F.A. from the University of Pennsylvania."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e9eaa67c93da","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38ef51f2961f","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Ira Greenberg's solo show BEASTS is on view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin until 16 April 2023. In collaboration with Emergent Properties. The BEASTS by Ira Greenberg are available on "},{"_key":"daf279230fb1","_type":"span","marks":["em","a6d443051277"],"text":"Emergent Properties"},{"_key":"5bd8ee5a3993","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":". Edition: 1000, 48 Tez. "}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"a6d443051277","_type":"link","href":"https://emprops.ai/projects/beasts?page=1&size=51"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0351e24cdd37","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-496827367690","_type":"reference"},"teaserItems":[{"_key":"e0726a3220ad","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-496357343498","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"dd4be04ed204","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"247591db5c56","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"44028cc7-bc08-4a17-ac27-19d5353804f5","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"3232ef73d92e","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"109a6e5177ad","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bd69cd39-8b18-4427-a9b0-7608a93e7f63","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-04-06T22:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"What actually is generative AI? Why is AI the future? And how do you select artists for a new platform? In conversation with Anika Meier, the artist Ira Greenberg and his two co-founders at Emergent Properties, Emil and Sandy Corsillo, talk about generative AI.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"emergent-properties-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"GENERATIVE ART AND ARTIFICIAL INTELLIGENCE","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5af5e1c5dcc27d8cdbbda9e1108796a2b7bc67fe-720x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"EMERGENT PROPERTIES: EXPERIMENTING WITH TECHNICAL INNOVATION"},"videoUrl":null}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"4d8757d4c062","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":null,"teaserItems":[{"_key":"51d93d09f2bc","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-03-14T09:18:08Z","_id":"bd69cd39-8b18-4427-a9b0-7608a93e7f63","_rev":"mTAtf2c9stZzmOxZwzhaSY","_type":"exhibition","_updatedAt":"2024-02-28T21:25:31Z","endDate":"2023-04-16T16:00:00.000Z","modules":[{"_key":"2701aa694046","_type":"moduleSlider","slides":[{"_key":"8cbf84d67b73","_type":"slide","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-22d11f431a98d1fcc04a195e86f94de778570970-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-22d11f431a98d1fcc04a195e86f94de778570970-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"pretitle":"29 MARCH - 16 APRIL 2023 | BERLIN","title":"IRA GREENBERG: BEASTS"}]},{"_key":"a0342e031951","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"7657024d5b2d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8c3e29e204330","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EXPANDED.ART is pleased to present BEASTS by IRA GREENBERG in partnership with EMERGENT PROPERTIES on view at the gallery from 29 MARCH to 16 APRIL. The exhibition will include an expansive universe created by the artist‘s code and generative AI, and drawings exploring generative systems by hand.\n\n\"My life is pretty much controlled by beasts, it always has been. I engage with beasts directly and very physically in my space: cats, dogs, mice, pack rats, horses, birds, squirrels, dragonflies, bees, cockroaches, fire ants. Other interactions are less tangible: parasites, bacteria, viruses."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6318ddda44fc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6318ddda44fc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Some beasts are not physical at all. Yet their presence is equally impactful (maybe more so). When I think about my family history and stories of urgent emigration, fleeing war zones with protracted dislocations, I’m reminded of other kinds of beasts, those who impact outer and inner lives."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e3e012687cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b59ab0cef8b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This Generative AI long-form project explores beasts as both physical manifestations of nature’s generative power and the beasts lurking within, including those within the collective unconscious.\"\n\n– Ira Greenberg\n\nWith an eclectic background combining art and computer science, Ira Greenberg has been a painter, programmer, computer science professor, and author. Currently, Greenberg is Director of the Center of Creative Computation and Professor at SMU, with a joint appointment in the Meadows School of the Arts and the Lyle School of Engineering. He wrote the first major language reference on the Processing programming language, and two subsequent creative coding texts.\n\n"},{"_key":"b022131f3f7d","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":""}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"756b79266db6","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/articles/anika-meier-in-conversation-with-ira-greenberg"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"95d1d4572993","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"4b66b439d530","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"74056c9bfa520","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"IRA GREENBERG: BEASTS"},{"_key":"0e978be5f33c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n29 MARCH - 16 APRIL \nOPENING: 29 MARCH | 6-9 PM CET "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b6961ce52391","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"57bd0b30d266","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"EXPANDED.ART"},{"_key":"cb01f828c4d5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nFriedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin\nMonday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"58e0dc57b929","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cf0f8a04b9b7","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NFT DROP | IRA GREENBERG: BEASTS\n29 MARCH\n"},{"_key":"0da838ff8bcf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Edition: 1.000\nPrice: 48 XTZ\nAllow list: 7-7.30 PM CET\nPublic mint: 7.30 PM 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Franke, Hein Gravenhorst, Ira Greenberg, Samia Halaby, Heinrich Heidersberger, Karl Martin Holzhäuser, Roger Humbert, Gottfried Jäger, Mario Klingemann, Zach Lieberman, LoVid, Jonas Lund, Jennifer and Kevin McCoy, Lee Mullican, Frieder Nake, Piter Pasma, Aaron Penne, Manuel Rossner, Marcel Schwittlick, Travess Smalley, Marina Zurkow"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"078e1038d3a3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c21b9ae3c84d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"\nABOUT ELEMENTUM.ART\n"},{"_key":"e4dec322a8eb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nOver the past years, ELEMENTUM.ART established curated programming with a particular focus on pioneering, historically relevant NFTs created by the great visionaries of the modern and contemporary era. 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Artists employing formal ideas of abstraction in their codes and algorithms are pioneering compositions that take generative art to new horizons."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"41eb1ad5d245","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"85fc8a4f55750","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The origins of abstract art are debated, with some tracing its roots to ancient Islamic art and others locating its beginnings in the early 20th century Western art movement. During the years leading up to World War I, artists such as Delaunay, Kandinsky, Malevich, and Tatlin embraced abstraction in their practice. While Kandinsky is often credited as the first artist to create purely abstract, non-representational paintings, his work was later challenged by the abstract art of Swedish artist Hilma af Klint, whose focus on spirituality differed from Kandinsky's logical theories. The emergence of the de Stijl group in the Netherlands and the Dada group in Switzerland further expanded the spectrum of abstract art, leading to what some consider the two golden eras of the movement: 1912-1925 and 1947-1970."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b59f6b380be5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ae0763be8c310","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since the late 1950s, a group of artists have been utilising algorithmic procedures to create art. Early pioneers in this field include Herbert W. Franke and Vera Molnar, whose works are featured in this exhibition. In recent years, there has been an eruption of abstract works within the digital realm, where artists are increasingly employing code to create generative works. This has led to the emergence of a new, vibrant movement and community that has yet to be fully explored within the broader context of art history."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"157beb62a6b1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b2105f3795b80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Artists are using algorithms and codes to create formal ideas of abstraction in their compositions, pushing the boundaries of the movement and inviting viewers to appreciate the works for their aesthetic effects and compositions alone. This experience is similar to the enjoyment of music, where pure patterns of form, color, and line create a powerful impact."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d34037784a4e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"84884a415cd3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"By exploring the intersection of art and technology through the works of these innovative artists, GENERATIVE ABSTRACTION AND BEYOND invites the viewer to consider the ways in which these fields interact and influence one another."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1cdcb281c022","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"c58b8ebf7320","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f13b95b88c6d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"ARTISTS:"},{"_key":"50c576ca448f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Herbert W. Franke, Lee Mullican, Heinrich Heidersberger, Anna Lucia, Kim Asendorf, Banz & Bowinkel, Anna Carreras, Anna Beller, Ira Greenberg, Iskra Velitchkova, Jonas Lund, Leander Herzog & Richard Nadler, Aaron Penne, Lisa Orth, Marcel Schwittlick, Manuel Rossner, Ivona Tau, Julien Espagnon, Damjanski, and Olga Fradina. 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Lichty is an internationally recognized technological artist, writer, curator, educator, and activist who has investigated how media shapes how humanity perceives reality since the late 1980s. Lichty is known for his solo work, collaborations with his partner, Negin Ehtesabian, and collective work as part of the activist groups RTMark, The Yes Men, the principal of the virtual performance group Second Front, and collaborator with Pocha Nostra, Critical Art Ensemble, Terminal Time, Morehshin Allahyari, Cao Fei, and Techspressionism.com."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f27b8c7084ba","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fd1d765791f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As a writer and editor, Lichty edited the New Media Journal Intelligent Agent for ten years, published by Whitney Digital Art Curator Christiane Paul. He is also published by numerous presses, including MIT, Oxford, and Blackwell. He has books and chapters with the Institute for Networked Culture in Amsterdam. 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"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5f9e0d300ccd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c60c3a264b96","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"To this end, he has also been featured in the Whitney, Venice, Maribor, Yokohama, and Melbourne Design Biennials and shown at SIGGRAPH, ISEA.l."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"18c0f58c7c54","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"de9dd08eb703","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0a0235aeb436","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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NFT DROP: 22 AUGUST 2024 | 6 PM CET
\nPIXEL GRAIN by Patrick Lichty is a collection of 128 photographs taken with a wristwatch camera. In the early 2000s, long before the iPhone, Patrick Lichty documented the world secretly with a low-resolution wristwatch camera, a Casio WQV-1. The photographs revealed a candid, often uncanny landscape of pixelated reality. Does the digital eye see more clearly than our own? Do these pixels remind us of film grain?
\nLichty explores reality in the early digital age, from Ground Zero to eccentric oil wells decorated like butterflies.
\nPart of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
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Born in Akron, Ohio, in 1962, Lichty's upbringing was immersed in art, technology, and science fiction. His career spans over three decades, during which he has established himself as a media artist, writer, curator, designer, and educator."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c6dbe2412de3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cf948edc6f14","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Lichty's artistic practice primarily focuses on exploring the impact of media and technology on society and individual perception. He has a particular interest in augmented reality, virtual reality, artificial intelligence AI, NFTs. His work critically examines how media shapes human perceptions of reality, particularly at the intersection of the virtual and physical worlds."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7b3940e18ea7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4f04c33727b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Patrick is widely published and was the Editor-in-Chief of Intelligent Agent magazine for over a decade during the 2000s and 2010s with Publisher Christiane Paul."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7803717f2384","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e1e7cf10e06","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lichty is especially recognized for his contributions as a principal member of the virtual reality performance art group Second Front and as the animator for the activist group RTMark/The Yes Men. His diverse skills in digital intermedia include proficiency in printmaking, kinetics, video production, generative music, and neon art. Additionally, Lichty's role as a media \"reality\" artist and theorist reflects his deep engagement with how media and mediation influence our understanding of the environment."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7c82f43b24bf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dfc865f143c2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Apart from his artistic endeavors, Lichty has also made significant contributions as an educator and holds a position at Winona State University. His accolades include being a CalArts/Herb Alpert Fellow and an exhibitor at the Whitney Biennial.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Patrick Lichty discusses how he got involved in the early net art and post-Internet art scene, how Roman Verostko inspired him to create plotter drawings, digital minimalism, and taking photos with a wristcam in the early 2000s."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2584245cdaf0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ee7a083847b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1cadd13a0a620","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Patrick, your name comes up often when speaking with early computer art pioneers. When did you get involved in computer art and computer graphics?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a0b125d41395","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1d07df40b9970","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Patrick Lichty: My parents bought me a personal computer when they were first available in the United States in 1978. I was on the internet as early as 1983 and became involved in digital art in the mid-1980s in online communities like CompuServe, where I made animated GIFs. However, back in the 1970s, I made images with code referring to science fiction movies, like TRON. My obsession with computers led my parents to believe I should be an engineer, but what was important was that I was drawing on the screen, and this is something my parents didn't grasp the importance of."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"386fb96bcfaf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"712058dddd670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The idea of history in digital art is a strange thing; for most, the late 1990s is ancient, but I think it's important to know that I got started in the 70s as a teenager, then have been interested in how culture and technology shape one another, and to this day, I weave together ideas that were being worked with as far back as the 1970s, or even the dawn of the 19th century, if you count working in Jacquard (I currently do AI-based Jacquard weavings as well). My attention to art history spans much of my work, even the idea of low resolution and film grain in PIXEL GRAIN. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"25332df07815","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"37d004176d9c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I have been intensely interested in art, culture, and technology for three decades and have sought to explore the possibilities in new genres whenever possible."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"36bf46314bd8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, Selfie from Pixel Grain, lo-fi digital wristwatch photography (Casio WQV-1) 2002-3.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b4bd2b29d1c5e5641a0fae02e4f16988cd0ff0fb-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b4bd2b29d1c5e5641a0fae02e4f16988cd0ff0fb-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9cede18ee7f0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7be60f67c1b3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6e23c5e14d60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you remember the first time you’ve tried to create art with a computer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"66230e5550ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2b18c999d5ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: My earliest work was naive, consisting of fan/science fiction and derivative art, but there was neon art that gained some recognition. However, due to health concerns associated with that medium, I transitioned to working with traditional and digital media. One of my first projects was a body of 24 watercolors created by reading nothing but Kandinsky's CONCERNING THE SPIRITUAL IN ART and POINT AND LINE TO PLANE as a basis of inspiration. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"74a2b0ac7353","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80e136d81f90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The paintings had my sensibilities but looked like I had taken a class with Kandinsky. Although I was working with traditional and digital techniques, I worked to translate my traditional skills to technology, using programs like PC Paintbrush, Fractal Design Painter, and CorelDRAW and finding ways to try to output my work. I found Rick De Coyte and his Silicon Gallery in Philadelphia, and ironically, I found him again in Dubai in 2018."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d72cd82c2260c9c9c64364703ffdf2d4","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, Haymarket Riot Machine 2, Digital Video, 1996-8.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b794ff21231d37a22c27808ab79759212243a0fc-2352x1554-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b794ff21231d37a22c27808ab79759212243a0fc-2352x1554-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"b28a889c0750","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9433e4c1028c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"13ca5718ec010","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What do you consider your first artwork that you wouldn’t call naive yourself?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d85959097a7f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"494aca9fc51a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: By the mid-1990s, I started making images I didn't find embarrassing or overly derivative, which were early memes for theorists Arthur and Marilouise Kroker. Also, by that time, I knew people in the cyberpunk community, like the publishers of FringeWare Review, Mondo 2000, and Bruce Sterling. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"25d642c2f74c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0586df9a1ab","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Close to that time, I also began making rock videos with my collaborator Jon Epstein based on visual sociology and media culture. They were for our band/media group, Haymarket Riot, and the videos were the Machine and Web series, which are still online. They are pastiches of video and 3D animations I did that were a distant relative of the media group, Emergency Broadcast Network. They were also a culture hack, as Epstein and I inserted these into 37 graduate sociology programs as media texts. This culture hacking led to my work as part of RTMark and The Yes Men."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4ce54dcd5d44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6cd2e52f0fb90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the mid-90s, I got on the Thingist and Rhizome lists, where I became an adjunct member of the New York digital art community, although I lived in North Canton, Ohio. I was lucky that there were some other great artists like Gregory Little (who had taught Liz Phair, Cory Arcangel, and members of Paper Rad at Oberlin College). He is a graduate of the Yale Art Program and taught digital art at a regional branch of Kent State University. Another great friend and colleague was a local Beatnik digital artist with a great studio named Jerry Domokur, who died about 15 years ago. They gave me local inspiration."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"84496137d078","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0a16474cc6760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Internationally, through mailing lists like Rhizome, Thingist, Spectre, and more, I met the net.art community, including longtime colleagues like Joseph Delappe, Christiane Paul, UBERMORGEN Vuc Cosic, Lev Manovich, the McCoys, and more. If I became internationally known, this is probably the period when it happened."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1c7213e650bb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b9a0b62c9570","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"An odd incident is that I was in Minneapolis from 1994 to 1998, where I fell in love with plotter drawing after making friends with Roman Verostko, although I would not make much machine drawing until 2003."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"73c6e1170c03eb572a3b6480beea09b4","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, rtmark lichty, RTMark Group Photo, 1998. Copyright: Patrick Lichty.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2372b869c99de5e38b1e8853912ef01440d4b8ae-541x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2372b869c99de5e38b1e8853912ef01440d4b8ae-541x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"4693a76f4f44","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"256b3cb752df","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"84ffb14cd9f50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What made you fall in love with plotter drawings?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9ea643e5c9e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"429753be94730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: In Verostko's studio, he showed me how he made marks with his algorithms. These days, I am much more knowledgeable about how he generates his shapes, but what impressed me was that he was taking plotter pens and making custom ones with casein inks and even mounting a large Chinese brush to plot single curves. And these were often on fine papers I had not imagined suitable for digital creation. I wanted to be his student, but this could have been more practical. I would return to the idea of robotic painting about a decade later."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e0885be44f21","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"71ca3f7bd2870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Also, during 1994 to 2008, when I lived intermittently in Minneapolis, there was another artist, Bruce Shapiro, a doctor who had become disillusioned with the imprecision and greed of the medical profession to take up robotic metal sculpture. He had his own XY tables with plasma torches and grinders, and I made a piece called FALLEN MAN. He would develop this love of motion control to start Sisyphus Industries, where he creates meditative sand tables."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b9b92219d553","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d8af998bbaca0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Returning to machine drawing, I needed more space and resources to have plotters. Still, in the early 2000s, I began experimenting with small autonomous robots until I found ones to program and have them react to the environment. I had ones that could carry Sumi-e brushes and would wander around a large piece of paper until it encountered a large piece of wood, a trash bin, or anything else I placed in the space, where it would change direction. This repetitive motion would create beautiful abstract patterns. I would experiment with these through the 2000s, most notably with the ROBOTS AND IMAGE MACHINES exhibition at Kent State University in 1999 and ZEN FOR BOT at Barristers' Gallery in New Orleans in 2006–7. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"72927415824b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6f8ad7c1d89f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It was in the 2010s that I would work with plotters. My beginning to work with plotters would lead to solo shows in 2013–15 in New Orleans and New York: RISE OF THE MACHINES (New Orleans) and SENSIBLE CONCEPTS (New York). After that, I moved to the United Arab Emirates, with commissions for the Ministry of Education, the Sheikh Zayed Mosque, and the SIKKA Art Festival."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bf6abfbb7a75","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fb714d843e810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Another interesting point is that I was involved with activism and performance art. I was one of the original RTMark/The Yes Men and was part of events with Guillermo Gomez Pena and the Critical Art Ensemble. My performance background would lead me to a longtime friendship with FLUXUS artist Larry Miller, leading to Al Hansen's daughter and NoWave artist/factory denizen Bibbe Hansen becoming part of my Second Life performance art group, Second Front."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"84cb900983bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d4dce767a7ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There are other notable artists and festivals I've collaborated with, but that takes us up to the mid-2000s and the beginning of the post-internet era."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"afcb0b6ee57a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2f88a6fe9546","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"47f0d4f6ecfe0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As you've just mentioned, you were part of the early net art and post-Internet art scence. How do you define being a pioneer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"92b190605d3c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1e1d7981eea0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: I think there are three definitions. The best and most general definition is someone consistently recognized for their cultural contributions. Second, the SIGGRAPH conference (a global symposium on computer imaging) has a Pioneers program, which is very prestigious and by nomination only, and that is why we use this term in digital art. Last, some people self-define for promotion, which is fair."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"70b9a2432968f3bbfecbe9ca8c7f4e64","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty/Second Front, The Second Supper, Medium, 2007. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-798d940c3fe8501173be946316e6d161cad8cdcb-768x386-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-798d940c3fe8501173be946316e6d161cad8cdcb-768x386-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"89cbdd9b7393","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"562da27370ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b2fd6ac2caf0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you consider yourself a pioneer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1cedfb04f2d1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0cdb6ef987eb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: "},{"_key":"b6a301294158","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Being connected to some deep wells of computer art history, the term has some specific issues. First, calling oneself a \"pioneer\" is like saying you are \"first\" at anything. Someone once told me that to denote a first also presupposes a last, which can be a trap for oneself. However, in the history of art and technology, there are many cases in which \"firsts\" are spurious. Therefore, calling oneself a pioneer is more of a position where one is either given or claims primacy, which I'd like others to judge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"09a4240aaeff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3df815feb070","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But in the end, if I am someone who helped build digital art for what, three decades now, that's probably realistic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2ffa41f2bb0afe4fcc24a8a5dd23d36a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Second Front, Second Front Promo, digital image, 2009. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a29a74cfdb0b5a427c6756541f07fe78e15f673b-1024x983-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a29a74cfdb0b5a427c6756541f07fe78e15f673b-1024x983-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"a40e3fcae2f7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4608b9c60348","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"490c8796e3490","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What was it like to help build digital art for three decades? What were some of the challenges?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b6622f25c116","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b39ef80509a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: "},{"_key":"c7bd0e6c5d83","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I first started this as a lecture on digital art history, and that didn't serve the point I was trying to make. I began with a passion for art, tied to my writing and activism. So, in any of my art, it is a response to an event, a desire to converse about critical issues, explore new techniques, or delve into art history or media culture, all with a dash of irony."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"928147741f95","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b2f5c33c57b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This approach has different meanings over time; in the beginning, I focused more on sociology and art history, then tactical media and critical art, then performance, as in my Second Life performance group, Second Front, and now mixing AI with ancient digital techniques, like Jacquard weaving."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f350924dc03c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b24da95ebe3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45fc8823610e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you have the feeling that this has changed today?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"48f89a816445","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ccbb22244f680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: The main changes are the professionalization of the genre, its integration into art academia and the contemporary art world, and its requisite effects. There is still a great bifurcation between the festival world and the gallery/museum world, and the circulation of capital mainly defines this."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cc0087996d222bd7eec1b2c85a12aad5","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, Architecture of the Latent Space, AI/Jacquard tapestry, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-256f68cd391925576f25600901b25b2827d97ab3-1024x973-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-256f68cd391925576f25600901b25b2827d97ab3-1024x973-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"31efaf597444","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c0165d2aab47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c866893677a30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are both an artist and a writer. Does being an artist influence your writing, and vice versa, because you might have a deeper understanding?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"78ae6bc6878f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"704fa2f627cf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: I am also a curator, with about 15 shows to my credit and essays in books by Christiane Paul, Janet Marstine, and Ho King Kay. Part of this comes from the fact that, thirty years ago, the cultural landscape for digital media essentially did not exist in the contemporary world. By making, curating, and writing, one opens up conversational spaces in which others in the space become familiar with your ideas."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c1258368891c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8de2c3e5d4490","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Consider the books, ART AND THEORY. These volumes are primarily filled with texts by "},{"_key":"8de2c3e5d4491","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"artists"},{"_key":"8de2c3e5d4492","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". Tzara wrote, and Kandinsky wrote. O'Keefe wrote. But I have a wide range and sometimes write about performance studies or sociology. I may diverge from my peers in my broad range of studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2e2463b83467","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b17793fa01760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Curating serves many functions; it allows the curator to create a discursive space to highlight trends, engage critical issues, or allow artists to place themselves in the middle of a point cloud of others or to lift colleagues. It gives the practitioner a space for discussion. I particularly enjoy Robert Filiou's Gallery in a Hat and Hans Ulrich Obrist's early apartment project, especially using the refrigerator. It allows one to create spaces for what they want others to see and for work that they are interested in."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"23af1b99b915","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1fc14ce6d3660","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Being involved in all areas of cultural production is expansive and generous; it isn't so inwardly focused. While it is about one's understanding, it is also about mapping the terrain and clearing space for others. I also greatly respect curators building diverse spaces, and I find my spaces much less necessary in the West; therefore, I focus on media artists outside the West and the Global North these days."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f4a37689cffb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5e1d13c9cc67","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ba00e2a82f8b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you approach working on a new project? How do you decide which medium you’ll use?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fb057ba8d92c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"129c27e7b17c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: Much of this comes from methods based on Visual Sociology and the art of Marcel Duchamp. I observe culture and explore current technology, social justice, society, and art conversations. As a critical artist, a question arises about some aspect of art, myself, or the world I want to explore. I love to explore technologies that feel interesting in terms of their gestural or formal qualities. A third aspect is a consideration of contemporary media art and how it relates to art history. Mixed in with this is frequently a slightly contrarian aesthetic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6c995a89b86f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eac445963ebf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For example, with PIXEL GRAIN, coming from a project called 8 Bits or Less, I had this little Casio WQV-1 wrist watch camera. I began thinking of a panoptic society in which surveillance and sous-veillance (grass-roots observation.) I also think of a quote by Paul Virilio: \"There are eyes everywhere/There is no blind spot left.\" Before Androids and iPhones, I wondered what it meant to have eyes all over us, always watching. Also, what image would I get from my wrist instead of a more formal phone or conventional camera? Having the camera mounted on my wrist gave me a different perspective."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"11470a6838ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"acf3d13eb4be","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Additionally, the fact that the images were generated by the phone (120 x 120 pixels, 16 shades of gray, and highly compressed) meant that the images were crude. The formal nature of these images made me think about the desire for high resolution in digital images, and I wanted to resist this, as the pictures had a charm. Also, the compression had a formal quality that reminded me of film grain and was something I didn't want to correct."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fdce8987faef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e9daad31c2ed0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And lastly, and I am recently more comfortable with this, is my lifelong battle with severe eye issues like cataracts, retinitis pigmentosa, and glaucoma. These have affected my vision throughout my life, and using the wristcam also reflected on this existential state."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1dce5cc82598","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f2241a388a8f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This process is all a diagram of how I approach such a question. I either find an aspect of culture or technology that raises questions; this can come from the overall situation or the effects of technology. I then, as Duchamp said, let the medium follow the idea."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d2aa809af35811af018a708c2a6a78ac","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, Lichty Random Internet Cat 1, generative plotter drawing, 2013. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-32b8ad68bb444b655a7a1f387e08c9ef5522a3b5-1024x1017-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-32b8ad68bb444b655a7a1f387e08c9ef5522a3b5-1024x1017-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"cd1f8537f23a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0c8f76287eef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0bdc7e184b130","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What inspired you to document the world around you with a camera that you, I assume, used secretly?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e9be312c6534","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"53cfc07277c90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: The secrecy was not as covert as you might think; I did not announce it. That was secret for situations like going through LaGuardia security a month after 9/11 or shooting my dentist working on my teeth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7cb997177e1e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3adf5dd099440","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The wristwatch cameras (the Casio WQV-1, 3, and the color WQV-10) reminded me of the little spy cameras I could get as a kid from the novelty company, Johnson Smith, that captured those little moments. It also felt a little rebellious to take photos wherever I wanted at the time, but my intentions were much more innocent than I'd imagined someone would be today—this was the dawn of these devices. Perhaps it was simply wondering what the world would look like from my wrist, much like Stelarc placing a third ear on his arm."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"79caa69d7481","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"86822e6cc05e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e228759c19470","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Today, everyone has a camera on their mobile device in their pocket. We take photos of our food and our pets, of ourselves, and of our daily lives. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fa579bcc164c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2afb9bdf67d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: This is a crucial point; in 2001, this was much less common. These devices were much less universal than in the 2020s. Considering that 2000 was a critical moment for techno culture, digital art, and so on, going around with a wristwatch camera relatively soon after that was a form of creating an artist's existential photo journal of the time. I wanted to record life from that perspective and note the surreal quality of that vantage point."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"67f278ff1d9a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, Milo the Cat from Pixel Grain, lo-fi digital wristwatch photography (Casio WQV-1), 2001-2004..","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-91cb4c26a88bc602d485dfd7ceb9494b2f0b025e-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-91cb4c26a88bc602d485dfd7ceb9494b2f0b025e-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"dffe93777888","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"daa909eb04f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"227536a92a3f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Where were the photographs taken between 2001 and 2004? You seemed to have traveled a lot around that time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"904b2126d596","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"55f6d6aefa9d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: From 2000 to 2004, I lived in Louisiana, mainly in Baton Rouge and New Orleans. I had family in South Central Texas at the time, and as a contemporary artist, you go to New York whenever you can. These places are where I took the bulk of these photographs. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d55ca1f8e9c2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bba8570bb0420","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The photographs I took during that time with my wristwatch camera are almost a documentary of my life as they are artistic. It is a self-documentary of this weird journey called life. We have to live in the moment and pay attention to our surroundings. These destinations were where I happened to be at the time. I respected that I was there and taking the time to notice the exciting and strange things around me."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8dfeccdc74cb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1371ceb298e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"One example is the oil wells decorated with quarterbacks and butterflies in Luling, Texas. That was unlike anything I’ve ever seen and captured the idea that while I may not have an unusual part of me, I find unusual things fascinating."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8e178b48e276","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"18296e365fa10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I love the look and shape of dominoes, if that’s an odd thing to say. When you put them together, they create a beauty and tension that is truly captivating, with geometric shapes that repeat, curve, and form interesting designs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6227c02a1ea5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c698dac21f8e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Lastly, there are the photographs of cats. I’m not ashamed to say that I’m in love with cats, almost to the point of obsession sometimes. Loving animals is one of those supremely human things that ground us when everything seems to be going haywire. Cats are these beautiful little beings who share the ride."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dee663322cd6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f09f82d8c8a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9ccf0bbef1ad0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you remember on which occasions you tended to take photos? For example, there are various photographs from various perspectives of the Brooklyn Bridge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e0981baf8176","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"63992bc187180","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: I knew a lot of Fluxus artists, the art group that Yoko Ono was part of. They taught me that life and art are the same and that everything is a process. I learned that the moment is a work of art. Looking at that with intention is bringing out the beauty in the moment, the strangeness, or the impact."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"42c24ea75f07","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f10aa5714d630","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Instead of being tightly intentional about framing specific images, I would take pictures documenting where I was at the moment. The Brooklyn Bridge images, for example, were taken while I was on the subway, probably on my way to the airport. I found the structures of the bridge incredibly impressive. I wanted to photograph them to show others the amazing things I discovered. Twenty-five years later, I still feel the same way."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ab7aa57f97e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"04695b6196ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was exploring what it means to consider documenting art as a part of life rather than approaching it as a formal photographer who intentionally frames a shot."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b207d2158a6b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1386eea74c3d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"One aspect of living in the digital age is that we often become so obsessed with our destination that we forget to appreciate the journey itself. As I get older, every moment becomes more precious, and when I travel, I make a conscious effort to pay attention to my surroundings. It's truly magical when you think about it. No matter how beautiful or strange a place may be, I have the privilege of standing, sitting, or walking there—and I respect that."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f5d43be97292","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ed91986f40e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4febcdf05200","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you remember the time after 9/11? You took some photos shortly after 9/11 at Ground Zero, for example."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a62de787e265","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e792d0044b730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: I went to NYC in October of 2001 to witness Ground Zero. A friend had a studio on the 42nd floor, a few blocks away. We had lunch, and then I went to the window, and my stomach sank. I was looking down into this massive hole with some pilings sticking up. This hole used to be the World Trade Center. Seeing it on TV is one thing, but looking into the hole changes your life."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a9d1c03fc762","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d7eaface0730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My friend Michael Richards, who was a sculptor with the Lower Manhattan Cultural Council and was in residence there, died in the event. That made seeing that hole even harder."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c0f115a511ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6757e5c44e100","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I wandered the streets, trying to capture the feeling of the place. It was striking to see ribbons and memorials everywhere. There were wooden walls around the site, like any typical New York construction site. While memorials and pictures were on the walls and around the sides, people were just moving around as needed. For me, this didn’t mean that people stopped caring; it just meant that this was not the end of the world. I think that was a very hopeful moment."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d7acd1d029a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"33a3eaa9da620","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In my memories, I also spent a couple of times sitting in Trinity Chapel near Ground Zero. There was a heavy feeling in the air, a mix of grief and loss from what had happened, but there was also a sense that this was a place for healing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"479cbccabd08","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, 9/11 Ground Zero #5 from Pixel Grain, lo-fi digital wristwatch photography (Casio WQV-1), 2001-2004..","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-64d44350cbe6218a300f08fc42292dde46db7ba3-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-64d44350cbe6218a300f08fc42292dde46db7ba3-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"e8af7207e350","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"705d5041118d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6f4a9ad900680","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You documented not only your life but also a world that changed after one of the most tragic events in human history. How did you approach thinking about the final form of this project?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"285019dac228","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a14ee750c10e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: I had been exploring my life through the lens of my wrist for some time when I decided to formalize these observations into a cohesive format. The images worked wonderfully as low-resolution prints and photomosaics (though the photomosaics were never shown)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f7e6f583267b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06af295c799c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Concurrently, I began experimenting with the images as photographs, shooting a series 1.5 seconds apart, which became video clips. These were compiled into 8 BITS OR LESS, the video counterpart to PIXEL GRAIN. Since 8 BITS OR LESS served as the umbrella term, this series of photographs could also be titled 8 BITS OR LESS: PIXEL GRAIN."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"80c7defe9cc0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"662960924da30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Additionally, 8 BITS OR LESS expressed an Arte Povera Digital Minimalism approach to digital photography, as I did not have the resources to afford something like a digital Hasselblad. It explored my fascination with low fidelity in a digital street punk style."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0e1a6c329a2d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"68a171195ace","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ba5631a5eba00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: 8 BITS OR LESS was exhibited in various forms, including at SIGGRAPH in 2003. How did you feel seeing the project in the world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"904f38eb7814","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb6920aa77800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL:"},{"_key":"eb6920aa77801","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The experience I remember most vividly was at SIGGRAPH, the international computer art conference that typically attracts about 6,000 attendees each year. The conceptual project took many forms, all representing my exploration of low-res aesthetics. There were images—both single and collaged (like the rectangular one-meter-wide collages at SIGGRAPH)—as well as videos for festivals and a live performance, which I believe only occurred twice."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b4a24aa0911f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"40296ff855690","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The print versions were showcased at SIGGRAPH, and another set of 49 prints (30 cm each) was featured in a show at Diverse Works called THOUGHT CRIMES. The videos were presented at SIGGRAPH and ISEA 2002 in Nagoya, among other venues."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1daf397fa954","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"85f60abaf83d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I displayed the videos at festivals, they were shown in theaters at full cinematic size. My favorite moments were when the pixels appeared about one foot tall. The Canal Street Projection Project in 2003 was exceptional as well; video art was projected across Canal Street in New Orleans during Mardi Gras onto the buildings on the opposite side. These were large xenon industrial projectors, so the impact was significant. It was incredible to see my cats 40 feet tall on the architecture across the street. Imagine Milo the cat at 40 feet tall on the side of an office building."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f11b23713569","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a748a973303b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4caad4ee31ae0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The photographs are pixelated due to the quality of the camera on the watch. Today, artists create pixel art. For you, the aesthetics weren't a conscious choice; you took what you got from the camera. Has today's culture changed your thoughts about your work from the early 2000s?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fdd7888b3f09","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6eb961398200","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: In a paper I wrote during my master's studies called CAUGHT IN THE GRID"},{"_key":"e6eb961398201","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":","},{"_key":"e6eb961398202","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" which is all about pixel aesthetics, pixels became a choice around 2000, when the resolution was commonly available to the point where one did not have to accept pixelation. I echoed this in another essay called WHY DIGITAL MINIMALISM"},{"_key":"e6eb961398203","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":", "},{"_key":"e6eb961398204","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"a precursor to Glitch, where low resolution, limited palettes, and the like serve as formal constraints to digital formalism. In the latter days, I respect what Rosa Menkman has done with compression aesthetics, where she studied the pixelation of digital image formats. Jon Cates did this with Dirty New Media by taking digital images down to purely black and white, which is notoriously hard to control."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7b0ee296dce3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c6cdecfa6430","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Although that work predates these essays by a few years, they are the root of these ideas, as I would even reproduce even more scaled-down versions of these photos in ceramic tile. I didn't accept what the camera gave me as such; I chose to use what it gave me as raw material."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f584635a4ea0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"45a615a61e92","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"75a7044db1bd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why Digital Minimalism?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b3799ed4f354","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ff8ec90fdcdc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: Digital Minimalism responded to the endless move towards technology, as in higher resolution, faster animation frame rates, more giant machines, and so on. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7fcb76302bb4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fa1405d71ff8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Two ideas fed this: one was an idea to do more with less, like Arte Povera or Punk. The other was a position to regard a deep formalism of the digital down to pixel aesthetics or to create minimal platforms like small chip or microprocessor-driven artworks. In some ways, it reflects my argument that higher-tech digital art, which is more about realism and direct representation of the subject it discusses, decreases the imagination. This area of my work suggests that it is more interesting to leave these gaps or not have that extra resolution in the work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8a71cc2b5491","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Patrick Lichty, Snowstorm from Pixel Grain, lo-fi digital wristwatch photography (Casio WQV-1), 2001-2004..","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-576d5ca1ce86f770f130d62c73fc53bb44759e3d-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-576d5ca1ce86f770f130d62c73fc53bb44759e3d-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"d1f6969d3a42","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"54857fb077a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a55e6ece76490","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Have NFTs changed digital art in a way you hoped digital art would evolve in the post-digital age?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fb3c723b8514","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1ce931a76f00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PL: Probably, or maybe it went beyond what I had been working for in my advocacy of digital art and new media. In the 90s, I aimed to help create spaces where the contemporary art world would hear technological artists and not have them relegated to computer graphics festivals. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ce31687ae8ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7ecd0b14194","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That began with the 2000 Whitney Biennial, then with the rise of objective post-internet art in the mid-2000s. NFTs furthered this by creating provenance for digital media in and of itself, which is essential for the high-art ecosystem. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae6427f5bedc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb3dc7f61228","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NFTs helped digital art develop in ways I see as logical in the collector/gallery/museum ecosystem. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f9d9183a15c1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"16a56b9c285f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"What comes next? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"25f391811e16","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db9905ed60b9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Perhaps next-generation forms of blockchain migration and conservation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e0f9900cf7b3","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"ffd7f18cab16","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"4b0f5550-c3a2-4171-ae23-059c17e4ddcf","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"4bdae99d87d6","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"6601014e281c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-528420012298","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"154b11a5913f","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"1e99fed7e86e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"c0a682d1-762e-4d22-a194-2f0ec5043355","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"09746eb1b603","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-08-14T17:30:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Patrick Lichty is a multifaceted artist known for his work in various technological media. Born in Akron, Ohio, in 1962, Lichty's upbringing was immersed in art, technology, and science fiction. His career spans over three decades, during which he has established himself as a media artist, writer, curator, designer, and educator.\n\nLichty is especially recognized for his contributions as a principal member of the virtual reality performance art group Second Front and as the animator for the activist group The Yes Men. His diverse skills in digital intermedia include proficiency in printmaking, kinetics, video production, generative music, and neon art. Additionally, Lichty's role as a media \"reality\" artist and theorist reflects his deep engagement with how media and mediation influence our understanding of the environment.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Patrick Lichty discusses how he got involved in the early net art and post-Internet art scene, how Roman Verostko inspired him to create plotter drawings, digital minimalism, and taking photos with a wristcam in the early 2000s.\n","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-91cb4c26a88bc602d485dfd7ceb9494b2f0b025e-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"interview-patrick-lichty"},"store":null,"subtitle":"Pixel Art and Plotter Drawings","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-91cb4c26a88bc602d485dfd7ceb9494b2f0b025e-768x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"PATRICK LICHTY: ON DIGITAL MINIMALISM"},"videoUrl":null}],"title":"MAGAZINE"}],"seoDescription":"PIXEL GRAIN is Patrick Lichty’s first solo exhibition at the Showroom in Berlin. 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On view will be generative art from two key periods: from 1987 to 1993, when Latham gained a world-wide reputation for his pioneering evolutionary art, and his series MUTATOR INFINITY from 2022 to 2024. All the works were created with the MUTATOR AI system, which he developed with programmer Stephen Todd."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dcfa335f4707","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"62d0ce85772e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The MUTATOR INFINITY drawings incorporate 3D physics and show an evolution from Latham’s early minimalist organic style with forms set in a black void to a style that is deeply ornamental and could be described as \"Organic Gothic.\" Latham was inspired by electron microscopy imagery. Within the complex and entangled generative imagery lurk emergent forms, which the viewers will encounter as their eyes move across the artwork."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dae3fb54b029","_type":"moduleStatement","link":null,"text":[{"_key":"19b0bd727fff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"51c31cc1e64c","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WILLIAM LATHAM: MUTATOR INFINITY"},{"_key":"96e41afc7ad8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n14 MAY – 4 JUNE 2024 \nOPENING RECEPTION: 14 MAY | 6-9 PM CET\nThe artist will be present. 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9-22 APRIL 2024
NFT DROP: 11 APRIL 2024 | 6 PM CET
SOLD OUT: View on OpenSea.
COGNITIVE CHAOS by the Japanese artist Emi Kusano is a series of 33 AI-generated images that venture into the nostalgia of a future once imagined, where brains are directly connected to devices—a concept familiar from science fiction but now echoing with new significance.
As AI blurs the boundaries of truth, COGNITIVE CHAOS contemplates the resurgence of tangible sensations like texture and scent. It invites viewers to explore the balance between technology and the natural world, urging a rediscovery of our sensory experiences amidst the cognitive chaos.
Kusano encourages introspection on the interplay between our changing perceptions and the evolving digital landscape, advocating for a mindful engagement with the world around us.
EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
EMI KUSANO: COGNITIVE CHAOS
9-22 APRIL 2024
NFT DROP: 11 APRIL 2024 | 6 PM CET
SOLD OUT: View on OpenSea.
COGNITIVE CHAOS by the Japanese artist Emi Kusano is a series of 33 AI-generated images that venture into the nostalgia of a future once imagined, where brains are directly connected to devices—a concept familiar from science fiction but now echoing with new significance.
As AI blurs the boundaries of truth, COGNITIVE CHAOS contemplates the resurgence of tangible sensations like texture and scent. It invites viewers to explore the balance between technology and the natural world, urging a rediscovery of our sensory experiences amidst the cognitive chaos.
Kusano encourages introspection on the interplay between our changing perceptions and the evolving digital landscape, advocating for a mindful engagement with the world around us.
EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
PIONEER GRAILS: 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITION
EMI KUSANO: COGNITIVE CHAOS: WIRED REALITIES
16-19 APRIL 2024 | 6-6 PM CET
COGNITIVE CHAOS: WIRED REALITIES by Emi Kusano is a self-portrait created with AI that provokes thoughts about a future where AI and human thought processes might merge.
\nThe aesthetic is reminiscent of the cover of a 1970s Japanese occult magazine. It is both fantastical and slightly eerie.
\nKusano explores the complex dynamics between technology and humanity, order and chaos, and the internal and external worlds.
\nABOUT THE PIONEER GRAILS
EXPANDED.ART'S PIONEER GRAILS is a series of 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITIONS presenting paradigmatic artworks from key figures in the history of digital art.
ABOUT THE 72-HOUR OPEN NFT EDITION
Each open edition is available for 72 hours. The final edition size is determined by the number of primary sales during the 72-hour minting window. After the end of the 72 hours, the NFTs may be collected on the secondary market.
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She has always known that she was meant to be an artist, but she didn’t think she could make a living from it. Besides photography, she found other ways to be creative, such as playing in the band Satellite Young. Emi dressed up as an 80s idol and sang about technology. When Emi started working with AI, she understood that knowledge and taste are reflected in art more profoundly than ever before. She imagines fictional pasts and futures inspired by Japanese Futurism and subcultures, advocating for a mindful engagement with the world around us."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0ddbd2f6e249","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb2f04ffb9d40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Emi Kusano discusses retrofuturism and nostalgia, street photography and AI, mass media and social media, feminism, and the digital art market."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4fe60e5b77ed","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89f7ba6cc291","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3089c92394880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Emi, you are a musician and an artist. But you started your career as a fashion street photographer in the late 2000s. How did you get into fashion photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ce78795160d5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cfa1aa465f650","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Emi Kusano: I was born and raised in Tokyo, but in 2007, I went to study in Utah, USA, for a year. When I came back, I was shocked by Tokyo's unique fashion culture, where each train station seemed to have its own fashion tribe, each with its own distinct aspirations, reflected in a diverse magazine culture. I started working as a street photography site photographer, using the DSLR camera I got for my birthday. This was my first job."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"18500aaf96e3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano with her camera in 2009. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6f24c36c6c84e96b8f9e9374e899fea7f496805e-555x520-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6f24c36c6c84e96b8f9e9374e899fea7f496805e-555x520-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"94189966ad91","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7000bbf2892f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a894802543b40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What have you learned from fashion street photography that is now helpful for you as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"bacad759bf59","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6b9866a53590","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I was actively taking photos from 2007 to around 2010. What I felt during that time has become the foundation of my creativity today. Around the time I graduated high school in 2009, social media was on the rise, and fast fashion was becoming widely popular. The colorful fashion of the youths I saw in 2007 had, by the time I graduated, shifted to Normcore, with trends globalizing and everyone starting to wear brands like Zara and H&M, leading to the decline of many fashion tribes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2302cc34f956","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f440b1c1f9b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As for the technical aspects of photography, I wasn’t able to master them, but the sensation of wanting to capture the essence of a world’s inhabitants instantaneously feels quite similar to when I’m creating works with AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"00dc7d0cf403","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b9b434be66a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Furthermore, since my childhood, before I even started photography, I was a fan of 1980s idols and 1960s special effects animations. I've always wondered why I was drawn to such retro things. I've realized that the aspiration culture formed by mass media in each era is something that couldn't happen in today's era, where everyone follows various influencers on social media. This realization has become an inspiration for my creations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a5d24a04c0c2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7074db94b463","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a84e28645620","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Aren’t artists also influencers in the age of social media?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d00d0f936eb0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"872dd4aa8ac30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Absolutely, I believe so. The mindset in a world dominated solely by mass media versus one where social media exists is vastly different. Not just in pure, traditional art, but across all content creators, we're seeing the emergence of globally niche scenes, transcending borders to form small communities with diverse genres. Previously, specific scenes might have been localized to areas in London or around a station in Tokyo, but now there's a sense of multiple global niche streets existing virtually. The proximity to the audience has changed, allowing for immediate feedback, which indeed makes it an era where anyone can become an artist. Charisma has become democratized, and AI accelerates this, democratizing aesthetics and craft. As audiences can infinitely generate content they wish to see, the role of artists might also change."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"876acd7d317f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Synthetic Reflection #6, AI generation, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6b35f1c0ae77dd61f72e88a2f58a3178997f127a-1792x2688-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6b35f1c0ae77dd61f72e88a2f58a3178997f127a-1792x2688-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"1a16e4e28682","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"655aa3745b9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2c15a16a6aef0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you know you wanted to be an artist? And has it always been clear to you that you want to be a visual artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b71421cf5778","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"97b4a37094760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: First, as both of my parents were artists, I've always known since childhood that I was meant to be an artist. Until middle school, I was the best at drawing in my class. However, seeing my parents' financial struggles, I thought it would be difficult to make a living with art alone, so I didn't pursue an art college but went to a technology university and joined a design branding lab. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b350147abe9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"077d2d8bc64f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Nevertheless, I've always found myself engaging in creative activities, not just photography. I also performed in a music unit called Satellite Young, dressing up as an 80s idol and singing about technology. Additionally, I've created installation art featuring artificial life forms. Consistently, my theme has always been about creating a retro-futuristic world, and this motivation to create such worlds has always driven me."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"306debf12107","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Satellite Young is a Japanese synth wave band founded by Emi Kusano and BelleMaison Sekine in 2013.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-aa325903732cf5bcb487a02a98c989b6e05077ed-5760x3840-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-aa325903732cf5bcb487a02a98c989b6e05077ed-5760x3840-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"21b616d8d3ee","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"591549210398","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dbd6cb8df8e70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’ve mentioned two decades: the 1960s and the 1980s. Why these decades? And what can we learn from these decades? Are there any artists from these decades that have had an influence on your work as a musician and an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"88c0e7d98b9f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86840fdc33630","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I also like the 1950s, 1970s, and 1990s. It's easy to imagine the fashion and music of each era; maybe that's why everyone wants to time-travel. Since the spread of the internet, that clear, mass-experienced aesthetic seems to be disappearing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"683f9d5cb5d0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea5ed6f1e1340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, when I became conscious of it, it was the 1960s. I watched a lot of 1960s cartoons and loved the streamlined design of the Jetsons. I played with a reissued Blythe doll dressed in a Mondrian dress and made lots of 1960s-style clothes for dolls."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"44f245f326a6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0ddf4ec52c90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As for music, I love the 1980s the most, especially catchy mainstream songs. I've been listening to Kylie Minogue and Journey since I was a kid. I also love 1980s Japanese idols. Now, looking back, the flamboyance and prosperity of this era seem to define its aesthetic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af31e3e50268","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e1375f220960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I was little, I loved Fujio Akatsuka's magical girl genre manga and anime, \"Himitsuno Akko-chan (Akko-chan's Secret),\" the precursor to Sailor Moon. I watched the 2000 version of Akko-chan, but the original was from the '60s, and it was also animated in the '80s, each with slightly different settings, personalities, or parents' occupations, which I enjoyed comparing. I also loved Powerpuff Girls, collected the comics, and learned English from Powerpuff Girls. It's a 2000s show but has '60s illustrations, and I loved the maniac settings like Beatles trivia."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"01b7cb4612a2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e5428d5db2b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2047abd3f1c30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In the age of artificial intelligence, it’s somehow possible to travel in time. Everyone can ask Midjourney to imagine any era we can think of for creating images that reference films, music, art, and fashion. For your solo exhibition titled COGNITIVE CHAOS at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin, you traveled back in time to the 1970s with the present and future in mind."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5220b677ab13","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"693d5fb7649a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: The theme of my current body of work is Japan in the 1970s. The 1970s had occult and paranormal phenomena in the mainstream, not just subculture, and I hear Japan was enveloped in anxiety due to the oil shock and pollution. We might be experiencing something even more severe with the COVID-19 pandemic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f06398b2332d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d889c5d28dd80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"COGNITIVE CHAOS also draws inspiration from Japan in the era leading up to the bubble economy's collapse in the 1970s and 1980s, projecting contemporary values onto the fervor and occult culture of that time. Back then, the prophecies of Nostradamus were taken seriously, and conspiracy theories about aliens were featured during prime time on television. It captures the Japanese Futurism of that era while simultaneously paralleling the modern AI era, marked by the rise of Vision Pro and Deepfakes. Examples include young people experiencing bubbles and virtual glasses in a bathhouse, a half-android woman posing in front of the latest television equipment, and a full-body-suited virtual human spotted in a video store."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"75ce0b38b685","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusani, Cognitive Chaos #20, AI generation, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-986134f24b9006c0c118567e6ae703afd04079a6-3584x5376-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-986134f24b9006c0c118567e6ae703afd04079a6-3584x5376-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-518619955466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"729b2e610bec","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4e1f7212c0a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ac98d38839c10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You weren't born in the 1970s. How do you approach working on a project like COGNITIVE CHAOS?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3d007d04a345","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aac7335b36a80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Yes, for the 1970s lifestyle, I heard stories from my mother. I also referred to domestic Japanese archives like horror manga by Kazuo Umezu, popular around that time, and occult magazines like Mu. There's a cafe near my house with a vast archive of magazines, where I occasionally look at photos."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2e7cd4d3c495","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7d562fe1c1c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, the materials used in the stable diffusion SDL and MidJourney I'm currently using are heavily skewed towards Western data, so a complete reproduction isn't possible, leading me mostly to create new things from my imagination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"202bf006ce61","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Cognitive Chaos #22, AI generation, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1ff426b67eb8305277da9e73ad7a0e5ca622d3d7-1279x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1ff426b67eb8305277da9e73ad7a0e5ca622d3d7-1279x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-518619955466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"6c0a3ce7d1c9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"50b5ccfe7448","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a9f0300b1cd00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What does this, the Western perspective, reflect in your process of working with Midjourney and Stable Diffusion?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f7135a2d26b4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4423a04ed3780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7267e958da53","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a566df89b550","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Working with large-scale AI models like Midjourney and Stable Diffusion indeed makes it easier to draw upon globally recognized aesthetic genres like glam rock. However, it's more challenging to reflect very localized and specific trends like Japan's \"Takenoko-zoku\" without the models having a direct understanding of these subcultures. To express these unique facets of Japanese subculture, I often have to get creative with the prompts, using a combination of existing English words in innovative ways. This process of adapting and combining prompts to hint at specific subcultural elements is a fascinating aspect of my work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d088df9eadb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Pixelated Perception #23, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-853b3f6000aaa7fee74c6828e3e4d0bc129706ab-1024x683-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-853b3f6000aaa7fee74c6828e3e4d0bc129706ab-1024x683-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"813aca5ba5f8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"04bfd90b15c3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aa70a7ca0aca0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are retrofuturism and nostalgia an escape from today’s fast-paced life?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8a9165b5e124","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bfca9541d8f60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Retrofuturism and nostalgia offer us a lens to reexamine our perceptions, acting not as an escape but as a bridge connecting our past experiences with current and future innovations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae2872b4e903","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c04becded0550","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Observing the rebellious spirit of the past's youth—their hope for the future, their enthusiasm, and their despair—evokes a curious sense of nostalgia, even for eras we haven't lived through. Watching these images might be an attempt to grasp the brevity of our own lives or explore the essence of humanity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"961687efd221","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec99a223fbcc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fictional futures imagined by me or science fiction writers could be seen as extensions of current realities or mirrors reflecting them. After all, the present I'm living in will be considered part of the past from a future perspective."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b3c5fd8f7b57","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Neural Fad #70, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77985b4b4e6cc1c77bdff5d1cf2f4d0cfd37af4c-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77985b4b4e6cc1c77bdff5d1cf2f4d0cfd37af4c-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"d50b6399ac8e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b3c457fc2370","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72ab3d491a640","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are there lessons we can learn from looking at generations before that have imagined the future of art and technology?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9d8333e16430","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"176cb704bb460","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Exploring different eras and regions allows us to embark on parallel journeys, revealing the cycles of innovation and societal hopes and fears unique to each. This exploration also provides an opportunity to examine what is universal and delve into human nature."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"29cfbbb48a77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9ef0ae00cb1c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Historically, both utopian and dystopian visions have been portrayed, reflecting the circumstances of their times. Many scientists who develop technologies today are likely influenced by such fictional futures, motivating their real-world actions. Understanding the impact of AI and brain technology is crucial. The future is shaped by creative inspiration, with contemporary scientists and innovators drawing from novels, movies, and animations. We must also consider various potential futures, both utopian and dystopian."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"534954fe3677","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3320b1025bac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a807d431f8330","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As an artist, you do not limit yourself and seem to be an explorer. You’ve been part of the team of Shinsei Galverse, a 1990s-style anime that includes a PFP collection; you have created three AI collections, two of them with Bright Moments; and you have released a generative art project titled MELANCHOLIC MAGICAL MAIDEN on Art Blocks Curated. What drives your curiosity and creativity as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"09375c214302","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"84ed85e8af110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I have a strong desire to experiment with various mediums as an artist, but above all, I value concepts. 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Though I've stepped back as an executive due to my solo activities, I'm excited to see it complete, as I was heavily involved in the scriptwriting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d6745897517c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6798cb8a149c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"MELANCHOLIC MAGICAL MAIDEN was a significant challenge, blending coding and blockchain in a highly conceptual manner, embodying the essence of NFTs, a field I was eager to explore and developed concurrently with studying AI over two years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"99ce7d303d4c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Melancholic Magical Maiden, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9ed504e303794e12dee3e09b493676b990b88820-1280x961-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9ed504e303794e12dee3e09b493676b990b88820-1280x961-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"3ec740c52ad7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"73b8c0942706","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ccedbd0c8a60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You describe MELANCHOLIC MAGICAL MAIDEN as an “artwork that reveals the duality of magic and reality, mirroring your childhood memories with magical girls.\" Would you describe yourself as a feminist artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e360a8c0f4ef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ee353a435a7f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I consider myself a feminist artist. Much of my work reflects on the past to challenge gender roles, always aiming for inclusivity to ensure everyone, regardless of gender or attributes, has equal rights."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dc3719670049","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a9a376aed91a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, my approach isn’t merely about being politically correct. I’m both critical and captivated by the past, finding it crucial to explore this duality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1cde0517b3c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"30eb7615a56c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Human ethics are evolving, and instead of cancelling everything, it’s vital to reflect gradually. Magical Girl anime from our childhood, for example, showcased strong female figures, yet some narratives focused on traditional roles."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"efbf99a16d4e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b7e320d7efbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I can’t dismiss what I loved as a child and still respect its aesthetics. I adore feminine attire and parody girly 1980s Japanese female idols. Western dolls like Barbie, despite promoting lookism, are also empowered through various careers. The self-parody in revisiting these themes suggests that raising voices against wrongs was crucial in the past decade, but in the divided 2020s, reconstructing past entertainment might inspire change."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"57fa5b0c2800","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"245de1fe18bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"def5129d6c000","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’ve started as a street photographer working with a camera and now create images without having to leave the house. Do you see parallels between working with a camera and using AI as a tool?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"199dff40fe79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e8f11e268fd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: When it comes to the similarities between photography and AI generation, both mediums allow us to view the world through the creator's narrative. This is a key similarity. Additionally, both allow for endless opportunities to capture moments, yet the need to select from these captures is a shared challenge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b737f9c7cb6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"10c382fa61450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, the major difference lies in post-photography through generative AI, where an individual's knowledge and taste are reflected more profoundly than ever before. This distinction enables the visualization of narratives set in fictional parallel worlds that have previously remained unexplored. Such advancements, I believe, mark a significant revolution."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88d285ab935a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Neural Fad #50, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-eaad05118293e78218cf31420432f7e486ef3536-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-eaad05118293e78218cf31420432f7e486ef3536-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"7264afb68f71","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d2ab6a94cbfd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb6ebaa9878a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your response to critics saying images created with AI aren’t art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5a0c77e5c3c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c263398ee3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Facing the critique that \"AI isn't art,\" it’s essential to remember that historically, what was once dismissed often ends up defining the future of art. Notably, Banksy was viewed as a vandal and Warhol as too commercial, yet both are now icons of art history. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1ddc7ed63ac6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"92da733f5f51","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This pattern shows that art criticized for not fitting traditional definitions frequently becomes pivotal. In working with AI, we're at the cutting edge of contemporary art, pushing boundaries and expanding what art can be. Critics might see AI as a shortcut, missing the depth of interaction and intention artists bring to guide AI towards meaningful creations. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2dd920b8e927","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"112fb4ad7602","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Art is about challenging perceptions and exploring new frontiers. If AI creations can provoke thought and evoke emotion, they deserve recognition as art. Like Banksy and Warhol, we're exploring new territories, proudly contributing to the evolution of art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7647bcf863a9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"27ca266022e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07090f9d60fd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Speaking of Banksy and Warhol, has the role of the artist in the age of AI changed?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5241bf455c43","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b39df5d189fd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: The democratization of aesthetics through AI has certainly transformed the role of the artist. Just as Banksy and Warhol revolutionized the accessibility and distribution of art in their times, AI empowers modern artists to visualize narratives from every angle, introducing unprecedented diversity to art. In the near future, the lines between creators and viewers may blur further, with viewers potentially crafting their own experiences through the lens of an artist's custom AI model. This shift is poised to redefine the creative landscape, making art creation and appreciation more interactive and personalized."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"35fcdf5d1bd3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Pixelated Perception #10, AI generation, 2023. 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Her approach to 'cosplay' in art, where she explores visual culture, history, and the future while crossing the boundaries of self-identity, has inspired my exploration of similar themes in my own work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"623bdbc46671","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"679622f22d91","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"20661504ecf40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: With NFTs, digital art is now part of the art market. When you create an NFT collection, do you have the art market in mind?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"be24525dfdd3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"308b6e3d09cf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Certainly, marketing in the artistic sphere is often undervalued, yet I see it as crucial. When buying art, personal appreciation is paramount, followed by the artist's skill in marketing. My ambition is to keep creating into my later years; thus, I craft my works with market support in mind, having had wonderful encounters with collectors worldwide."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8c798f67fe36","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c1ab7148b0b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I focus on offering a range of artworks at varying prices and ensuring past works are accessible on my website. While considering tokenomics to avoid oversaturation, my desire to be prolific persists, aiming to one day present a vast variety of my works at a museum."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2414e5cb1b91","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ae5b762eddac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e72bf447bff0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your advice for artists who are thinking about embracing NFTs and AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"65a0b95df47e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2b983dca62ba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Keeping up with new tools and finding expression through them can be exciting, offering the potential to capture attention. However, creating timeless work likely involves reflecting your personal experiences and thoughts within a strong message. It's crucial to contemplate the underlying message of your art. Don't be deterred by a lack of technical savvy; even simple tools like Chat GPT can produce unique pieces. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"735b4f51ae40","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"42f9142c0b6b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Recently, the ability to craft complex custom models was highly valued, but not anymore, as demonstrated by artists like "},{"_key":"f47d0ea8c22c","_type":"span","marks":["0cc6e4cf2c11"],"text":"Niceaunties"},{"_key":"2bffe4b2a617","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". 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4 JUNE 2023 | BERLIN","title":"HANS DEHLINGER: PLOTTED LINES"}]},{"_key":"ece1f44e9bc5","_type":"moduleStatement","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-05-09T15:47:56Z","_id":"7f6ee2e2-f862-428c-8b8e-1387bb3d1d91","_rev":"nawG6Et7XvvKsh4YSxf80s","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-07-04T00:37:27Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"44f3485b8361","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"64d7bd935de0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64d7bd935de00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"83-year-old Hans Dehlinger has lived a life with many chapters. Early on, there was the chapter when Dehlinger studied under German philosopher and logician Max Bense and alongside Frieder Nake, today one of the most well-known pioneers of computer art. Then, Dehlinger entered the Berkeley chapter, where he studied and later worked as an environmental planner and architect, before entering a chapter experimenting with plotter drawings and generative art. With a broad approach to art and an ever-curious mind, Dehlinger combined the previous chapters and knowledge and has become a pioneer of generative art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e9e819bd90e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2c40db5f15720","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"With a focus on algorithmically generated line drawings, Dehlinger bases his generative artworks on computer code executed on pen plotters, forming delicate structures, dense textures, or even evoking an unsharp impression from sharp lines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5de6947d9af4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72797f30d810","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Hans Dehlinger discusses his career and early computer art, the past and present of generative art and the connection between science and art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b583d4752827","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Portrait of Hans Dehlinger: Courtesy the Artist. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"f7bff19765f3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a52007f8191c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fe6fcbf6ed330","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Mr. Dehlinger, Max Bense was your professor, Frieder Nake was one of your fellow students at the time. So you witnessed the early stages of generative art. What did you experience with Max Bense?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"eb2f32da770c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b067c4a93260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hans Dehlinger: I studied architecture in Stuttgart. Max Bense lectured in what was then known as the \"Studium Generale.\" I don't believe something like that exists anymore. People from all kinds of faculties gathered there. It was really exciting. There were no exams like in statics, building law, design, and so on. It was about questions concerning the art form of concrete poetry, which was fashionable at the time, about the types of language that might be used there, and about the more general question of when something is art. When does something stop being art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"894d86a11abc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1fd6f8774ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Bense's answer, very briefly: Avoid the term \"art\" altogether. The term art is far too loaded, Bense said. Therefore, introduce the term \"aesthetic event.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6bc86fb26c9b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c32e357f0ce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He once came in with a little metal art figure. \"What is this?\" Bense questioned, holding up the art figure. The entire assembly exclaimed, \"Art!\" Then he placed the figure in a vat containing something, acid maybe. Then the lecture began. Bense eventually took the figure out of the vat again and asked, \"What is this?\" \"Art!\" said everyone once more. The lesson then continued. Bense eventually took the figure out of the vat again, and it had already begun to dissolve. \"Art!\" yelled fewer and fewer people. At some point, the voices fell silent altogether."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc24ff436587","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d2b55ba17f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It is undoubtedly a lot easier to define when something is no longer art than when it is. That was Bense's point: How can one define art? How is that calculated?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dd50a9906a7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a2b82e28cfba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These lectures were extraordinarily focused and covered things that were absolutely foreign to me. The group of listeners was also interesting, because they came from all faculties of the university. There were often heated discussions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dfed04db9284","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a5e4bff30f00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As a freshman, exciting things were happening around Bense. One day, I noticed Frieder Nake observing the construction of a drawing on his plotter in the Institute for Numerical Mathematics. So as the plotter was running, and as I stood back, Nake called out to me, \"Come here and have a look! It's fairly straightforward. I'll show you how to do it.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ceb27fa60be3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c06243d9e8010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That really scared the heck out of me. I thought that if I went there and let myself be drawn into this, my architectural studies would be lost. I couldn't imagine that at the time. There were personal reasons for that. My father was very ill and I had to see that I took care of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"236967acca84","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08e1c24cbdf3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adcea3e9d7dd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: So, back then, you and your fellow students debated a lot about new developments and kept a careful eye on them. Herbert W. Franke, the pioneer of early computer art, was someone you looked up to. What captivated and moved you back then?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"34e1264ab9e5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0739992de010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: It was a very rebellious generation of students back then. Discussions about authoritarian structures were in full swing. This different way of looking at art played a major role in Max Bense's work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2a8cca41a2f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e027006085a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke had – in my understanding at that time – a completely revolutionary approach to create his \"aesthetic events\". His thoughts were related to what Frieder Nake pursued: The design of a generative principle comes before the generation of a result. That blew me away at the time. There was just this fascination that something can be generated generatively, which can then represent an aesthetic event. I consciously perceived that as something extraordinary. How something like that comes into being often played a role in Max Bense's work – the question of how these things come into being, in what way they can be triggered."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c24c5fbab8c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"ausblob_034, 2006.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4bb7ff8fcf2ee36390f3ee070b133916e2691e-510x602-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4bb7ff8fcf2ee36390f3ee070b133916e2691e-510x602-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e4f8f6dfe7a4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0bbb64eba240","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d09eb482d590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And how did you come across art? You began working with programming languages and computers in Stuttgart in 1966. Did you start creating art immediately?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cfff571fb6fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f18e6792f9790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: In a very figurative sense, yes. I was interested in architecture. There, too, we had discussions. We were convinced that computers would make things possible that were previously unthinkable."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bd050716af42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"014163b1df3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the subject of design, there were so-called impromptu designs. You had a few days to complete them. Then you had to present the results, which were then publicly exhibited, publicly discussed, and immediately evaluated. My best friend and I decided at the time to participate in such an impromptu design. The theme was to design a café for beachgoers in a narrow ravine on the beach overlooking the sea. I then developed a computer program that pulled together four or five terms in all possible combinations. The idea was that if you draw up a list of expressions and then generate all the possible combinations with the computer and list each of those combinations in a line as text, then each of those lines represents a \"semantic tangle.\" If one reads such a line, then a picture arises in the head. In a very rudimentary way, one then \"sees\" the café in the ravine."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3ef0b155d9c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1cf02a261e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I printed out a list of about 2400 such semantic tangles and hung it on the wall. That was – together with a small model where such a \"tangle\" hung in the gorge – my design. My friend had another idea: to plank the skeleton of an old shipwreck so that it would hang in the gorge as a café."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a75cf74652ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28ef3565e2560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We fell through with both of these designs. In my case, a long discussion ensued. There were between 50 and 100 people, including several professors. But there was no doubt about the fact that the design was not considered acceptable. In the end, though, one of my professors, someone I hold in very high regard, said, \"Who knows, maybe Dehlinger is right after all.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0043a59c9244","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"67263caedf270","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That sentence stuck with me. And that was important to me: that a teacher I respect thought maybe I was on to something."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b86dda967b63","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e95fec81d409","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2804bd0adf460","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Was that the first generative design for you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"bbbd9f9b6a42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b9e116dc92f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Yes, and I think it was the very first time that a computer was used as a determining element in a design, so to speak, at the Faculty of Architecture in Stuttgart. The fact that I learned programming at all was something that was not required anywhere. That was purely my interest."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"32ef15cf7ff2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8054f3e9dbc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But it was no problem at all within the university to attend such a lecture. The professor who taught the programming language Algol 68 was the same professor with whom Frieder Nake did his doctorate. I must say, however, that I dropped out after a third of that lecture. My program was simple combinatorics, I could do that already at that time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"89a41689ca40","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5a9a8d2deff8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05c642c681cb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You first completed an apprenticeship as a carpenter and then your high school diploma via the secondary educational path."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"58225dfee46f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8bd2be019af80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That's right. My background is one reason why these subjects fascinated me so much – because they were absolutely foreign to me. The work environment of the carpentry, then the technical high school at an insane pace, and then the admission to the architecture department and the start of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e268344242a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69c02e0c4b870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My first walk into the university building is still fresh in my mind. It was the new structure for the architects and engineers. We were the first semester in that building. I had goosebumps as I walked through the first-floor door: now you're entering the university, I thought to myself. That was a memorable occasion. My enthusiasm wore off after exactly four semesters. Then it was the opposite: I was completely convinced that everything had to be changed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6d95d6433f2b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"MSQ_2,8,11,13|15,9,6,4|14,12,7,1|3,5,10,16|, 2010.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9a6bddb03f50b06c6a079a5b0d564310db435558-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9a6bddb03f50b06c6a079a5b0d564310db435558-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2585212faaf0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"83bad45e44f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2dad760021270","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You studied in Stuttgart and Berkeley and worked as a project manager on the Olympic Village design team in Munich. Your educational background is in architecture. When did you initially refer to yourself as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2dcb65f165d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d4f2ca32ca60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Actually, never at all. I'm an architect with heart and soul. I was also proud to be able to do this study of architecture. Frank Lloyd Wright called architecture \"the mother of the arts.\" What I did were simply things that I subsumed under that term. I didn't care if other people called it art or not."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1f2860d99755","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"100d4536d1810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was already interested in theoretical topics in architecture at the time, such as design theory. There were publications about it in professional journals. Two of those educators in the field taught at Berkeley. So I decided to try to get there. Then I earned a scholarship, which I consider a huge blessing. But that's another story."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d88bb699e25c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b73e82b9acb30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fellowship ran for three quarters of a year, as UC Berkeley was on the quarter system at the time. So when it ended, I went to my teacher to say goodbye. And then he offered me a job. The reason, as I would see it today, was that I was very involved with computers at Berkeley. And there, again, I was fortunate to have a fantastic teacher, Laura Gold, who for the first time at Berkeley taught Computers for the Humanities, which is computer applications for faculties that are not primarily mathematically oriented. Snobol 4 was the name of this language, which I learned thoroughly and worked with a lot and also drew with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4a8fd7f4c3db","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3ad2de6eead8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ca0fa65c0740","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Frieder Nake started working with plotters back then during his studies. You already stated that you chose against it despite your fascination, despite the fact that you had the feeling: Something is going on here! Why?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f3a9f5bd5f7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d25fb6a55e3a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Plotters were still very expensive back then. There was also no easy access to plotters; even at Berkeley, the plotters at the computer center were not that easily accessible. So I focused on computers and programming languages, and I also programmed with natural language at first."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a34a9f157e8c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"107807ed3310","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"baf64bda7aa10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you finally decide to try your first experiments with the plotter?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"06361a160e68","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c63b4654d9e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That was in Kassel. I offered a seminar there for students of textile design. They are well trained in algorithmic procedures. Punch cards and everything related to them come from weaving."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"332feaaa7190","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c31605e75dc80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I arrived in Kassel and wanted to do this computer course with the students. But we didn't have a computer at the art school. The electrical engineering department had a lab where one was available for the students. So I went to the engineers and asked if I could use it for one of my courses."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d4236d43ad4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d421a62bc8fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And then we made a little book and also published it; that was the very first thing. Because I didn't have a printer at that time, we also wrote all the text with the plotter. The whole booklet is written and drawn with the plotter. That was great fun. For me, that were the beginnings of generative teaching at the art school."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23b145061339","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"EVo_xf_01, 2015.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61b079a6665274b2e9eca7e077990f263aa7b175-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61b079a6665274b2e9eca7e077990f263aa7b175-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"209e3212166b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ff601aef597","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed7bb0a156850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain what you do to people who have never heard of plotters and generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4a082dceae4a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b2e178fdb000","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: In terms of generative art, I believe it is fairly straightforward and simple to explain. One is attempting to create a step-by-step manufacturing manual for a project. When it is set in motion, a result is produced. In its design, random processes play a role. Whether one calls the result art or not – I've always been hesitant to call it that. The term \"generative art\" already contains a limitation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a03551f13353","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b1385565c239","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"213c78dc0c5b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Since the 1980s, you have exhibited your art internationally."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f65bf9afb0b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cbe7726d9edd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: These exhibitions were almost always linked to academic congresses. The SIGGRAPH – Special Interest Group Graphics – is famous. There were quite a few SIGs in the ACM, the Association for Computing Machinery, but SIGGRAPH was by far the largest, because graphics computing was making such rapid progress. I was a student member of ACM during my time at Berkeley.\n\nWhen one accepts a professorship, one also has an obligation to represent one’s field in an academic setting. Participation in international conferences is one way to do that. If a paper was accepted, then it was clear that it was professionally interesting, also for the larger community. That was enough for the German Research Foundation to fund such conference visits by professors. That's how I got the funds to make trips to Los Angeles, among other places."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"54e0aecf2bf7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Exhibition View at Hallenbad Ost, Kassel, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-117c32325312ee0fd1f5e6728f3ac91113ea576d-4160x3120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-117c32325312ee0fd1f5e6728f3ac91113ea576d-4160x3120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"f54af61b0854","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"db794722fd3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2662ff3465a70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When we last spoke, you mentioned that you got the sensation that something is beginning today and that we are at the beginning of something new. How did you form this opinion?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e18f8b88829a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"abdd3cbfd30e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Language, programming, and art are all being used in emerging AI advances. Language encompasses literature, poetry, and everything else we discuss. Everything we do in terms of artistic activity is art. In terms of programming, everything we do with computers is done through programs. And this is where these AI systems come into play. What they're already doing suggests that they're going to lead breathtakingly quickly to new things that we can't even imagine yet. This approach of AI is happening now – whether we will later like it or not is another question. When we look at ChatGPT in terms of news or just sharing of facts, one really has to say the facts are starting to swim. Everything is conceivable that one could not imagine at all so far."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"066200a90c78","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c35ff10d5708","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a5202b3d10e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are part of a pioneering generation that had to fight much more fights than we do today for the acceptance of digital art. What barriers did you run up against?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"423b03901ed1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"879ae97f3dd00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: A lack of understanding regarding digital developments in general. The faculty from the art department really felt (and expressed that in meetings) that there was no need for computers in art. Mankind doesn't need computers either, they thought; computers are a temporary phenomenon that will disappear at some point. That was really the opinion of these people, who, of course, a few years later were walking around with laptops themselves. It even went so far that a budget that had been earmarked to buy computers was converted into one for cameras at a budget meeting of the art school. The cameras were then purchased; the computers were not. With the result that the cameras were all stolen six months later."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23c1746937b9","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UIK_02.2B, 2012.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fa9cb45d3bba32a29fe4f723650030e833bd511d-790x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fa9cb45d3bba32a29fe4f723650030e833bd511d-790x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"30e33826014e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a8b198ee39a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adf577effa080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did you have the impression that it was possible to tear down these walls?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9778dc14435a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f75bb32695f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: No. You can't tear down such walls, whatever it is that you do. But at the Kunsthochschule in Kassel, there was someone in every department who was interested. We then joined forces."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f5d1a27a52a9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cbe396efcca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"128dbb8b8c350","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who was that?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"caa2c5c8a36f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"68dc39b106980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That was Prof. G. Mathias, Prof. H. Bauer and me. We initiated a lecture series called \"Design, Art, Computer: Computers at the Kunsthochschule\". In this lecture series, we invited people from outside, for example Peter Weibel, the long-time director of the ZKM in Karlsruhe, to make this topic known to the students. We were very successful with this.\n\nThe first computer pool at the Kunsthochschule came to be because of this group and with the help of these two colleagues. We later established the \"Institute for Computer Aided Representation and Design.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"217cad791400","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adb948bc11ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Throughout the university, I advocated for the founding of an interdisciplinary CAD Working Group, which ultimately comprised eight departments. This group had the necessary resources, rooms, equipment, software, and personnel. We were then able to build on this interdisciplinary working group.\n\nI would also like to mention the Society for Electronic Art and its long-time leader Dr. W. Schneider, museum director in Gladbeck, who organized an annual exhibition and introduced the Golden Plotter of the city of Gladbeck.\n\nOne thing is also critical: I had countless interactions with colleagues, students, and research assistants. It was a pleasure to work with these incredibly bright individuals. Teaching in partnership with these assistants and students in a new way – that is, much more jointly than I had experienced it as a student - gave me a lot of motivation.\n\nI would say the support actually came from those I was supposed to teach. So I certainly filled the professorship a bit differently than is the standard. And from that, again, interesting suggestions came back that otherwise wouldn't have come. We actually worked together on things that none of us had any idea about at first. Of course, that's typical for design: The task you're tackling is always unknown. You don't have a solution."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d0283a9d3a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"tree_16_on_pink, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"977d4509054d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"197c598e2bd2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5228018f3a0d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: There are three topics that still occupy you as an artist. The line. Unsharp images. Landscapes. Looking at the history of art, landscape is a genre with a long tradition. How did you approach creating landscapes with lines and code?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"31b82c0d188e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7bf31685789","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: I begin with walking. I wonder about what I see. Walking with open senses is a privilege. It makes me happy and focused. The rewards are an abundance of visual impressions in detail and mental explorations to capture what I’ve seen in nature and around me with the means that interest me: code and plotted lines. It could be a group of tall poplars in a strong wind, a large tree branching out from its massive stem, pebbles in a dry riverbed, or a landscape stretching to disappear into the distance."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cf1bbeb733f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ec00d4ccf790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Next, trials on possible programs may follow. A programmed drawing in a plotter file contains many vectors. They have mathematical properties and can be subjected to standard mathematical transformation operations. When physically plotted, the properties and shortcomings of pen and paper and the mechanics of plotting introduce less controllable layers of visual effects that can only be judged after a plotter drawing is completed. This means there is a time-consuming process of trial and judgement before a work is finished."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fd0f803d4f29","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"129397edd781","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72ee89f9590a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your landscapes are either abstract or figurative. In 2001, you created an artwork titled YELLOW TREE, which was shown in several exhibitions. I’ve recently read an interview with Vera Molnár, which made me think of your YELLOW TREE. In it, she recalls seeing her cousin draw the trunk of a weeping willow in ultramarine blue. \"This struck me for life, it gave me the courage to transgress, to think a little differently. It was unforgettable\", she said in that interview with Vincent Baby. Why did you decide to code a yellow tree on a blue background?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a5fa41776c65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dc42b36cdd57","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: YELLOW TREE is a print. I used code from the world of plotting and ventured into the world of printing, which is very different. One cannot plot a blue background identical to the one in YELLOW TREE with a pen. You may consider blue as the idea of a wide-open and inspiring sky, and yellow is what grows and ripens on the soil of the earth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6f8e87414180","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"210979b87859","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I think moments like the one you cited from Vera Molnár are thrilling experiences and have a substantial mental impact. In 2001, it was probably far less revolutionary for me to use yellow for a tree than it may have been in Vera Molnár’s youth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5139db6820cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"49bdc983ccee","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the design (and I use the term design deliberately) of YELLOW TREE, I was confronted with very few decisions: the design of a piece of code that makes use of randomly generated, however somehow predefined, polygonal lines consisting of straight line segments; a color for the object generated by those lines; and a color for the background. It is – in my opinion – the strictness and simplicity of this setup that are of interest for its qualification as an aesthetic event."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"351d01ab90ac","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"176dbb419e6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a16a4500bf8d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: After more than 30 years, what still fascinates you about the topic of nature?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a2e23402d050","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f64df8fe828","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Structures in or of nature are a prominent topic in art. I had a flash of insight as a young architectural student when I first encountered the photographic work of Karl Blossfeldt. And we know that many of the shaping forces in nature follow mathematical rules, e.g., the Fibonacci sequence. Order, all kinds of arrangements, but also chaos all follow rules. In the branching of trees, we encounter a fantastic variety. And if motion is added, for example, by wind, things may appear unsharp, even though they are not. For the design of aesthetic events, we can play with the shortcomings of human sight. I did that in the two examples of TREE_16 ON BLUE and TREE_16_ON_PINK."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2737a8ff5ddb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6fb5d35fef0c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There is another aspect hidden in the generative concept of YELLOW TREE that is very important to me. I regard it as fundamental for my code-generated line art. When drawing a line, no matter by which process it comes into existence, its starting point is placed deliberately. It is an important decision. We can mentally reduce a generative drawing to a set of starting points on a plane."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bf6444a0032a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b803ef6ac48a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And in the code, these points really do exist. I think it is important to see the tremendous freedom of decision we have in generative art. We can generate an entire line drawing from a tiny, arbitrary area on a plane filled with a very large number of starting points, or we can also see the other extreme as well: an entire drawing from only one single starting point. In many of my works, I have followed this line of thought right from the beginning."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b0befd73740e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Yellow Tree, 2001.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a67b81e8cfc91025be749ff0c500566c61f9e829-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a67b81e8cfc91025be749ff0c500566c61f9e829-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"f653b9158f32","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89d35f372f22","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8c483bcbd290","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You worked constantly with plotters and dealt with questions attentively and patiently. What motivated you at the time and led you to work with mechanically generated lines? What did you discover about lines?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd6ebe52fd62","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34206e2a298a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: The line is extremely intriguing to me. Actually, rock paintings are where art begins. The line is straightforward. There is a beginning and an end point. What occurs in the meantime is entirely up to chance. I assert that there is a line universe. It's a distinct, limitless universe.\n\nThe interesting thing about these early plotter artists is that they each developed their own type of line for their drawings. Jean-Pierre Hébert, Roman Verostko and I developed different line types with the programs. You can immediately identify these drawings. This is a Hébert. This is a Verostko, this is a Dehlinger."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d8895e24be4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"700fcf3a55a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For this, it is necessary to grasp the line algorithmically. I did it like this: The beginning is set relatively clearly. The end point can be left open for the time being. And what happens in between – you have to program some things for that.\n\nIn my case, this is a polygonal line, i.e. a polyline. There are length differences, angles, spread and more. You can program all this and influence it with random numbers.\n\nFor this reason, the line is an elementary and fascinating entity that lends itself very well to algorithmic generative approaches. You may also create surfaces, which I did as well. When the lines are tight and parallel, the drawing forms a surface."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e8565fd50b05","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"042b5f1c1e63","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8adf816a3150","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you get started on a new piece?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"03e0607acfaa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e41051fb7aa70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Often a question is in my mind for an extended period of time. I begin by taking notes and gradually get more concrete. This can take a long time. I've been working on a project involving three-dimensional sculptures for several years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"53ccaa748eb6","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Algorists (from left to right): Roman Verostko, Channa Horwitz, Jean-Pierre Hébert and Hans Dehlinger in Channa Horwitz's studio in Santa Monica, CA, USA, 2005.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2420a7c9274ad43dc50ffce75c5e672b7bb8c1b-796x298-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2420a7c9274ad43dc50ffce75c5e672b7bb8c1b-796x298-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"0952cd2e1358","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0d0aa5e1688f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07f6016a2f590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has anything changed in your influences from then to now?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"637dee607732","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fef8fea98e5a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: It's getting harder and harder to get the old plotters repaired. Maybe that's why I'm exploring the 3D field now: because once again there are new technologies to do stuff with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7fbcbf3c98fb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cf29de67dfc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4cf29de67dfc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Does your architectural background have an impact on your artistic work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1669bdaf093d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c496c507358e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Definitely. And, in particular, the design theory that I mentioned previously. The imagination – it’s exactly what Max Frisch does in his novel \"Mein Name sei Gantenbein\"; he was an architect. He uses this recurring phrase: \"I imagine...\" That is the constant preoccupation of architects: how do you come up with an idea? What is your interpretation of something? What is the answer?\n\nAnd these solutions are never what is known as an optimum in mathematics, such as an optimal point. There is no such thing here. It is equally optimal to be here or there. However, it is not equally good. Design theory is a wonderful foundation for such work - envision, grasp, and then create. You can then judge the result, others can judge it, and you can alter it. Typically many such iterations are developed, condensed, and then one or two are picked."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d3fcd84944e2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Berlin Airport Express, 2007.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2bee600d25ee59849204945d03ade7e9892125aa-576x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2bee600d25ee59849204945d03ade7e9892125aa-576x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2e78eac14740","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"16ad93227b66","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e658ebfb0fb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is abstract art something that influences you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5ed37caa107f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b98139cbb1370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: I believe that ideas for these things can come from everywhere. It can be abstract art or even a train schedule, as in my \"Berlin Airport Express\" project. Or a cigarette vending machine. I imagined at the time that these five brands, Roth-Händle, Ernte, and so on, may serve as the basis for a generative drawing. So the occasions are so diverse and multi-layered that no definitive assertion can be made in regards to their origin.\n\nWhen we were in China, it was difficult to convince students that a drawing without a figure is art. Art is entirely arbitrary. Finally I said to the students: \"We're going to do a 'random walk' with the camera. You hold the camera in your hand, pick how far you want to go straight ahead, how many degrees you want to turn, how close you want to get, and then press the shutter. Then there's the occasion for your art, which is what's in the picture.” One of them really got it and and then used it to create some really amazing abstract paintings."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"71c126bb5aff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4ee12932a8ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So actually you can use any occasion, anything that comes into your head. You just have to put some thought into it. You have to analyze and, of course, have some knowledge of what conditions generative art has and what you need for it. Then you can take sounds, colours, objects, collages, patterns etc. and create aesthetic events from them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"65a2cc36db16","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bec1b0600822","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6612e34290940","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have been following the evolution and history of generative art for several decades and have actively contributed to shaping it. What do you imagine art and technology to be like in five years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"610a3da90e2b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"962e1ed4bf320","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: The terms art and technology, or rather, this pair of terms – art in conjunction with technology – I’m sure will continue to exist, regardless of how technology advances. Artists will always find a way to interconnect the two. It is far more difficult to forecast where technology will go."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"028ddb181f35","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c1782f8b52020","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, I do not believe AI will completely replace generative approaches. Certainly AI can be used generatively. You may also say that the \"generative\" in generative art arose in the last 30-40-50 years, with people like Herbert W. Franke serving as forerunners. It's not like what's being done with programs now is entirely novel."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c29394550f97","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"427e5b2677b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It could also be that the AI becomes so independent that it simply spits out art, daily, always new art, somewhere, everywhere. That it feels the need to produce itself, to impose itself, and then the AI produces and places art everywhere. Seriously? I don't know."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d8ed506938ee","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"exq0_vers_2pos_1.2_bw, 2015. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fb4f4fe4427a906147440b8526166f3fda073c47-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fb4f4fe4427a906147440b8526166f3fda073c47-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"2246a44d8bc3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"beae42183e45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a73ddbf279120","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look back on all the battles you had to fight, such as the fight for the acquisition of computers at the university: Do you have any advice for artists who have to fight battles again today, for example over the acceptance of artificial intelligence in art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"77c2326448c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24f1897c90260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Don't let circumstances distract you. By all means, keep going. Engage in deep conversations with like-minded people."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8c27f3faa11d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"fede1616e48f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"b1ae8984-f009-4d76-83be-cfa91da66443","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"05c920be6b05","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"ef1958152302","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-525159923978","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"cf17ea0b4c09","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-515125936394","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b5b46afe02f2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-498295898378","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"42e798302a8b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8274717344010","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"5eee0d34456b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8275320176906","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"c8d2980bf434","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":{"_ref":"dbe3fa6e-8b5b-43c6-b80b-f9249e4fd522","_type":"reference"},"teaserItems":[{"_key":"82f563240160","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"32729e14-40b9-470c-a153-78a728eda14b","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9067f6fe087e","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"BERLIN","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-936f5274d2ab2a70cd3874dce4bc18b9c133ac13-4137x4137-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"link":{"_ref":"dbe3fa6e-8b5b-43c6-b80b-f9249e4fd522","_type":"reference"},"subtitle":"PLOTTED LINES","title":"HANS DEHLINGER"},{"_key":"859a2e33b77d","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"Berlin","link":{"_ref":"96de8287-f82c-4c74-ba75-9bc544d18097","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"3a7010153164","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"Berlin","link":{"_ref":"a7438850-749c-4a96-a9ea-943eff8c0466","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-05-11T12:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"83-year-old Hans Dehlinger has lived a life with many chapters. Early on, there was the chapter when Dehlinger studied under German philosopher and logician Max Bense and alongside Frieder Nake, today one of the most well-known pioneers of computer art. Then, Dehlinger entered the Berkeley chapter, where he studied and later worked as an environmental planner and architect, before entering a chapter experimenting with plotter drawings and generative art. With a broad approach to art and an ever-curious mind, Dehlinger combined the previous chapters and knowledge and has become a pioneer of generative art.\n\nWith a focus on algorithmically generated line drawings, Dehlinger bases his generative artworks on computer code executed on pen plotters, forming delicate structures, dense textures, or even evoking an unsharp impression from sharp lines.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Hans Dehlinger discusses his career and early computer art, the past and present of generative art and the connection between science and art.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"hans-dehlinger-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"subtitle":"Plotter Drawings and Generative Art","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b7d4e6be5ac5a9dc53a43999b998684ed874976c-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"HANS DEHLINGER: HOW CAN ONE DEFINE ART?"},"text":[{"_key":"dba23724e56d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d8e544a6148b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"The line is extremely intriguing to me. Actually, rock paintings are where art begins. The line is straightforward. There is a beginning and an end point. What occurs in the meantime is entirely up to chance.\" – Hans Dehlinger"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"blockquote"}]},{"_key":"e4493d0629e1","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"188911edc782","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"915be75ad9af0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EXPANDED.ART is pleased to present PLOTTED LINES, the solo exhibition by Hans Dehlinger on view at the gallery in Berlin. The exhibition is comprised of 26 of Dehlinger’s plotter drawings of the past three decades and shows the artist’s exploration of the medium and the line. With a focus on algorithmically generated line drawings, Dehlinger bases his generative artworks on computer code executed on pen plotters, forming delicate structures, dense textures, or even evoking an unsharp impression from sharp lines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6dc931f0de21","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"55b147d3af040","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"The line is extremely intriguing to me. Actually, rock paintings are where art begins. The line is straightforward. There is a beginning and an endpoint. What occurs in the meantime is entirely up to chance. I assert that there is a line universe. It's a distinct, limitless universe.\" – Hans Dehlinger"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"42694c3fda99","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c70fdfe818270","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Plotter drawings are line drawings. A mechanical drawing machine, the plotter, is controlled and driven by a computer program. The drawing pen clamped into the machine moves across the paper and draws, almost like a mechanical hand. Simply put, this hand responds to three commands: lift the pen, place the pen on the paper, and move the pen. When the move pen command meets the pen is down situation, a stroke is created."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f06e1e28329e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b0851327d57","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"With his \"Unsharp\" plotter drawings, Hans Dehlinger explores ways of generating line drawings executed on pen plotters that appear to be wholly or in part unsharp, even though they are drawn with sharp lines. When viewing two converging lines, there is a point called the \"minimum separabile\" where the human eye stops distinguishing between two separate lines and starts seeing grayscale. It is different for each individual and is also dependent on the distance from which the two lines are viewed. This limitation of human eyesight can be artistically exploited to create \"unsharp\" impressions from sharp lines. Hans Dehlinger has approached this topic systematically and has applied the results to his drawings, in which \"unsharp\" impressions of different kinds can often be observed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"69f007a8ee87","_type":"moduleStatement","link":null,"text":[{"_key":"167c22c906d0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"624209a9292a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"HANS DEHLINGER: PLOTTED LINES"},{"_key":"eae1b89b9b03","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n17 MAY - 4 JUNE\nOPENING: 17 MAY | 6-9 PM CEST\nThe artist is present. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"81159c1bcd71","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"76ccad6364b6","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"CRYPTO ART SALON BERLIN"},{"_key":"3eb96dea1e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n3 JUNE | 5-9 PM CEST\nAnika Meier in conversation with Hans Dehlinger and Piter Pasma. 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I could very easily have been one of them, but I am alive and still able to work on the things that intrigue me—and connect with many interesting people over them.\" – Hans Dehlinger"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"blockquote"}]},{"_key":"bdd8a10e3b0e","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"position":"right","text":[{"_key":"b789828d59af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9cc536966c2b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hans Dehlinger (*1939) lives and works in Kassel and Berlin, Germany. In the early 1960s, during his studies in architecture at the University of Stuttgart (Dipl.Ing.), he was introduced to computers and programming languages and later worked as an architect and environmental planner. He continued his education at the University of California, Berkeley (M.Arch., Ph.D.), before returning to work at the University of Stuttgart. 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"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9504caa135ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f711777f2d15","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"36e53242d2f8","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b8b6b12aeb96148291a682f6b619d6c94d33ec00-1280x1280-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"67a6ac56e9e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1215ac47b2e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Dehlinger's generative processes are located on a spectrum between \"one-pass processes,\" in which drawings are generated by programs without any intermediate visual feedback by the artist, and \"composite processes,\" in which drawings are generated in a sequence of steps."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2af1a7131143","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"597d7412b072","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"His work has received worldwide recognition and was first shown in Europe, later in Canada, Russia, Australia, the USA, Armenia, and China. 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Early on, there was the chapter when Dehlinger studied under German philosopher and logician Max Bense and alongside Frieder Nake, today one of the most well-known pioneers of computer art. Then, Dehlinger entered the Berkeley chapter, where he studied and later worked as an environmental planner and architect, before entering a chapter experimenting with plotter drawings and generative art. With a broad approach to art and an ever-curious mind, Dehlinger combined the previous chapters and knowledge and has become a pioneer of generative art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e9e819bd90e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2c40db5f15720","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"With a focus on algorithmically generated line drawings, Dehlinger bases his generative artworks on computer code executed on pen plotters, forming delicate structures, dense textures, or even evoking an unsharp impression from sharp lines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5de6947d9af4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72797f30d810","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Hans Dehlinger discusses his career and early computer art, the past and present of generative art and the connection between science and art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b583d4752827","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Portrait of Hans Dehlinger: Courtesy the Artist. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"f7bff19765f3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a52007f8191c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fe6fcbf6ed330","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Mr. Dehlinger, Max Bense was your professor, Frieder Nake was one of your fellow students at the time. So you witnessed the early stages of generative art. What did you experience with Max Bense?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"eb2f32da770c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b067c4a93260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hans Dehlinger: I studied architecture in Stuttgart. Max Bense lectured in what was then known as the \"Studium Generale.\" I don't believe something like that exists anymore. People from all kinds of faculties gathered there. It was really exciting. There were no exams like in statics, building law, design, and so on. It was about questions concerning the art form of concrete poetry, which was fashionable at the time, about the types of language that might be used there, and about the more general question of when something is art. When does something stop being art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"894d86a11abc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1fd6f8774ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Bense's answer, very briefly: Avoid the term \"art\" altogether. The term art is far too loaded, Bense said. Therefore, introduce the term \"aesthetic event.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6bc86fb26c9b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c32e357f0ce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He once came in with a little metal art figure. \"What is this?\" Bense questioned, holding up the art figure. The entire assembly exclaimed, \"Art!\" Then he placed the figure in a vat containing something, acid maybe. Then the lecture began. Bense eventually took the figure out of the vat again and asked, \"What is this?\" \"Art!\" said everyone once more. The lesson then continued. Bense eventually took the figure out of the vat again, and it had already begun to dissolve. \"Art!\" yelled fewer and fewer people. At some point, the voices fell silent altogether."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc24ff436587","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d2b55ba17f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It is undoubtedly a lot easier to define when something is no longer art than when it is. That was Bense's point: How can one define art? How is that calculated?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dd50a9906a7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a2b82e28cfba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These lectures were extraordinarily focused and covered things that were absolutely foreign to me. The group of listeners was also interesting, because they came from all faculties of the university. There were often heated discussions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dfed04db9284","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a5e4bff30f00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As a freshman, exciting things were happening around Bense. One day, I noticed Frieder Nake observing the construction of a drawing on his plotter in the Institute for Numerical Mathematics. So as the plotter was running, and as I stood back, Nake called out to me, \"Come here and have a look! It's fairly straightforward. I'll show you how to do it.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ceb27fa60be3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c06243d9e8010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That really scared the heck out of me. I thought that if I went there and let myself be drawn into this, my architectural studies would be lost. I couldn't imagine that at the time. There were personal reasons for that. My father was very ill and I had to see that I took care of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"236967acca84","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08e1c24cbdf3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adcea3e9d7dd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: So, back then, you and your fellow students debated a lot about new developments and kept a careful eye on them. Herbert W. Franke, the pioneer of early computer art, was someone you looked up to. What captivated and moved you back then?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"34e1264ab9e5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0739992de010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: It was a very rebellious generation of students back then. Discussions about authoritarian structures were in full swing. This different way of looking at art played a major role in Max Bense's work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2a8cca41a2f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e027006085a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke had – in my understanding at that time – a completely revolutionary approach to create his \"aesthetic events\". His thoughts were related to what Frieder Nake pursued: The design of a generative principle comes before the generation of a result. That blew me away at the time. There was just this fascination that something can be generated generatively, which can then represent an aesthetic event. I consciously perceived that as something extraordinary. How something like that comes into being often played a role in Max Bense's work – the question of how these things come into being, in what way they can be triggered."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c24c5fbab8c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"ausblob_034, 2006.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4bb7ff8fcf2ee36390f3ee070b133916e2691e-510x602-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4bb7ff8fcf2ee36390f3ee070b133916e2691e-510x602-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e4f8f6dfe7a4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0bbb64eba240","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d09eb482d590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And how did you come across art? You began working with programming languages and computers in Stuttgart in 1966. Did you start creating art immediately?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cfff571fb6fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f18e6792f9790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: In a very figurative sense, yes. I was interested in architecture. There, too, we had discussions. We were convinced that computers would make things possible that were previously unthinkable."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bd050716af42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"014163b1df3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the subject of design, there were so-called impromptu designs. You had a few days to complete them. Then you had to present the results, which were then publicly exhibited, publicly discussed, and immediately evaluated. My best friend and I decided at the time to participate in such an impromptu design. The theme was to design a café for beachgoers in a narrow ravine on the beach overlooking the sea. I then developed a computer program that pulled together four or five terms in all possible combinations. The idea was that if you draw up a list of expressions and then generate all the possible combinations with the computer and list each of those combinations in a line as text, then each of those lines represents a \"semantic tangle.\" If one reads such a line, then a picture arises in the head. In a very rudimentary way, one then \"sees\" the café in the ravine."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3ef0b155d9c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1cf02a261e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I printed out a list of about 2400 such semantic tangles and hung it on the wall. That was – together with a small model where such a \"tangle\" hung in the gorge – my design. My friend had another idea: to plank the skeleton of an old shipwreck so that it would hang in the gorge as a café."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a75cf74652ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28ef3565e2560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We fell through with both of these designs. In my case, a long discussion ensued. There were between 50 and 100 people, including several professors. But there was no doubt about the fact that the design was not considered acceptable. In the end, though, one of my professors, someone I hold in very high regard, said, \"Who knows, maybe Dehlinger is right after all.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0043a59c9244","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"67263caedf270","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That sentence stuck with me. And that was important to me: that a teacher I respect thought maybe I was on to something."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b86dda967b63","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e95fec81d409","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2804bd0adf460","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Was that the first generative design for you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"bbbd9f9b6a42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b9e116dc92f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Yes, and I think it was the very first time that a computer was used as a determining element in a design, so to speak, at the Faculty of Architecture in Stuttgart. The fact that I learned programming at all was something that was not required anywhere. That was purely my interest."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"32ef15cf7ff2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8054f3e9dbc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But it was no problem at all within the university to attend such a lecture. The professor who taught the programming language Algol 68 was the same professor with whom Frieder Nake did his doctorate. I must say, however, that I dropped out after a third of that lecture. My program was simple combinatorics, I could do that already at that time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"89a41689ca40","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5a9a8d2deff8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05c642c681cb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You first completed an apprenticeship as a carpenter and then your high school diploma via the secondary educational path."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"58225dfee46f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8bd2be019af80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That's right. My background is one reason why these subjects fascinated me so much – because they were absolutely foreign to me. The work environment of the carpentry, then the technical high school at an insane pace, and then the admission to the architecture department and the start of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e268344242a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69c02e0c4b870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My first walk into the university building is still fresh in my mind. It was the new structure for the architects and engineers. We were the first semester in that building. I had goosebumps as I walked through the first-floor door: now you're entering the university, I thought to myself. That was a memorable occasion. My enthusiasm wore off after exactly four semesters. Then it was the opposite: I was completely convinced that everything had to be changed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6d95d6433f2b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"MSQ_2,8,11,13|15,9,6,4|14,12,7,1|3,5,10,16|, 2010.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9a6bddb03f50b06c6a079a5b0d564310db435558-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9a6bddb03f50b06c6a079a5b0d564310db435558-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2585212faaf0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"83bad45e44f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2dad760021270","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You studied in Stuttgart and Berkeley and worked as a project manager on the Olympic Village design team in Munich. Your educational background is in architecture. When did you initially refer to yourself as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2dcb65f165d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d4f2ca32ca60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Actually, never at all. I'm an architect with heart and soul. I was also proud to be able to do this study of architecture. Frank Lloyd Wright called architecture \"the mother of the arts.\" What I did were simply things that I subsumed under that term. I didn't care if other people called it art or not."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1f2860d99755","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"100d4536d1810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was already interested in theoretical topics in architecture at the time, such as design theory. There were publications about it in professional journals. Two of those educators in the field taught at Berkeley. So I decided to try to get there. Then I earned a scholarship, which I consider a huge blessing. But that's another story."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d88bb699e25c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b73e82b9acb30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fellowship ran for three quarters of a year, as UC Berkeley was on the quarter system at the time. So when it ended, I went to my teacher to say goodbye. And then he offered me a job. The reason, as I would see it today, was that I was very involved with computers at Berkeley. And there, again, I was fortunate to have a fantastic teacher, Laura Gold, who for the first time at Berkeley taught Computers for the Humanities, which is computer applications for faculties that are not primarily mathematically oriented. Snobol 4 was the name of this language, which I learned thoroughly and worked with a lot and also drew with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4a8fd7f4c3db","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3ad2de6eead8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ca0fa65c0740","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Frieder Nake started working with plotters back then during his studies. You already stated that you chose against it despite your fascination, despite the fact that you had the feeling: Something is going on here! Why?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f3a9f5bd5f7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d25fb6a55e3a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Plotters were still very expensive back then. There was also no easy access to plotters; even at Berkeley, the plotters at the computer center were not that easily accessible. So I focused on computers and programming languages, and I also programmed with natural language at first."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a34a9f157e8c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"107807ed3310","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"baf64bda7aa10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you finally decide to try your first experiments with the plotter?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"06361a160e68","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c63b4654d9e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That was in Kassel. I offered a seminar there for students of textile design. They are well trained in algorithmic procedures. Punch cards and everything related to them come from weaving."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"332feaaa7190","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c31605e75dc80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I arrived in Kassel and wanted to do this computer course with the students. But we didn't have a computer at the art school. The electrical engineering department had a lab where one was available for the students. So I went to the engineers and asked if I could use it for one of my courses."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d4236d43ad4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d421a62bc8fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And then we made a little book and also published it; that was the very first thing. Because I didn't have a printer at that time, we also wrote all the text with the plotter. The whole booklet is written and drawn with the plotter. That was great fun. For me, that were the beginnings of generative teaching at the art school."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23b145061339","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"EVo_xf_01, 2015.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61b079a6665274b2e9eca7e077990f263aa7b175-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61b079a6665274b2e9eca7e077990f263aa7b175-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"209e3212166b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ff601aef597","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed7bb0a156850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain what you do to people who have never heard of plotters and generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4a082dceae4a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b2e178fdb000","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: In terms of generative art, I believe it is fairly straightforward and simple to explain. One is attempting to create a step-by-step manufacturing manual for a project. When it is set in motion, a result is produced. In its design, random processes play a role. Whether one calls the result art or not – I've always been hesitant to call it that. The term \"generative art\" already contains a limitation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a03551f13353","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b1385565c239","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"213c78dc0c5b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Since the 1980s, you have exhibited your art internationally."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f65bf9afb0b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cbe7726d9edd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: These exhibitions were almost always linked to academic congresses. The SIGGRAPH – Special Interest Group Graphics – is famous. There were quite a few SIGs in the ACM, the Association for Computing Machinery, but SIGGRAPH was by far the largest, because graphics computing was making such rapid progress. I was a student member of ACM during my time at Berkeley.\n\nWhen one accepts a professorship, one also has an obligation to represent one’s field in an academic setting. Participation in international conferences is one way to do that. If a paper was accepted, then it was clear that it was professionally interesting, also for the larger community. That was enough for the German Research Foundation to fund such conference visits by professors. That's how I got the funds to make trips to Los Angeles, among other places."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"54e0aecf2bf7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Exhibition View at Hallenbad Ost, Kassel, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-117c32325312ee0fd1f5e6728f3ac91113ea576d-4160x3120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-117c32325312ee0fd1f5e6728f3ac91113ea576d-4160x3120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"f54af61b0854","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"db794722fd3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2662ff3465a70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When we last spoke, you mentioned that you got the sensation that something is beginning today and that we are at the beginning of something new. How did you form this opinion?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e18f8b88829a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"abdd3cbfd30e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Language, programming, and art are all being used in emerging AI advances. Language encompasses literature, poetry, and everything else we discuss. Everything we do in terms of artistic activity is art. In terms of programming, everything we do with computers is done through programs. And this is where these AI systems come into play. What they're already doing suggests that they're going to lead breathtakingly quickly to new things that we can't even imagine yet. This approach of AI is happening now – whether we will later like it or not is another question. When we look at ChatGPT in terms of news or just sharing of facts, one really has to say the facts are starting to swim. Everything is conceivable that one could not imagine at all so far."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"066200a90c78","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c35ff10d5708","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a5202b3d10e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are part of a pioneering generation that had to fight much more fights than we do today for the acceptance of digital art. What barriers did you run up against?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"423b03901ed1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"879ae97f3dd00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: A lack of understanding regarding digital developments in general. The faculty from the art department really felt (and expressed that in meetings) that there was no need for computers in art. Mankind doesn't need computers either, they thought; computers are a temporary phenomenon that will disappear at some point. That was really the opinion of these people, who, of course, a few years later were walking around with laptops themselves. It even went so far that a budget that had been earmarked to buy computers was converted into one for cameras at a budget meeting of the art school. The cameras were then purchased; the computers were not. With the result that the cameras were all stolen six months later."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23c1746937b9","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UIK_02.2B, 2012.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fa9cb45d3bba32a29fe4f723650030e833bd511d-790x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fa9cb45d3bba32a29fe4f723650030e833bd511d-790x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"30e33826014e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a8b198ee39a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adf577effa080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did you have the impression that it was possible to tear down these walls?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9778dc14435a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f75bb32695f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: No. You can't tear down such walls, whatever it is that you do. But at the Kunsthochschule in Kassel, there was someone in every department who was interested. We then joined forces."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f5d1a27a52a9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cbe396efcca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"128dbb8b8c350","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who was that?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"caa2c5c8a36f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"68dc39b106980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That was Prof. G. Mathias, Prof. H. Bauer and me. We initiated a lecture series called \"Design, Art, Computer: Computers at the Kunsthochschule\". In this lecture series, we invited people from outside, for example Peter Weibel, the long-time director of the ZKM in Karlsruhe, to make this topic known to the students. We were very successful with this.\n\nThe first computer pool at the Kunsthochschule came to be because of this group and with the help of these two colleagues. We later established the \"Institute for Computer Aided Representation and Design.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"217cad791400","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adb948bc11ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Throughout the university, I advocated for the founding of an interdisciplinary CAD Working Group, which ultimately comprised eight departments. This group had the necessary resources, rooms, equipment, software, and personnel. We were then able to build on this interdisciplinary working group.\n\nI would also like to mention the Society for Electronic Art and its long-time leader Dr. W. Schneider, museum director in Gladbeck, who organized an annual exhibition and introduced the Golden Plotter of the city of Gladbeck.\n\nOne thing is also critical: I had countless interactions with colleagues, students, and research assistants. It was a pleasure to work with these incredibly bright individuals. Teaching in partnership with these assistants and students in a new way – that is, much more jointly than I had experienced it as a student - gave me a lot of motivation.\n\nI would say the support actually came from those I was supposed to teach. So I certainly filled the professorship a bit differently than is the standard. And from that, again, interesting suggestions came back that otherwise wouldn't have come. We actually worked together on things that none of us had any idea about at first. Of course, that's typical for design: The task you're tackling is always unknown. You don't have a solution."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d0283a9d3a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"tree_16_on_pink, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"977d4509054d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"197c598e2bd2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5228018f3a0d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: There are three topics that still occupy you as an artist. The line. Unsharp images. Landscapes. Looking at the history of art, landscape is a genre with a long tradition. How did you approach creating landscapes with lines and code?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"31b82c0d188e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7bf31685789","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: I begin with walking. I wonder about what I see. Walking with open senses is a privilege. It makes me happy and focused. The rewards are an abundance of visual impressions in detail and mental explorations to capture what I’ve seen in nature and around me with the means that interest me: code and plotted lines. It could be a group of tall poplars in a strong wind, a large tree branching out from its massive stem, pebbles in a dry riverbed, or a landscape stretching to disappear into the distance."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cf1bbeb733f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ec00d4ccf790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Next, trials on possible programs may follow. A programmed drawing in a plotter file contains many vectors. They have mathematical properties and can be subjected to standard mathematical transformation operations. When physically plotted, the properties and shortcomings of pen and paper and the mechanics of plotting introduce less controllable layers of visual effects that can only be judged after a plotter drawing is completed. This means there is a time-consuming process of trial and judgement before a work is finished."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fd0f803d4f29","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"129397edd781","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72ee89f9590a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your landscapes are either abstract or figurative. In 2001, you created an artwork titled YELLOW TREE, which was shown in several exhibitions. I’ve recently read an interview with Vera Molnár, which made me think of your YELLOW TREE. In it, she recalls seeing her cousin draw the trunk of a weeping willow in ultramarine blue. \"This struck me for life, it gave me the courage to transgress, to think a little differently. It was unforgettable\", she said in that interview with Vincent Baby. Why did you decide to code a yellow tree on a blue background?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a5fa41776c65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dc42b36cdd57","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: YELLOW TREE is a print. I used code from the world of plotting and ventured into the world of printing, which is very different. One cannot plot a blue background identical to the one in YELLOW TREE with a pen. You may consider blue as the idea of a wide-open and inspiring sky, and yellow is what grows and ripens on the soil of the earth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6f8e87414180","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"210979b87859","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I think moments like the one you cited from Vera Molnár are thrilling experiences and have a substantial mental impact. In 2001, it was probably far less revolutionary for me to use yellow for a tree than it may have been in Vera Molnár’s youth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5139db6820cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"49bdc983ccee","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the design (and I use the term design deliberately) of YELLOW TREE, I was confronted with very few decisions: the design of a piece of code that makes use of randomly generated, however somehow predefined, polygonal lines consisting of straight line segments; a color for the object generated by those lines; and a color for the background. It is – in my opinion – the strictness and simplicity of this setup that are of interest for its qualification as an aesthetic event."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"351d01ab90ac","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"176dbb419e6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a16a4500bf8d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: After more than 30 years, what still fascinates you about the topic of nature?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a2e23402d050","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f64df8fe828","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Structures in or of nature are a prominent topic in art. I had a flash of insight as a young architectural student when I first encountered the photographic work of Karl Blossfeldt. And we know that many of the shaping forces in nature follow mathematical rules, e.g., the Fibonacci sequence. Order, all kinds of arrangements, but also chaos all follow rules. In the branching of trees, we encounter a fantastic variety. And if motion is added, for example, by wind, things may appear unsharp, even though they are not. For the design of aesthetic events, we can play with the shortcomings of human sight. I did that in the two examples of TREE_16 ON BLUE and TREE_16_ON_PINK."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2737a8ff5ddb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6fb5d35fef0c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There is another aspect hidden in the generative concept of YELLOW TREE that is very important to me. I regard it as fundamental for my code-generated line art. When drawing a line, no matter by which process it comes into existence, its starting point is placed deliberately. It is an important decision. We can mentally reduce a generative drawing to a set of starting points on a plane."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bf6444a0032a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b803ef6ac48a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And in the code, these points really do exist. I think it is important to see the tremendous freedom of decision we have in generative art. We can generate an entire line drawing from a tiny, arbitrary area on a plane filled with a very large number of starting points, or we can also see the other extreme as well: an entire drawing from only one single starting point. In many of my works, I have followed this line of thought right from the beginning."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b0befd73740e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Yellow Tree, 2001.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a67b81e8cfc91025be749ff0c500566c61f9e829-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a67b81e8cfc91025be749ff0c500566c61f9e829-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"f653b9158f32","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89d35f372f22","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8c483bcbd290","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You worked constantly with plotters and dealt with questions attentively and patiently. What motivated you at the time and led you to work with mechanically generated lines? What did you discover about lines?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd6ebe52fd62","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34206e2a298a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: The line is extremely intriguing to me. Actually, rock paintings are where art begins. The line is straightforward. There is a beginning and an end point. What occurs in the meantime is entirely up to chance. I assert that there is a line universe. It's a distinct, limitless universe.\n\nThe interesting thing about these early plotter artists is that they each developed their own type of line for their drawings. Jean-Pierre Hébert, Roman Verostko and I developed different line types with the programs. You can immediately identify these drawings. This is a Hébert. This is a Verostko, this is a Dehlinger."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d8895e24be4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"700fcf3a55a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For this, it is necessary to grasp the line algorithmically. I did it like this: The beginning is set relatively clearly. The end point can be left open for the time being. And what happens in between – you have to program some things for that.\n\nIn my case, this is a polygonal line, i.e. a polyline. There are length differences, angles, spread and more. You can program all this and influence it with random numbers.\n\nFor this reason, the line is an elementary and fascinating entity that lends itself very well to algorithmic generative approaches. You may also create surfaces, which I did as well. When the lines are tight and parallel, the drawing forms a surface."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e8565fd50b05","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"042b5f1c1e63","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8adf816a3150","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you get started on a new piece?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"03e0607acfaa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e41051fb7aa70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Often a question is in my mind for an extended period of time. I begin by taking notes and gradually get more concrete. This can take a long time. I've been working on a project involving three-dimensional sculptures for several years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"53ccaa748eb6","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Algorists (from left to right): Roman Verostko, Channa Horwitz, Jean-Pierre Hébert and Hans Dehlinger in Channa Horwitz's studio in Santa Monica, CA, USA, 2005.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2420a7c9274ad43dc50ffce75c5e672b7bb8c1b-796x298-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2420a7c9274ad43dc50ffce75c5e672b7bb8c1b-796x298-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"0952cd2e1358","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0d0aa5e1688f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07f6016a2f590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has anything changed in your influences from then to now?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"637dee607732","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fef8fea98e5a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: It's getting harder and harder to get the old plotters repaired. Maybe that's why I'm exploring the 3D field now: because once again there are new technologies to do stuff with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7fbcbf3c98fb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cf29de67dfc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4cf29de67dfc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Does your architectural background have an impact on your artistic work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1669bdaf093d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c496c507358e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Definitely. And, in particular, the design theory that I mentioned previously. The imagination – it’s exactly what Max Frisch does in his novel \"Mein Name sei Gantenbein\"; he was an architect. He uses this recurring phrase: \"I imagine...\" That is the constant preoccupation of architects: how do you come up with an idea? What is your interpretation of something? What is the answer?\n\nAnd these solutions are never what is known as an optimum in mathematics, such as an optimal point. There is no such thing here. It is equally optimal to be here or there. However, it is not equally good. Design theory is a wonderful foundation for such work - envision, grasp, and then create. You can then judge the result, others can judge it, and you can alter it. Typically many such iterations are developed, condensed, and then one or two are picked."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d3fcd84944e2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Berlin Airport Express, 2007.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2bee600d25ee59849204945d03ade7e9892125aa-576x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2bee600d25ee59849204945d03ade7e9892125aa-576x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2e78eac14740","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"16ad93227b66","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e658ebfb0fb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is abstract art something that influences you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5ed37caa107f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b98139cbb1370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: I believe that ideas for these things can come from everywhere. It can be abstract art or even a train schedule, as in my \"Berlin Airport Express\" project. Or a cigarette vending machine. I imagined at the time that these five brands, Roth-Händle, Ernte, and so on, may serve as the basis for a generative drawing. So the occasions are so diverse and multi-layered that no definitive assertion can be made in regards to their origin.\n\nWhen we were in China, it was difficult to convince students that a drawing without a figure is art. Art is entirely arbitrary. Finally I said to the students: \"We're going to do a 'random walk' with the camera. You hold the camera in your hand, pick how far you want to go straight ahead, how many degrees you want to turn, how close you want to get, and then press the shutter. Then there's the occasion for your art, which is what's in the picture.” One of them really got it and and then used it to create some really amazing abstract paintings."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"71c126bb5aff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4ee12932a8ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So actually you can use any occasion, anything that comes into your head. You just have to put some thought into it. You have to analyze and, of course, have some knowledge of what conditions generative art has and what you need for it. Then you can take sounds, colours, objects, collages, patterns etc. and create aesthetic events from them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"65a2cc36db16","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bec1b0600822","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6612e34290940","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have been following the evolution and history of generative art for several decades and have actively contributed to shaping it. What do you imagine art and technology to be like in five years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"610a3da90e2b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"962e1ed4bf320","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: The terms art and technology, or rather, this pair of terms – art in conjunction with technology – I’m sure will continue to exist, regardless of how technology advances. Artists will always find a way to interconnect the two. It is far more difficult to forecast where technology will go."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"028ddb181f35","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c1782f8b52020","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, I do not believe AI will completely replace generative approaches. Certainly AI can be used generatively. You may also say that the \"generative\" in generative art arose in the last 30-40-50 years, with people like Herbert W. Franke serving as forerunners. It's not like what's being done with programs now is entirely novel."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c29394550f97","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"427e5b2677b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It could also be that the AI becomes so independent that it simply spits out art, daily, always new art, somewhere, everywhere. That it feels the need to produce itself, to impose itself, and then the AI produces and places art everywhere. Seriously? I don't know."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d8ed506938ee","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"exq0_vers_2pos_1.2_bw, 2015. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fb4f4fe4427a906147440b8526166f3fda073c47-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fb4f4fe4427a906147440b8526166f3fda073c47-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"2246a44d8bc3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"beae42183e45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a73ddbf279120","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look back on all the battles you had to fight, such as the fight for the acquisition of computers at the university: Do you have any advice for artists who have to fight battles again today, for example over the acceptance of artificial intelligence in art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"77c2326448c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24f1897c90260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Don't let circumstances distract you. By all means, keep going. Engage in deep conversations with like-minded people."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8c27f3faa11d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"fede1616e48f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"b1ae8984-f009-4d76-83be-cfa91da66443","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"05c920be6b05","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"ef1958152302","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-525159923978","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"cf17ea0b4c09","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-515125936394","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b5b46afe02f2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-498295898378","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"42e798302a8b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8274717344010","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"5eee0d34456b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8275320176906","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"c8d2980bf434","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":{"_ref":"dbe3fa6e-8b5b-43c6-b80b-f9249e4fd522","_type":"reference"},"teaserItems":[{"_key":"82f563240160","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"32729e14-40b9-470c-a153-78a728eda14b","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9067f6fe087e","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"BERLIN","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-936f5274d2ab2a70cd3874dce4bc18b9c133ac13-4137x4137-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"link":{"_ref":"dbe3fa6e-8b5b-43c6-b80b-f9249e4fd522","_type":"reference"},"subtitle":"PLOTTED LINES","title":"HANS DEHLINGER"},{"_key":"859a2e33b77d","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"Berlin","link":{"_ref":"96de8287-f82c-4c74-ba75-9bc544d18097","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"3a7010153164","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"Berlin","link":{"_ref":"a7438850-749c-4a96-a9ea-943eff8c0466","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-05-11T12:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"83-year-old Hans Dehlinger has lived a life with many chapters. Early on, there was the chapter when Dehlinger studied under German philosopher and logician Max Bense and alongside Frieder Nake, today one of the most well-known pioneers of computer art. Then, Dehlinger entered the Berkeley chapter, where he studied and later worked as an environmental planner and architect, before entering a chapter experimenting with plotter drawings and generative art. With a broad approach to art and an ever-curious mind, Dehlinger combined the previous chapters and knowledge and has become a pioneer of generative art.\n\nWith a focus on algorithmically generated line drawings, Dehlinger bases his generative artworks on computer code executed on pen plotters, forming delicate structures, dense textures, or even evoking an unsharp impression from sharp lines.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Hans Dehlinger discusses his career and early computer art, the past and present of generative art and the connection between science and art.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"hans-dehlinger-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"subtitle":"Plotter Drawings and Generative Art","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b7d4e6be5ac5a9dc53a43999b998684ed874976c-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"HANS DEHLINGER: HOW CAN ONE DEFINE ART?"},"teaserItems":[{"_key":"9a709766bd50","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-05-09T15:47:56Z","_id":"7f6ee2e2-f862-428c-8b8e-1387bb3d1d91","_rev":"nawG6Et7XvvKsh4YSxf80s","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-07-04T00:37:27Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"44f3485b8361","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"64d7bd935de0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64d7bd935de00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"83-year-old Hans Dehlinger has lived a life with many chapters. Early on, there was the chapter when Dehlinger studied under German philosopher and logician Max Bense and alongside Frieder Nake, today one of the most well-known pioneers of computer art. Then, Dehlinger entered the Berkeley chapter, where he studied and later worked as an environmental planner and architect, before entering a chapter experimenting with plotter drawings and generative art. With a broad approach to art and an ever-curious mind, Dehlinger combined the previous chapters and knowledge and has become a pioneer of generative art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e9e819bd90e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2c40db5f15720","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"With a focus on algorithmically generated line drawings, Dehlinger bases his generative artworks on computer code executed on pen plotters, forming delicate structures, dense textures, or even evoking an unsharp impression from sharp lines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5de6947d9af4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72797f30d810","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Hans Dehlinger discusses his career and early computer art, the past and present of generative art and the connection between science and art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b583d4752827","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Portrait of Hans Dehlinger: Courtesy the Artist. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"f7bff19765f3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a52007f8191c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fe6fcbf6ed330","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Mr. Dehlinger, Max Bense was your professor, Frieder Nake was one of your fellow students at the time. So you witnessed the early stages of generative art. What did you experience with Max Bense?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"eb2f32da770c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b067c4a93260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hans Dehlinger: I studied architecture in Stuttgart. Max Bense lectured in what was then known as the \"Studium Generale.\" I don't believe something like that exists anymore. People from all kinds of faculties gathered there. It was really exciting. There were no exams like in statics, building law, design, and so on. It was about questions concerning the art form of concrete poetry, which was fashionable at the time, about the types of language that might be used there, and about the more general question of when something is art. When does something stop being art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"894d86a11abc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1fd6f8774ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Bense's answer, very briefly: Avoid the term \"art\" altogether. The term art is far too loaded, Bense said. Therefore, introduce the term \"aesthetic event.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6bc86fb26c9b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c32e357f0ce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He once came in with a little metal art figure. \"What is this?\" Bense questioned, holding up the art figure. The entire assembly exclaimed, \"Art!\" Then he placed the figure in a vat containing something, acid maybe. Then the lecture began. Bense eventually took the figure out of the vat again and asked, \"What is this?\" \"Art!\" said everyone once more. The lesson then continued. Bense eventually took the figure out of the vat again, and it had already begun to dissolve. \"Art!\" yelled fewer and fewer people. At some point, the voices fell silent altogether."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc24ff436587","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d2b55ba17f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It is undoubtedly a lot easier to define when something is no longer art than when it is. That was Bense's point: How can one define art? How is that calculated?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dd50a9906a7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a2b82e28cfba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These lectures were extraordinarily focused and covered things that were absolutely foreign to me. The group of listeners was also interesting, because they came from all faculties of the university. There were often heated discussions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dfed04db9284","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a5e4bff30f00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As a freshman, exciting things were happening around Bense. One day, I noticed Frieder Nake observing the construction of a drawing on his plotter in the Institute for Numerical Mathematics. So as the plotter was running, and as I stood back, Nake called out to me, \"Come here and have a look! It's fairly straightforward. I'll show you how to do it.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ceb27fa60be3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c06243d9e8010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That really scared the heck out of me. I thought that if I went there and let myself be drawn into this, my architectural studies would be lost. I couldn't imagine that at the time. There were personal reasons for that. My father was very ill and I had to see that I took care of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"236967acca84","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08e1c24cbdf3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adcea3e9d7dd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: So, back then, you and your fellow students debated a lot about new developments and kept a careful eye on them. Herbert W. Franke, the pioneer of early computer art, was someone you looked up to. What captivated and moved you back then?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"34e1264ab9e5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0739992de010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: It was a very rebellious generation of students back then. Discussions about authoritarian structures were in full swing. This different way of looking at art played a major role in Max Bense's work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2a8cca41a2f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e027006085a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke had – in my understanding at that time – a completely revolutionary approach to create his \"aesthetic events\". His thoughts were related to what Frieder Nake pursued: The design of a generative principle comes before the generation of a result. That blew me away at the time. There was just this fascination that something can be generated generatively, which can then represent an aesthetic event. I consciously perceived that as something extraordinary. How something like that comes into being often played a role in Max Bense's work – the question of how these things come into being, in what way they can be triggered."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c24c5fbab8c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"ausblob_034, 2006.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4bb7ff8fcf2ee36390f3ee070b133916e2691e-510x602-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5c4bb7ff8fcf2ee36390f3ee070b133916e2691e-510x602-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e4f8f6dfe7a4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0bbb64eba240","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d09eb482d590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And how did you come across art? You began working with programming languages and computers in Stuttgart in 1966. Did you start creating art immediately?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cfff571fb6fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f18e6792f9790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: In a very figurative sense, yes. I was interested in architecture. There, too, we had discussions. We were convinced that computers would make things possible that were previously unthinkable."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bd050716af42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"014163b1df3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the subject of design, there were so-called impromptu designs. You had a few days to complete them. Then you had to present the results, which were then publicly exhibited, publicly discussed, and immediately evaluated. My best friend and I decided at the time to participate in such an impromptu design. The theme was to design a café for beachgoers in a narrow ravine on the beach overlooking the sea. I then developed a computer program that pulled together four or five terms in all possible combinations. The idea was that if you draw up a list of expressions and then generate all the possible combinations with the computer and list each of those combinations in a line as text, then each of those lines represents a \"semantic tangle.\" If one reads such a line, then a picture arises in the head. In a very rudimentary way, one then \"sees\" the café in the ravine."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3ef0b155d9c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1cf02a261e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I printed out a list of about 2400 such semantic tangles and hung it on the wall. That was – together with a small model where such a \"tangle\" hung in the gorge – my design. My friend had another idea: to plank the skeleton of an old shipwreck so that it would hang in the gorge as a café."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a75cf74652ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28ef3565e2560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We fell through with both of these designs. In my case, a long discussion ensued. There were between 50 and 100 people, including several professors. But there was no doubt about the fact that the design was not considered acceptable. In the end, though, one of my professors, someone I hold in very high regard, said, \"Who knows, maybe Dehlinger is right after all.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0043a59c9244","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"67263caedf270","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That sentence stuck with me. And that was important to me: that a teacher I respect thought maybe I was on to something."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b86dda967b63","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e95fec81d409","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2804bd0adf460","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Was that the first generative design for you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"bbbd9f9b6a42","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b9e116dc92f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Yes, and I think it was the very first time that a computer was used as a determining element in a design, so to speak, at the Faculty of Architecture in Stuttgart. The fact that I learned programming at all was something that was not required anywhere. That was purely my interest."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"32ef15cf7ff2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8054f3e9dbc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But it was no problem at all within the university to attend such a lecture. The professor who taught the programming language Algol 68 was the same professor with whom Frieder Nake did his doctorate. I must say, however, that I dropped out after a third of that lecture. My program was simple combinatorics, I could do that already at that time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"89a41689ca40","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5a9a8d2deff8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05c642c681cb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You first completed an apprenticeship as a carpenter and then your high school diploma via the secondary educational path."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"58225dfee46f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8bd2be019af80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That's right. My background is one reason why these subjects fascinated me so much – because they were absolutely foreign to me. The work environment of the carpentry, then the technical high school at an insane pace, and then the admission to the architecture department and the start of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e268344242a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69c02e0c4b870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My first walk into the university building is still fresh in my mind. It was the new structure for the architects and engineers. We were the first semester in that building. I had goosebumps as I walked through the first-floor door: now you're entering the university, I thought to myself. That was a memorable occasion. My enthusiasm wore off after exactly four semesters. Then it was the opposite: I was completely convinced that everything had to be changed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6d95d6433f2b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"MSQ_2,8,11,13|15,9,6,4|14,12,7,1|3,5,10,16|, 2010.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9a6bddb03f50b06c6a079a5b0d564310db435558-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9a6bddb03f50b06c6a079a5b0d564310db435558-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2585212faaf0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"83bad45e44f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2dad760021270","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You studied in Stuttgart and Berkeley and worked as a project manager on the Olympic Village design team in Munich. Your educational background is in architecture. When did you initially refer to yourself as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2dcb65f165d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d4f2ca32ca60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Actually, never at all. I'm an architect with heart and soul. I was also proud to be able to do this study of architecture. Frank Lloyd Wright called architecture \"the mother of the arts.\" What I did were simply things that I subsumed under that term. I didn't care if other people called it art or not."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1f2860d99755","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"100d4536d1810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was already interested in theoretical topics in architecture at the time, such as design theory. There were publications about it in professional journals. Two of those educators in the field taught at Berkeley. So I decided to try to get there. Then I earned a scholarship, which I consider a huge blessing. But that's another story."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d88bb699e25c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b73e82b9acb30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fellowship ran for three quarters of a year, as UC Berkeley was on the quarter system at the time. So when it ended, I went to my teacher to say goodbye. And then he offered me a job. The reason, as I would see it today, was that I was very involved with computers at Berkeley. And there, again, I was fortunate to have a fantastic teacher, Laura Gold, who for the first time at Berkeley taught Computers for the Humanities, which is computer applications for faculties that are not primarily mathematically oriented. Snobol 4 was the name of this language, which I learned thoroughly and worked with a lot and also drew with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4a8fd7f4c3db","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3ad2de6eead8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ca0fa65c0740","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Frieder Nake started working with plotters back then during his studies. You already stated that you chose against it despite your fascination, despite the fact that you had the feeling: Something is going on here! Why?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f3a9f5bd5f7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d25fb6a55e3a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Plotters were still very expensive back then. There was also no easy access to plotters; even at Berkeley, the plotters at the computer center were not that easily accessible. So I focused on computers and programming languages, and I also programmed with natural language at first."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a34a9f157e8c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"107807ed3310","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"baf64bda7aa10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you finally decide to try your first experiments with the plotter?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"06361a160e68","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c63b4654d9e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That was in Kassel. I offered a seminar there for students of textile design. They are well trained in algorithmic procedures. Punch cards and everything related to them come from weaving."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"332feaaa7190","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c31605e75dc80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I arrived in Kassel and wanted to do this computer course with the students. But we didn't have a computer at the art school. The electrical engineering department had a lab where one was available for the students. So I went to the engineers and asked if I could use it for one of my courses."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d4236d43ad4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d421a62bc8fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And then we made a little book and also published it; that was the very first thing. Because I didn't have a printer at that time, we also wrote all the text with the plotter. The whole booklet is written and drawn with the plotter. That was great fun. For me, that were the beginnings of generative teaching at the art school."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23b145061339","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"EVo_xf_01, 2015.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61b079a6665274b2e9eca7e077990f263aa7b175-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61b079a6665274b2e9eca7e077990f263aa7b175-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"209e3212166b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ff601aef597","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed7bb0a156850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain what you do to people who have never heard of plotters and generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4a082dceae4a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b2e178fdb000","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: In terms of generative art, I believe it is fairly straightforward and simple to explain. One is attempting to create a step-by-step manufacturing manual for a project. When it is set in motion, a result is produced. In its design, random processes play a role. Whether one calls the result art or not – I've always been hesitant to call it that. The term \"generative art\" already contains a limitation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a03551f13353","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b1385565c239","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"213c78dc0c5b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Since the 1980s, you have exhibited your art internationally."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f65bf9afb0b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cbe7726d9edd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: These exhibitions were almost always linked to academic congresses. The SIGGRAPH – Special Interest Group Graphics – is famous. There were quite a few SIGs in the ACM, the Association for Computing Machinery, but SIGGRAPH was by far the largest, because graphics computing was making such rapid progress. I was a student member of ACM during my time at Berkeley.\n\nWhen one accepts a professorship, one also has an obligation to represent one’s field in an academic setting. Participation in international conferences is one way to do that. If a paper was accepted, then it was clear that it was professionally interesting, also for the larger community. That was enough for the German Research Foundation to fund such conference visits by professors. That's how I got the funds to make trips to Los Angeles, among other places."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"54e0aecf2bf7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Exhibition View at Hallenbad Ost, Kassel, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-117c32325312ee0fd1f5e6728f3ac91113ea576d-4160x3120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-117c32325312ee0fd1f5e6728f3ac91113ea576d-4160x3120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"f54af61b0854","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"db794722fd3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2662ff3465a70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When we last spoke, you mentioned that you got the sensation that something is beginning today and that we are at the beginning of something new. How did you form this opinion?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e18f8b88829a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"abdd3cbfd30e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Language, programming, and art are all being used in emerging AI advances. Language encompasses literature, poetry, and everything else we discuss. Everything we do in terms of artistic activity is art. In terms of programming, everything we do with computers is done through programs. And this is where these AI systems come into play. What they're already doing suggests that they're going to lead breathtakingly quickly to new things that we can't even imagine yet. This approach of AI is happening now – whether we will later like it or not is another question. When we look at ChatGPT in terms of news or just sharing of facts, one really has to say the facts are starting to swim. Everything is conceivable that one could not imagine at all so far."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"066200a90c78","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c35ff10d5708","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a5202b3d10e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are part of a pioneering generation that had to fight much more fights than we do today for the acceptance of digital art. What barriers did you run up against?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"423b03901ed1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"879ae97f3dd00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: A lack of understanding regarding digital developments in general. The faculty from the art department really felt (and expressed that in meetings) that there was no need for computers in art. Mankind doesn't need computers either, they thought; computers are a temporary phenomenon that will disappear at some point. That was really the opinion of these people, who, of course, a few years later were walking around with laptops themselves. It even went so far that a budget that had been earmarked to buy computers was converted into one for cameras at a budget meeting of the art school. The cameras were then purchased; the computers were not. With the result that the cameras were all stolen six months later."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23c1746937b9","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UIK_02.2B, 2012.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fa9cb45d3bba32a29fe4f723650030e833bd511d-790x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fa9cb45d3bba32a29fe4f723650030e833bd511d-790x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"30e33826014e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a8b198ee39a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adf577effa080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did you have the impression that it was possible to tear down these walls?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9778dc14435a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f75bb32695f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: No. You can't tear down such walls, whatever it is that you do. But at the Kunsthochschule in Kassel, there was someone in every department who was interested. We then joined forces."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f5d1a27a52a9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cbe396efcca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"128dbb8b8c350","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who was that?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"caa2c5c8a36f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"68dc39b106980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: That was Prof. G. Mathias, Prof. H. Bauer and me. We initiated a lecture series called \"Design, Art, Computer: Computers at the Kunsthochschule\". In this lecture series, we invited people from outside, for example Peter Weibel, the long-time director of the ZKM in Karlsruhe, to make this topic known to the students. We were very successful with this.\n\nThe first computer pool at the Kunsthochschule came to be because of this group and with the help of these two colleagues. We later established the \"Institute for Computer Aided Representation and Design.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"217cad791400","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adb948bc11ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Throughout the university, I advocated for the founding of an interdisciplinary CAD Working Group, which ultimately comprised eight departments. This group had the necessary resources, rooms, equipment, software, and personnel. We were then able to build on this interdisciplinary working group.\n\nI would also like to mention the Society for Electronic Art and its long-time leader Dr. W. Schneider, museum director in Gladbeck, who organized an annual exhibition and introduced the Golden Plotter of the city of Gladbeck.\n\nOne thing is also critical: I had countless interactions with colleagues, students, and research assistants. It was a pleasure to work with these incredibly bright individuals. Teaching in partnership with these assistants and students in a new way – that is, much more jointly than I had experienced it as a student - gave me a lot of motivation.\n\nI would say the support actually came from those I was supposed to teach. So I certainly filled the professorship a bit differently than is the standard. And from that, again, interesting suggestions came back that otherwise wouldn't have come. We actually worked together on things that none of us had any idea about at first. Of course, that's typical for design: The task you're tackling is always unknown. You don't have a solution."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d0283a9d3a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"tree_16_on_pink, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd0f4e9a5a4d5876a5751f50b49c43d22d4273bd-1920x1081-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"977d4509054d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"197c598e2bd2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5228018f3a0d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: There are three topics that still occupy you as an artist. The line. Unsharp images. Landscapes. Looking at the history of art, landscape is a genre with a long tradition. How did you approach creating landscapes with lines and code?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"31b82c0d188e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7bf31685789","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: I begin with walking. I wonder about what I see. Walking with open senses is a privilege. It makes me happy and focused. The rewards are an abundance of visual impressions in detail and mental explorations to capture what I’ve seen in nature and around me with the means that interest me: code and plotted lines. It could be a group of tall poplars in a strong wind, a large tree branching out from its massive stem, pebbles in a dry riverbed, or a landscape stretching to disappear into the distance."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cf1bbeb733f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ec00d4ccf790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Next, trials on possible programs may follow. A programmed drawing in a plotter file contains many vectors. They have mathematical properties and can be subjected to standard mathematical transformation operations. When physically plotted, the properties and shortcomings of pen and paper and the mechanics of plotting introduce less controllable layers of visual effects that can only be judged after a plotter drawing is completed. This means there is a time-consuming process of trial and judgement before a work is finished."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fd0f803d4f29","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"129397edd781","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72ee89f9590a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your landscapes are either abstract or figurative. In 2001, you created an artwork titled YELLOW TREE, which was shown in several exhibitions. I’ve recently read an interview with Vera Molnár, which made me think of your YELLOW TREE. In it, she recalls seeing her cousin draw the trunk of a weeping willow in ultramarine blue. \"This struck me for life, it gave me the courage to transgress, to think a little differently. It was unforgettable\", she said in that interview with Vincent Baby. Why did you decide to code a yellow tree on a blue background?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a5fa41776c65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dc42b36cdd57","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: YELLOW TREE is a print. I used code from the world of plotting and ventured into the world of printing, which is very different. One cannot plot a blue background identical to the one in YELLOW TREE with a pen. You may consider blue as the idea of a wide-open and inspiring sky, and yellow is what grows and ripens on the soil of the earth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6f8e87414180","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"210979b87859","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I think moments like the one you cited from Vera Molnár are thrilling experiences and have a substantial mental impact. In 2001, it was probably far less revolutionary for me to use yellow for a tree than it may have been in Vera Molnár’s youth."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5139db6820cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"49bdc983ccee","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the design (and I use the term design deliberately) of YELLOW TREE, I was confronted with very few decisions: the design of a piece of code that makes use of randomly generated, however somehow predefined, polygonal lines consisting of straight line segments; a color for the object generated by those lines; and a color for the background. It is – in my opinion – the strictness and simplicity of this setup that are of interest for its qualification as an aesthetic event."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"351d01ab90ac","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"176dbb419e6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a16a4500bf8d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: After more than 30 years, what still fascinates you about the topic of nature?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a2e23402d050","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f64df8fe828","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Structures in or of nature are a prominent topic in art. I had a flash of insight as a young architectural student when I first encountered the photographic work of Karl Blossfeldt. And we know that many of the shaping forces in nature follow mathematical rules, e.g., the Fibonacci sequence. Order, all kinds of arrangements, but also chaos all follow rules. In the branching of trees, we encounter a fantastic variety. And if motion is added, for example, by wind, things may appear unsharp, even though they are not. For the design of aesthetic events, we can play with the shortcomings of human sight. I did that in the two examples of TREE_16 ON BLUE and TREE_16_ON_PINK."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2737a8ff5ddb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6fb5d35fef0c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There is another aspect hidden in the generative concept of YELLOW TREE that is very important to me. I regard it as fundamental for my code-generated line art. When drawing a line, no matter by which process it comes into existence, its starting point is placed deliberately. It is an important decision. We can mentally reduce a generative drawing to a set of starting points on a plane."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bf6444a0032a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b803ef6ac48a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And in the code, these points really do exist. I think it is important to see the tremendous freedom of decision we have in generative art. We can generate an entire line drawing from a tiny, arbitrary area on a plane filled with a very large number of starting points, or we can also see the other extreme as well: an entire drawing from only one single starting point. In many of my works, I have followed this line of thought right from the beginning."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b0befd73740e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Yellow Tree, 2001.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a67b81e8cfc91025be749ff0c500566c61f9e829-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a67b81e8cfc91025be749ff0c500566c61f9e829-1024x1025-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"f653b9158f32","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89d35f372f22","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8c483bcbd290","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You worked constantly with plotters and dealt with questions attentively and patiently. What motivated you at the time and led you to work with mechanically generated lines? What did you discover about lines?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd6ebe52fd62","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34206e2a298a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: The line is extremely intriguing to me. Actually, rock paintings are where art begins. The line is straightforward. There is a beginning and an end point. What occurs in the meantime is entirely up to chance. I assert that there is a line universe. It's a distinct, limitless universe.\n\nThe interesting thing about these early plotter artists is that they each developed their own type of line for their drawings. Jean-Pierre Hébert, Roman Verostko and I developed different line types with the programs. You can immediately identify these drawings. This is a Hébert. This is a Verostko, this is a Dehlinger."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d8895e24be4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"700fcf3a55a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For this, it is necessary to grasp the line algorithmically. I did it like this: The beginning is set relatively clearly. The end point can be left open for the time being. And what happens in between – you have to program some things for that.\n\nIn my case, this is a polygonal line, i.e. a polyline. There are length differences, angles, spread and more. You can program all this and influence it with random numbers.\n\nFor this reason, the line is an elementary and fascinating entity that lends itself very well to algorithmic generative approaches. You may also create surfaces, which I did as well. When the lines are tight and parallel, the drawing forms a surface."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e8565fd50b05","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"042b5f1c1e63","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8adf816a3150","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you get started on a new piece?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"03e0607acfaa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e41051fb7aa70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Often a question is in my mind for an extended period of time. I begin by taking notes and gradually get more concrete. This can take a long time. I've been working on a project involving three-dimensional sculptures for several years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"53ccaa748eb6","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Algorists (from left to right): Roman Verostko, Channa Horwitz, Jean-Pierre Hébert and Hans Dehlinger in Channa Horwitz's studio in Santa Monica, CA, USA, 2005.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2420a7c9274ad43dc50ffce75c5e672b7bb8c1b-796x298-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2420a7c9274ad43dc50ffce75c5e672b7bb8c1b-796x298-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"0952cd2e1358","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0d0aa5e1688f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07f6016a2f590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has anything changed in your influences from then to now?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"637dee607732","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fef8fea98e5a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: It's getting harder and harder to get the old plotters repaired. Maybe that's why I'm exploring the 3D field now: because once again there are new technologies to do stuff with."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7fbcbf3c98fb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4cf29de67dfc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4cf29de67dfc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Does your architectural background have an impact on your artistic work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1669bdaf093d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c496c507358e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Definitely. And, in particular, the design theory that I mentioned previously. The imagination – it’s exactly what Max Frisch does in his novel \"Mein Name sei Gantenbein\"; he was an architect. He uses this recurring phrase: \"I imagine...\" That is the constant preoccupation of architects: how do you come up with an idea? What is your interpretation of something? What is the answer?\n\nAnd these solutions are never what is known as an optimum in mathematics, such as an optimal point. There is no such thing here. It is equally optimal to be here or there. However, it is not equally good. Design theory is a wonderful foundation for such work - envision, grasp, and then create. You can then judge the result, others can judge it, and you can alter it. Typically many such iterations are developed, condensed, and then one or two are picked."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d3fcd84944e2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Berlin Airport Express, 2007.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2bee600d25ee59849204945d03ade7e9892125aa-576x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2bee600d25ee59849204945d03ade7e9892125aa-576x576-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2e78eac14740","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"16ad93227b66","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e658ebfb0fb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is abstract art something that influences you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5ed37caa107f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b98139cbb1370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: I believe that ideas for these things can come from everywhere. It can be abstract art or even a train schedule, as in my \"Berlin Airport Express\" project. Or a cigarette vending machine. I imagined at the time that these five brands, Roth-Händle, Ernte, and so on, may serve as the basis for a generative drawing. So the occasions are so diverse and multi-layered that no definitive assertion can be made in regards to their origin.\n\nWhen we were in China, it was difficult to convince students that a drawing without a figure is art. Art is entirely arbitrary. Finally I said to the students: \"We're going to do a 'random walk' with the camera. You hold the camera in your hand, pick how far you want to go straight ahead, how many degrees you want to turn, how close you want to get, and then press the shutter. Then there's the occasion for your art, which is what's in the picture.” One of them really got it and and then used it to create some really amazing abstract paintings."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"71c126bb5aff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4ee12932a8ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So actually you can use any occasion, anything that comes into your head. You just have to put some thought into it. You have to analyze and, of course, have some knowledge of what conditions generative art has and what you need for it. Then you can take sounds, colours, objects, collages, patterns etc. and create aesthetic events from them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"65a2cc36db16","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bec1b0600822","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6612e34290940","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have been following the evolution and history of generative art for several decades and have actively contributed to shaping it. What do you imagine art and technology to be like in five years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"610a3da90e2b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"962e1ed4bf320","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: The terms art and technology, or rather, this pair of terms – art in conjunction with technology – I’m sure will continue to exist, regardless of how technology advances. Artists will always find a way to interconnect the two. It is far more difficult to forecast where technology will go."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"028ddb181f35","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c1782f8b52020","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, I do not believe AI will completely replace generative approaches. Certainly AI can be used generatively. You may also say that the \"generative\" in generative art arose in the last 30-40-50 years, with people like Herbert W. Franke serving as forerunners. It's not like what's being done with programs now is entirely novel."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c29394550f97","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"427e5b2677b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It could also be that the AI becomes so independent that it simply spits out art, daily, always new art, somewhere, everywhere. That it feels the need to produce itself, to impose itself, and then the AI produces and places art everywhere. Seriously? I don't know."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d8ed506938ee","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"exq0_vers_2pos_1.2_bw, 2015. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fb4f4fe4427a906147440b8526166f3fda073c47-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fb4f4fe4427a906147440b8526166f3fda073c47-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"2246a44d8bc3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"beae42183e45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a73ddbf279120","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look back on all the battles you had to fight, such as the fight for the acquisition of computers at the university: Do you have any advice for artists who have to fight battles again today, for example over the acceptance of artificial intelligence in art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"77c2326448c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24f1897c90260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HD: Don't let circumstances distract you. By all means, keep going. 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His practice explores a range of themes, including landscape, anthropogenic change, and technological consumption. In his work, he uses technology to question itself and the narrative that human societies and technology are somehow separate from the natural world, asking instead, how are they entangled and embedded within each other?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ac864f157950","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8bcc1d347ab90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Dev Harlan has exhibited in the US and internationally and has permanent commissions with corporate and private collectors. Dev is a 2020 NYFA Fellowship Finalist in Digital Media Arts and winner of the 2022 Mozaik Artist Grant. Solo exhibitions include those at Christopher Henry Gallery (NY) and Gallery Madison Park (NY). Group shows include NOOR at the Sharjah Art Museum, the New Museum’s IDEAS CITY NY, and the Singapore Light Art Festival. 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CHRIS COLEMAN & DEV HARLAN: THIN NATURES
22 NOVEMBER – 6 DECEMBER 2023
THIN NATURES explores the fraught interface between the natural and the technological and employs strategies for dismantling the contested binary between human and non-human worlding.
Both artists employ digital ways of seeing, specifically 3D scanning and rendering, to investigate fragile ecologies and lithospheric deep time. Through the lens of the digital, both artists engage with sites of entanglement—thin leaves meet thin meshes, landscapes resist grid planes, and extractive waste confronts the animacy of the geological.
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
ELEMENT LEE: PIXEL CARTOGRAPHY
13-18 MAY 2024
EXPANDED.ART presents the first EXPANDED DISCOVERIES artist. Element Lee is a Chinese digital artist based in Vienna. He studied art theory at the China Central Academy of Fine Arts in Beijing and is now a M.A. student in digital arts at the University of Applied Arts Vienna (die angewandte) in the class of UBERMORGEN.
Element Lee explores the relationship between humans, technology, and nature. He creates pixel drawings with mobile phones and expands them to physical media like laser, robotic drawing, and 3D printing.
\"My aesthetic foundation draws from two primary sources. One is classical Chinese drawings depicting gardens and architecture. The other is pixel art from retro computer games. I was exposed to both growing up in China: one represents tradition and the past, while the other symbolizes digital innovation and the future. This blend evokes feelings of nostalgia while also sparking thoughts about future possibilities.\"
\n– Element Lee
\nNFT DROP: 16 MAY 2024 | 6 PM CET
\nEXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
PHOTO FINISH by Far explores the impact of technological progress, in concrete AI, and its influence on visual culture, featuring the horse as a central symbol. The artwork references its historical significance in the work of Eadweard Muybridge, where the horse served as an object for capturing the passage of time with photography and ultimately led to the development of motion pictures.
\nPHOTO FINISH explores the introduction of new technological players in the visual production process, specifically focusing on AI-generated images of horse races.
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\nWILLIAM LATHAM: MUTATOR INFINITY
14 MAY – 4 JUNE 2024
MIRROR CUBES by William Latham is a series of 16 images created with the MUTATOR AI system, which the artist developed with programmer Stephen Todd. It is a blast of color and floral exuberance, influenced by Impressionist landscape painting and artists such as Gustav Klimt.
EXPANDED.ART | GALLERY
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
In physics, quantum noise refers to the noise of uncertainty arising from random fluctuations in a system. Tapping into these random fluctuations as a unique realm of possibilities and predictions, Refik Anadol’s QUANTUM MEMORIES: NOISE series uses Google Quantum AI’s most cutting-edge, publicly available quantum computation research data and algorithms to explore the possibility of a parallel world.
\n\nPresented by KÖNIG GALERIE as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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\"If you could go back and read your teenage diaries, would you?\"
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Part of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
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MARGARET MURPHY: RE: ROAD TRIP
2-13 NOVEMBER 2023
\"Many folks may ask me why I do not train an AI on my own images. For me, it’s about the element of the unexpected that is akin to photographing on the road. The element of chance, thanks primarily to the nature of AI generation without explicit knowledge of the data sets Midjourney is trained on, felt like the unexpected photographic encounters of my road trips, often impossible to recreate. The thrill of an image revealing itself was familiar, and I embraced it.\"
– Margaret Murphy
RE: ROAD TRIP by Margaret Murphy is a series of 150 AI-generated images reimagining the historically influential photographic genre of the road trip through the perspective of the contemporary female gaze. Murphy considers how this revered category has shaped and defined contemporary fine art photography using style influences, including artists such as Stephen Shore, Ed Ruscha, and Joel Sternfeld.
EXPANDED.ART | SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
View the collection on OpenSea.
ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
A JONAS LUND TOKEN (JLT) FUTURE is a forward contract that enables you to bet on the future value of Jonas Lund’s artworks and the JLT itself.
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– Maria Mavropoulou
Presented by KÖNIG GALERIE as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024. AI IN CONTEXT #2, 17–24 November 2024, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
\"Summer 2022 – We traveled from LA to Anaheim, Santa Monica, Bakersfield, Monterey Bay, Watsonville, Santa Cruz, Point Reyes, Guerneville, Mountain View, and San Francisco, taking pictures all along the way. It was a family trip capturing the vision and vibes of California. The roads, deserts, fields of artichokes, strawberries, chickpeas, and vineyards of grapes; the ocean, wildlife, and the trees—oh, the trees. The great redwoods. Over 2,000 images fed the model. The abundance of open space and nature has eliminated man-made objects and people from the model, despite the multitude of vehicles photographed.\"
\n– Bård Ionson
\nPresented by MakersPlace as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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the collection on OpenSea.
\nVOICES OF WEB3 is an archive of voices and statements summarising the year 2023 in digital art and culture. It is a document in time on the blockchain, bringing together some of the leading voices shaping Web3 and the history of digital art: artists, curators, and collectors.
\nTHE VOICE GEMS
The statements have been recorded in the form of spoken word, poems, and songs by the contributors and are frozen in time as VOICE GEMS on the blockchain. The VOICE GEMS were created by Harry Yeff (Reeps100) and Trung Bao, who have developed a voice-centred generative system utilizing data found in a human voice to synthesise the form and colour of the artwork.
Every voice is unique, and with that comes unique fingerprint-like data. Features like pitch, resonance, harmonics, and pace sculpt particle data points in a simulated digital space.
TRANSCRIPT
\"In a vast expanse of ones and zeros, we find fertile ground for collaboration and inspiration. Artists and thinkers converge, forming the interconnected fibers of this Web3 tapestry. But let us not forget that its true essence is not found in the perfection of algorithms but in the imperfections of the human spirit. Whether we are blanketed in nostalgia or overzealously chasing the horizon of an unknown future, it is our humanity that sets us apart from the sterile sea of digital conformity. May our voices, our creativity, and our ever-curious minds find ways to transcend the machine-like limitations imposed in this technological age.\"
– Skye Nicolas
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract address: 0xA8E5Ec62bfec3906817cBb56728523e65E2e681d
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
\"We now live in a world in which both history and facts are personal choices. The arrival of Artificial Intelligence means that every lie can now have convincing visual evidence. Now, everything is true, and nothing is true.\" – Phillip Toledano
\nANOTHER AMERICA challenges the notion of truth in photography, blurring the lines between reality and fiction. Set against the backdrop of the 1940s and 1950s—a time when photographic imagery held a unique sense of veracity—the project transports viewers to a parallel universe where historical events take unexpected turns.
\nFrom surreal landscapes to hauntingly realistic scenes, each AI-generated image invites audiences to question their perceptions and reconsider the narratives that shape our understanding of the past.
\nFinally, how else to address the idea of uncertainty than with the technology, Artificial Intelligence, that is making the world uncertain?
IN THE PRESS (SELECTED)
\"The artist politely declined The Washington Post’s request to list some of his prompts, saying that they are part of his 'magic spells.' His reservation is further proof that AI is a creative tool.\" – Washington Post, 17 January 2024
\"I think a lot of people have this reflex to say, you know: 'A machine made this. There’s no humanity, there’s no soul in these pictures.' But I would argue there’s extraordinary soul in the pictures that AI makes. I would also argue that it’s kind of ironic because, guess what all the painters were saying about photography when photography became a thing in the 1850s? There was no humanity in it. There was no soul in it because a machine was taking the pictures. So here we are again, saying exactly the same thing.\" – Phillip Toledano, In: LensCulture
In geology, the term \"phase diagram\" describes graphical representations of the physical states of a substance under varying conditions of temperature and pressure. In this series of works, PHASE DIAGRAMS, Jennifer & Kevin McCoy use StableDiffusion, a deep learning text-to-image AI, to generate detailed images from text descriptions.
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\nTHE BEGINNING AND END OF BOOKS is an experimental practice in transformation, interpretation, and misinterpretation.
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\nWHEN: 18 October 2024, 6 PM CET
\nWHAT IS IT: This is the second NFT by Gottfried Jäger. It is the first to be minted through the artist’s wallet and released with a print: 40 x 40 cm, Hahnemühle FineArt Pearl 285, hand-signed.
\nWHY IT‘S WORTH COLLECTING: Under the influence of Max Bense and Herbert W. Franke, Gottfried Jäger devised a radicalised form of the image, which he first called GENERATIVE PHOTOGRAPHY in 1968 at a joint exhibition with Kilian Breier, Pierre Cordier and Hein Gravenhorst at the Kunsthaus Bielefeld.
\nWHAT THE ARTIST SAYS: \"The term GENERATIVE PHOTOGRAPHY was introduced in 1968 with the intention of conceiving and establishing the photographic process as an image-generating 'generative system.'\"
\nHOW IT WAS CREATED: \"The PHOTO series is based on the application of the computer program Adobe Photoshop®. However, unlike usual, it does not start with a photo as the source motif; instead, the program produces its own images. It essentially plays with itself. Original formal potentials emerge without being 'disturbed' by an external image motif. What is visible is solely the syntax of the program: brightness, contrast, colors, textures, etc. Neither images (icons) nor symbols are created, but rather pure form images (indices, symptoms) formalism.\" – Gottfried Jäger
\nCURATOR: Anika Meier
COLLABORATOR: Photo Edition Berlin
TEXTBLOCKS by Sasha Stiles is a series of 1 of 1 adaptations of the title of an AI-powered poem in Stiles’ book, TECHNELEGY, which considers what it means to be human in a nearly posthuman era.
\nPresented by Objkt.one as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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Franke, with which the basic arithmetic operations such as addition and subtraction, multiplication and division as well as differentiation and integration could be carried out. This was how the graphic elements were developed, mostly curves, combined in two-channel superimposition – corresponding to the ordinate and abscissa of two-dimensional representations.
\nA cathode ray oscillograph borrowed from an electronics hobbyist served as the output device. The calculated configurations appeared on its screen in green on a black background. The parameters that determined the shape could be changed interactively and under visual control (series of oscillograms).
Because the oscilloscope's screen was only two inches across, the area captured by the camera was uncomfortably small. Therefore, for a series of these oscillograms, the camera with black-and-white film was moved past the screen in space with the aperture open, which resulted in a typical fanning out of the basic figure (series of pendulum oscillograms).
HEINRICH HEIDERSBERGER: ESPACE THE DARKNESS. RHYTHMOGRAMS, 1953-1965
29 AUGUST - 9 SEPTEMBER 2023
On view is a selection of RHYTHMOGRAMS Heinrich Heidersberger has created since the early 1950s using a self-built drawing machine. He had an influence on the history of generative photography and algorithmic art with his RHYTHMOGRAMS which are, among others, in the collection of the Museum of Modern Art in New York, and influenced contemporaries such as Jean Cocteau and Herbert W. Franke.
\nThe RHYTHMOGRAPH, as Heidersberger called his device, was redesigned several times and perfected. The larger version, which was made of conventional scaffolding, still stands fully functional in the exhibition room of the Heidersberger Institute today and takes up close to twenty square meters of floor space. Using four harmonically muffled pendulums, it creates traces of light on photographic material via a mechanically linked mirror and a point source of light. Three-dimensional images are produced by controlling the frequency, phase difference, amplitude, and transmission of the pendulums—two drive the mirror vertically and two horizontally.
\nEXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
Since the early 1960s, Gottfried Jäger has been working in the field of \"abstract\" photography. He regards the photographic process not only as a medium for conveying external conditions but as an artistic object in its own right.
\nWith this approach, he is the forerunner of a new generation of photographic artists such as James Welling, Walid Beshty, Liz Deschenes, Marco Breuer, and others. In over fifty years of visual practice, his name has become one of the best known in German photographic art.
Presented in collaboration with Photo Edition Berlin.
STANZFORM (Theme and Variations VI) is a series of artworks by Gottfried Jäger, created in 1965. This series, along with the Rasterfelder works from the same year, represents a transition in Jäger's art from object-related, to free, non-object-related designs. The STANZFORM series features grid indents that take on their own form and meaning within the broader context of the Rasterfelder group.
\nGottfried Jäger has been working in the field of abstract photography since the early 1960s. He sees photography not just as a medium to capture external conditions but as an artistic object in itself. Throughout his over fifty years of artistic practice, Jäger has become one of the most renowned names in German photographic art. In 2014, he received the Culture Prize of the German Society for Photography, which recognized his artistic achievements and contributions as a photo theorist and historian.
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\nPresented in collaboration with Photo Edition Berlin.
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\nPresented by Photo Edition Berlin as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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\nPierre Cordier, a Belgian artist, is credited as the creator of the chemigram, a photographic image made without the use of a camera. The chemigram is based on the reaction of photosensitive paper with developer and fixer, combining the physical properties of color (such as oil-varnish, wax, and oil) with the chemical processes used in photography (photosensitive layers, developer, and fixer). Cordier's chemigrams are created without a camera or an enlarger, using only natural daylight and influencing the photochemical reactions during the developing and fixing processes. He positions the chemigram between the realms of photography, painting, ceramics, and intaglio printmaking, utilizing chance and randomness as crucial elements in his creative process.
\nIn 1956, Cordier created the first chemigram, and in 1963, he copyrighted the term. His innovative approach garnered recognition from influential figures in the field, such as Otto Steinert, who invited Cordier to visit Saarbrücken in 1958. Steinert acknowledged that the chemigrams represented a significant step in the development of artistic photography, praising Cordier's ability to create precise structures and colors that surpass those achievable by painters.
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\nPresented by Photo Edition Berlin as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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One of the works from this series, a silkscreen print of CUBE 4, was Hans Dehlinger‘s first contribution to SIGGRAPH in 1989. Today, it is in the collection of the V&A Museum, London.
In the 1980s, Hans Dehlinger created a series of cubes as pen plotter drawings. Almost 40 years later, the now-84-year-old artist returned to this topic, and 10 new cubes, titled LINE CUBES, are emerging from code as \"aesthetic events\".
EXPANDED.ART x FOUNDATION
NFT DROP: 4 JULY 2024 | 6 PM CET
\nThe PROCEDURAL DRAWINGS by Agoston Nagy are a collection of consistent structures where each artwork forms part of a larger group with similar image architecture, uniform resolution, and pen width but varying colors from a predetermined palette. While each piece is monochromatic, it is the quality and density of the lines that provide the dramatic effect across the scenes.
Part of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
PIGEON FUTURES ARCHIVE by Ziyang Wu is a collection of AI-generated pigeons that investigates the role of pigeons in future network infrastructure and their connections to various communication systems.
\nInspired by Helga Tawil-Souri’s theory of the Internet Pigeon Network (IPN), the work proposes an alternative internet access infrastructure based on homing pigeons, replacing electricity and data-based artificial intelligence with bio-intelligence.
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\nThe work emerged during Britain’s BSE crisis, when the practice of feeding cattle with processed animal remains led to the widespread outbreak of \"mad cow disease.\" Davis transforms this agricultural nightmare into a series of dark procedural fictions where different species—wolves, vultures, and lizards—rise up against humanity.
\nUnlike modern AI's statistical approach to text generation, MA4 STORY GENERATOR uses a carefully structured \"expert system\" with predefined word banks. This early form of Procedural Story Generation (PSG) contrasts with today's machine learning methods, which train on vast datasets to predict likely word sequences. While contemporary curator Georg Bak describes it as \"a precursor of ChatGPT,\" the work’s methodical deconstruction and rebuilding of narrative create striking juxtapositions that reveal new meanings while maintaining thematic coherence.
\nIt was released by Micro Arts on the Prestel teletext network and as a data cassette, and it was exhibited at the London Film-Makers' Coop's summer show in 1985.
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\nPresented by Blueshift by Diane Drubay as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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CROSSLUCID: DWELLERS BETWEEN THE WATERS. SCENES FROM THE FILM
21 SEPTEMBER - 30 SEPTEMBER 2023
DWELLERS BETWEEN THE WATERS (2023) is a multi-channel AI-driven film conjured as a series of hybrid rituals that mediate the space in between physical presence, trauma, memory, healing, and virtuality.
\nEXPANDED.ART SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
Aaron Huey’s series GASOLINE GARDENS addresses the topic of climate change through decorative wallpaper. The artwork, created with AI trained on his photographic archive, invites viewers to engage with transformed images of environmental crises in their everyday spaces.
\nInspired by 18th-century tapestries, GASOLINE GARDENS references a past era of global transformation by depicting historical wallpaper patterns such as chinoiserie, with its idealized exotic landscapes, and Toile de Jouy, with its pastoral scenes. In 2024, Huey incorporates these decorative formats as text prompts in a model trained on his climate change photography archive. Colorful florals intermingle with spirals of smoke, industrial refineries, and diminishing forests, blurring the lines between aesthetic appreciation and ecological awareness.
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\n– Niceaunties
\nPresented by Fellowship as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024. AI in Context #2, 17-24 November 2024, Heilig-Geist-Kirche, Essen, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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\nPresented by MUD Gallery as part of REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024: AI in Context #2, 17–24 November 2024, at Heilig Geist, on the occasion of the AI Biennale in Essen, Germany.
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Their ideas and networks opened access to new, previously overlooked artistic positions that are experiencing a renaissance today, especially in connection with AI art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2be61f08cc86","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4a2cc5b577b00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst made significant contributions that transformed the understanding of photography and generative art. Jäger, a theorist and practitioner, introduced the concept of the GENERATIVE IMAGE, emphasizing the creative potential of photography beyond mere representation. He explored mathematical principles and systematic processes, paving the way for algorithmic thinking in photography. Hein Gravenhorst approached photography with a scientific sensitivity, using a custom-built apparatus to investigate light and transformation, creating abstract, geometric compositions. His blend of rigorous experimentation and poetic expression gave his work a timeless quality. Both artists later embraced digital techniques, continuing to explore generative aesthetics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e0b9e8c7d73b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"96953383cb520","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Jäger's series of MOSAICS, initiated in 1994, reflects the expansion of artistic possibilities during the digital revolution, inspired by Vilém Flusser's writings. Together, Jäger and Gravenhorst bridged the gap between art and science, demonstrating that photography can explore perception, form, and logic beyond documentation. Their pioneering work continues to influence contemporary discussions on algorithms and computational processes in art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0b2a6541812f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"55087f6e4ff30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the occasion of the exhibition by Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst, presented jointly by Photo Edition Berlin and EXPANDED.ART, Anika Meier and Gunther Dietrich discuss the beginnings of Photo Edition Berlin, the history of generative photography, and how Jäger and Gravenhorst have shaped the history of photography, as well as how NFTs are changing the digital art market."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"272b524f6aa5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ddfbd8437a53","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"36842bfc93b10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Photo Edition Berlin has been around since 2008. Although \"Photo\" is in your name, you do much more. You are one of the galleries in Germany, alongside DAM Gallery in Berlin, that have been early on engaged with the history of computer art, generative art, and generative photography. Did you start with photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"79173b300b79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73d0be3293e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Gunther Dietrich: In fact, one of our first exhibitions since 2008 was with Gottfried Jäger, the founder of Generative Photography. At that time, this art form was still a largely overlooked topic in the history of academic photography, although Jäger had written numerous publications and theoretical works on it since 1968. I mention this right at the beginning because he always emphasized that \"Photo\" is spelled with \"Ph\"—an allusion to the Greek word for light."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2390d4bc39c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d5448f9de3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The name Photo Edition Berlin was programmatic from the start: \"Photography\" means \"drawn with light,\" and \"Edition\" emphasizes photography as the reproduction medium par excellence. Berlin in the name stands for the location that allows us to work with photographers based here—from both East and West Berlin."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3cc7237ee7f1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd6a4f4f6314","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At that time, there were only a few galleries in Germany dedicated exclusively to photography—besides us, for example, the galleries of Rudolf Kicken, In Focus Galerie by Burkhard Arnold in Cologne, and Daniel Blau in Munich."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e810f8869078","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1144ebcb7fe70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Additionally, we must not forget Galerie Clarissa, founded in 1970 by Käthe Schroeder in Hannover, which was Germany’s first photography gallery and played a pioneering role in the development of photographic art. At a time when photography was not yet recognized as a standalone art form, the gallery provided a platform for photographers to present experimental and boundary-pushing works. It significantly contributed to establishing photography as a serious art form in Germany. Its early exhibitions, focusing on social and political themes, were especially noteworthy. Despite this groundbreaking achievement, Käthe Schroeder’s contribution to the world of photography is largely forgotten today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"726d47e035b9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8afdfe7e9c30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Most galleries at that time had photography merely as part of their commercial program. The discourse was significantly shaped by the Düsseldorf School, especially through the teachings and students of Bernd & Hilla Becher and Joseph Beuys, who gained great international recognition."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0e2cee8ed0c3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Käthe Schroeder with guest and Herbert W. Franke. Artwork displayed by Hein Gravenhorst.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-60dd1a5f331f3b46d2d5a1335ea5d5abd59eb2f2-1600x1541-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-60dd1a5f331f3b46d2d5a1335ea5d5abd59eb2f2-1600x1541-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right","link":{"_ref":"1f1448be-7eb3-47f5-9ed8-4313b1531327","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9613129bf29d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5346eb13765d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7bfe6b64e9a10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you get into photography, Gunther?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd6ff9cef366","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b07e2969aaa20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"b07e2969aaa21","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" My own journey into photography led me back to Berlin in 1994 after a stay in New York, where I studied at the University of the Arts under Dieter Appelt and Katharina Sieverding. I had known Katharina since my time at the University of Fine Arts in Hamburg. Her influence on my understanding of art was formative—especially through her interpretation of Beuys' concept of \"social sculpture.\" Her view on the political and social dimensions of art has significantly shaped my own understanding of art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4e8d4b796497","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a4cadca719f60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My interest in photography developed further when I attended a summer academy course by Gottfried Jäger in 1992. I had long been fascinated by his theoretical works and artistic pieces. When I decided to establish a gallery dedicated exclusively to photography, he was one of the first artists I invited to be part of the project."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"95f28975733c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0fde8ab6f32b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, photography was not just an academic or artistic interest for me; it was deeply rooted in my personal life. My father was a commercial photographer—actually an artist—and I grew up in an environment heavily influenced by photography. This connection between the commercial side and the artistic potential of photography has significantly shaped my view of the medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"892bab894b00","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1965d1901aa00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"From the beginning, my goal was to free photography from its purely commercial context and establish it as an independent artistic medium—beyond documentary, fashion, portrait, and product photography. The support of pioneers like Gottfried Jäger and theorists like Max Bense and Herbert W. Franke was crucial in this endeavor. Their ideas and networks opened up access to new, previously overlooked artistic positions that are experiencing a renaissance today—especially in connection with AI art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3c4078d32a15","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d17d86fa9f300","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But yes, we started with \"photography.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"71bbac2ac348","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4073049eaebd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5f334dd8c13f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did it come about that you showed more than just photography and continue to do so to this day? For a very long time, there was hardly any market for art created with technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"48d5cde58532","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"012955c344480","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"012955c344481","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Our journey started with discovering the artistic positions of \"Generative and Concrete Photography,\" which is precisely what brings us together today for this interview. The exhibition of Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst at EXPANDED.ART, for which we feel deeply honored to collaborate with you and the artists, is a true culmination of these early explorations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"361e43be4d4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c96db20b941a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Yes, it’s quite fascinating to think about the environment in which these early pioneers, like Frieder Nake and Hein Gravenhorst, were working. The late 1960s were a time of massive political and social upheaval, and technology was viewed with suspicion. Everything that had a technical aspect was often associated with military innovations and the Cold War. It wasn’t the best time for an art form that relied on machines and programming to take root. People were rebelling against anything they saw as too closely tied to the establishment or power structures, including technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"92024b227979","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6db07dc590210","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Frieder Nake and Hein Gravenhorst, however, were visionaries who saw the creative potential in technology long before society was ready to appreciate it. They worked with the Zuse machine, one of the earliest computers, exploring the artistic possibilities of programming. It’s almost ironic that in such a rebellious time, when everyone was focused on counterculture, these artists were quietly revolutionizing the future of art with computers—tools that most people couldn’t even imagine as part of the creative process."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"117cd8f48a2f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4b62e84851780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Though they initially wanted to continue working together at the TU Stuttgart, life took them in different directions. Nake moved to Canada, where he taught at universities in Toronto and Vancouver before returning to Germany in 1972 to teach interactive computer graphics in Bremen. Despite the distance, both Nake and Gravenhorst continued to push forward with their experiments, laying the foundation for what we now consider a whole new genre of art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"124e7e3cdaa9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eacdcd23cf5d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It’s interesting to note that, back then, there was little space or attention for the intersection of art and science. Society was busy questioning its past and fighting against the status quo, and what these artists were doing was quietly groundbreaking. They weren’t loud revolutionaries, but their work certainly created a revolution in the way we think about art, technology, and creativity. They were ahead of their time, and it took decades for the world to catch up."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"64492826d9ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b8cc60e2a740","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"What’s also interesting is the context in which all of this happened: In the 1960s, during the peace movement and the height of the Cold War, anything technical was viewed with suspicion. Most innovations were associated with the U.S. military or NATO intelligence, and there was widespread aversion to anything with a technical aspect. It was all seen as part of the military-industrial complex."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"19a6add7a91d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8508e95c7f950","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But let’s not forget—as you have said—there was no market for this kind of art back then, especially in the context of photography. Even today, it’s only gradually finding its place. If you look at the ongoing discussions around AI art, it feels like a continuation of the same ignorance. However, these very debates have sparked renewed interest in the origins of digital art and its impact on society. It’s fascinating to see how this topic has become a significant part of public discourse, extending far beyond just the art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"41cadcc0ad4a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28a529e55abb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And now, here we are—honoring that tradition and showcasing these groundbreaking works in an era where technology is once again transforming the art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ffca7d9b65d9","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst in 1968, holding a piece of charcoal. This photograph captures the initial moment of the beginning of Generative Photography.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6a657c7cfa80a09888e172b7c796b1178371f84a-1600x1380-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6a657c7cfa80a09888e172b7c796b1178371f84a-1600x1380-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e886b69c9f8c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7fde1d4c2901","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a87336c6975d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you learn about these artists and their works? Was it through books?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ed556835c56b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b2988bb3b960","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"b4f2a0b3c452","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" It was a combination of things. I initially studied philosophy and comparative literature at the University of Stuttgart from 1989 to 1991. Max Bense was a monumental figure during my time there, although he had already left by then. His influence, however, was still deeply felt. Bense was instrumental in developing modern semiotics and information aesthetics, laying the groundwork for computer art. He worked with artists like Frieder Nake and Georg Nees, pioneers of generative art, and his interdisciplinary approach to philosophy and science left a lasting impression on me. Bense showed us that technology and art aren't separate; they can inform and elevate one another."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cd1650c45bcd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"93164fff49b00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At the time, I had no idea how important he would become for my work. The artists we represent today—like Gottfried Jäger, Hein Gravenhorst, and Frieder Nake—were all heavily influenced by Bense. After completing my basic studies, I decided to switch paths and pursue a degree in art, which ultimately brought me to Berlin."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5a6ea746c1e5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3762911b38780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My exposure to generative photography came through various channels. I visited exhibitions that showcased contemporary photography within a broader artistic context. A major influence was the ZKM (Center for Art and Media) in Karlsruhe and its program under Peter Weibel. There were also key publications that shaped my understanding of the field."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f065f747de48","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0b128049d1c60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For example, Susan Sontag’s ON PHOTOGRAPHY (1977) offered an in-depth look at the ethical and aesthetic implications of photography in society. Roland Barthes’ CAMERA LUCIDA (1980) also had a huge impact on me, especially with his concepts of \"studium\" and \"punctum,\" which analyze the emotional and intellectual engagement involved in viewing photographs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"680441326788","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"469b3c04f4680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Vilém Flusser’s TOWARDS A PHILOSOPHY OF PHOTOGRAPHY (1983) was another significant work. Flusser argued that photography isn’t just a technical medium but a tool that fundamentally shapes how we perceive and communicate. He saw photographs as active constructions of reality rather than passive representations, and this critical understanding of images deeply influenced my approach to art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"eaad40f9218c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d6b73c737d6e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Then there’s Gottfried Jäger’s work, particularly his book ABSTRACT, CONCRETE, AND GENERATIVE PHOTOGRAPHY, which was crucial in merging the theoretical and practical aspects of photography. His collaboration with Bernd Stiegler has been essential in gaining recognition for generative photography. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"317e0a2d6630","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bbcda25d004c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On a more philosophical note, thinkers like Martin Heidegger, especially in his BEING AND TIME, and Günther Anders, with his THE OBSOLESCENCE OF MAN, also shaped my perspective on the role of technology in human existence, which inevitably ties back to how I see photography as an artistic medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"93a94f9ab99a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Gottfried Jäger, Punktum, Generative Image (computer generated), 2000. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-587ee928a40e9ff515261b8de759ecf8d9c47767-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-587ee928a40e9ff515261b8de759ecf8d9c47767-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"da19a19006cf","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a00904b0f8fa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45189d170e100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Can you recommend any books for someone who wants to explore generative photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7f9a6c844503","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bda9bf494f300","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"8ed166a58280","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" While there’s a limited amount of English-language literature on generative photography, I can point to some key works. One notable publication is SHAPE OF LIGHT: 100 YEARS OF PHOTOGRAPHY AND ABSTRACT ART from Tate Modern. This book, which accompanied an exhibition, features artists like Gottfried Jäger and Inge Dick. It provides a thorough overview of how photography has intersected with abstract art over the past century. The exhibition and publication both highlight the pivotal role of light in artistic practice, and it's a valuable resource for anyone interested in the evolution of photography as a creative medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a096282d575c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"130d60708c450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Another must-read is LIGHT, PAPER, PROCESS: REINVENTING PHOTOGRAPHY, which came out of an exhibition at the J. Paul Getty Museum. This book focuses on seven contemporary artists who use innovative methods to manipulate light and paper in photography. Artists like Alison Rossiter and James Welling are part of this exploration, where the materiality of photography is at the forefront. It’s a beautiful reflection on how the physical properties of the medium can be pushed to their limits, creating entirely new ways of seeing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7b4656624315","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8e56c6f364670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A third essential read is THE EDGE OF VISION: THE RISE OF ABSTRACTION IN PHOTOGRAPHY by Lyle Rexer. Published in 2009, it’s a deep dive into the rise of abstraction within photography. Rexer argues that photography has grown beyond just documenting reality; it has become a tool for abstract artistic expression. The book offers a fascinating look at how artists have blurred the lines between photography and other art forms, particularly through abstract techniques. With digital technologies reshaping how we view and create images today, this book feels especially relevant."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"634fc2509759","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"76bc1ce4b0d80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These books, along with others like Flusser’s TOWARDS A PHILOSOPHY OF PHOTOGRAPHY, provide a solid foundation for understanding the complex relationship between photography, abstraction, and the digital realm. They’re critical for anyone who wants to explore how photography has evolved from a technical medium into a space for artistic innovation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c3d721282b1a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ursel Jäger, Gottfried Jäger presents his Pinhole Structure 3.8.14 F 2.6, 1967.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-90703482844389093f331ad8e27999baa85acfa5-1618x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-90703482844389093f331ad8e27999baa85acfa5-1618x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e0909904e9f5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b1c8454bdf30","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b5aea12a45b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you get in touch with the artists you might have learnt about through books? Today, most of us know each other via Twitter, so every artist seems to be just one Direct Message away from working together."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8b98bf3f9777","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1524bcf735fe0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"8be643aa5d1a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Back in the day, we didn’t have the luxury of just shooting a DM to an artist and starting a conversation. It was a lot more... physical, I would say. My journey to connecting with artists like Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst started in a much more traditional way—through exhibitions, personal encounters, and sometimes just diving into books and articles in dusty libraries."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2c9fbc156fc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5f01813794c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I learned about these artists initially through their publications or mentions in the context of early experimental photography. The process was slow; you'd read about someone, get curious, try to find more of their work or writings, and then, if you were lucky, attend an exhibition where they might be present. And let’s not forget letters. Yes, actual handwritten postcards or typed letters—those were the DMs of my time! I remember writing to Gottfried, for example, with a postcard, starting a correspondence that led to real connections. It took patience, but maybe that’s why the relationships were so meaningful."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0b0dc6e5754d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0d420880e5b40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For example, I came across the work of Gottfried Jäger through publications on generative and concrete photography. I was fascinated by his approach, and after reading more about his theoretical contributions, I was determined to meet him in person."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d8997c2fbb80","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c87b6a0dd910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So, while Twitter has made the world smaller today, back then, it was a combination of curiosity, persistence, and a bit of luck that brought artists and gallerists together. It took time, but maybe that allowed for a different kind of depth in those relationships."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"962c072922ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b7c96508d6870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Oh, and I have to give credit where it’s due—Gottfried Jäger was the real networker behind many of these connections. He had this incredible ability to bring together a community of like-minded artists and thinkers who were exploring the intersection of art and technology. It was Jäger who really opened the doors for the young gallery, introducing us to key figures like Herbert W. Franke, Pierre Cordier, Hein Gravenhorst, Karl Martin Holzhäuser, Andreas Müller-Pohle, and Joan Fontcuberta, among others."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2f203cea7722","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c306e0bdcfff0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"His network was invaluable, giving us access to artists who were pushing boundaries in their respective fields. Jäger wasn’t just a pioneer in generative photography; he was also a connector, someone who recognized the importance of collaboration and intellectual exchange long before it became a buzzword. Thanks to him, we were able to build relationships with these artists and include their groundbreaking work in our gallery, which helped shape its direction in the early years. So, in many ways, the gallery’s success in representing generative and concrete art wouldn’t have been possible without Jäger’s incredible ability to network and connect people."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3f2d2798ff85","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d762f37f191a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A pivotal moment for the gallery was when Tomás Rodríguez Soto joined as curator in 2012. His influence expanded the gallery’s vision, incorporating a more poetic and digital approach with the introduction of new artists. Tomás brought a rich selection of Ibero-American photographers into the gallery’s program, including prominent figures like Joan Fontcuberta, Antonio Briceño, Edgar Moreno, Cristina García Rodero, and Chema Madoz. His contributions significantly enriched the gallery’s artistic direction, blending traditional photography with digital innovation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2d84e60d936","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2dbf300dfe70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A prime example of this is our collaboration with Joan Fontcuberta, whose work challenges traditional perceptions of photography and representation. His series OROGENESIS features stunning landscapes created entirely through digital rendering, inviting viewers to reconsider the relationship between nature and its photographic representation. This exhibition highlights the critical dialogue between digital techniques and conventional photography, a conversation that Tomás has fostered within our gallery."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9eb59b8da26a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"50b4c54adce30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It was Tomás who played a crucial role in integrating Chema Madoz into our gallery's program. His curated exhibition showcased Madoz’s elaborately staged photographs, emphasizing the artist's skill in creating playful constructions rather than relying on digital manipulation. This not only enriched our offerings but also highlighted the artistic value of Madoz's work, reinforcing the gallery’s commitment to showcasing innovative approaches to photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7eb034289f70","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Joan Fontcuberta, Orogenesis: Hokusai, 2004.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-cbad689816652c767d3802555882cf977e655fe5-938x704-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-cbad689816652c767d3802555882cf977e655fe5-938x704-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"43bb5d3eb93e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d20390c37b50","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ffc0ecfbd850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And now we’ll present an exhibition in collaboration with you and Tomás featuring Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst. How did you meet Hein Gravenhorst? In what ways did he contribute to the next chapter in the history of photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"55e9b041510c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"701fd6f0d83c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"ae28d97195a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Meeting Hein Gravenhorst was a memorable experience that began shortly after our first exhibition with Gottfried Jäger at our gallery. Gottfried had his first exhibition at Photo Edition Berlin in 2011, titled SEQUENCES OF SEQUENCES OF SEQUENCES. As always, he was enthusiastic and eager to help us connect with other pioneers. He provided us with Hein’s email address, and soon enough, Hein responded. Tomás, our cameraman Bernd Böhlendorf, and I arranged a visit to Hein’s studio and holistic medicine practice in Berlin-Tempelhof. It was an unforgettable encounter, one that we even captured on video."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"30052116c931","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2bf8861a31540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It took a few more years until we could bring together the entire group of pioneers of generative and concrete photography for a now-legendary exhibition: KONKRETE UND GENERATIVE FOTOGRAFIE 1960-2014 TEIL I: DIE PIONIERE in 2014. This exhibition was a milestone, showcasing the foundational figures who had shaped the field. Following this, in 2016, we were honored to present Hein Gravenhorst's first solo exhibition with us, titled HEIN GRAVENHORST. LICHTREFLEX: TRANSFORMATION – TRANSLATION – ROTATION. 1964-1968. This exhibition focused on his early analog works, created through a custom-built apparatus, and highlighted the transformation of light in his artistic process."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a35a33f1b54f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"93ca39adfe720","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For a long time, our focus remained almost exclusively on Hein’s early analog works. It was only in recent years that we began to truly appreciate the pieces he created since 1990, which were entirely digital. Our renewed interest was also sparked by curator Georg Bak’s enthusiasm for Hein’s digital art, prompting us to delve deeper into this later phase of his work. It became clear that these digital works represent a genuine continuation of the principles of generative aesthetics—only now expressed entirely through digital means. Hein’s transition from analog to digital methods beautifully illustrated the bridge between past and future, and his work has been a vital part of our gallery's story, shaping the new chapter in our ongoing collaboration with you."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4a0a671f3143","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Hein Gravenhorst, ver A-1-D-0 x, Digital image, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-15629316a478b912526e4253630725c283b69166-5906x5906-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-15629316a478b912526e4253630725c283b69166-5906x5906-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"2ea793f6e35a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d464ae46a6b9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b73db1e947d40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What do you think are the most important contributions of Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst to the history of photography and generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f9e9a775c30f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d99e43071bad0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD: "},{"_key":"6cf1b5866477","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst made groundbreaking contributions that fundamentally reshaped our understanding of photography and generative art. Gottfried Jäger is often celebrated as a theorist and practitioner who explored the concept of the Generative Image, where the photographic process becomes a means of creating new visual realities rather than merely capturing existing ones. His work challenged traditional notions of photography as a purely representational medium and introduced a more conceptual approach, emphasizing that the rules and structures of the image were as important as its content. By exploring mathematical principles and systematic processes, Jäger laid the groundwork for the integration of algorithmic thinking into photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2bb111acd2b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b1129e4dd730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hein Gravenhorst, on the other hand, brought a unique sensitivity to the use of light, structure, and transformation in his photographic work. An educated trick film artist, he created analog works using a custom-built apparatus from 1964 to 1972, which allowed him to explore the potential of photography as a generative process. What makes Hein’s work so special is his scientific approach to photography, experimenting with how light could be translated and transformed into abstract, geometric compositions. His ability to blend a rigorous, almost scientific method with a poetic sense of light and form gave his work a timeless quality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9f396ef69457","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cb18d86c403b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Both artists extended their practices into the digital realm in later years. In particular, Hein began working digitally in the 1990s, continuing the principles he had established in his analog work. It’s fascinating to see how his digital creations remain true to the foundations of generative aesthetics while exploring new possibilities in a purely digital space."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"331f315c4f30","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c2583ad8b4300","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Gottfried Jäger began his series of Mosaics in 1994. These works are a significant part of his artistic oeuvre and emerged at a time when the digital revolution significantly expanded the possibilities of photography and art in general. The term MOSAICS, as a program title, is inspired by the writings of Vilém Flusser. The series, developed around this concept, starts from two pinhole structures. One of these works will also be part of the exhibition."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e9fc6fa197a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8a0dfc1d3c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Together, Jäger and Gravenhorst not only expanded the vocabulary of photography but also helped bridge the gap between art and science. They demonstrated that photography could be more than a tool for documenting reality—it could be a medium for exploring the fundamental structures of perception, form, and logic. Their work has influenced generations of artists and continues to resonate in today’s discussions about the role of algorithms, systems, and computational processes in art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"478950a15f04","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Gottfried Jäger, Mosaic 060694 (3), 1994, Digital work after Pinhole, Structure 3.8.14 A, 1967, Inkjet print on Fuji Crystal Archive, 2016.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d212a4899269d73e2d142f8a911780d459ca15e9-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d212a4899269d73e2d142f8a911780d459ca15e9-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"97df803177df","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"80ccf224c7a4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b51f84f3248e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst shaped the history of photography. But still, back then, as you said, there wasn’t a market for generative art. Why weren’t collectors—and maybe also the audience—interested in art created with technology?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"72d56d3c03cd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0c04ae33e78e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"7489673a8961","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" That’s a great question, and it touches on some key shifts in how art and technology have been perceived over the years. Back then, there wasn’t a market for generative art because people were simply not ready to embrace technology as a legitimate artistic tool. There was a divide between “traditional” forms of art, like painting or sculpture, and anything that involved machines or algorithms. Art created with technology was often seen as too mechanical, impersonal, or even lacking the emotional depth that traditional mediums were believed to possess."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"307e0feb84e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c7e1200ded960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Collectors and audiences alike were skeptical because technology was associated with science or industry, not with human expression. Many didn’t see how something generated by a machine could have the same cultural or emotional value as a painting made by hand. This skepticism was especially true in the art world, where there’s a deep-rooted romantic notion of the artist as a solitary, emotional creator. The idea that a machine could be part of the creative process was unsettling."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1dd2554f2420","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98e14ef489b00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Another factor was the limited understanding of how these artworks were made. Without the digital literacy we have today, audiences and collectors couldn’t grasp the complexity or creativity involved in generative art. They saw computers and algorithms as tools that lacked spontaneity or individuality. The value was tied to the idea of the \"artist’s hand,\" and generative art challenged that in ways that made people uncomfortable."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0c73e4aec104","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3078d65488c60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It’s also important to remember that the art market thrives on certain narratives. The cultural value of an artwork is often linked to its rarity, its medium, and the artist's persona. Generative art didn’t fit into these pre-existing frameworks, making it harder to sell. Collectors were hesitant to invest in art that didn’t align with their traditional ideas of value, and galleries didn’t know how to market it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d6b0db81eb04","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6968b6427e910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But over time, as we’ve become more accustomed to technology in our daily lives—and as digital art has become more sophisticated—people have started to appreciate the creativity and innovation behind generative art. Now, with the rise of NFTs and a growing interest in digital art, we see a much broader acceptance. But back then, it was just too new and too unfamiliar for the art world to fully embrace."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"162387ce6244","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Hein Gravenhorst, Wellenelement Transformation 3, Silver gelatin baryth paper, 1966-1967.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8b1079ed1504dd674ca9865e7ef39066c79146a5-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8b1079ed1504dd674ca9865e7ef39066c79146a5-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"75fc81cd227f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"26e5e96fa915","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9707fbeee35a","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Today, it is difficult for artists to remain motivated when their NFTs do not sell. Time and again, one reads on Twitter that artists are on the verge of giving up when there is little movement in the market. How have you and the artists remained motivated over the decades despite sparse sales?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a614927021f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bf0b051882f3","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD: "},{"_key":"cc6b49432998","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Honestly, what kept us going? Stubbornness, caffeine, whiskey, and maybe a bit of madness! [lol] But seriously, it was the belief that we were onto something bigger than ourselves. Art has always been about pushing boundaries, challenging perceptions, and sometimes even annoying people. I think we all knew that if we didn’t keep pushing this frontier, someone else would. It wasn’t just about proving that generative art was valid or valuable; it was about exploring a new dimension of creativity that had never been fully tapped into."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5b4009ac9664","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0dbeb3848d8c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And let’s face it—there’s a deeper, almost philosophical rebellion in embracing technology, especially when much of the world views it as something cold, utilitarian, or even destructive. In these times of war, disinformation, and the constant manipulation of reality through fake news, turning to algorithms and machines is not just an aesthetic choice—it’s a radical act. Rather than using these tools to distort or obscure the truth, we use them to create, exploring the essence of form, structure, and meaning. It’s as if we’re reclaiming technology’s potential for something fundamentally human: to express, to question, and to reflect. There’s a quiet revolution in using the very systems designed for precision and control to explore ideas that transcend logic and speak to something beyond the noise of our fractured world. It’s not just about creating beauty; it’s about challenging the narrative of what technology can be and what art can do in the face of such chaos."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3e4c7494db61","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b62fe31ea3b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At the end of the day, the motivation was simple: art is a way of resisting the noise, the fake, the fear. We kept going because we believed—still believe—that creativity is one of the few honest things left in the world. And if that means working with machines and algorithms, then so be it. At least we’re in good company!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88bbe9cf3596","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6e85178497c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1741a4fb6b710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What was it like for the artists back then?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cefd3fa0ed19","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cadec8563e3a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"7f431f733a4a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Back then, the pressure wasn’t on selling out in minutes or achieving instant financial success. The artists weren’t measuring their worth by how quickly their work sold, but rather by how deeply they could push the boundaries of creativity and technology. The process was slower and more exploratory—almost like being part of a long conversation that evolved over time. These artists were less concerned with immediate validation and more focused on understanding the potential of what they were creating."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"77f493d52149","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a485454259150","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It wasn’t about giving up if things didn’t sell; in fact, the concept of \"giving up\" was almost irrelevant. They were driven by curiosity and the sheer excitement of working at the intersection of art and science. Sure, there were challenges, and recognition often came later—sometimes much later—but it was the passion for discovery that kept them going. They weren’t chasing the spotlight; they were quietly building something much bigger than themselves."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e4a2e83d45b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c0d3614143570","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In many ways, that’s the spirit we need to remember today: the idea that art isn’t just about instant gratification or sales numbers. It’s about pushing through those moments of doubt, trusting the process, and knowing that the work itself and the ideas behind it have lasting value—even if it takes time for the world to catch up."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"990c7f55df09","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Gottfried Jäger, 1965-Stanzform-7-8, 1965. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0dc7fe72edd68cac30c0ab9b9a2632845acf33ca-1485x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0dc7fe72edd68cac30c0ab9b9a2632845acf33ca-1485x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"f353b0cfcd73","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5c077af78e54","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"20ed06ba62c40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And now, exactly the opposite with NFTs of what interested artists back then. How did you first come into contact with NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b54db2cd09f9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5392792e1f40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD: "},{"_key":"b1ce9ecdd54f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My initial thought was, \"Capitalism always finds a way to reinvent itself!\" That was my honest reaction. But soon after, things became more interesting. Over the years, we had developed a strong connection with the Swiss curator and expert Georg Bak. We’ve been colleagues and gallerists in close contact for a long time. Georg eventually became the head of the NFT platform at the Swiss company elementum.art. It was through him that we received our first invitation to curate NFTs, focusing on the pioneers of generative art we represent."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f07fac883088","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e5325fe8c5b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That was our entry point into this new world of NFTs in 2022—through the trust and collaboration built over years with someone who shares our passion for both technology and art. It didn’t feel like just jumping onto a trend, but rather an extension of what we had already been exploring in the realm of digital and generative art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"72004a480b2c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6918895360400","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A significant step was the Digital Art Mile at Art Basel 2024. It’s a fresh concept that explores and promotes digital art and NFTs. Held in Basel, it brought together artists, collectors, and curators to discuss the future of digital art. What made it unique was its focus on challenging traditional notions of art and value, encouraging attendees to embrace the diversity and innovation in this space. It’s now an annual highlight and will likely expand with pop-up events in other cities, pushing the boundaries of how we create and experience art in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ab95a96e45f2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d1d2a89f526e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9934735450b20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did the artists react when you invited them to release NFTs? Did you have to convince them of the concept of NFTs? As you mentioned, these artists have not been part of the art market until now, and now the doors have opened to a world that is interested in the artwork they have created over the past decades."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b17d0a6303ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8f155266e680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"GD: Yes, we had to convince the artists to offer purely digital works. Tomás and I managed to do so by providing compelling arguments that this is part of the future—something that will stand alongside the physical pieces they have created over the decades. It’s only recently that these works have gained recognition in the international art context, largely thanks to the rising interest in NFTs and the renewed appreciation for the origins of computer art. For years, museums and other public institutions showed little interest in this field. It’s thanks to private collectors that this perception has started to shift, opening doors for digital art to be seen and valued as a vital part of art history."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5bb327c984ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56ae7ee39dd50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A prime example is "},{"_key":"73f2122d68b2","_type":"span","marks":["04b6ec24361f"],"text":"Boris Eldagsen"},{"_key":"3b233fd65ba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", the first AI artist we brought into our gallery's program—even before his piece, "},{"_key":"5c291a90d315","_type":"span","marks":["ab6d070701a2"],"text":"THE ELECTRICIAN"},{"_key":"00e3ef95d18e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", went viral and made him an internationally recognized name. Eldagsen’s approach was both innovative and provocative: he submitted AI-generated works to traditional photography competitions, like the Sony World Photography Awards, to see if juries could distinguish them from conventional photographs. His success—and subsequent refusal of the award—sparked a broader discussion about the boundaries between photography and AI-generated images, emphasizing the need for new terminology and categories, such as "},{"_key":"11e2ee4b6446","_type":"span","marks":["fdc1b5950d7d"],"text":"\"Promptography.\""},{"_key":"2f996c36e7bb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Eldagsen’s work highlights the evolving nature of art in the digital age and the importance of recognizing these new forms."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"04b6ec24361f","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/artists/boris-edagsen"},{"_key":"ab6d070701a2","_type":"link"},{"_key":"fdc1b5950d7d","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/articles/boris-eldagsen-the-photography-of-the-future-is-what-ai-leaves-behind"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0b8c5c0d827b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be8b2d3a41650","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The entire concept of NFTs ties back to the revolutionary ideas presented in Satoshi Nakamoto’s manifesto, included in the original Bitcoin publication. Written in response to the 2008 financial crisis, the manifesto emphasized the need for a decentralized digital monetary system that operates independently of central authorities like banks. With the launch of Bitcoin in 2009, a major leap in digital currency was achieved, enabling peer-to-peer transactions without intermediaries."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c0181d9a3f55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc8f7208a8450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The underlying technology, blockchain, plays a critical role by offering a secure and transparent way to record all transactions, creating an immutable chain that makes manipulation almost impossible. Decentralization minimizes the risks of fraud and data loss, as there’s no central authority holding control. This technology allows transactions to be verified in an open and transparent network, strengthening trust in the system and encouraging broader acceptance of Bitcoin and other cryptocurrencies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c1bb671bac6c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"efa435ae22b80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So, when we convinced the artists to engage with NFTs, we were also tapping into this broader paradigm shift—a decentralized and secure way of understanding and valuing art, just as Bitcoin transformed our approach to money. It’s the beginning of a revolution, much like when paper money first appeared, and yes, one day, even physical artworks might be a thing of the past as entire collections fit into a digital wallet."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"caaefe7f08c7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, Pseudomnesia: The Electrician, promptography, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-00b8f3c245aede1d1f8ce088bbffa3ed5be24334-1366x2333-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-00b8f3c245aede1d1f8ce088bbffa3ed5be24334-1366x2333-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"6ee942c014e2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b07aa6fa0eae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e14606491f30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: After all these years and witnessing art and technology change in such profound ways, what are your predictions for the future?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"153eafcbb470","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cff961ab01610","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"GD:"},{"_key":"e8159c7b5acc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" My answer is clear: the future of art will be fundamentally digital. This includes the role that AI-generated art will play in shaping our understanding of creativity. Our entire conception of what art can do, and the role it holds in society, will be turned upside down. New players will emerge—those who have little to do with traditional, academically defined art forms, yet who might take these traditions and elevate them to a new level. Art has always been there to guide us and provide a sense of direction, and that won’t change."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1501367437ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1accd83fb890","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That said, classic art forms like painting, sculpture, and photography will continue to exist. After all, there is a deep human desire to touch and physically interact with something—to feel that it has a tangible presence in the world. The physicality of traditional art gives it a unique power that remains irreplaceable. In recognition of this, we're planning to launch a platform dedicated exclusively to AI-generated art by the end of the year, called AI Edition Berlin. On this platform, we will offer AI-generated works as physical prints, and anyone who acquires a piece will automatically receive an NFT as well. While the digital aspect is certainly exciting and brings new possibilities, we recognize that the desire to own a physical artwork and enrich one's surroundings with it remains a fundamental part of our experience with art. This dual offering aims to bridge the digital and the tangible, catering to both the evolving art market and the timeless enjoyment of physical pieces."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"28a19303e238","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eedf7b5ecf8e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And let's not forget the absurd, the grotesque, the Dadaistic, and the surreal—especially the humor and improvisation that have shaped us as humans. These qualities have been central to our evolution, and they remain essential as we confront new frontiers in technology. Curiosity drives us to explore what we can learn about ourselves from machines—assuming, of course, that they can actually think (haha). And while we're at it, let’s ponder the age-old philosophical question: could an AI actually have a soul? Or is it more like that roommate who doesn’t pay rent but somehow always shows up at dinner? This playful spirit is what keeps art alive, adapting and thriving even in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3fc4e413da64","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ab035396f1f30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This year, we are celebrating the 300th birthday of Immanuel Kant in Berlin. The philosopher's legacy remains as relevant as ever, particularly in the context of contemporary discussions about knowledge, reason, and the role of technology in our lives. Kant's famous motto, \"Sapere aude\" (Dare to be wise), encourages us to use our own understanding—a call that resonates deeply in an age where AI and digital innovation are shaping our perception of the world. And of course, Kant still sits at the table in Berlin—without having to pay rent anymore. This playful nod makes the joke all the more amusing. As we honor Kant’s contributions, it’s an opportune moment to reflect on how his ideas can guide us in navigating the complexities of our modern, tech-driven era."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae5ef00ff28f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8a94b2810c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As an epilogue, I’d like to leave you with a quote from Friedrich Nietzsche: \"Or we are most in danger of being run over by a car when we have just managed to dodge one\" (lol). This quote comes from his work THE CHEERFUL SCIENCE (DIE FRÖHLICHE WISSENSCHAFT), which was first published in 1882. It’s especially relevant when thinking about the future of self-driving cars and self-thinking computers. It serves as a reminder that as we navigate the complexities of the modern world—particularly with rapid advancements in AI and automation—we must remain vigilant and adaptable, because new challenges often appear just when we think we've avoided the last one."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"87c973bda436","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b48bfb12faa60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Günther Anders spoke of \"promethean shame\" – the uncomfortable feeling of being surpassed by our own machines. It’s like racing against a Tesla while we’re stuck in an old VW Beetle! Artificial intelligence and self-driving cars show us that our technological creations are often faster, more efficient, and, very importantly, less prone to human error. Maybe we should just accept that the future is full of clever machines—and we need to figure out how to teach them to drive without handing over our secrets!?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a088564e1d80","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb3c7cc436a60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You could also reference the myth of Pegasus flying too close to the sun. It’s like we’re the winged horse trying to reach new heights, but in doing so, we risk melting our wings with our own ambition! Just like Pegasus, we need to be careful not to let our creations soar too high without guidance, lest we find ourselves plummeting back to earth when our machines outshine us."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e86c98592ddc","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1805ded3aa82","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"57ba111e6fd10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for your time and for sharing your knowledge about the history of generative photography with us!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a5cded235718","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"e6a8f90dcb1b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"8e5675fd-7dd1-4ad5-af77-3d3a685d6e8e","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"77e342492a32","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"1f1448be-7eb3-47f5-9ed8-4313b1531327","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"fbc92b3be089","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"47739667-0bdb-408b-8a1d-7c5c543ff3c4","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTISTS"},{"_key":"ad9e9fb0f7cf","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"f0557ae88c1a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-534289547530","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"d306044f21b7","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"c623b3413ed7","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"467f6465-6da7-4889-a05e-988cc8ab3484","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"2da2115972ad","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"fc75ac469bbd","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"4ce1aa2e-51dc-47a7-a30f-6771f29a94d0","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-10-08T13:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Gunther Dietrich is the founder of Photo Edition Berlin, which opened in 2008. One of the gallery's first exhibitions showcased works by Gottfried Jäger, the founder of \"Generative Photography.\" The name Photo Edition Berlin has been programmatic from the beginning: \"Photography\" means \"drawn with light,\" and \"Edition\" emphasizes photography as the reproduction medium par excellence. On the occasion of the exhibition by Gottfried Jäger and Hein Gravenhorst, presented jointly by Photo Edition Berlin and EXPANDED.ART, Anika Meier and Gunther Dietrich discuss the beginnings of Photo Edition Berlin, the history of generative photography, and how Jäger and Gravenhorst have shaped the history of photography, as well as how NFTs are changing the digital art market.","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8327cff77634db423a8bb51f1753ed7c03bb8193-1920x1595-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"photo-edition-berlin-discovering-generative-and-concrete-photography"},"store":null,"subtitle":"IN CONVERSATION WITH GUNTHER DIETRICH","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8327cff77634db423a8bb51f1753ed7c03bb8193-1920x1595-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"PHOTO EDITION BERLIN: DISCOVERING GENERATIVE AND CONCRETE PHOTOGRAPHY"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"ed9a038cf212","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-07-30T08:26:58Z","_id":"db8586e5-1c0c-48ca-b24d-f8d0dba0eb4c","_rev":"9DYmDvRwL60MBjSrcle5dv","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-08-16T22:56:00Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c27ac93dfe5c426f4da48ab4b0ef135943d04287-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"60690cfef3dd","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"b0702dbbed10","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a872d66b8a950","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MUD Gallery and EXPANDED.ART present the international group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, at the gallery in Shanghai, on the occasion of the exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024, and the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT (by Foundation Herbert W. Franke). Curated by Anika Meier, the exhibition showcases 11 artists who are working with AI today, imagining stories and exploring AI's creative potential. IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, embarks on a journey through the digital landscapes of tomorrow, crafted by the visionary minds of today's AI artists."},{"_key":"a872d66b8a951","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3a79050df96b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bec12d23d495","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the occasion of the group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, Anika Meier and Wu Yishen, the founder of MUD Gallery, discussed the past and present of generative art in China, the gallery's mission, and his thoughts on AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bece75c7d485","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"43c797864784","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6b65ea47e9eb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Yishen, MUD Gallery presents artists from China, but it also has a strong focus on the history of digital art. When did you found MUD Gallery?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f400251efa45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2a4026b80f150","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Wu Yishen: Founded in 2018, MUD Gallery is a space dedicated to the presentation and promotion of a diverse range of ancient world artifacts and contemporary art, with a particular focus on the modern transformation of classical Asian aesthetics. Shortly after its establishment, we started to prepare our "},{"_key":"e797ac1a5d67","_type":"span","marks":["5c1022124b2b"],"text":"MUDigital"},{"_key":"23e066fe9be0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" project, which I believe is the right way for the gallery to mirror the internet progression. We are increasingly aware of the importance of serious digital art for the global present and future."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"5c1022124b2b","_type":"link","href":"https://www.mudigital.art/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ca8c2404322b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c18c78a38740","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"你好，Anika，很高兴接受你的采访。泥轩空间成立于2018年，空间致力于呈现和推广各类世界古代文物与当代艺术结合的展示活动，其中尤其以亚洲古典审美的现代转化为主要方向。在成立之后不久，我们的MUDigital部门开始筹备，对于画廊整体来说，这是最完美的映照互联网时代的方式。我们越来越意识到严肃的计算机艺术对于全球当下和未来的重要性。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bd4eaa0ecffb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a43ab871be0a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f2e093d78d02","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Where is your gallery located in Shanghai?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"57376b40c81a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2124e43a1bbc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Our gallery is located in the M50 art district in Shanghai, an area that has always had a strong contemporary art scene here. We are surrounded by many galleries, and also the non-profit new media art organization, Chronus Art Center, as our neighbor."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9a6a0e48ac5b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5db1fd22b1ea0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"我们的画廊坐落于上海的艺术园区M50，这片区域一直是上海当代艺术氛围浓厚的区域，我们周围有很多艺术画廊，我们楼下还有一家非盈利新媒体艺术机构CAC，这对于我们空间来说是个不错的位置。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ae5a5d5f0df8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Wu Yishen in his office at MUD Gallery in China. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1fdd036de4d42ed598ad4f724008761220f3db76-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1fdd036de4d42ed598ad4f724008761220f3db76-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"256174c55f00","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"02220175d037","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4375b9c685c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You work with contemporary Chinese artists and with pioneers of early computer art. How do you choose the artists you work with?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8744d292d7ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"edf2296a38ff","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: In China, our family has hundreds of years of experience in art collection. Both my great-grandfather (Hufan WU) and great-great-grandfather (Dacheng WU) were important artists and collectors. Chinese classical aesthetics has always been the core of our family. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2c335ea0d21","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0757aa9a040","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the other hand, as many western scholars know, the aesthetics of Zen, accompanied by the progress of science, technology, and civilization, have always continued to evolve into new forms. Thus, in the current era, we never stop to think about and explore new possibilities. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d08586a94630","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b0d4aea5831","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Computer art, especially generative art, became one of the genres that we have been particularly interested in in the past few years. We are very fortunate that some of the early maestros of computer art have artworks related to the concept of Tai Chi, calligraphy, or Chinese landscape painting, which further enhances our determination to introduce these works to the Chinese audience. We are also trying to do more for the Chinese generative art, to provide a better environment for the local generative art community, and to bring in international exchanges."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"23455965eb45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6f1fa02d1c60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"在中国，我们家族有数百年的收藏经验，我的曾祖父和太高祖都是知名的收藏家和艺术家。中国古典美学一直是我们家族的核心关注点，另一方面，正如很多西方学者所了解的这样，东方禪的美学，始终伴随人类的科技和文明的进步不断的转化成新的形态，所以，在当下的时代，我们不断的思考和拓展更多的可能性，计算机艺术尤其是生成艺术，成了我们这几年特别关注的类型之一，特别有幸的是部分早期计算机艺术大师的作品都有和太极、书法或山水等等相关的表达，这就更加增进了我们希望为中国观众引入这些作品的想法，另一方面，我们也希望为中国生成艺术做更多事，为本土的生成艺术群体提供更好的发展环境，增进国际交流。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a992057dc9d8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4daa4fc998fb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f6796f16e7bd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Contemporary generative art is on your radar and you pay a lot of attention to what is happening in the NFT space. When did you get in touch with generative art for the first time?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"04bc2c251cf0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e64e7e87760b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: "},{"_key":"624eb4ead2b6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"During my high school years, math was my biggest hobby. I first read about fractals and generative art from Qi Dongxu's publication from the 1990s, and Hans Dehlinger was probably the first European generative artist I learned about from the book. While I was in college in the early 2000s, I came across personal websites of many excellent generative artists and also exhibitions of Casey Reas."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"53618325218a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9bffe0596f700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At that time, Flash AS was a very dominant software, and Processing was just in the beta stage but already had quite mature works. I created close to twenty works at that time and participated in the 2006 exhibition EXPANDING TURNS, which was one of the early gallery art exhibitions in China that included generative art. Coincidentally, the location of MUD today is exactly the address where I participated in the 2006 exhibition, so it is my honor to pass on this heritage."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2aaf6c5eb7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f943e88531980","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"To me, there is always something very sincere in the work of early computer artists, as before the Web1 era, all computer creators around the world were in a very pure state; academia and open source were probably the consensus at that time. Because of my personal involvement, I know indeed that this was an excellent group and era, and genuine art could make everything better. So I am dedicated to sharing early computer art with everyone. I hope that more systematic collections of early computer art can emerge in China, and I believe that this is an important foundation for this genre to take root in China's art scene."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5fa81b16531e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b52ac878965a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"在我中学时期，数学是我最大的爱好，90年代在齐东旭先生的著作中，我第一次看到了有关分型和生成艺术的内容，Hans Dehlinger可能是我第一个了解到的欧洲生成艺术家。在2000年初期，我大学期间，通过互联网我看到了许多优秀生成艺术作者的个人网站，还有类似惠特尼美术馆给Casey reas先生做的展览，当时Flash AS是非常主流的形式，Processing刚刚在测试阶段，但已经有相当成熟的作品。我当时创作了接近20件作品并参加了2006年的“扩张的转折”展览，这是中国早期收录生成艺术的画廊艺术展览之一，很巧的是，今天泥轩的位置，正是2006年我参加展览的地址，所以，我们将在原来的位置继续迎接大家的到来。早期计算机艺术家的作品中有一种特别真诚的东西，因为在Web1时代之前，全球所有计算机创作者都处于非常纯粹的状态。原创、学术和开源是当时圈内的共识，因为亲身经历，所以我很了解这是非常美妙的群体和年代，真正的艺术，可以让一切更加美好。所以我特别愿意向大家分享早期计算机艺术的部分。我希望中国可以出现更多系统性早期计算机艺术收藏，我相信这也是这个类型能在中国严肃艺术领域生根发芽的重要基础。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"520d42b8e0a2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Library at MUD Gallery with publications on the history of early computer art and generative art. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-64b85be895cdf80a9a1904f357c91fce40477721-3921x1637-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-64b85be895cdf80a9a1904f357c91fce40477721-3921x1637-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"79db030f1dbb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"44a694f527f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fc4c48b4eaf00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What was initiating your interest in generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"def3bc612b8f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a79af6a0ad4c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: My generation grew up with computers and video games. In the 2000s, computer-generated visuals meant ideals and unknowns to me. Today, they are an increasingly important part. The world created by humans and computers needs to be explored thoroughly before the age of robotics fully arrives."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e7503bc03f8f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1fd7f93cbf9d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"首先，我意识到我们这代人是伴随计算机和游戏长大的。在2000年左右，他们对我来说意味着理想和未知。对今天而言，他们是越来越重要的部分，一份由人类和计算机共同创造的庞大数据库需要被梳理，在机器人时代到来之前。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c84c12b80f83","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08d9211a1e10","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"289276fd048b","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Many digital artists working today grew up playing video games, some of them are young enough to have grown up on the Internet. What are characteristics unique to the Chinese generative art scene?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"905bce0c2aeb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"321e4e865846","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: First of all, the Chinese language is very different from European languages. We still use hieroglyphics, which create very different thought patterns. Computer language differs from all natural languages, but it is closer to English or mathematical equations. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f531a0dcbf11","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"815944c20a45","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This uniqueness presents an additional challenge for creators of generative art in China, as they must master different linguistic logics simultaneously. Moreover, the binary form is very familiar to us, reminiscent of the Zhou Yi. Thus, I place great importance on the unique content of ancient Chinese mathematics and aesthetics, especially poetry and calligraphy, which I believe resonate the most with generative art and plotter works."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"66b6ac515e01","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d2f917426fc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"首先我们国家的自然语言和欧洲非常不同，我们依然使用象形文字，语言会使人的思维方式产生非常不同的形态。计算机语言不同于所有自然语言，但他更接近英语或者数学方程式，这使得在中国的生成艺术创作者会有更加独特的地方，他们必须同时掌握更多的自然语言方式。另外，计算机的二进制形式会令我们非常亲切，这让我们想起我们古老的周易，我本人会更加关注古代中国数学和美学中的独特内容，对我来说诗歌和书法，无疑是所有类型中最让我觉得会和生成艺术和绘图仪产生共鸣的部分。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b7ad7780ec77","_type":"moduleVideo","caption":"Wu Yishen's interactive generative artwork Antenna Star. Courtesy of MUD Gallery. ","video":{"_type":"file","asset":{"_ref":"file-4510b76c309e1d58d0ed9df05205de1fef53bc75-mp4","_type":"reference"}},"videoPosition":"left"},{"_key":"41d8f369bb73","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fe94bd7a70e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"99bb6bd565100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are themes and tropes the generative art community in China explores that are distinct from generative art in other parts of the world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ae99faea3419","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95f83b41f816","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: "},{"_key":"19fc77c5dea7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"China has a unique cultural history and social status quo. But we are having a better educational environment, and more younger people are developing interest in digital art. I gave a lecture introducing the history of generative art at the Central Academy of Fine Arts last year, and the young people liked it a lot. To be honest, our perception and collection of generative art are still in the beginning stages."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2308c9c4625","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9607589039860","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"China is a very large country with a large population, so I don't want my focus to be interpreted as the themes and tropes of the community, which is by no means not sufficient to present the whole picture. So at the moment, what I am doing is introducing more artists and pioneers to China, especially those who are related to China. I think it is a way to help extend our research on the history of Chinese computer art, which will be super helpful for the development of the local community."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"67063d800919","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d130551fedf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"中国有独特的文化历史和社会现状，我们拥有越来越好的教育环境，现在越来越多的院校和年轻人对生成艺术产生兴趣，去年我在央美做了一场介绍生成艺术历史的讲座，年轻人普遍都非常喜欢。从整体来看，我们对于计算机艺术和生成艺术的了解和收藏还在刚刚开始的阶段。中国是个人口大国，所以，我不希望自己关注的部分被理解成“主题路线”，因为这绝不足以呈现整体的全貌。在当下这个时间段，我很愿意为大家引入更多早期生成艺术家，尤其是那些和中国更加相关的部分，因为在我看来，在全球计算机艺术史的背景中逐步梳理华人计算机艺术的历史，是非常切实而有效的方式，这将有利于将来的发展。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"285647f0a3d3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"02060b34aec7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1bd937110be00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How has its development differed from and also mirrored the development in other parts of the world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"efe166912e58","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a64ef3c598870","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Morphologically, the development of computer art in China will definitely be more relevant to China's history and social status. I believe with better art education for younger generations and community development, great artists will surely emerge. I expect that we can create more original content that is beneficial to the shared future of mankind."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3cc5468cdf02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"811f030671200","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"从形态上看，中国计算机艺术的发展一定会和中国的历史和社会现状更相关，在更好的教育条件下，一定会出现一些天才，我们期待中国能向世界输出更多有益于人类命运共同体的原创内容。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2fb8310f5b39","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Hans Dehlinger's solo exhibition LINE ART at MUD Gallery, 2023. Image courtesy of MUD Gallery.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6785ffc3245947f7c7d3d5dff2753acf3cb5f347-1535x1151-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6785ffc3245947f7c7d3d5dff2753acf3cb5f347-1535x1151-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"583044b7fe46","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"65ec8e9cbc56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7d2889d83ca0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Since many artworks in the digital realm stay digital, how do you evaluate high-quality prints as a form of conservation and presentation?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d7dcd9607a0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0694ccff90a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: This question holds significant importance from a collecting standpoint, particularly concerning digital art. I strongly advocate for increased collaboration among artists and collectors in addressing this issue, as it is a crucial aspect of preserving the history of computer art. Artists creating digital art should have the freedom to choose the mediums through which they present their work. Throughout history, museums and artists have showcased numerous successful examples using various mediums. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4325d7afafdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f794f9cade09","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, as times evolve, it becomes essential to establish a more reliable system, especially for preserving high-quality content. Can we provide a more equitable, fair, and enduring commitment in the long term? Affirmations for digital art are essential, and it is imperative that creators and collectors honor their commitments. We need increased transparency and involvement from galleries and institutions. Prints can sometimes be misleading, particularly in the art market, yet they remain a crucial form of computer art creation. In general, I prioritize respecting the creator's intentions and am open to accepting various forms of computer art when the artist provides their signature and authorization."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b793b27e4f08","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ef6f663380ac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"从收藏角度来说，这是个很重要的问题，尤其对于电子艺术来说，我很希望更多艺术家创作者和收藏家可以共同参与到这部分内容中来，这也是分享计算机艺术史的重要部分。不同的电子艺术创作者有权选择不同的呈现方式，在各个历史阶段，美术馆和艺术家已经提出了不少优秀的成功方案。伴随时代的发展，我们如何构建一套更加可靠的制度，尤其是真正接近“艺术品”的那些高质量内容，从更长远的角度来看，我们是否可以给出更加合理公平的有效承诺？对于数字艺术，我们认为有些申明是必须的，希望创作者和收藏家都可以信守承诺，我们比以往更需要公正，更多画廊和机构应该参与其中。印刷品是很容易让人困惑的问题，尤其对于画廊这个行业来说，但这确实是计算机艺术创作中很重要的一种形态，在一般情况下，我倾向于尊重创作者的意愿，在艺术家本人签署授权的情况下，我可以接受各种计算机艺术的形态。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d3793f4d1e83","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9b4992805afa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"753065cad7a50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And what is an original in the digital realm? What should the artist aim at?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"091ce9e4d6af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06cd9e902d1a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Output with \"new\" thinking. Of course, it will be difficult to judge. \"New\" is related to the original intention and, at the same time, related to history; thus, it requires more information and time to validate. At the same time, I’m concerned that as time goes by, many comparisons and opinions may become more and more blurred. That is also why I think it is important to promote early generative art nowadays, where the significance of early computer artworks should be highlighted, compared to the ambiguous content in terms of originality. For creators who want to become serious artists, originality should be one of the necessary pursuits and goals."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e6a8f72920cb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f3cc135a3ab0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"带有“新”思考的输出，当然，这一点会比较难判断，“新”和创作初衷有关，同时和历史有关，检验需要更多信息和时间。而且我们更担心，伴随时间的推移，许多对比和观点都可能会变得越来越模糊。在我看来，这也是我们今天重视早期生成艺术的意义，相比更多在原创方面比较模糊的内容，早期计算机艺术代表作品显著的历史意义应该得以凸显。对于希望成为严肃计算机艺术家的创作者来说，原创应该是必要的追求和目标之一"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f16e9952f584","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e64902247bea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"093c17cd726c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: "},{"_key":"f551cab6a142","_type":"span","marks":["strong","04aedc8935e7"],"text":"IMAGINE TODAY, 2024"},{"_key":"5dabfd8caf67","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" is the second exhibition organized by MUD Gallery and EXPANDED.ART in Shanghai. Fellowship presents Niceaunties with her latest piece titled GOING HOME. This marks your first AI exhibition. What sparked your interest in AI? "}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"04aedc8935e7","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/exhibitions/imagine-today-2024"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1838f6df6cae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95c91dd140ca","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: In recent years, AI has undoubtedly been one of the hottest topics in the tech world. After Eugene Goostman's robot passed the Turing Test for the first time in 2014, various AI-related topics became more prevalent. The AlphaGo vs. Lee Sedol match in Asia in 2016 had a significant impact. By around 2018, GANs (Generative Adversarial Networks) rapidly gained prominence in the development of generative art, attracting many important generative artists to the field. Some new creators among them established this as their trademark. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b20793192ccf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a29ecb021652","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The significant proliferation of AI tools in recent years has ushered in a new era of creative possibilities. In the tech world, new technologies have always been an unavoidable focus, and they are likely to grow in importance. Globally, there is a need for the entire history of computer art to be better integrated into a system that the public can understand and appreciate, with the hope that more exceptional works will find their way into museums and galleries. For the general public, attaining a deeper understanding may take time, but every journey must begin somewhere, and now is the best time to start. We aim to provide better opportunities for Chinese enthusiasts and artists to showcase and appreciate their work, with the hope that the world will pay greater attention to these outstanding Chinese digital artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1c97bfeefe9d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a031d0729aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"最近几年，AI无疑是整个科技界最热门的话题之一，在2014年尤金·古斯特曼（Eugene Goostman）机器人第一次通过了“图灵测试”之后，人们陆续可以看到各种和AI相关的话题，在亚洲2016年AlphaGo和李世石的对决影响很大，差不多在2018年前后，GAN（生成对抗网络）创作迅速占据了生成艺术发展中的大片区域，很多非常重要的生成艺术家都参与到这类创作中来，也有一些新的创作者，一开始就以此为标志。当然，最近两年AI工具大规模爆发，又使得整个创作可能性发生了新的的转变，在科技领域新技术一直就是不可忽视的类型，我相信他们一定会变得越来越重要。对全球观众来说，整个计算机艺术的历史都需要有更好的方式连接成系统让大众去了解和接受，希望能有更多优秀的作品可以进入博物馆和美术馆。对更多人来说，深入的了解可能还需要时间，但凡事总需要一个开始，而最佳的时机往往就是现在。我们为中国的爱好者和艺术家提供更好的展示和欣赏条件，也希望世界可以更多的关注一些优秀的中国电子艺术家。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"108ae419aa0e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Mario Klingemann, Infinite Descent, still from the AI video, 2017. Courtesy the artist. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1a1ddc8cd7f7163150c6095bb08b8e653ee238c1-1022x984-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1a1ddc8cd7f7163150c6095bb08b8e653ee238c1-1022x984-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"e6ca3cd1c771","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3236577bd35f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b692ec3df11e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Speaking of generative art and art created with AI: What is good AI art, and what is good generative art to you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"edb047ae83d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"65c5edbb4d66","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: Personally, regardless of the genre I am exploring, I tend to gravitate towards works from relatively early periods. I long for the earlier years of the 2000s when there existed a pure and uncommercialized atmosphere of creativity worldwide, akin to the realm of painting and other traditional art forms, which further fuels my passion for creation. This sentiment seems to be a common thread across various art disciplines' early stages. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a98b43ca618d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"588ca7ed5db2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The generative arts before the 1980s may not have possessed the technical sophistication of later iterations, but they exuded a unique flavor absent in subsequent generations. This type of appreciation resonates closely with ancient Chinese literati painting and has seamlessly integrated into my life. Simultaneously, I hold great admiration for creators who have attained exceptional levels of perfection. There truly exist artists who wield various tools with such mastery, and I believe that such works deserve to reach a broader audience's eyes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a30f836d935d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bdc2ebe5f7dc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"我个人的话，无论哪种类型，首先会更多的关注创作时期相对更早的作品，我非常怀念2000年初期的美好岁月，当时全世界各地的创作都有一种非常纯净无功利的气质，就如绘画和别的传统艺术门类一样，这会让我更加喜爱创作这件事，在所有艺术门类中，相对早期的部分似乎都有这种共性，80年代之前的生成艺术并没有之后那么复杂的技术，但是他们的韵味也是之后的类型所完全没有的。这种欣赏理念和古代中国文人画的趣味有非常接近的部分，这完全融入了我的生活。不过同时我也非常欣赏完成度非常高的创作者们，竟然真的有人可以把各种工具运用到如此程度，我认为这类作品的典型也很需要让更多观众看到。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d5fb2bff6edc","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fd56693d45eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73caa00195be0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you first hear about AI and what were your thoughts at that time?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1508744b1fdd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e548306be9b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: If this refers to the output of AI tools that have emerged recently, I found it very intriguing at that time. However, there are many outputs that I may find challenging to accept, and some of them are even difficult to embrace, possibly due to my personal biases."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2043e7b59c3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f497a89db5f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"如果是指最近出现的AI工具输出的话，我当时觉得很有趣，不过有很多输出，对我来说可能并不是十分容易接受，有些甚至很难接受，这或许是我还是带有个人的偏见。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a336bce8264","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ec6a3218eaee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d8c37c4a9b9e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Have you changed your mind?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"de8b3313a633","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"39d4114b42820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: It hasn't changed much compared to before. However, I have come across some talented creators, such as Niceaunties, in this exhibition. Skilled creators can uphold high standards with great precision. Therefore, it still requires the artist's touch. I believe that the fusion of ideas and preferences will become particularly crucial when creating art in this field."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cd70e6b0f8b4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a7f70186fe10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"和之前相比并没有太大变化，但我已经看到了一些优秀的创作者，比如这次展览的中的Niceaunties，优秀的作者可以将水准控制到很高的位置，所以，现在还是需要艺术家来完成，我认为在这个领域做艺术的话，思维和品味的结合将会变得尤为重要。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a7d6373fff31","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Going Home, still from an AI video, 2024. Courtesy Fellowship and the artist.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7bb4467c880e05f8298ab096f82aa58cf46e0bea-1670x1662-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7bb4467c880e05f8298ab096f82aa58cf46e0bea-1670x1662-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"4f4ed47cb04c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"316e717477a4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"886f3aee28da0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As mentioned, this is your first AI exhibition at MUD Gallery. What has been the feedback from collectors so far, and is AI art a significant topic in China? Would you like to introduce AI art and AI artists to the Chinese audience?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9bab1fd7097e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0965ab85d2d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: AI creation is still a new concept for Chinese collectors, but AI is rapidly advancing in China. Last year, I had the honor of delivering a lecture on generative art at the Central Academy of Fine Arts (CAFA), where I witnessed a significant number of students incorporating AI tools into their daily creative processes. I aspire for more young individuals to take notice of this exhibition, as I aim to connect with and understand them through this showcase."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"976911ea7b0d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c75475c508b50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"创作对于中国藏家来说，还是一个新鲜事物，但AI在中国发展的速度非常迅速，去年我有幸在央美（CAFA）做了一场有关生成艺术的讲座，我看到大量学校中的学生，现在每天都在使用AI工具来做各种创作，所以我希望能有更多年轻人关注这场展览，希望能够了解他们对这场展览的看法。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0afcff9285f4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"af9bdfc2067f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad2b1ac30a170","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are your predictions for the future of artists working with AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d13fdb25ec0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ced942e1cb7e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"YW: AI is still in a nascent stage at the moment, so it's perfectly fine to delve into it if you're adept at navigating these types of new tools. Regarding the question itself, if people still seek a better answer, I believe we can all attempt to ask AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8004b88f9270","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a07e46f1d58a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"我相信现在AI还在一个初级阶段，所以，如果你非常善于驾驭这类新的工具，完全可以尽情投入。至于这个问题本身，如果大家还想得到更好的答案，我想我们不如都去尝试问问AI。"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3ff24653d81c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Blue Flow Mutator (also known as Blue Worms Flower), still from Mutator AI Physics Software, Unique Custom Software developed by William Latham and Stephen Todd, 2024. Courtesy the artist.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1df6c6ade0ec2bf32b9a98cf5d14559b0cb2e31c-1080x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1df6c6ade0ec2bf32b9a98cf5d14559b0cb2e31c-1080x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"f2ab59d68b4a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d540e71ec053","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d6dea4d575ed","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I asked ChatGPT. Here is the answer. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c25e048b598a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"31998da48499","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ChatGPT: Predicting the future is always challenging, but based on current trends, it is likely that artists working with AI will continue to push the boundaries of creativity and innovation. Here are some potential predictions for the future of artists working with AI:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"61c7e9eae4d7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9b8d93a02cfd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Increased Adoption"},{"_key":"9b8d93a02cfd1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": More artists will likely incorporate AI tools and techniques into their creative processes as these tools become more accessible and user-friendly."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9cd865dd305c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f12db058d3a40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Diverse Art Forms"},{"_key":"f12db058d3a41","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": Artists will explore new and diverse art forms enabled by AI, leading to the emergence of novel styles and genres that blend human creativity with machine intelligence."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e3ef99786bce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64660ecc53bd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Collaboration between Humans and AI"},{"_key":"64660ecc53bd1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": Collaboration between artists and AI systems will become more common, with artists using AI as a tool to enhance their creative output rather than replace human creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7ab772496223","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"15cb9a106c080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Ethical and Legal Challenges"},{"_key":"15cb9a106c081","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": As AI-generated art becomes more prevalent, ethical and legal questions surrounding ownership, authorship, and copyright of AI-generated artworks will need to be addressed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"18ee3a63a9cf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"75f6f6db0a0a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Artificial Creativity"},{"_key":"75f6f6db0a0a1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": There may be debates and discussions about whether AI systems can truly be creative or if they are simply mimicking human creativity. This could lead to philosophical discussions about the nature of art and creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1d46cbee0ca2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b872d964efa50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"New Art Markets"},{"_key":"b872d964efa51","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": The rise of AI art could lead to the creation of new art markets and platforms specifically dedicated to AI-generated artworks, attracting collectors and enthusiasts interested in this emerging form of art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"50d681b73aab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"023ebb17f7060","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Impact on Society"},{"_key":"023ebb17f7061","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":": AI art may have a broader impact on society, influencing cultural norms, challenging traditional notions of art, and sparking conversations about the intersection of technology and creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1ba3d5d408b7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e7246f0cb437","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d97469b2e7e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for taking the time for this conversation. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1f11f48c1cd7","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"6af20bc9a6e0","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-528435446026","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"430cdb56006e","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"b250ebcc75ab","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"679b0ee8-e7de-4a0d-9944-45c664ec22b2","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"86d0c61754f1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"11ba725e-1498-4e1a-abdd-947899246c1b","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"faad7dd2679a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"8b82fca7-ce1c-41e3-8172-e176ceac5822","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"2c35698144cc","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"0613e5bb-2784-43e5-9f18-62c1723b023c","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b0f3705f009c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a2a825dd-92a8-483f-8f12-89cd760d158d","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"7249574edc6d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"4d2f6f13-00ff-455e-abc3-5a062369e266","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"da60c94eae95","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"f5806f58-c37e-4439-9eaf-d119049ab244","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"309e787a36bb","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"7d05e1bd-a3b7-446a-97a0-6b668f3d8a16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"9ee0a1f3199f","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"2afad783ee23","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e640ffbe-945a-4cd5-bdd3-b9f40df63c89","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"691ad5ac84c1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-07-29T14:30:00.000Z","seoDescription":"MUD Gallery and EXPANDED.ART present the international group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, at the gallery in Shanghai, on the occasion of the exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024, and the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT (by Foundation Herbert W. Franke). Curated by Anika Meier, the exhibition showcases 11 artists who are working with AI today, imagining stories and exploring AI's creative potential. IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, embarks on a journey through the digital landscapes of tomorrow, crafted by the visionary minds of today's AI artists.\n\nOn the occasion of the group exhibition IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, Anika Meier and Wu Yishen, the founder of MUD Gallery, discussed the past and present of generative art in China, the gallery's mission, and his thoughts on AI.","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c27ac93dfe5c426f4da48ab4b0ef135943d04287-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"mud-gallery-generative-art-in-china"},"store":null,"subtitle":"IN CONVERSATION WITH WU YISHEN","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c27ac93dfe5c426f4da48ab4b0ef135943d04287-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"MUD GALLERY: GENERATIVE ART IN CHINA"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"adde551f63a8","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-06-04T16:28:46Z","_id":"679b0ee8-e7de-4a0d-9944-45c664ec22b2","_rev":"3iaqww2vxcB9HrQm3GfZLC","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-06-15T19:23:25Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"b23986964aa3","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"150b5e6fac5f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f329dfbc4d3f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Alejandro Cartagena is a renowned photographer known for his captivating series CARPOOLERS and his pioneering role as the co-founder of Fellowship, a platform that champions historical and contemporary artists at the forefront of photography, generative art, AI, and video. With a unique blend of expertise in photography and AI, Alejandro Cartagena has carved a distinctive path in the NFT space through his dedication and innovative approach. By seamlessly merging traditional photography with cutting-edge technologies, Cartagena's work with Fellowship showcases the transformative power of AI in the realm of art, pushing boundaries and opening up new creative possibilities. Fellowship's exploration of the intersection between artificial intelligence and art offers a glimpse into the future of artistic expression in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"04dd33d31218","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b5c1b86a37b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In a captivating dialogue with Anika Meier, Alejandro Cartagena delves into the history of photography and the term post-photography. Their conversation extends to the dynamic interplay between art and technology, exploring the innovative realms of CARPOOLERS and Fellowship. As the discussion unfolds, they also venture into the boundless possibilities that lie ahead at the intersection of art and AI, painting a vivid picture of the future landscape of artistic expression in the digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3a61f6407bcc","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89be61f1f17a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"778f7575ac410","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Alejandro, when did you first pick up a camera?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"746be7ab53cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80bfcb30af2d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Alejandro Cartagena: "},{"_key":"604ba68cd257","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My first time picking up a camera was back in the Dominican Republic. I was in a bird-watching club, and we took pictures and developed the film at school."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8cfaf0906634","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b53169ae49760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The first time I used the camera as a tool to create art was in 2004. I had quit my job in the service industry and delved deep into the rabbit hole of contemporary photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"09f35dd56263","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Dalos Dov, For Friends #5 – Alejandro, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1c17fc1a7be0c06e695887401a7ba1abc93e6bcb-1200x554-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1c17fc1a7be0c06e695887401a7ba1abc93e6bcb-1200x554-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"70418ff01e74","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"86c9430113f0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1492e65d511e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you remember when you learned about photography as an artistic medium?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"92cb3c1d3c41","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ca3b45f812a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: It was in 2004, after a workshop called ANALYZING IMAGES, that I learned about photography as an artistic medium. For the first time, I was told that I could make photographs (stage them and/or make all sorts of formal decisions) and create a story or develop an idea with them. I had always associated the idea of nostalgia with photography—something you use to remember the past. This new way of thinking about photographic images shook me completely. I left everything to pursue it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f81435f36d0c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b4dd726852d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4076a220067b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The philosopher Roland Barthes was pleased that a moment from the past was present when he held a photo in his hands or leafed through a book. Today, the message on the bright screen is simply: \"It is just so.\" (Wolfgang Ullrich) \n\nThrough social media and messenger apps, photography has transformed from a medium of documentation and memory into a medium of communication. What the philosopher Roland Barthes calls \"punctum,\" the captivating and irritating moment of a photograph, is usually sought in vain. How do you perceive this change in the medium of photography as a photographer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"de8003e7e9a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"baf725dc3c6c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: "},{"_key":"06988844729a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photography changed everything. It silently inscribes itself into everything we see and do. This slow indoctrination into seeing the world photographically is what you call a transformation into a language, because in reality, photography is a \"wild\" medium like all other art forms, with its meaning being fixed by the context rather than from the image itself."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4fe740ab9356","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be75d612f3bf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"What Roland Barthes proposed, I would argue, is that photography has an intrinsic mechanism to seduce viewers via nostalgia. Nostalgia is a sentimental longing or wistful affection for the past, typically for a period or place with happy personal associations. That image he saw that formed his entire theory means absolutely nothing to the next viewer, and so what he described as \"punctum\" was a personal connection via nostalgia to an image."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"41e0aeee5fcc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ffaf0412bb850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photography is a flawed language, but when placed on social media, it functions as a trigger for the ideas and meanings that these sharing systems have built around them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e3e6121cf532","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Alex Webb, Nogales, Mexico, 1995.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abda8fc88eb1aadb963f8fcc9c23e535014be119-1536x1023-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-abda8fc88eb1aadb963f8fcc9c23e535014be119-1536x1023-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"62269955c364","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bfa28edccd44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8cab5ead3b20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who are the photographers you look up to?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"685888115aa7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"270aa4874a990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I think of the history of photography as what most inspires me. The flaws it has (many white, western men created it, and the lack of other voices) and the stories that are missing. I see it as a place to find loopholes in what else can be addressed via this medium. What has not been looked at, or what other ways can we think of one or another subject matter? I like to think of the different moments the medium has undergone where it has questioned its intrinsic values. The photographers that experiment with those ideas are very inspiring."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a93d96ed8286","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c7b009c4a4c1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"553131d232f70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Photography has radically changed over the past decade due to social media, smartphones, and now AI. The term post-photography is very present in relation to AI. How do you define post-photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"96ec69cd8baa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"29598816c4280","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: For me, the shift in photography began in the 1980s with the Pictures Generation. Artists viewed and utilized photography not merely as a chronicle of time, but as a visual tool that had generated an abundance of visual material, rendering the creation of new images unnecessary. Photographs could be appropriated and recontextualized, and through these simple acts, the meanings of the images were altered. This is the point at which I would identify a potential moment of contemplation regarding the rise of post-photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"08385e34cb6d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"87835436f15e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The photographic image began to show massive cracks in its supposed duty of recording reality. The advent of digital photography exposed the vulnerability of a photograph to adhere to its prescribed function: a record of real life. Suddenly, every photographic image was plagued with doubt. The era of \"is that photoshopped\" began, and photography shifted. These two moments prompted contemplation of the next stage for photography now that it was constantly being challenged and consequently relieved of its duty as a document. The signs had been present since the invention of the medium that this image machine could simply be a tool of subjective artistic representation, but it took almost 150 years for artists to dismantle the role that society and art had assigned to the medium. With the advent of AI, photography will possibly undergo a moment of crisis regarding its relevance as a medium in artistic use. I believe that this crisis is a valuable one to experience."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1c9ef703d410","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Joel Meyerowitz, Sequels #6, New York City, USA, 1966.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0718f18459b551ca2ef7dfff9b59677e5b1d0b16-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0718f18459b551ca2ef7dfff9b59677e5b1d0b16-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"e4bdd7d6437a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8b5a0350375b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4edcd0a16b30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look at images created with AI these days, is the history of photography still a point of reference for artists?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"60784aa48c6c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eeb986ddf8670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"50dbd67a7d5e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5fe754b4c9790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"790979bdd446","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"41796b052aa50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: For some artists, I assume that the history of photography is still a point of reference. AI images are becoming more diverse in how they are created. One excellent example of a cross-pollination of mediums is the "},{"_key":"10717e471125","_type":"span","marks":["21f7bfec0716"],"text":"BLIND CAMERA project by Diego Trujillo"},{"_key":"21d847fca505","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"21f7bfec0716","_type":"link","href":"https://opensea.io/collection/post-photographic-perspectives-taming-the-machine"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"94c8d36eca24","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"382bcbcd5dbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Diego created his own AI model, trained on videos of Mexico City, and then developed a sound camera that would interpret sounds and convert these auditory moments into images based on the model trained on the city's videos."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2692464a4cbc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ddacd0574fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The act of creating AI images on the streets creates a very intriguing situation for this emerging medium. Field AI creation is evolving the concept of street photography to capture a slice of life. Is what Diego did then the same thing? Even though it involves AI, the city influences what the AI model creates. I appreciate the challenges that this project introduces to the conversation. What exactly has he invented?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"14593a94d0fc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Diego Trujillo, Blind Camera #14, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9625d779fa1b545d35e628a14752c41718c02bf2-3000x1714-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9625d779fa1b545d35e628a14752c41718c02bf2-3000x1714-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"b950c8eeb68b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cdec4d64c14d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8807864ca9820","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What do you recommend to artists and collectors who would like to start learning about the history of photography? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d7d2bbbeeca8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f0a1b8921a840","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: The book THE PHOTOGRAPH AS CONTEMPORARY ART by Charlotte Cotton is a fantastic guide to understanding how photography functions as an artistic medium. It breaks down the ways in which different generations of artists have utilized the medium. This would be the perfect place to develop a love for this medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88de03508f6a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d84095308abb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f740ce9ecfc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are an expert in photography and its history, and you’re internationally known as a photographer for your series CARPOOLERS. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3086eb8046b7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"61470d30c3750","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: CARPOOLERS is part of a larger body of work about homeownership in Mexico. For thirteen years, I worked on projects that explored how this cultural phenomenon had been imported into our Mexican culture and how that tropicalization created a series of unintended consequences. Issues with transportation and ecological degradation were two of the things that immediately showed up in many of the major cities in the country. The rapid development of these new housing complexes being promoted by the federal and local governments came at high costs for their new buyers. With very little planning, many of these new homeowners found themselves stuck with high transportation costs and had to inevitably rely on illegal transportation from and to the newly built suburbs they now lived in. My images show them in a strange private and public moment on the way to work. These scenes became more common because of the developments that were happening."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d23b5c401a33","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Alejandro Cartagena, Carpooler #10, 2011.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-475ca5eadd970ea3f5fb937bd636b52876afa1c9-1230x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-475ca5eadd970ea3f5fb937bd636b52876afa1c9-1230x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9492b48a4d1c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aa64e4d5dfd8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"478baad2da110","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is more important: creating an iconic image or a body of work that stands the test of time? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f1c4ae47385d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07ddc3435afc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I am obsessed with the history of photography, and so I am constantly looking for “loopholes” in what has already been photographed. Thinking of CARPOOLERS, what you see is a project that not only makes sense to create based on the points I made above, but that also speaks to the many projects that came before about labor, car culture, and urban development. These images reference these subject matters but introduce a conversation with those other projects. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3289dc7ef95","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"76e5cd8d6522","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You see urban development in CARPOOLERS, but not by taking pictures of the city, but by visualizing one of its consequences. We see ideas of labor, but instead of creating the now cliché representation of hard work, these in-between moments of the workers have the strength to still make us think of the intensity of their jobs without having to represent that literally. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"deef8ee03c70","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c731ebd259f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Finally, you see a reference to the preference for individual transportation systems like the car and the car culture that has been exported from our northern neighbor, the USA, into our country. Instead of favoring public transportation, private cars are championed as a sign of social well-being and as a status symbol. This process of connecting with other projects is something I think of a lot. Will it always make for good projects? Maybe not, but it helps me have a little bit of structure."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6badfc1e4759","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7b4fd151ac87","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7aa1b5d98c8c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When it comes to the history of photography where do you see AI?\n\n\"It’s bullshit, because AI is not photography. Generated images are hallucinations. How can you mix that up? Of course, there is no absolute truth. But using AI is destroying it completely. The mistake that many people make is that they see AI-generated images as a logical evolution from photography.\" This is a quote from Boris Eldagsen, taken from a recent interview with the Art Newspaper. German artist Eldagsen's artwork, PSEUDOMNESIA: THE ELECTRICIAN, won the creative open category at the Sony World Photography Award in 2023. He refused the prize because he used an artificial intelligence image generator to create his submission."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fb84617f48b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e246aaa2dff0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: There is so much to unpack there. I’d say that I do see AI as a sister tool to photography. Midjourney, stable diffusion, etc. are not the only ways artists are creating AI images. Some use their own photographs, their own videos, and their own sounds to create new AI work. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae87d7e7d066","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86083a491c23","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"If you train a model only based on your photographs, is it not related to your photographic practice? When thinking of collage, do the photographs used in it stop being photographs because we call them collage? Photography is not only a medium but also a way of seeing the world. 200 years of being in the photographic era have made us see the world in a photographic way. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"606ac6b3ef9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1dfe6164d99","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"You can also create photographic hallucinations with AI. They are not photographs, but they work like photographs. Does that not make them photographic?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"49fea3579bdc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, Pseudomnesia: The Electrician, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1b431a1d8e4c9a1de3bfca5f9031ee857309fe06-703x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1b431a1d8e4c9a1de3bfca5f9031ee857309fe06-703x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"0b867f462dea","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"41bb0efcc63b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"adf95f1082140","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Let's ask Boris Eldagsen these questions on Twitter when we publish this conversation. He will be part of our upcoming exhibition titled THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024, that we will present in Berlin on the occasion of the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT by the Foundation Herbert W. Franke. \n\nHow did you get from creating art yourself to co-founding Fellowship?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5661b3b16f2e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"35136427e4060","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I’ve always had a drive to support creators. I had a photography school for almost 10 years; I taught at the university; and I have a publishing house called Los Sumergidos to publish Latino artists. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1e412c648bc0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3980469f0f0f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I started my artistic career, I was given spiritual and conceptual support. I learned that art is also about giving and supporting each other. Fellowship is an extension of that belief. I had always wanted to build a gallery or a place to support artists and their careers, but it always seemed impossible. I did a ton of mentoring for years, but I still felt I could do more. Fellowship has granted me the opportunity to do all the things I wanted to do for other artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8732b157f949","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e21ad27c63bb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be9cdb9a778e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were your goals in the beginning with Fellowship? Have your goals changed over the years when interest from collectors changed from photography to AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"16e028b1fc0d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2dcabcfa851a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Fellowship started as a photography NFT collection. Studio137 and I had been talking about the opportunity to build a once-in-a-lifetime collection that would survey the projects that had shaped the medium. We focused on 20th and 21st century photography and built what we think is one of the most comprehensive and curated NFT collections of photography. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d7096a9740a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5048a2de379","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Our focus expanded when the artists we were collecting asked if we’d help find more collectors for their works. It was an organic path to start offering the work via a platform, though it has always been strange to call us that because we offer curatorial services, mentorship, tech support, and career-building opportunities. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2c4e0d1a4a39","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d0d8d5324c34","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We came to this because we were passionate about supporting artists and the excitement of collecting works of art, but now we help artists build projects and help them find the best ways to offer them to collectors. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af554b975595","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb6481422d8a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Mixed into all that, the whole Fellowship team is obsessive and excited about doing new things that push our understanding of art. We work with artists that touch our hearts and minds. It is a bit romantic, but we are all here because we love art and love to build cool stuff."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d09ba350e6f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Laurie Simmons, In and around the House II #25, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e6b6f312303e83b05b3069ee255f9323c2a093cc-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e6b6f312303e83b05b3069ee255f9323c2a093cc-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"aa5b8fd56e23","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6ccaf1a08266","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dfd759b2425f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When it comes to photography and NFTs, to be honest, I have been critical from the very beginning in regards to well-known photographers releasing their work again as NFTs. These works have already been sold in the form of prints, very likely in editions and in various sizes. What are your thoughts?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"54424e787e46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ba2433c80e570","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I see no issue. NFTs are a new distribution method for photography. Let’s take it a bit further. Photography was one of the first mediums ever to be digitized. Photography was one of the first mediums on the internet. It’s digital heritage has been there for a long time. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6e41f6425637","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"718ac79c8cb2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The NFT technology was not there for that digitization of the medium, and so no one had considered offering digital editions for the medium. I think there is an issue with asking photographers not to print books after they have sold their work as prints. Photography’s nature permits it to have different outputs. If the artists say that the NFT is a digital original of their work, who can say that that is wrong? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f24370627742","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8278c3dd226e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Let’s go further. If they want to sell them as key chains, as t-shirts, or as disposable vinyl prints, who has the authority to say any of these outputs are wrong and should not be done? The artist has the ultimate say as to how they sell their art and what to call their art. And if there are collectors interested in those digital objects or weird physical gadgets, well, that's great. No one is holding a gun up to their heads to buy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"20f64cd4e8cf","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"34f119099244","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06be744984f00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did well-known photographers respond when you reached out to them about releasing AI with Fellowship?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"25c51dc8e18c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7f25868ba5590","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Some of them have also been exploring AI, to our surprise. But most of the conversations are about how these tools create images. There is a natural curiosity in the photographers I talk to. I haven’t had any pushback because we are here as curious participants, trying to understand what this is. When you come at it this way, the conversations tend to be uplifting but also challenging."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"baa77d4e52a3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Charlie Engman, Funhouse Mirror #025, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-73c56e9971c0d57596e6f2e9d838243ec8601267-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-73c56e9971c0d57596e6f2e9d838243ec8601267-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"913ac7e65237","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d09bea278a7b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"452d758dc81e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there a difference between a good photograph and good AI art?\n\nKenny Schachter, the art critic and artist, spoke about art and technology when I met him with my students from the University of Applied Arts in Vienna at your pop-up gallery that was part of the first edition of the Digital Art Mile. He said"},{"_key":"149e1943ad97","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":","},{"_key":"6aeaf15e4f0e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" \"Good art has to last.\" And, \"Good art is in no way subjective.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b24ab3754565","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0c1ebd1c70250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: No, either they work or they don’t. I’d also not say good or bad; maybe it's best to call it relevant or not relevant. Relevant because: do we want to spend time on that image when there is a flood of images out there to consider? I don’t look at art to see if it is good or bad. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c55d90d42d7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d13e292c4b92","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photography has a known grammar and lineage that can help discern if the image is relevant or not. As for relevant AI art, the grammar and traits of what make a piece important to consider are in development. So you can’t judge AI and photography the same way. They are different mediums with only similar aesthetics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"312b220d8486","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3e0b30f4902b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4975e59526dd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I think the question if art is good or bad is valid. And the main criteria is relevance in regards to the past, present, and future of the medium. There is a history and this history will always have a next chapter. What will this next chapter be about? Writing this chapter is the job of the artists of their time. \n\nNot only AI art but the NFT space itself changes at rapid speed. The interest shifted from photography and generative art to AI. Why did people lose interest in photography NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"055c8d086d95","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08c7b7a664b90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: There are many answers to that! Photography never had its moment in NFTs. It is one of the most digital and technologically native artistic tools, so for us, it is still perfectly suited for NFTs. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3b296c4a1049","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4805ceed7315","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When photography was pushing for a spot in NFTs, the big conversation was around generative art. AI had been lurking too. But all three mediums needed more time to mature. But in this heavily financialized space, it was not easy to talk about art. The conversation around provenance, chain, and collector-controlled outputs seemed to hover over everything, and that is not something that allows for art to flourish. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d7f5ff13079b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"14e455ce25ad","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So now we are at the crossroads of a dwindling demand for generative art and photography, and we could also argue for AI, not because of the art but because people got tired and expectations got chattered. That’s why building a project based more on the art, even when it is difficult to build a market, is very much needed for longevity and self-sustainability. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e58bd5bb036c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"099be7aa579b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I do understand the importance of the 2021 push in NFTs. We couldn’t have advanced in certain things if it weren’t for all the things that happened then. But it is a different moment with new opportunities; even for photography, it is just going to take more time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4f54f475726b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Roope Rainisto, Auto Dream No. 3 from Reworld, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4728ccfc8b082ed74335e785623daed09a77acbc-1536x1152-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4728ccfc8b082ed74335e785623daed09a77acbc-1536x1152-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"288b3a01a144","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5beb535c438b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38254ebcc6e20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Fellowship keeps pushing the boundaries. In the autumn of 2023, you launched "},{"_key":"8b99ef6064b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong","ce29efcde615"],"text":"Daily"},{"_key":"3c1af9d9155c","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":". Why did you set up a new platform for AI?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"ce29efcde615","_type":"link","href":"https://daily.xyz/"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"49c9e1094dbb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8f98e52bed70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: In the summer of 2023, we came across several artists that we felt were doing some amazing AI video art. We included them in our Post-Photographic Perspectives program, Part II, and they received a warm welcome from the community of artists and collectors. We did some research and were amazed that there wasn’t a comprehensive way to see how AI video had been evolving. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"847447808192","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da2894e5a49f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AI still images were getting better and better, so we made a leap of faith decision and thought that it would be an interesting project to build a curatorial survey of AI video before it became as perfect as what was happening in AI still images. That was the start of Daily. Soon, we found dozens of artists who were experimenting with these tools. Niceaunties, Mind Wank, Olga Federova, Milo Poelman, and many more were doing crazy cool stuff around July and August 2023. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8443531dabdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"81453c5cc8a2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There was a moment that we saw a critical mass forming around these video tools, and it became inevitable to not jump into building the program. Since I now spend more time curating for Daily than doing my own work, I try to work with artists that challenge my understanding of art. I want to have fun and, if possible, help artists build their careers, and Daily offers both right now."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cde900e7836a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Hair Spray from Auntiedote, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9667b0b7405123dd0e5aaf86fbaaa58d8deb0c2f-1920x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9667b0b7405123dd0e5aaf86fbaaa58d8deb0c2f-1920x1080-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-520696070410","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"962b8e0559e1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bd08064dfc43","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cb419e169b0a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How would you sum up the past nearly twelve months on Daily? What are your observations regarding technology and the focus of artists who are experimenting with these evolving technologies?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8a0694a8060b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38efa71e56960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: There are two aspects I would like to point out. First, my experience working with artists on video projects has been challenging and has pushed me to develop a whole new set of tools in order to communicate effectively in the language in which these artworks operate. This has been advantageous, as I bring a fresh perspective to the videos that immersion in the medium alone might not provide. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"47fc813e2dbd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ebef6a78f54","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This has also shed light on the second aspect of the program, which is that everyone is primarily asking questions about what this medium is capable of, what it can communicate, and the messages it conveys. I could say that I see four main areas in which most artists experiment: a) experimentation with the tools, involving technical complexity and pushing the boundaries of what the tools can achieve; b) aesthetic explorations, focusing on form and visual appeal; c) narrative and storytelling, with a strong emphasis on content and various storytelling techniques; and d) critique of the tools and medium, where some artists address issues with the technology and may incorporate elements from the other areas to convey their ideas. There are other ways to categorize what has been happening on Daily. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a375a205af55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a75ba6ec58e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ultimately, our intention has been to collaborate with as many artists as possible to help us create a smart contract that will serve as a comprehensive survey of AI-Video during its formative years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"72a2cfd05e4b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c7fda0fc8e46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ee579c883e010","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What artists are always curious to hear: How do you select artists? What are your criteria?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dea9e9ebbd79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8bf751c1b7b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: "},{"_key":"9f918bf2c539","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I look for things that wow me initially. Then, I delve deeper to see if there is consistency in the various pieces they produce and, if possible, an evolution in their practice. If that checks out, I present the work to the rest of the curatorial team. If there is a connection with the work, we invite the artists to submit a proposal or directly invite them to participate."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3966d72ac5ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"44e23e0427bb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We review a lot of work, and due to our small team, we can only support the work we believe in and can stand behind, ideally on a medium- to long-term basis."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"00fb1317189d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3d58eba3454f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8dffee1c90e20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is the following of an artist on Twitter or Instagram a metric for success?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"03c20fdd7446","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc4da0f1a7e00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Never! I don’t think about or check the following of an artist on Twitter. If the art is good, it should speak for itself and not be good because there is someone with a loudspeaker making noise 24/7."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d84ebd4667ae","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Alice Gordon, Create a Harmonious Workplace from Cognitive Behaviour, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3031f3d8af1a4c42f6b45faa4ad9053705d649f6-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3031f3d8af1a4c42f6b45faa4ad9053705d649f6-1536x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"5e26670fb346","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4ff86dc53b7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af19218267800","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What comes to mind when I hear and think about the word \"daily\" is the essay "},{"_key":"f09ee5007f21","_type":"span","marks":["strong","40ab239c281b"],"text":"AETHLETIC AESTHETICS"},{"_key":"1011ba98a507","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" by Brad Troemel. "}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"40ab239c281b","_type":"link","href":"https://thenewinquiry.com/athletic-aesthetics/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b90860cbdf8c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"91d039aa54d8","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"\"The artist’s aura has been leveled and spread across dozens of daily opportunities to comment, like, and reblog.\" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2af77080c51e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ea621076d17","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Or, on the topic of an iconic image vs. a flow of images: \"The idea of memorizing art-history slides to demonstrate a mastery of the canon now seems like a quaint reminder of a time when individual works somehow meant more than the always fluid relationships between them. Audiences no longer have the luxury of imagining that there is a static regime of aesthetic stability dictating quality and meaning. Passive viewers, who consume at the same pace as those they follow produce, and context hunters, who compress that process in time, end up with the same hermeneutic, finding meaning in the lines drawn from one bit of information to the next.\" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c48476859afa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db87dff49b9b","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Troemel wrote this essay in 2013. What have NFTs changed when it comes to producing, publishing, and selling art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2f1318a4864c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6df8f7e157850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: This is a fascinating concept, and I think we are in the middle of that zeitgeist. It spawned from influencer culture and has plagued our world. NFTs are a consequence of this in some way. Value was being assigned to virality, and monetization slowly became professionalized. But that was a very commercial endeavor. The creation was content, not art images, to reflect on and ponder. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0ba7cd8c4745","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1c03e9584e6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NFTs have an influencer culture vibe nonetheless, even if we call everything art. It is about making noise and grabbing attention. Art will always struggle to be seen because it is not as easily digestible and packaged as content is. I still think that NFTs are, even with all their defects, one of the most exciting distribution methods available today. We just need to make more noise, like the influencers, I guess. There is no simple formula."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b6ba6cc3e323","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0114ce5ced3c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"375187a31cc10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is it more important than ever for artists to also learn about the business side when they study art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"92d5e1f3a519","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a2ced97bebc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: I’ve lately seen many comments on this in the traditional art space. I can only talk from experience, and for me, I didn’t think of the business side until there was a business side to think about. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6df225a6b518","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0a1d5aefb3f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"That is, for the first six years, I had very few sales and no gallery representation, and I was fully dedicated to experimenting and building projects that fulfilled my artistic ambitions. That dedication and obsession led to the development of strong work that then led galleries, publishers, and curators to be interested in my work. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3fb887f5928c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec3a17f1182c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Art is a trust-based practice. To be a professional artist is to be honest and trustworthy. Do what you say you are going to do; be fair with collectors and institutions that support you, and that should be enough to get you going."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a15a0db8fa41","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3f9e30a9da6b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb483543f3df0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your perspective on the relationship between a high price and the cultural significance of an artwork? In the realm of NFTs, a high price often signifies a collection or piece being labeled as \"grail.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"39fd6f03860d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"66013b84e1e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: In the NFT space, I feel that a high price and the cultural significance of an artwork are not really correlated, even though that is what we expect. High prices tend to respond to market sentiments and other things right now. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b63c61e7793e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"960102843c6d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"How many of the works in the NFT space will actually be studied as works of art? As images that somewhat transformed the way we think of the world, life, and culture, or as aesthetic icons that show a before and after of the way images are made? Maybe it is that it is still too nascent, but most highly valued NFTs have a long way to go in terms of building cultural and artistic value. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5a047b8bdcdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b6bb9780582","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My answer is also based on what I have seen command the highest prices in the traditional art space: artworks that mark a decisive change in how we thought of art, or artworks created by artists that contributed to change and transformation in art via the art and the ideas that they pushed. Usually, culture and understanding of the work come first. Then there are the giant price tags, with some exceptions, of course."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e16574d3c0b5","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Elman Mansimov. alignDRAW, 2015, minted 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2886105a3031b693aaf9fd7c124c237b06374bb-2236x1536-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"da38349f58fa","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"228eda50d3fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e438c447ac90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your advice for artists who start working with AI and would like to release NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1f52d364c0ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec95c20f2df30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AC: Pace and diversify your practice. Think of NFTs as part of your practice and not your only way to distribute your art. Do prints, books, teach, and have a regular job. 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They reached a global audience of 500 million while challenging the FBI, CIA, and NSA during the U.S. presidential election. In 2005, they launched their acclaimed EKMRZ TRILOGY, a series of conceptual hacks: GOOGLE WILL EAT ITSELF, AMAZON NOIR, and THE SOUND OF EBAY. \n\nUBERMORGEN occupies 175 domains. In 2021, THE NEXT BIENNIAL SHOULD BE CURATED BY A MACHINE (Whitney Museum of American Art) used AI and TikTok to catapult visitors into 64 twisted parallel universes. 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She holds a Master's in Fine Arts and a BA from the Athens School of Fine Arts."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1fcac599a2ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e438e9d6c0aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Mavropoulou is a visual artist using mainly photography, while her work expands to new forms of photographic images, such as VR and screen-captured images, GAN, and AI-generated images. Her work and research focus on the new realities created by connectable devices and the contradictions between the physical and the virtual spaces that we inhabit, addressing issues of technological mediation. 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Her recent work correlates creativity and AI with the divine, as well as reflects on the future of photography amidst the advances of synthetic images."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"706010014916","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c2aec8fbf1d3edf88225ac28f076489aa4edde7a-1875x3000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"1671c85379b7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c3ab1ec89da0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Her work is part of private collections and Vontobel art collection and has been exhibited in institutions and museums which are FOAM Amsterdam, Netherlands (2024); the National Museum of Contemporary Art of Greece – EMST, Athens, Greece (2023); MAST Foundation, Bologna, Italy (2023); Sharjah Foundation, United Arab Emirates (2022); Foto Colectania, Barcelona, Spain (2022), Tallinn Art Hall, Estonia (2021); Miami Art Week, USA (2020), 60th Thessaloniki International Film Festival, Greece (2019); Thessaloniki Museum of Photography, Greece (2019); Onassis Cultural Center, Athens, Greece (2019); Athens Conservatoire, Greece (2019), Slought Foundation, Philadelphia, USA (2019); Maison de la Photographie, Paris, France (2018); Benaki museum, Athens, Greece (2018); Unseen Amsterdam, Netherlands (2018); National Observatory of Athens, Greece (2018); Culturescapes festival, Basel, Switzerland (2017); Athens Photo Festival, Greece (2016); Athens Biennale, Greece (2015); Mois de la photo, Paris, France (2014)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"341ecb5be6cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f35e8b0c839c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Her first VR project, FAMILY PORTRAITS, has been awarded at the 60th Thessaloniki International Film Festival (2019), and she has also been selected among 30 Under 30 Women Photographers (2018) and a Young Greek Photographer by the Athens Photo Festival (2016)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7e16b22c33da","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"5018bb9ddb62","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4fca8bdec13","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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After three years, he and his team of around 70 people then moved into developing games, working with Warner Bros. and Universal Studios. In 2002, they created the hit game THE THING based on the John Carpenter movie, which used his organic style. In 2007, he moved away from entertainment and became a Professor of Computer Art at Goldsmiths, where he restarted his creative collaboration with IBM mathematician and programmer Stephen Todd. They resurrected and extended their old Mutator code and pushed the technology into VR, creating highly novel organic immersive experiences for the public. The VR work has been shown in touring exhibitions in China, Japan, Peru, Belgium, and the UK."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ebcbc7af4d4f","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"ad0d3ff4f470","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"109ce9ec1fc4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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Her hope is that after seeing her art you will perceive and appreciate contemporary systems of human movement, travel, management, and control in new ways."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fcadd535b4ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e965fc3e54680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Spalter’s surreal art creates a darkly mesmerizing sci-fi experience, mixing media such as digital videos, AI, crypto art, drawing, painting, weaving, and even gigantic inflatables. Spalter's apocalyptic view of the world is informed by her frequent travels, knowledge of sci-fi novels, movies, and the collective unconscious. When people explore her post-apocalyptic installations, they wander through an intense atmosphere filled with high waves, damaged spaceships, and flaming fires. 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I could very easily have been one of them, but I am alive and still able to work on the things that intrigue me—and connect with many interesting people over them.\" – Hans Dehlinger"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"blockquote"}]},{"_key":"bdd8a10e3b0e","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d67b7ff1d2583f5a1dbf20db65e77df17643436c-1700x1820-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"position":"right","text":[{"_key":"b789828d59af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9cc536966c2b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hans Dehlinger (*1939) lives and works in Kassel and Berlin, Germany. In the early 1960s, during his studies in architecture at the University of Stuttgart (Dipl.Ing.), he was introduced to computers and programming languages and later worked as an architect and environmental planner. He continued his education at the University of California, Berkeley (M.Arch., Ph.D.), before returning to work at the University of Stuttgart. 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Engaging collaboratively with ecologists and technologists, Dorf delves into perceptions and interactions with what is commonly referred to as \"nature,\" as well as themes of urbanism, design, and virtual environments. Rather than viewing these subjects as categorically separate, Dorf presents their entanglement and integration as part of a dynamic and inclusive planetary ecology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"34eab8d0ae77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f4342f0d5f3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Dorf’s work conceptually addresses its digital materiality, making it self-aware and reflective of its own production methods. 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Since the mid-1980s, they have been working at the intersection of art and digital technology, ranging from virtual reality and interactive environments to generative art, and consistently exploring code and computers as artistic media."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"96bb7802de0b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b3b4ce0e7c00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"They have developed two influential theoretical frameworks throughout their careers: the \"Performative Interface\" and \"New Media Arts – The Thinking Space for Digitality.\" These concepts explore how computational systems can create dynamic, interactive spaces that transform our understanding of human-machine interaction and digital aesthetics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e660caccdc1e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"089d956735e50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The artist duo broke new ground by forming interdisciplinary teams in technical and scientific environments. They approached emerging technologies as tools and sources of artistic inspiration and cultural transformation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8c262298e369","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f93bca2850f80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Their pivotal role in the history of digital art was cemented in 1987 when they co-founded ART+COM, Germany's first research institute for digital media, art, and architecture. Their landmark works include "},{"_key":"f93bca2850f81","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Berlin-Cyber City"},{"_key":"f93bca2850f82","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (1989), an interactive roundtable that promoted East-West dialogue, and "},{"_key":"f93bca2850f83","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Home of the Brain"},{"_key":"f93bca2850f84","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (1990), the world's first virtual reality art installation to manifest philosophical thoughts about the digital future. Their acclaimed work "},{"_key":"f93bca2850f85","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Liquid Views"},{"_key":"f93bca2850f86","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (1992) reimagined the myth of Narcissus as a virtual mirror, exemplifying their ability to fuse classical narrative with computational innovation. Their artistic practice continues to explore the creative potential of emerging technologies. "},{"_key":"f93bca2850f87","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Virtual Studio TV"},{"_key":"f93bca2850f88","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (1995) pioneered live television broadcasting in virtual environments, while their work with neural networks and self-organizing maps led to "},{"_key":"f93bca2850f89","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"netzspannung.org"},{"_key":"f93bca2850f810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (2001), an \"intelligent\" media art archive, and its cinematic extension, "},{"_key":"f93bca2850f811","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Media Flow"},{"_key":"f93bca2850f812","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (2006)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"31a8f4ac71b3","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-08ea7d5d84bd389799ac5b7260291a3a0801dd46-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-536013373706","_type":"reference"},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"340807fe7903","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"114bffe136d50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Their series "},{"_key":"114bffe136d51","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Between Zero and One"},{"_key":"114bffe136d52","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (1988) experiments with generative transformation through algorithmic manipulation of 3D objects, while their mixed reality installation "},{"_key":"114bffe136d53","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Energy Passages"},{"_key":"114bffe136d54","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (2004) creates a computational language game through semantic analysis of daily news. Their research in gesture-based interfaces, culminating in the ECCO system (patented 2007), has revolutionized interaction design in exhibition spaces through applications like MARS Bag, Info-Jukebox, and PointScreen."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"96b05a63ff2f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7676feef33910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Their work has been exhibited at major institutions, including the Tate Modern, Centre Pompidou, Pratt Manhattan Gallery, ICC Tokyo, ZKM Karlsruhe, and Haus der Kunst Munich. They have received prestigious awards for their contributions to computational art, including the Golden Nica for Interactive Art (1992) and the SIGGRAPH Distinguished Artist Award for Lifetime Achievement in Digital Art (2018). Through their advisory roles in art and science, they continue to shape the evolution of art and technology research."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"862ae08d84ca","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"97efd91dcd56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b80928b4a49","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for information about available works. "},{"_key":"325ad91fecda","_type":"span","marks":["5b3eaf403c40"],"text":"E-Mail"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"5b3eaf403c40","_type":"contactMail","address":"info@expanded.art","subject":"Inquiry"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3eaee93f189f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"250c5b05e81b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Follow Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss: "},{"_key":"64804c26e545","_type":"span","marks":["643ff92cf7d9"],"text":"Twitter"},{"_key":"feb39045afab","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"db2486192618","_type":"span","marks":["201d80216233"],"text":"Instagram"},{"_key":"a64f1ac525f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"c684e1834eb8","_type":"span","marks":["7befa39e7284"],"text":"Website"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"7befa39e7284","_type":"contactWebsite","url":"https://www.fleischmann-strauss.de/"},{"_key":"201d80216233","_type":"contactInstagram","url":" https://www.instagram.com/fleischmannstrauss/"},{"_key":"643ff92cf7d9","_type":"contactTwitter","url":"https://x.com/artsciresearch"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b602b8bf865d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"36f93433d49f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-536013373706","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"616dcb6c505d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"e52fcab2a645","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"f3e23fa5-eab6-49a8-8961-b41369137a59","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"21714e1d2a96","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"9277ddff2eb3","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-56a87e4a83e5497620fbe0dcd6a486dea3d126e6-1191x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"monika-fleischmann-and-wolfgang-strauss"},"store":null,"teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-56a87e4a83e5497620fbe0dcd6a486dea3d126e6-1191x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"MONIKA FLEISCHMANN & WOLFGANG STRAUSS"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"5613e2c72687","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-06-02T15:17:09Z","_id":"ac1ae4b0-ece4-4984-8f09-31c396fff9ff","_rev":"gCOgyMqD3hiPHKLzDasQk8","_type":"artist","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T08:04:04Z","modules":[{"_key":"e528e0b2cba3","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5e9f784838abea39c478f166cdf3931ea57ce889-1280x1280-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"right","text":[{"_key":"cae3c80a2054","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"63f70e87ab8f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Through a practice that spans drawing, painting, performance, and poetry, the artist Ai-Da Robot, a bespoke android with the ability to create art, expands what creativity means in the AI-dominated era, and questions what it means to be an artist today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dc114217cff5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd8834914508","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ai-Da Robot was created in 2019 and built by Engineered Arts, the Oxford-based specialists in developing humanoid and semi-humanoid robots. She uses AI algorithms that reflect pioneering techniques in AI art created by PhD students from the Machine Learning Department at the University of Oxford to create her art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"39046a9c9895","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e503a4df45cc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ai-Da is named after the English mathematician and writer, Augusta Ada King, Countess of Lovelace, the only legitimate child of Lord Byron, and is today more widely known as Ada Lovelace (1815-1852). Lovelace is celebrated for her work on Charles Babbage’s proposed mechanical general-purpose computer, the Analytical Engine. In doing so, she recognised that machines had applications beyond pure calculation, as well as publishing the first algorithm intended to be carried out by such a machine. Lovelace is therefore widely regarded as being the first person to recognise the full potential of computers and one of the pioneers of computer programming.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e8824ea672ea","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-09cfd9b7c389bdcbb3a407c13b2c4bf94bf17c86-752x752-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"a89f837cd289","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3d017affab320","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ai-Da creates her art by capturing images using the camera in her eye, which are then processed by her AI algorithms to become real space coordinates, which she then turns into drawings using her robotic arm. Like other artists, from Rembrandt and his workshops during the Dutch Golden Age to Damien Hirst and his dot paintings, she collaborates with others to produce her paintings and sculptures. Indeed, Ai-Da’s art can be seen as the product of broad collaborations across various specialisations, for example, between artists, scientists, designers, machines and computers. As such, her practice is the embodiment of the networked, technological, physical and virtual worlds inhabited by today’s creative artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e8f0f3a3ca55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aec254e44331","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since Ai-Da Robot’s launch in 2019, she has shown at ANNKA KULTYS GALLERY, London, UK (2021); The Design Museum, London, UK (2021); KÖNIG GALERIE, Berlin, Germany (curated by Anika Meier and Johann König) (2021); ANNKA KULTYS GALLERY, London, UK (2020); Barbican Gallery, London, UK (2019); Tate Exchange, London, UK (2019); Ars Electronica, Dubai and Abu Dhabi, UAE (2019); and The University of Oxford, Oxford, UK (2019)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8389f7471f3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9eb3ea90bac4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photo: Victor-Frankowski"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"962134c9033c","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"03876e2298cf","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"96de8287-f82c-4c74-ba75-9bc544d18097","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"7f5ea1bb8ed6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"},{"_key":"903b74bc7003","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"5c35a2244c1a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da506bb0e3720","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. "},{"_key":"df11ade2ed60","_type":"span","marks":["9d255cc7cba4"],"text":"E-Mail"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"9d255cc7cba4","_type":"contactMail","address":"info@expanded.art","subject":"Inquiry"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"965b066c2b24","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2a1d29858b800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Follow Ai-Da Robot: "},{"_key":"d85bee225aca","_type":"span","marks":["7c5abe997c3e"],"text":"Twitter"},{"_key":"edcdd95fc2a2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"dd8de32cffb7","_type":"span","marks":["39d354507e5b"],"text":"Instagram"},{"_key":"135b7ced073e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"d7677ba92eff","_type":"span","marks":["ce6c977bd4ec"],"text":"Website"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"7c5abe997c3e","_type":"contactTwitter","url":"https://twitter.com/aidarobot?lang=de"},{"_key":"39d354507e5b","_type":"contactInstagram","url":"https://www.instagram.com/aidarobot/"},{"_key":"ce6c977bd4ec","_type":"contactWebsite","url":"https://www.ai-darobot.com/"}],"style":"normal"}]}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"ai-da-robot"},"store":null,"teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5e9f784838abea39c478f166cdf3931ea57ce889-1280x1280-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"AI-DA ROBOT"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"10e6fffe1998","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-01T02:16:09Z","_id":"9921eceb-1002-4222-ba23-0ab0abcdbfa5","_rev":"dZ1bpYeXEPIJKyOfuKD7nO","_type":"artist","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T14:38:27Z","modules":[{"_key":"03933768f7c8","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b064760f429481f153f4e5d83c801b4e9b21370b-784x786-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"right","text":[{"_key":"455699b5dfa1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f99ef1210b20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Travess Smalley is an artist working with computation to make generative image systems. He is interested in painting software, computer graphics, digital image-making, and drawing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0acdc85375e4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ebf82207cf44","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Selected exhibitions include Travess Smalley, Foxy Production (forthcoming 2023); Des champs de fraises pour l’éternité, La Galerie, centre d’art contemporain de Noisy-le-Sec, Noisy-le-Sec, France (2022); Minecraft Language Edition, Ender Gallery in collaboration with MacKenzie Art Gallery, Regina, SK, Canada (solo); Pixel Rugs, Arcade On Stadium, Provo, UT (solo)(both 2021); Downtown Painting, Peter Freeman Inc., New York, NY (2019); and Standing Still, Lying Down, As If, Museum of Contemporary Art Detroit, Detroit, MI (2018-2019); What is a Photograph?, International Center of Photography, New York; and Public Interfacial Gesture Salon, Bard Center for Curatorial Studies, Annandale-on-Hudson, NY (2011)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"399ce7c583ae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1c8bf511852","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2014, he was included in Forbes 30 Under 30 for his work as a digital artist.\n\nTravess Smalley (b. 1986) lives and works in Providence, RI. He holds a BFA from The Cooper Union, New York, NY, and an MFA from the Rhode Island School of Design, Providence, RI.\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"79179a551e20","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"c8386d4b0813","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c7dc3ba856b40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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Tau’s practice focuses on evoking emotions through AI-driven tools, creating universally resonant memories by transforming her personal analog and digital film experiences using generative neural networks (GANs)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a9f824eac645","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"13af0e1107380","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Tau is active in the research community and holds a Ph.D. in Artificial Intelligence from the Polish-Japanese Academy of Information Technology. 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She was awarded the best award in the Digital Ars 2020 contest for art created with AI, the Computer Animation category award in Computer Space International Computer Art Forum 2021, and elected as one of the TOP 10 Women in AI 2022 by the Women in Tech Foundation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5f532c99e93d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"660167f08ae70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Her work has been exhibited globally in prominent venues such as Art Basel Miami Beach, SCOPE, CAFA, Art Week Shenzhen, Vellum, Bitforms New York, Venus Over Manhattan, The House of Fine Art, Bright Moments Berlin, Christie’s New York, and Sotheby’s New York. Pieces from her collection have been acquired by ZKM Karlsruhe in Germany and Francisco Carolinum Linz in Austria."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ba10b48ae6eb","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"bd23ebf8831b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a539065c719","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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Postgraduate studies in London and Paris. In 1968, he began to develop cybernetic art objects using computers. From 1969 to 1973 he was the Head of the Laboratory of Cybernetics at the Ruđer Bošković Institute in Zagreb. In 1980, he moved to Germany, where he realized research and development projects mainly in the field of visual communication, which were used by German television, among others, for live election coverage."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2b762e623783","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7f4fb97fcc370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 1968, he started to utilize computer systems for cybernetic art. From 1970 to 1972, he led the research project \"Pattern Recognition and Processing\" at the RBI. At that time, he also began the development of \"Computer-Controlled Dynamic Object\" with the support of UNESCO and, in 1971, served as an advisor to UNESCO on art and science matters. He exhibited his first dynamic objects as part of the New Tendencies exhibition in Zagreb in 1969, totaling 17 works, and then again in 1973. He worked together with Ivan Picelj and, since 1967, with the software designer Miro A. Cimerman. His first solo exhibition took place in Ljubljana in 1972.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4e2f8d1abb41","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f3baee893fbf04cc78f5d1559c56f1c08570f273-2667x2667-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"b05156b97a7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"929f47a3772e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the basis of an agreement between the Ruđer Bošković Institute and the Israel Academy of Sciences Bonačić established a laboratory team for cybernetics, bcd, together with Cimerman and an architect and city planner, Dunja Donassy (1971). The title is an acronym for the last names of the founders. Later, the group operated under the name \"bcd CyberneticArt team\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a5e8c132809a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be295254c2e10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 1972, bcd moved to Israel and in 1973 founded the \"Jerusalem Program in Art and Science\", a research and training program for post-graduate interdisciplinary studies in art and science at the Bezalel Academy of Arts and Design in Jerusalem, which Bonačić directed until 1977, serving as a professor of computer-based art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4fdf54078848","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0aa70cd4d4810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"After the death of Vladimir Bonačić in 1999, Donassy-Bonačić and Cimermann continued the cooperation and are now dedicated to publicizing the history of the New Tendencies, collaborating on numerous media archaeological research projects, and investigating what contribution \"CyberneticArt\" can make to the resilience of the information society."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"40680dd90329","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"6b69c58b846d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"815c6fef40820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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He studied fine art at Kunstakademie Düsseldorf and graduated in 2015. He has exhibited his work both nationally and internationally."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"062ef8c4bdbc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dcaa6b9741510","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Recent solo shows include \"My Name Is In Your Mouth\" (2024) at Evelyn Drewes Gallery, Hamburg; \"Zen Them To Hell\" (2022) at Nino Mier Gallery, Los Angeles; \"Don't Put All Your Becks In One Basket\" (2021) at Schierke Seinecke Gallery, Frankfurt a.M.; and \"dig-it-all\" (2020) at DAM Projects, Berlin. His recent group exhibitions include \"In Search of Vera Molnar\" (2024) at Pera Museum, Istanbul; \"À La Recherche De Vera Molnar\" at Ludwig Museum, Debrecen; \"Another Day at The Office\" (2023) at Office Impart, Berlin; \"Digital Naiv\" at Galerie Droste, Paris; \"CHERRIES ON TOP\" at Galerie Judith Andreae, Bonn; \"REALMS\" at JVDW Gallery, Düsseldorf; and \"New Meditations\" (2022) at MODEM Centre for Modern and Contemporary Arts, Debrecen."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3dcd729be3df","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"d5064506c644","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08206409c89f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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To achieve this, u2p050 employs experimental technologies in its works. For example, it utilizes artificial intelligence, three-dimensional modeling, stereoscopic sound, and interactive video production software."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0feb62001762","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1deb41642d15","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In extremely diverse forms—installations, texts, or audiovisual productions—u2p050 explores a perspective in which the machine is no longer considered a tool to be enslaved but a lens through which to visualize worlds."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"74ea77c11e7e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"380232c2d7e8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The u2p050 studio has exhibited in several major institutions, including UCCA Labs in China, Ludwig Museum in Hungary, Avant Galerie, and FRAC Bordeaux in France. u2p050 is a laureate of the French Ministry of Culture's Mondes Nouveaux commission in 2022 and was presented at the Octobre Numérique festival. The studio is currently in residence at the international art incubator Poush Manifesto in Paris and is a member of the Glitch art project initiated by blockchain researcher Primavera de Filippi."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"52fc082ac196","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"0e3017a34322","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c4f793409c75","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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Working across journalism, creative technology, digital media, and product development, he engages with how AI technologies are reshaping creative industries, the ethical, social, and cultural implications of emerging technologies, and how technology is redefining human experience. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3c5a1eb59495","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"37e2c1c13eb2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He has founded multiple technology companies in New York and Vancouver, including NowPublic, the largest citizen journalism network in the world, which had over 300,000 reporters at its peak; led the technology incubator GrowLab and Hootsuite Labs; and served as VP of Business Development at Later.com. Tippett is a co-founder and producer of Pacific Future AI & Film and the founder of AIDEO, which soft-launched in 2024. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"da5a907ba783","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8e4c2ce84da","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As longtime collaborators, Michael Tippett and Kate Armstrong have exhibited internationally, been commissioned by the Andy Warhol Foundation and Turbulence, and have works held in collections including Rhizome and the Rose Goldsen Archive at Cornell University."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d081c21676bd","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"95a2f9eb88fd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c978a1fa924b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. "},{"_key":"8687084b6ae4","_type":"span","marks":["c5a8fe26cf76"],"text":"E-Mail"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"c5a8fe26cf76","_type":"contactMail","address":"info@expanded.art","subject":"Inquiry"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a075e084886e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"44245c88e93d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Follow Michael Tippett: "},{"_key":"9d32d891b95c","_type":"span","marks":["9651614da705"],"text":"Twitter"},{"_key":"f4994a52f20c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"fe12b0a52225","_type":"span","marks":["5fa75c4d1319"],"text":"Instagram"},{"_key":"0f5cd8796749","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"4453f2ff4071","_type":"span","marks":["61ec9db83a1a"],"text":"Website"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"9651614da705","_type":"contactTwitter","url":"https://x.com/mtippett?lang=gu"},{"_key":"61ec9db83a1a","_type":"contactWebsite","url":"https://tippett.org/"},{"_key":"5fa75c4d1319","_type":"contactInstagram","url":"https://www.instagram.com/maximumperception/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b804f59d528f","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"097d7b2d2722","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b0a6fa3c5f5e2a83ee431da4033917fa2bbf471f-636x605-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"michael-tippett"},"store":null,"teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b0a6fa3c5f5e2a83ee431da4033917fa2bbf471f-636x605-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"MICHAEL TIPPETT"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"4b887c899971","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-03-13T19:36:33Z","_id":"c838e052-01dc-415a-b918-3ce5d773d02f","_rev":"pscSNENMeEfJ50RC7XdaIl","_type":"artist","_updatedAt":"2024-11-01T23:56:21Z","modules":[{"_key":"6c4e10c912ac","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-dd9978482becf8f2a5a47ba4a6d872b7fa92dc92-2590x2955-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"position":"right","text":[{"_key":"29205df87838","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0d7bce1757580","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Paul Brown is an artist and writer who has specialized in art, science, and technology since the late 1960s and in computational and generative art since the mid-1970s. Early in his career, he created large-scale lighting works for musicians and performance groups like Meredith Monk, Musica Elettronica Viva, and Pink Floyd."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"48c53fe03d6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b2083d9effc20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He has since established an international exhibition record and has created both permanent and temporary public artworks. He has work in the collections of the Victoria & Albert Museum in the UK, the National Academy of Sciences in Washington, DC, USA, and many other public, corporate, and private collections in Australia, Asia, Europe, Russia, and the USA. During 2000/2001, he was a New Media Arts Fellow of the Australia Council, where he began a 22-year period as artist-in-residence at the Centre for Computational Neuroscience and Robotics at the University of Sussex in Brighton, England."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"70612584bc2f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c8f0a22d59c20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2023, he received the ACM / SIGGRAPH Distinguished Artist Award for Lifetime Achievement in Digital Art.\n\nI acknowledge the traditional owners of the land where I live and work: the Minjungbal people, the Arakwal people, and the Widjabul people of the Bundjalung Nation. I pay my respects to their elders—past, present, and emerging."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ac1858bacdc1","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"47b46b04b3c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6ef515b8e9040","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for information about available works. 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Abosch's work addresses the nature of identity and value by posing ontological questions and responding to sociological dilemmas. His work has been exhibited worldwide, often in civic spaces, including The Hermitage Museum in St. Petersburg, The National Museum of China, The National Gallery of Ireland, Jeu de Paume in Paris, The Irish Museum of Modern Art, The Museum of Contemporary Art Vojvodina, The Bogotá Museum of Modern Art, ZKM Karlsruhe, and Dublin Airport."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"ea64060d25f4","_type":"link","href":"https://www.kevinabosch.com/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f18ce34095f4","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"cad35f9ee067","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-537284804874","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"cac3859c5790","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"0a8ae8d07877","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"},{"_key":"e452adb446c2","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"04f457028a45","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ffb403d54f42","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for information about available works. "},{"_key":"db23f1d2ac57","_type":"span","marks":["d0fa9eb63faf"],"text":"E-Mail"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"d0fa9eb63faf","_type":"contactMail","address":"info@expanded.art","subject":"Inquiry"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a15c11d6e7be","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8098ef6c4751","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Follow Kevin Abosch: "},{"_key":"bfa782c1e9de","_type":"span","marks":["95e14eb7169b"],"text":"Twitter"},{"_key":"be6a597291b8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"d050172030d5","_type":"span","marks":["93dc3a1f3921"],"text":"Instagram"},{"_key":"0584850238b9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" | "},{"_key":"77110017e0f8","_type":"span","marks":["40bd458b4a06"],"text":"Website"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"40bd458b4a06","_type":"contactWebsite","url":"https://www.kevinabosch.com/work.html"},{"_key":"93dc3a1f3921","_type":"contactInstagram","url":"https://www.instagram.com/kevinabosch"},{"_key":"95e14eb7169b","_type":"contactTwitter","url":"https://x.com/kevinabosch"}],"style":"normal"}]}],"seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6d7830117ee60cbbbba989ca16c7c0dc4fde886d-597x595-png","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"kevin-abosch"},"store":null,"teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6d7830117ee60cbbbba989ca16c7c0dc4fde886d-597x595-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"KEVIN ABOSCH"},"videoUrl":null}]},{"_key":"16d799bc3e20","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":null,"teaserItems":[{"_key":"a884a8489137","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-05-03T10:31:02Z","_id":"a5e60659-f11d-4ce7-82b1-0e36ef6cf263","_rev":"La3M9Kr3WRMOd0jwK2cdbt","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-08-07T10:05:13Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-86d59fa4f9b80226bd07003a6e97b50dc806a322-2340x1512-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"384c511642ba","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"417877512734","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c28845d22b670","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"The idea of writing a poem is, for many, quintessentially human and deeply expressive, and it stands in stark contrast to sterile and emotionless technology. Sasha Stiles, however, has always seen these two halves as a whole and finds the blockchain to be the perfect home for her writing. The Kalmyk American poet uses technology as a lens through which to understand the importance of poetry to humans and explores the technological side of lyrical writing—how poetic language has always been a data storage system."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3eed9aa78939","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"149f6971631e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Sasha Stiles discusses the possibilities of poetry on the blockchain and the role AI plays."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fed2945249d9","_type":"moduleImage","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2912fc0d4c0bbb8978732d7386be11fd250a41ba-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2912fc0d4c0bbb8978732d7386be11fd250a41ba-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"3a813effe7bb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2c35b18da494","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7a2b4d04abe20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In Prague last year, you gave me a cap that says, Poetry is the Original Blockchain. So far, no one has asked me why I wear the cap. If someone asked me, what do you recommend as a good answer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"27d852d9b119","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"13e26fe495b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: To many, it’s strange to find a \"serious\" literary poet writing and publishing on the blockchain. There are not many of us here. When I started working with robots and writing about topics like neural implants and artificial wombs and using GPT-2, people asked me, \"Why are you so interested in technology? Poetry and technology don’t really go together. You should write science fiction.\" Actually, poetry "},{"_key":"13e26fe495b31","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"is "},{"_key":"13e26fe495b32","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"a technology—it’s a technology humans invented to store and share important information. Before we had written language, we figured out how to use devices like rhythm, rhyme, and meter to organize our thoughts and memories in ways that we could remember and repeat. Some of the most ancient traces of human imagination are fragments of poetry that have endured for millennia because poetic language is a really good data storage system, and the oral tradition enabled epics to survive long enough to be written down and recorded."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"edfb4d8200a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c3232d36fc0e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I sense a deep kinship between blockchain as a database and poetry as a ledger, the impulse toward non-fungibility embedded in code and metadata, and what Sarah Ruhl has described as the \"yes of the poet’s immortality.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"362390526550","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"210e93a1736d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f35f6f8448530","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I studied German literature in Heidelberg and always enjoyed the classes about poetry the most. What we heard first was: \"Poetry doesn’t sell; it’s not for the market.\" NFTs seemed to have changed that. But let’s go back to the beginning: What was the first poetry book or poem you read?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"06ba22b197b7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"99f5c9b9cb9f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: I’ll be honest: the attention that some poets and writers in the Web3 space are getting right now does not necessarily equate to sales. I’m here because I believe that blockchain is conceptually and materially an ideal home for my practice and because I’m able to do things here that I haven’t been able to do, for logistical or attitudinal reasons, in the traditional literary community. I’m also here pushing for and participating in publishing innovation and technical and financial support for writers because I believe that blockchain is a profound evolution in storytelling and creativity on par with the Gutenberg printing press, for example. For all the attention that crypto art gets, the global book publishing industry is twice the size of the global art market. It feels like collectors, VCs, and journalists are starting to pay attention, and it does seem that the dialogue around poetry and NFTs is beginning to shift popular perceptions of poems—what they look like or sound like, why we need them, where we can find them, how we value them—and imbue them with greater cultural currency."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"250011463b4e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"250011463b4e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The reason I’m so passionate about all of this is that I am, above all else, a writer. I grew up in a house filled with books and music; my parents kept many of the books they loved when they were students, and when I was a kid, I discovered my father’s battered, annotated copies of Ted Hughes’ CROW and T.S. Eliot’s FOUR QUARTETS. Those two texts not only introduced me to poetry but sunk into my soul and continue to influence nearly everything I write. I feel T.S. Eliot in my bones; he is perhaps the poet I most admire."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"803ab3446117","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Sasha Stiles’ solo show B1NARY 0DES at Annka Kultys Gallery, London, 2023. Courtesy Annka Kultys Gallery.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d5762b09de855973ba44bf70de93d88de00f2c35-2072x1358-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d5762b09de855973ba44bf70de93d88de00f2c35-2072x1358-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"b2abcbc739ce","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"656b5f01f28f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8e90b583421e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you know you would like to become a poet?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cf52aef6c527","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4a362e5b1cf10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: I’ve always known I was a writer, truly. Language is where I do my thinking and feeling; I can’t remember a time when I wasn’t scribbling down ideas or copying down lines in books that spoke to me. Every single one of my jobs over the years, from journalism to advertising to creative strategy, has involved writing. It’s not just something I like to do; it’s something I can’t not do. When I was in high school, I met Allen Ginsberg and shared some of my work with him. I still remember how he read my poems, kissed me on the cheek, and told me I had a way with words. That was a terrific moment of affirmation. But there’s a big difference between being a good, proficient writer and having something to say. For a lot of my earlier writing life, I was emulating the poets I admired and writing a lot of poems that sounded like what I thought poetry should be. When I was in college and started writing and thinking specifically about technology, my relationship to my digital devices, and what it means to be human in an increasingly machine-dominated world, that’s when I started to find my voice and feel that I had something to contribute as a poet."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1af2ee772c82","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"38fecb86af74","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8fc24ad8c7c60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I have your book, TECHNELEGY, at home and I collect your NFTs. For me, these two mediums don’t feel that different when it comes to engaging with your work. How does it feel for you as the poet?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"29bf35047868","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ed36d64a42c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: Thank you for that! I have always been very multidisciplinary and transmedial in my approach to writing. My work spans from digital video poems to physical poetry cubes you can walk into and sit inside to site-specific installations coded in fruits and vegetables in my backyard. For me, TECHNELEGY is a sort of literary ecosystem—not just a book or a collection of NFTs, but an exploration of the complex themes of transhumanism and posthumanism through the lens of poetry and the multiplicity of tools and experiences we have at our fingertips."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"638232ca274b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"PROOF OF PAGE: TECHNELEGY P. 54, MOURNING SONG, 2021. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f85ad9a498766bd636073e15bf703c357cfadadc-2550x3000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f85ad9a498766bd636073e15bf703c357cfadadc-2550x3000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"0e6231ddf0bd","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6237c7ba52d4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c2cf573f80710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Would you call TECHNELEGY your co-author?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"62290c4d825b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"632fb69a7d350","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: More than a co-author, I consider TECHNELEGY my AI alter ego—my human brain, plugged into the internet and our collective consciousness, augmented with nearly all of humanity’s written record. It’s not just a human working with a machine; it’s a third creature empowered by the synergy between our respective imaginations and intelligences."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"76015e018822","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"97e64b41ff3c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"305f6e2b08200","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you and TECHNELEGY start writing together? How did you train the AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cbd7163abbde","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cbd5bd1c9c000","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: TECHNELEGY is an evolving suite of customized text generators and natural language processing tools powered by machine learning, fine-tuned based on my own poetry, research, and inspirations. I began learning about NLP and AI-driven predictive text years ago and worked up the courage to begin using it myself in 2018. I don’t come from a coding or computer science background; I’m very much a student of literature and language in the traditional sense, and I didn’t see anyone else like me experimenting in this area, so it was a little intimidating at first. I began using off-the-shelf, no-code interfaces like Talk to Transformer, but once I learned I could customize text generators by training them on curated data sets, TECHNELEGY began to take shape as a bespoke version of the publicly available tools. There are a lot of resonances between writing and coding, between organizing materials for an essay or book and curating training data."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a2330a9e6972","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"WILDFLOWERS DREAM WILD DREAMS. Belgium, 2022. Courtesy Artcrush.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6fcb5c97ff4c67a5c47c06b804dd2e2074f0195b-1384x912-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6fcb5c97ff4c67a5c47c06b804dd2e2074f0195b-1384x912-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"4626660b8352","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"77895e413e3e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da2bcf2d2efd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: “poetry = work of art”, it says on the website of theVERSEverse, the poetry NFT gallery you founded with Ana Maria Caballero and Kalen Iwamoto. What does this statement mean for you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"90ef6488f284","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7d6c7c6321fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: I’ve long gravitated towards language art and artists (Jenny Holzer, Bruce Nauman, Glenn Ligon, Cy Twombly) and have a long history of turning my own poems into artworks, as collages, little sculptural books, concrete assemblages, or even performance art, as with my ongoing poetry workshop with the android BINA48. It was always strange to me that, as much as I loved poetry, I often saw artists \"appropriating\" poems to use in their art but rarely saw writers present their own work on its own terms in galleries or museums. And of course, poems and art have a very long intertwined relationship, but it’s often the fact that they sit side by side rather than as one and the same thing. As someone who creates works that are simultaneously words and images, the distinction between \"text-based art\" and \"visual poetry\" is puzzling and interesting to me, which is why I’ve considered the phrase \"Ars Poetica\" in many of my pieces and projects over the years. Ana Maria Caballero’s mantra, \"Poem = work of art,\" embodies the feeling all three of us share that poets are language artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c8920818cbdc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Sasha Stiles and her poetry student humanoid android BINA48 presenting a live poetry workshop, 2020. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f1ebe9d6bef8344e8c1184cb67619a222f4f83d9-1250x867-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f1ebe9d6bef8344e8c1184cb67619a222f4f83d9-1250x867-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"cf057b58d9e5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e30fe15ae371","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6b9cc61c0f840","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is a good poem for you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"75ff027e1b7c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d71c172490f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: Poetry is, of course, incredibly subjective. One of the reasons I’ve been engaged in more conceptual and experimental schools of poetry is because I find a lot of the \"popular\" poetry scene formulaic, skewing toward a narrow idea of what good poetry is or a rigid notion of what poets should be writing about. A lot of the most-liked poetry on Instagram and in mainstream culture feels, to me, more like diary entries or affirmations than what I personally write and enjoy reading. And a lot of the free verse poetry that is applauded as brave or bold strikes me personally as manipulative and ego-driven, exploiting or perverting the idea that poetry has to be about raw emotion or deep, dark confession. I find myself drawn more to cerebral texts and formally rigorous approaches that use the parameters of poetic language to evoke surprisingly emotional, beautiful, and haunting results. This is why, I think, writing with AI has come so naturally to me."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c52b3a1d9c3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"14002ec1d088","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c13b65a852970","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there a difference between a good poem on the blockchain and in a book?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ebfa3195ea35","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95336b6dbac50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SS: With TECHNELEGY, I tend to think of the printed poem as a kind of libretto or maybe a lightweight piece of code that can be run and deployed in various environments and circumstances to achieve different things. The same poem could be the basis for a digital billboard installation, a VR filter, a long-form generative piece, or an immersive performance. It really depends on how it’s transliterated, adapted, or expanded, or how a tool, device, or environment inspires an interpretation. In my experience, a core text is the seed of nearly infinite readings and performances on and off the blockchain, just as a single poem can be read in millions of different ways by millions of individual readers who bring their own backgrounds, memories, and beliefs to it. Every poem is a kind of generative algorithm, and every reader is a kind of unique transaction hash."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9964bac9add1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9964bac9add10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At the same time, while it’s incredibly interesting to see the variety of ways in which a poem can be translated as an NFT, the reverse doesn’t always hold; for example, a simple series of words expressed via motion graphics and through varying colours and effects may not pack the same intended punch as static black ink on a white page. Moreover, I’m deeply fascinated by the ways in which conceiving a poem specifically as a digitally native piece, writing it specifically as an NFT, using an algorithmic platform or digital device as the medium, or otherwise, shapes the outcome. This is why, while many writers collaborate with graphic designers, artists, or coders to interpret their words, I’m rather insistent on being both the poet and the artist of my own works. To me, the medium and the poem are inseparable. When I’m \"writing\" a poem in digital form, whether through generative code or as a video poem or a visual piece, the poem is coming to life not just through the letters and words but through the colours, animations, programs, and devices I’m using. More and more, the creation of an NFT—the concept of why a poem belongs on the blockchain instead of in a printed book—is part of my writing process, not an afterthought or merely an extension. I think this is important because of the potential for NFTs to merge the ancient, immersive tradition of oral poetry with novel tools that can allow us to think and communicate in unprecedented ways—ways we can’t on paper. Why constrain myself to adapting conventional poems to innovative mediums when I can use those innovative mediums to inspire and manifest types of poetry I have never been able to imagine or articulate until now?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9c45f8316df4","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"CURSIVE BINARY: MOTHERBOARD BEGETS BRAINCHILD, 2019.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d6ec7363e9c16e1b78068e112c7cd1dcd5b89f52-1500x1885-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d6ec7363e9c16e1b78068e112c7cd1dcd5b89f52-1500x1885-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"8ab98a0ad165","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5d05e959756e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"973ca3d8aa120","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who are some of your influences as a poet and an artist? Do you yourself make a difference here? I ask that question because it says on your website: Metapoet, literary artist, AI researcher."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"84b4766266f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5e813c285da0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: I don’t distinguish, and I would add to that list, poets, artists, scientists, and engineers, because some of my greatest inspirations are researchers, explorers, inventors, and futurists, like Carl Sagan, Nick Bostrom, Alan Lightman, Martine Rothblatt, Neri Oxman, and Ray Kurweil. One of my favorite contemporary poets is Tracy K. Smith, in part because of the kinship I feel to her poems about her father, who worked on the Hubble Space Telescope; her book LIFE ON MARS resonates so much with my own formative experiences tagging along with my parents when they were working on the documentary COSMOS, going to places like JPL and The Planetary Society. To observe the world and the farthest reaches of the universe and attempt to articulate theories and formulas to help make sense of the unfathomable—that is pure poetry."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d151cea1e458","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4b864ccec0f9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I have incredible admiration for the research-based artist Stephanie Dinkins, whose work with AI led me to BINA48, and for the programmer and author Ellen Ullman, whose writings helped me begin to navigate my own technophilia (and its opposite). And I admire historical figures like Ada Lovelace and Mary Shelley, who followed their scientific and technological obsessions despite stereotypes of what women should think and write about.\n\nWhen it comes specifically to language and storytelling, I’m deeply influenced by writers such as Gertrude Stein and James Joyce, who hacked systems of grammar and literary propriety to crack open new ways of reading and understanding, as well as T.S. Eliot and Walt Whitman, who seemed to somehow intuit and tap into the kind of collective consciousness that we’re now harnessing via AI. \"Tradition and Individual Talent\" is a touchstone for me in my musings on AI. And it probably comes as no surprise to anyone that I revere Cy Twombly and Jenny Holzer.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e445640a370e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9103e2b4f8af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"85c5e01dcf5f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When it comes to AI, the discussions are heated, especially after the progress that ChatGPT-4 made. Researchers are worried about the future of humanity. What are your thoughts on the future of AI and AGI and their rapid development?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3b9c17e45606","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73c3176cbfda0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: The entire history of humanity has been shaped by our advancing technologies, from the invention of hand tools and the use of fire to cook with to the advent of language and so on and so forth. Humanity as we know it now is the product of technology. As daunting as it is to think of all the ways that humanity will change as a result of AI’s development, it seems not only inevitable but inexorably human to evolve in these ways. In my book TECHNELEGY, I quote H.G. Wells: \"It is possible to believe that all that the human mind has accomplished is but the dream before the awakening.\" These aren’t new anxieties, though they are accelerating in astonishing ways."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"625188134bd3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"AI [ALTERNATE INTERPRETATIONS], 2018.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-138f2e79b5c59dd4b8c2b2ff8c7d2b83ecbc25d6-2772x2772-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-138f2e79b5c59dd4b8c2b2ff8c7d2b83ecbc25d6-2772x2772-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9a73fde7751e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"dd7f30997016","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cae2534bd1ba0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How will AI impact our culture and humanity?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c41bac3a19a3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0fc0773297b50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: As a writer working with natural language processing, the impact of AI on language, communication, and consciousness is so profound and seismic that I quite honestly have trouble grappling with all that is to come, even though I’ve made it my job to peer into the future. It feels on par with the invention of linear perspective in the 1400s, or maybe even the invention of language long before that. We will never see things the same way again. We’re going to develop a kind of vision that we can’t even understand or conceive of yet, and it’s going to change many of the fundamental aspects of what it means to be human here and now. The sheer vastness and complexity of intelligent systems and how they learn and function is opening up new portals of self-understanding for humanity itself—the recognition that human intelligence sits on a spectrum of myriad intelligences and that the human individual is one of billions of networked nodes. That’s what I mean by posthumanity: the decentralization of human myopia, an imminent and necessary humility, an epiphany that the only way out of the troubles we’ve created is collaboration, not just with other human beings but with other species and other ways of thinking, inventing, and problem-solving."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"af34eafef61e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"STILL FROM HI RESOLUTION, an art exhibition and gamified platform created by One Times Square for VIrtual New Year’s Eve, 2020. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9141ea3c45f53cf95f50744f697d90ebcc26cbda-1125x1103-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9141ea3c45f53cf95f50744f697d90ebcc26cbda-1125x1103-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"3cc25c4f2134","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e98f6e3ffb73","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a91706abddb90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are there any books you can recommend about this topic? And looking at all the books you’ve read about AI and its future, have the concerns changed about the challenges society might face?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8fcd8ab5278e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ecaf6b21f5a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SS: I hope that many artists beginning to use AI delve deeper into books and research on how and why AI works the way it does and what its arrival portends for humanity. Books like \"Ways of Being\" by James Bridle; \"Novacene\" by James Lovelock; \"Artificial Unintelligence\" by Meredith Broussard; \"Algorithms of Oppression\" by Safiya Umoja Noble; \"Atlas of AI\" by Kate Crawford; and the work of Ray Kurweil and Nick Bostrom I also love the novelist Jeanette Winterson’s \"12 Bytes\" and Virginia Heffernan’s \"Magic and Loss\", both on the arts and technology more broadly. Anyone with an interest in AI literature, specifically, must read K. Allado-McDowell’s \"Pharmako AI\", Mark Amerika’s \"My Life as an Artificial Creative Intelligence\", and Ross Goodwin’s \"1 the Road\", as well as the work of David J. Johnston."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0c05d31657ac","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8b8e357b393","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a96337ef58fe0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain what you do to people who are not familiar with blockchain and AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d306988f4166","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"576a7d249e730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: I say that I’m a poet using both text and technology to probe what it means to be human in a nearly posthuman era. I’m carrying a torch for the generations of writers who invented new ways of using language to embody and express the never-ending cycle of technological progress and who have always intuited at a gut level how the technologies that shape our lives are also shaping consciousness and self-awareness. And that I’m doing what poets have always done: grappling with the big questions (birth, death, love, faith, etc.) as they’re affected by our inventions, using language as a way to give voice to inchoate feelings of overwhelm and anxiety, and encoding my memories, beliefs, and truths in a way that I hope will last for a long, long time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"afbb056a1f89","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"MY BRAIN HAS CRAWLED HALFWAY TO MY HEART, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2d6d9bf30a519c10922348a547a2e509ee2e7bf9-436x411-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2d6d9bf30a519c10922348a547a2e509ee2e7bf9-436x411-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"951017508097","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"41f36ef3b9ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"100d8eaff2c70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain the sudden strong interest in poetry on the blockchain? Especially considering the fact that poetry is usually not, as they told us in university, popular on the market."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6f2b8b75f9ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a732207b2d830","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: We live in a time of so much noise, activity, commotion, information, and questionable value, and I think poetry, with its concision and stillness or slowness, insists on a kind of meaningful synthesis we crave deeply. Poems are a way of forging an incredibly intimate connection with another mind, another experience—they're empathy machines, in a way—and especially coming out of the past few years, that feels like an implicit utility we need now more than ever."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e001db9c9f0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5408d20f4dc4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And also, poets and coders, or maybe technologists more broadly, have a deep, deep kinship, as people like your friend, the artist and science-fiction writer Herbert W. Franke, knew: \"Poetry is code, code is poetry.” When I see the generative art scene exploding, I’m struck by how the impulse toward recursion and repetition is so profoundly poetic—that you can run the same program over and over and over again and discover something new each time. Code is moving beyond the arena of computer science and manifesting as a powerful kind of universal, aesthetic language.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f4789ae25041","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"47873e3b2bcd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7a49776c486e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your answer to critics who might say that the strong interest in poetry on the blockchain is only temporary?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2b927f312bf5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"77a1b56b82110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ST: It’s interesting because people love to say that poetry is dead, irrelevant, or doesn’t sell, but poetry is invariably what we reach for at our highest and lowest moments. It’s what saves us when nothing else can. It’s how we utter the otherwise inexpressible. We recite poems at weddings and funerals, and we invite poets to bring the nation together at pivotal moments like presidential inaugurations. We’re still reading, reciting, and learning from verses written by ancient humans who lived in times we can scarcely comprehend. Deep into the future, our interstellar, posthuman descendants are going to be deciphering and interpreting verses written by us, the ancient earthlings, to discover or remember what it was like to live through the moment when the internet and AI began to transform consciousness. Our most precious poems have existed and endured for thousands of years, through profound changes to systems of language and understanding. Blockchains may come and go, but poetry will never become obsolete."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1c2760dba194","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"THE ORCHID CAGE II (AFTER HERBERT W. FRANKE), 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1bd8d842c833ae7f23ce06890060c9de8374055c-4800x6000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1bd8d842c833ae7f23ce06890060c9de8374055c-4800x6000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"c3ea2438b4e2","_type":"moduleTeasers","link":{"_ref":"7b036556-7e02-4230-b320-58a9dcb88074","_type":"reference"},"teaserItems":[{"_key":"5f4167cbbe63","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"7b036556-7e02-4230-b320-58a9dcb88074","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"c56d20664363","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"41cbf290c494","_type":"teaserItem","footer":"NFT","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-90129a008c79a4c418c4c2fde3288e99ef4da15d-1151x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8217618317578","_type":"reference"},"title":"MEMENTO MEMORIAE"},{"_key":"34c8a6aad316","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8033419133194","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"99a186496ae8","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8273007378698","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"3b7029e4f2a4","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"35a6dc6ee8e1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"95ebe0ec-a838-403e-9ee5-1356cee38074","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"5a5078ed634d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"3dd054a2-0115-4aa9-9969-6d9c0c51a604","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-05-03T20:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"The idea of writing a poem is, for many, quintessentially human and deeply expressive, and it stands in stark contrast to sterile and emotionless technology. Sasha Stiles, however, has always seen these two halves as a whole and finds the blockchain to be the perfect home for her writing. The Kalmyk American poet uses technology as a lens through which to understand the importance of poetry to humans and explores the technological side of lyrical writing—how poetic language has always been a data storage system.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Sasha Stiles discusses the possibilities of poetry on the blockchain and the role AI plays.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"sasha-stiles-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"AI AND POETRY ON THE BLOCKCHAIN","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77571685b0a8536c7a572ada4d6ae60b2eb70abd-2550x2550-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"SASHA STILES: THE NEVER-ENDING CYCLE OF TECHNOLOGICAL PROGRESS"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"aa7c30918ef8","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-05-02T12:50:03Z","_id":"11ba725e-1498-4e1a-abdd-947899246c1b","_rev":"gCOgyMqD3hiPHKLzDc6e6m","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T12:45:45Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0b0750b6779afdb947cba795767884e44459f91a-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"0212f0381a0e","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"f6a73b1463dd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"63816eb285020","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Only a year ago did the artist behind Niceaunties discover AI. Since then, she hasn't stopped creating the world with AI that is familiar to her from her childhood in Singapore: auntie culture. \"Her\" aunties are nice; they laugh, cook, travel, and enjoy life. In real life, aunties are strict; they are loving and caring, but they are not nice. Niceaunties is building the Auntieverse, a world full of images and videos that bring awareness to the struggles in life and are a reminder to be generous with the people in your life and yourself."},{"_key":"728560615cfd","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n\nOn the occasion of Gallery Weekend Berlin, EXPANDED.ART and Fellowship present Niceaunties first solo exhibition in Germany. In conversation with Anika Meier, Niceaunties discuss AI and storytelling, auntie culture and beauty treatments, and criticism of AI and how to deal with it. (Spoiler: don't deal with it!)"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ab2072a1de46","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"73817b7028f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"78865db0ab330","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Where does the name Niceaunties come from?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"efbf7e489ce8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af4b86c6271c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Niceaunties: Auntie culture is very common in Southeast Asia. I can only speak about it from my perspective, the way I experience it through my aunties, and the people I meet on the streets. So, there's the good side and the bad side. The good and normal side is, it's your own aunties, and they love you. But every time you see them, they will say something weird, such as, how much do you earn? How come you're still single? You look fat. Your face looks bigger. What did you eat?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f5eca5bc3759","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4bbfb6ec331e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It feels like an insult. But then they will feed you a lot of food and give you a lot of love. It’s contradictory. I think this has something to do with the way they were brought up. It's tough love, versus what they are. That's how they know to express love. Their parents treated them like that."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0829c21c4b38","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aedad4c3eafa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Other than your own auntie, anyone, any older woman, can also be called an auntie on the street. Anyone can be an auntie. Anyone who behaves like an auntie can be called one. Anyone who is old fashioned, rigid, and naggy. If a man does that, we can also call him an auntie."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a7d0d090ed09","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"18d27e2ba74e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It became an adjective to describe someone who doesn’t behave well. I also work in the design industry, where sometimes a customer demands that only beige and warm colors be used. We would say that the customer likes 'auntie things’. It's a negative characteristic, so to speak. Therefore, we want to avoid being called aunties, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"69f3acc49ccb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntiedote: Aioli Times, AI Video, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6a0deb49fc5ae0a03b4cad83079f03b08f5081fb-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6a0deb49fc5ae0a03b4cad83079f03b08f5081fb-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"212aa1249e46","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"972c9ca33535","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aca777007bf10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Niceaunties is your pseudonym as an artist, but it’s also a whole universe you are creating."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dd93775e2ab8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"967d3e5b23fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: When I came across AI, I felt that I could best express myself by reflecting my culture, my environment, and where I come from. I shared auntie culture, but in a lighthearted way, to highlight the joyful side of auntie life rather than the negative side. I wanted to challenge the way people think about aunties."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f6e6c1c53494","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c5c9745ed624","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ac1e92f70420","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: This is why it's Niceaunties?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"14056de20b90","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e21c3b8a38950","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Yes, that's an oxymoron. 'You're a nice auntie, aren't you?'"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f50c5af20bc1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f0bbeace4073","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"92893d7c43c90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I imagine it's similar in many cultures. For example, when visiting our grandparents or aunties, they like to comment, 'Oh, you're still single?' That seems to be a common occurrence. I see. It resembles the way some white old men in our culture behave, for example, as well as people trying to lecture others about their way of living; it seems a bit old-fashioned to me."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f219b4ef54a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"11ba87430ee00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Yes, we are also familiar with this in our culture, the so-called uncle culture. Older men, usually cab drivers, who sit around in hot Singapore with their shirts rolled up and collectively trash-talk about society and the government. They sit there with their bellies exposed; they just don't care."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c3acdb38295e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"94e2d32e1db8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8b82d34e9b10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Could uncle culture possibly be your next project? I notice that there are hardly any male protagonists in your artwork."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"01ce6c0a6669","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c6e1b9ebc65a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: True, they rarely appear. I interacted mostly with the women in my family while growing up and wanted to reflect their influence in my art. Uncles are very interesting too, I am sure, but I just do not understand them enough to create meaningful, layered artwork."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"76fbaa5c8d8d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntiedote: Auntique Institute Is Hairing (Hiring), 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f675a9552d09ff637b15d7f1020a7c8d6d3d6b34-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f675a9552d09ff637b15d7f1020a7c8d6d3d6b34-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"ad0f1673bc7a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4030872870c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"14e80b2c6e230","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’re an architect. Is that how you came across AI initially? What was your first introduction to AI before beginning to work on Niceaunties?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2805d9c4ced2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dfdfd29207f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: I discovered some interesting architecture pictures on Instagram and was immediately impressed. I couldn't help but wonder how these pictures were created, especially in such a short space of time. Many of these illustrations would take a long time to sketch out, so several other people in the comments wondered what we were missing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"544525a7fd6c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"18e61747348c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I then stumbled across the hashtag Midjourney, but having never heard of it before, I did some research and discovered it was an AI. So, of course, I immediately wanted to try it out and found a program I could use. At first, I simply entered a few keywords and waited for what would happen, but I haven't stopped since that day."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"315f6a4dfcdb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"984646c362ab0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In architecture, creating and drawing takes a lot of time; you work in a large team, and you are bound by what the client has in mind. But here, working with AI, it's just me, which gives me a liberated feeling. Whatever I imagine can become instant reality. Being able to create anything is a powerful feeling. It’s freedom. Mind-blowing, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ee13d28d147d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1f2fb66076b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb67daaf15bb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I feel the same as a writer. I can suddenly create images based on texts I write."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f42876ca10a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c38dbe658dba","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"You work with an AI tool to portray yourself, your culture, and your upbringing. How did you start creating the Auntieverse?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4c54c736d538","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d96760091c540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Yes, originally, I just wanted to give it a try, as I had no experience at all. Then in June, I was creating videos every day, playing with this technology, testing the limits. Everything was new, so I thought to myself, 'Whatever, I'll give it a go.'"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a3eca3caedd2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2538b1860d2c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In August, I received a message from Alejandro from Fellowship inviting me to take part in the DAILY project by publishing my videos as part of it. I accepted and became part of the project from day one. At that time, I had already created many of my auntie videos and pictures; some of the videos are included in this collection. However, a lot of new material was added, as Alejandro suggested expanding the project to 1000 images, which became the AUNTIEVERSE exhibition in February 2024. When I looked back on the year, in addition to the new materials, I rediscovered chapters from the very early days, my days with Midjourney."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4ab24f92fc37","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntieverse: Chapter No. 2, Spa Menu #0104, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4b2f218effb2134d3987c0eb27804a2638d38d1f-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4b2f218effb2134d3987c0eb27804a2638d38d1f-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"e9e6db80cfc2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8d0d18cf58e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e14b6a6b7dc90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: It all started on Instagram for you. How have the aunties been received since you started sharing your stories?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fb703082f943","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb48154c00d50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: With joy! Many people ask how I did it. There used to be a time when everyone shared their AI prompts, and I was also very open about the various possibilities.\n\nAlso, in July 2023, for International Aunties Day, I invited everyone to participate in an online event. We basically held an Instagram Auntie Party, and more than 50 artists took part, sending in 600 artworks in total. It was an Instagram auntie party!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f42b8a27fed1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e0435c04ae8d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98e8555e7d3c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: That’s also my experience when we do AI exhibitions at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin. The first question is always: How was it created? Why do you think that’s the first question?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a03197702ec9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fd6a31159ca30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: I am sure it is due to the strange and surreal nature of the images that look like a mix of photography, painting, and dreams. AI images generally look digital, yet they are familiar and uncanny at the same time. You kind of know at the back of your mind that they were not made using traditional mediums."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8819ff10d3b0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6ca6896ef5eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"806658bdd7ab0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How has your project been received by your family? Have you shared it with them? How do your aunties feel about it?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0889db4cf649","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fd4f4be74cc50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Yes, I did show it to them. My aunties didn't really understand it. Some people on Facebook asked where I found the models for my photographs and wondered if I took photos of my own aunties."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cbc08c8ad5b6","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntieverse: Chapter No. 5, Auntiesocial #0477, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b961d2dcfc7ca9548754e3691cf9ce0eec285ecd-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b961d2dcfc7ca9548754e3691cf9ce0eec285ecd-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"f2a9ad1c5c7a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a19012ca807b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c2bb27ea7840","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In addition to your solo show here with us in collaboration with Fellowship on the occasion of Gallery Weekend Berlin, you're also a part of the AI exhibition at HOFA Gallery in London with, among others, Kevin Abosch, Sougwen Chung, Crosslucid, and Jennifer & Kevin McCoy. When HOFA shared the news of the exhibition online, some angry comments popped up about it. Do you have the same experience on Instagram? How do you react to criticism?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"47a671e0d756","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dba4dba4cde00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: I've had the same experience over the past year. In the beginning, between January and July, we were a small AI community, and everyone was friendly and supportive. Then one of the videos went viral, and lots of new people came to my profile who actually had nothing to do with AI. The little bubble of my private community burst, and suddenly I received a lot of negative comments, some of which contained real threats. For example, they wanted to know where I lived so they could ‘nuke’ my home. Most people assumed I took drugs or magic mushrooms. And all because I create art with AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bbf4f64047df","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb86418836760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"How did I react to them? I didn’t. I don't engage. There's no way of winning someone over like that. There is no end to it. There are a lot of them. When I saw the responses to the announcement by HOFA, I thought, 'Wow, they're still going on. It's still happening.'"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6cf46a7199ab","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"386a97269788","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"381d05f363810","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What do you think is the root of these negative comments?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ea8ae7c46912","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"61668b6ca35b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Probably fear—fear of change? I mean, like I said, if they had tried it themselves or were open enough to try it, they might like it. They could at least give it a try."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4548a0f8cfe8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntiedote: Aioli Times, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-023cca6bc7b6469393039dd67328aacad1b5bb16-4000x2248-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-023cca6bc7b6469393039dd67328aacad1b5bb16-4000x2248-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"996da00dcead","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1051d8eec397","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"078ec57d0f850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: A collector, also an architect, visited our first AI exhibition at the gallery about a year ago. We started talking, among other things, about Midjourney, which he also uses. He was accompanied the next day to the exhibition by his mother, who, despite her advanced age, also uses Midjourney and created a really cute picture story about squirrels in Venice. It looked like a children’s book."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b38f140fc568","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c281df3ed7090","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: You cannot really dispute the fact that the ability to be able to express yourself creatively is a very joyful process. That's everyone's right. A lot of these people are very young teenagers who comment online. They're just repeating what they heard, creating a fear of the future. Like everyone's saying, 'AI is going to take away our jobs. There is no job security for you; you're not needed.'"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"659c5297cac6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd4eda5c37dd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These are really frightening thoughts. They need someone to just take them aside and discuss the whole situation with them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"86f139baccb5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"98032a060d06","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3156016ba95e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You've also just co-curated an exhibition with Fellowship called POST-PHOTOGRAPHIC PERSPECTIVES III: TAMING THE MACHINE. Looking at the works of other artists using AI, what do you think is good AI art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"82c4e3c66051","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"11ff3ebc61f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Art is art. Naturally, it should contain something that draws people in. Since I now have a good understanding of AI tools, I also pay attention to the way they are used to create art. Primarily, it's always about the artist, their unique perspective, and how they use AI to bring us closer to their point of view. Anyone can use prompts and AI; the important thing is the ideas behind the art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"09d02357e18c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"15939da8e420","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f3187216e2c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you think it should also be a critical engagement with technology?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"20f9fc6058f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c069be37f0f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: It depends on the artist as well as the art and what they're trying to say. Some artists are only interested in the technology itself, for example, when they use the tools to create graphic patterns. But many other artists use technology as a tool to tell a story, like Hrant Khachatryan, whom I curated for PPP3. He used AI in PPP 3 to portray his fear of going to sleep and of dreaming as he encounters horrifying figures in dream states. Looking at his artwork, I can empathise, feel his fear, and see the elements that symbolically show the different layers of meaning."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ffe279120f48","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"22b57bdf9f130","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I asked him if he would like to use a magnifier to make the faces of his characters sharper, but he refused. With Midjourney version 6, or with upscalers like Magnific, it is possible to depict people very realistically, but he prefers to use one of the earlier versions in order to be able to correctly portray his dreams, in which his characters have unsharp faces. So it is the intention that matters, not the AI that was used, because AI could do almost anything at this point."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"62c0c1ba5a71","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bf382c7e9240","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0845cf032a100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You mentioned that storytelling and narratives play very important roles in your work. As a curator, this is something I see on a daily basis with many artists. It's also something I recognize for myself, as I am actually an author and use words to tell stories. Suddenly, I have the opportunity to visualize the images in my head and make them a reality. Some people say that a picture is worth a thousand words, and more and more artists are using AI to depict their ideas visually. Do you think that's what we're going to see more of in the future?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3a23a9b7d3ba","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1e0e8241dd6c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: AI definitely pushes the boundaries for an artist to tell more elaborate, longer stories, maybe even a movie. However, ultimately, it depends on what the artist wants, of course. Some of them prefer to create more graphic artwork, like beautiful diagrams, shapes, forms, and stencils. And that's fine; there is no right or wrong! You have to decide for yourself how you want to express yourself, and sometimes a story develops and you suddenly have ten chapters."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c23b15e322b9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2c5c43563e6b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05a9f2020d160","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you approach working on "},{"_key":"92f7261d1188","_type":"span","marks":["strong","ed064b8d943c"],"text":"AUNTIEVERSE"},{"_key":"de0e50de56e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"ed064b8d943c","_type":"link","href":"https://opensea.io/collection/auntieverse-by-niceaunties"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"14f2048f682e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed0efa9068300","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Alejandro from Fellowship suggested the 1000-image release of AUNTIEVERSE. He recommended that I approach this drop like a book. Many of the chapters already existed—videos of stories about NASA or TESLA, for example. I had already spent the previous year working on these, so the next step was to create images for these chapters to fill in the gaps."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2be804f8c347","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntieverse: Chapter No. 7, Tesla #0670, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0be97b22408a0d02d2c9285aee24d13016b48482-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0be97b22408a0d02d2c9285aee24d13016b48482-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"238258e8db17","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"40892120cf86","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4a969c291720","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you feel under pressure now that many people follow your work and have certain expectations?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"583106a231b5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e4f75f681110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: I don't spend time thinking about that. I have to focus on the aspects that I can influence, as I can't control how people think, whether they think it's good or bad. So I concentrate on my art, connecting to what's happening around me, and getting inspired. Otherwise, I can't feel the fullness of the joy I feel when I create. If I was constantly thinking about how my work would be received at the end, it would distract me too much. It's counterproductive."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"928767779973","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aee7ffad2d86","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06d8a5e0ede20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I understand that. It must sometimes be difficult for artists to cope, given that they are sometimes very close to criticism, right?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b1c681c45d77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e3eabfa3af2f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: I try my best not to let that get to me, especially when the criticisms are not constructive. Personally, I have had the experience of very supportive collectors, for which I am very grateful. I was pleasantly surprised to find so many people who share my work every day or post the pieces they collect. Out of enthusiasm for my work, they are doing their part to further my career, which makes me feel like I'm part of a big team, a community."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fc072bfc161c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntiedote: Auntique Hair Spray, AI Video, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-414d6b8c0b151bdb4eb3c5e519d7e79d5053d1ee-6502x3657-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-414d6b8c0b151bdb4eb3c5e519d7e79d5053d1ee-6502x3657-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"5a34e3485dc6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a08513ebcc47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e1987e9656a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: It's interesting that you discovered AI, started working with it, and only when Alejandro approached you and offered you the opportunity did you realize that you could also sell your works as NFTs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ab2b13d6b8f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d0edcd751300","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"It is important for artists in the NFT space to learn that you can create your own work without it being directly judged for its cultural or monetary value. When you initially created your works, it also had no such ulterior motive?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fda959166cfd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ef2164bb46a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA:Of course, there is this conflict between wanting to be creative and also wanting to earn a living. But if you already focus on making money off your work during creative processes, it sort of corrupts the whole process. Alejandro often told me to experiment freely in my art without the aim of selling the work at the end."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af7aaed16751","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b925aa4457ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ultimately, the market decides the value of a piece of art. I don't set the prices; I don't want to worry about it either; I just concentrate on my story, and that's already enough to do."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c86e8050b5b7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d81eb25e99b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0bb095ec8050","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You mentioned that you keep track of new technologies coming onto the market. How is that for you as an artist? Do you feel like you have to constantly pay attention and always use the latest tools to not fall behind?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"03680c8a71f3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28ad79235fd50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: No, not really. I intend to further develop my storytelling, how I can tell a story in the best possible way, and how new tools can help implement what was not technically possible with previous tools. When it comes to AI technology, which is already being used in this way, I only use the simplest tools that are accessible to everyone. The entry barrier is very low."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3c38db0c7d74","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d0138207ece20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When it comes to Sora, I'm already excited. As soon as it's released, I'll be able to create longer video sequences. With Runway, only four seconds are currently possible; extending it beyond four seconds often creates distorted results. I try not to be a captive of ever-changing technology and therefore only pay attention to the tools I can use to achieve new outcomes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"08840340fc49","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b4324c75c3dd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f9c0e1427f3a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: It's like using a smartphone and the camera. This resembles the time when people started taking photos with their smartphone cameras. Everyone could do this, so photography became a form of communication. Pictures can be sent as postcards via messenger apps, replacing the written word. \n\nWith AI, we are now able to return to the written word and create images from it with the help of AI. Only by using our imagination can we achieve the next level of image creation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b1af7007ccd5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a15ebae021c50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Yes, this is so interesting. I think in English, Mandarin, and sometimes the Chinese dialect. Using language as a form of creative communication has kind of rewired my brain. I found myself extending language puns and word play into my creative work, which probably come through a lot less using other mediums."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"df277095b3bf","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntiedote: Auntique Hair Support, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3e7589e9cbc477c8aa17ebf6f814262bde557c8a-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3e7589e9cbc477c8aa17ebf6f814262bde557c8a-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"55c09403b88e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1c0fc4ff22a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9db0fecb3ed90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you start with stills and then create the videos?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8ce155cab866","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"40ac40a7e7780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: I always start with creating still images. Once I know exactly what I want to express, I animate it to convey these strong feelings. Emotions are the basis of my decision to animate still images."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e6d1c9caf829","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"38c30070e949","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6e666ee900350","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And do you feel that there is a difference when people look at the animated works, the videos, and the stills? Does it feel different even when you look at it?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0315c44c88a4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ec2d813fd820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: With a still image, you can take as much time as you need to look at it and absorb all the details. In a video, everything is in motion—a compilation of several moving elements. It's about the big picture, not about the details."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c20beed35be4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f2017c3d95190","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Still, you need to capture the mood correctly, so I always start with a still image versus pure text prompts to video. If you use these AI tools with written prompts, they usually make very generic images. To work around this, my preferred option is to use another program to first create the image as I envision it and then use Runwayml Brush to animate parts of it. I get much more vibrant results that way."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1c54c3b3e48d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a3982d4cfd4b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I enjoy the whole creative process. I follow my intuition, and as long as it tells me to keep going, I seize the moment and work until I am satisfied with the result. I try to make each image as interesting as possible, for example, with small hidden objects and layers of cultural meaning. This allows people to discover something new every time they look at it, as it repeats like an animated GIF."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c5602d3923b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntiedote: Auntie's Spring Skin, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-566d253f47ba6a3ea87a3cf3cb711d6414aafb3d-3943x2218-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-566d253f47ba6a3ea87a3cf3cb711d6414aafb3d-3943x2218-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"7c7da6d0e0a1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"42dc9f216b48","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"94046699acbd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you feel others who grew up in your culture might see things differently from your story?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"000d72ba4a0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1f1581aeac3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Some aspects are very iconic, like the big hair. Where they don't have a lot of hair on their heads, they puff it up to hide that fact. Also, the use of hairspray is quite an auntie behavior."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6553309c6386","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d9bbbf7b27270","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Among my episodes is a video called AUNTIE SPECIALTIES about cooking ingredients typically used by aunties. This includes garlic, for example, but also herbal chicken, onion, and ginger. Typical Asian cuisine, as I'm sure you know it too. My mother, for instance, seasons every meal with minced garlic, which is typically found in every Asian meal. So there's always a garlic smell in the air. It's kind of disgusting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bed019c9f6d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b299a6362d60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Are you familiar with Korean glass skin? For those who don't know: Glass skin is flawless skin that is poreless and translucent. It's almost baby-like; the skin is at its healthiest. It's very shiny and glossy. Imagine if aunties swallowed pills and suddenly plants started growing inside them, then emerging from their pores, renewing their derma layers and pores from within."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0c29a86ec360","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"868d87dc77340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This became the video SPRING SKIN, which is a spinoff story of Auntie’s Spa, a chapter of the AUNTIEVERSE. It consists of scenes of beauty treatments and procedures offered by Auntie’s spa to customers, which are usually quite tortuous and painful."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ddf91843c1e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"029c51e3695c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I intended to depict the more serious aspects of spa and beauty treatments, including the pain that women endure. Have you ever come across Chinese facial acupuncture?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"295f90c96288","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d8d190ccd800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I tried it out of curiosity; the acupuncture needles literally got ejected into my face from a device that looked and sounded like a mini stapler gun. A friend of mine went through it and said it wasn't painful, but it actually was. The stapler also made a terrible noise; I felt my face being stapled. It was horrifying."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4dbf48e9a27d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"464ee6a4acba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Nevertheless, quite a few people do it; it obviously does something for them, and maybe it makes them feel better. I don't know, because in order to see actual improvements, they need to have these procedures done for many years and have them integrated into their lifestyles. Otherwise, it would just end up being a waste of money, so you have to keep doing it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"842de2fd038c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a7783cfcffe0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08d6cbd3929b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Would you undergo these procedures for the next ten years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"01609a410016","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dba6169660360","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: No, no. It's too scary. I just wanted to try it for fun."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"27a60b850343","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Niceaunties, Auntieverse: Chapter No. 2, Spa Menu #0101, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ab3d82e495505b51059481ca554b168522eac5f7-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ab3d82e495505b51059481ca554b168522eac5f7-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"465fac1d46e3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"583dd8a20a4f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e9baa280d2140","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you have a message to share to address this issue?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7ca5a009ded6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b7b6ff2b4fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NA: Everyone needs to think about why they do beauty treatments. I don't want to imply that it's good or bad; everyone has to decide for themselves. My art is simply an expression of my experiences."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9ae0d804eff3","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"fb6b9f7370e6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"1d13f493-0456-4295-98e8-997568ea7a14","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"c8b62396299f","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"45359e27a1bf","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-520696070410","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"79c05857ebe9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-9632697581834","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"1e2fd6ec78bf","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"d58a581fa2c6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"753eee28-d78d-4e8c-91ce-8f7c5489cf3f","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"ea3aea2dfabb","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e640ffbe-945a-4cd5-bdd3-b9f40df63c89","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b72f7c9ea125","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-05-02T12:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"On the occasion of Gallery Weekend Berlin, EXPANDED.ART and Fellowship present Niceaunties first solo exhibition in Germany. In conversation with Anika Meier, Niceaunties discuss AI and storytelling, auntie culture and beauty treatments, and criticism of AI and how to deal with it. (Spoiler: don't deal with it!)","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0b0750b6779afdb947cba795767884e44459f91a-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"interview-niceaunties-auntiedote"},"store":null,"subtitle":"AI AND STORYTELLING","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0b0750b6779afdb947cba795767884e44459f91a-3640x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"NICEAUNTIES: \"ANYONE CAN BE AN AUNTIE\""},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"504fbe4969c3","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-11-01T02:31:17Z","_id":"6ee74bc2-306c-42c8-ae67-4e332d979943","_rev":"Dsvmdo48qp4ou0OJOUAEly","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T13:58:39Z","author":"Margaret Murphy","category":"essay","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-def99fe875919b996667c3ba38fb9d42c10701b8-1344x896-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"99f85935b3a2","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"d8e3831607fd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"31199627148d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"\"In some ways, photographing while driving is easier than creating images with AI\", says LA-based artist Margaret Murphy. She remembers her first road trip, which has changed her life in the same way that finding AI as an artistic tool has changed her life as an artist. In this essay, Murphy reflects on the history of the road trip in photography and declares its death while bringing it back to life while working with AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1b3058e3627f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c4c35f17987c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"30 October 2023"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"eb01d9ce1c0b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5de34db988110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2016, I took my first of many road trips—I moved from Washington, DC, to Los Angeles, California. I packed only the necessities into my 2008 silver Toyota Prius and followed a northern-to-southwestern route I’d eagerly researched and planned ahead of time. It was early September, and I planned to be in LA by early October to move into an apartment with roommates that I’d met on Facebook. I had no fear, only excitement. I would stop in cities like Nashville and St. Louis, where I would visit long-distance friends, and stay with family in Iowa and Denver. More than getting to reconnect with loved ones along the way, I was brimming with excitement about photographing the journey. There was nothing more thrilling to me as a young photographer than exploring the country state by state with my cameras as copilots in the passenger seat."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ca762496e17a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Margaret Murphy, Road Trip, Forest (Tennessee), 2016.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f723339a394d9e68dfcd720083f82b25907131dd-1050x700-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f723339a394d9e68dfcd720083f82b25907131dd-1050x700-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"815979f28cd5","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"fde972188e63","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3182c594ddfd","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was excited by the seminal photographic experience this trip offered. As a photography student at SUNY Purchase from 2009 to 2013, I learned about the influence of the road trip on the history of the medium. In the mid-twentieth century, the development of the personal camera, commercialization, funding for national infrastructure, and the rise of the automobile resulted in the concept of the road trip. In my photo history course in undergrad, I remember gazing mesmerized at the projector being shown the black and white work of AMERICAN PHOTOGRAPHS by Walker Evans and THE AMERICANS by Robert Frank from the 1930s and 1950s, and the color photographs in UNCOMMON PLACES by Stephen Shore and WILLIAM EGGELSTON’S GUIDE, both artists who were solo exhibited at MoMA in 1971 and 1976, respectively. The photographers from this near-half century were innovative in the way they used the camera, saw the world around them, and created impactful art from every-day scenes. They took pictures of signage, people at work, and the culture that was changing at a speed that felt faster than they could load a roll of film—none of it was considered art before then—in an artistic and considered way. Even as I studied their works in the 2010s, it was hard to grasp how shocking and original these works were to the culture they were created in. I was living in the future of images, thanks to the development of the internet and technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc891625d8e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7099b39792ab","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I shot 15 rolls of color film with my medium-format camera and easily four times as many digital pictures over the course of five weeks on my road trip to Los Angeles. Each image was a visual discovery: I was invigorated by making a sudden U-turn to pull off at an exit to photograph a motel with a wooden American flag hanging on the side of a motel in Wyoming, putting my hazards on in front of someone’s driveway to quickly capture the overgrowth of wild ivy in rural Tennessee, deciding to go to Las Vegas a day early to walk the city with my camera, or taking an unplanned detour to a roadside attraction like the Corn Palace in South Dakota, and instead discovering a museum dedicated to Christianity and the Bible. There was improvisational humor in these images and in the experiences of making them. Capturing something I’d never before seen was exhilarating with every push of the shutter."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"853e92d3151b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Margaret Murphy, Road Trip, Twin Horses (Wyoming), 2016.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-055940e25b7d7e6f4bb39c4b09d208298fedcb7d-1200x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-055940e25b7d7e6f4bb39c4b09d208298fedcb7d-1200x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"b123f8a3fe47","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"e51094f3afc3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d7d5dc87ed37","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"By the time I settled in LA, I was eager to look through my files and negatives. I was proud of them. They felt significant—and they were, but not as groundbreaking photographs. They were records of an important part of my life: moving alone across the country at 25."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c3cd8328059b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e10618f6c9c3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When showing some of these pictures in my first graduate critique, I had the somewhat disappointing revelation that my photographs were not about anything. Yes, they were documents of my personal journey across the country, and they were beautifully composed, captured, and printed. But they had been seen before. It was revealed to me that the photographic road trip was dead."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c234c8f57e40","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"82a8488b07a4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I would argue that this is still true, despite the many photographers who continue to make pictures in the style of these mid-century pioneers. There’s by no means anything wrong with capturing a journey by car as an artist—in fact, I strongly believe every photographer should. But to expect those photographs to have the cultural impact of someone like Robert Frank is naive."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7c2b733f49de","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d321e56dd36","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The feedback I received in that critique was crucial to my development as an artist; above all, it was important to find my own voice and style. To have been influenced is to be expected, but what was I contributing to the greater context of photography and contemporary art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d35465a9002f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Margaret Murphy, Road Trip, Family Video (Iowa), 2016.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4e4b85eee840e6c936a109b918960eea5a8f0fbb-1200x857-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4e4b85eee840e6c936a109b918960eea5a8f0fbb-1200x857-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"8e381fea06c9","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"f703eafb26be","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cdaf8f871e5a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"After my road trip, Los Angeles itself was an inspiration. Enthusiastic to join the ranks of photographers who had captured California before me, I devoured more influences—Ed Ruscha’s EVERY BUILDING ON THE SUNSET STRIP, Ron Jude’s LAGO, Gregory Halpern’s ZZYZX, among others. The rush of capturing something I was seeing for the first time in a new place was addicting, and I was prolific even after my road trip, but this time with my iPhone. Photographer Chase Jarvis once said, “The best camera you can own is the one you have with you,” and as camera phone technology improved, my ability to constantly take pictures progressed alongside."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ee1e8b400291","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f38242ea79e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I carried ideas of accessibility, meaningful concepts, and embracing technology through my MFA in Photography at the University of Hartford’s limited residency program, encouraged by guest lecturers and my teachers, artists, and writers like Irina Rozovsky, Wiebke Loeper, Michael Schaefer, Michael Famighetti, and Joerg Colberg. This primed me perfectly for my journey into NFTs and Web3. Not long after, in the summer of 2022, I would discover the tool that would change my entire identity as an artist."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f6ae91f53c7f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f936163726de","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was introduced to the text-to-image artificial intelligence software, Midjourney. Intimidated by anything to do with coding, this was the entry point I needed to begin playing around with AI. And just like my mobile camera, I could have it with me everywhere via the Discord app."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fc3d4bcc5ebd","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Margaret Murphy, RE: ROAD TRIP, Dining Car, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5d72ad28bca4f72d8488fe7258ff666b3e50111b-1344x896-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5d72ad28bca4f72d8488fe7258ff666b3e50111b-1344x896-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"93ec1fdd57fb","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"15e27212457f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"33bb8c6a5475","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Project-wise, my passion for cultural commentary through conceptual art felt right at home, bolstered by this brand new technology. The element of chance, thanks primarily to the nature of AI generation without explicit knowledge of the data sets Midjourney is trained on, felt like the unexpected photographic encounters of my road trips, often impossible to recreate. The thrill of an image revealing itself was familiar, and I embraced it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0f19308336d7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"858a02c2943a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"While I have yet to take a road trip since I began working with AI, I have made various series of images with Midjourney. I am able to make hundreds of images with simple, user-friendly software in days rather than weeks or months with a camera. Photography is expensive. Film, processing, scanning—what I spend on my Midjourney subscription in a year would not even cover those costs. Many folks may ask me why I do not train an AI on my own images. For me, it’s about the element of the unexpected that is akin to photographing on the road. Stephen Shore, while making UNCOMMON PLACES, brought a point-and-shoot camera with him. He wanted the photographs to feel like pictures taken by tourists, taken by anyone, contributing conceptually to the project (which would later be exhibited at the Museum of Modern Art). Like Shore, I choose my tools carefully, considering the relationship between the way the work is made and its meaning. I have never trained my own AI because all outputs would be predetermined based on the training data; like a road trip, I prefer to encounter a visual scene that I could have in no way expected."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f02333c5dbfe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05079bf15710","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In some ways, photographing while driving is easier than creating images with AI. Pictures present themselves to you as you cruise along the asphalt or slowly wander through side alleys on a walk to stretch your legs. It’s hard not to take a photograph. Creating scenes of a road trip with AI is challenging. It’s not enough to simply “imagine/” what you want Midjourney to make; you have to consider the way you want to see it. What’s the time of day? The location? Are there people? What season? Or perhaps, even more challenging but possibly more rewarding, you don’t know what you want to see, but you still need the AI to show it to you. That still involves you, the prompter, choosing a place to begin."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"86d5eca36dfb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Margaret Murphy, RE: ROAD TRIP, Travel Snacks, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a50023dbcaa0b292bc38dd993497f943092ec571-1344x896-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a50023dbcaa0b292bc38dd993497f943092ec571-1344x896-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"cd5167fc03da","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"269f0f511c23","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4193e6f6f39","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It's at these beginning points that I bring my experience of the road trip into my AI creations. I remember my time travelling alone as a woman artist and bring these memories as the seeds that grow into my AI-generated artworks. But I also appreciate the things AI shows me that I never get to see. The pictures I couldn’t pull over fast enough to take, or when I wasn’t in the driver’s seat, or I was too tired or needed to stick to the itinerary—AI allows me the chance to reunite with photographs I missed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bf5a3df657c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ca702ee260e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"With AI, I can imagine what my road trip may have looked like in the 1970s along Shore or Eggelston in the same areas that I’ve trekked through in my 2008 pilgrimage. David Campany mentions in his essay from THE OPEN ROAD: PHOTOGRAPHY AND THE AMERICAN ROAD TRIP that “one of the major attractions of the American road trip has become the fantasy of time travel,” which is all the more accessible through text-to-image AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2436caa1f6a3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f32bcff2669","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I don’t believe that AI will replace the experience of a road trip. I hope people still take their cameras with them to commemorate such a special kind of experience. A computer cannot replicate a life-altering journey of independence, foster connections with friends in new cities, or take in the natural beauty of the world. I’ve had these experiences and will always be grateful for them. But what AI can offer and has offered me is a different kind of freedom and enrichment as an artist. The way I feel about creating images with AI is how I felt when I first watched a black-and-white darkroom print reveal in a developer bath at 14 years old. But instead of something I saw in the world, it’s something I saw in my mind's eye."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"967b37b20390","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0dbf34e04c0a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This series, RE: ROAD TRIP, is informed by the history of art that I am so passionate about, my love of technology as self-expression, and the experiences I’ve had as a young artist living her life. I think that’s what every road trip project should strive for, camera or computer-made."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0b363170fdd8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Margaret Murphy, RE: ROAD TRIP, Outdoor Seating, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e251b8ac56c8b0d73182109b4dcc3d240e3777ab-1344x896-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e251b8ac56c8b0d73182109b4dcc3d240e3777ab-1344x896-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"39a6059bb001","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"b6e24063988d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"18e62282-dbd7-4923-a7a8-36967a8b1615","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"fae5da38d1ee","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"481a7042350f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-525038616842","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"2af5b44a203e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-505726370058","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"69ac7e3868e6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8217638732042","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"a69213cce3db","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"1dbcb3a79058","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"70907e3f-52a1-4db6-ab3e-14ec811e4642","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"3967f536f302","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"7ccae0dff44a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a6b9b246-a1cb-4c7e-b534-20062cc1cd7a","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"6d16d76fc91e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a7438850-749c-4a96-a9ea-943eff8c0466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b827feaea681","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"95ebe0ec-a838-403e-9ee5-1356cee38074","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"58a83cb28f48","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bb654090-dba4-4064-8712-ded79ddd97cd","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"bbcc103c9b71","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-10-31T02:30:00.000Z","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"margaret-murphy-re-romanticizing-the-road-trip"},"store":null,"subtitle":"ON POST-PHOTOGRAPHY","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-def99fe875919b996667c3ba38fb9d42c10701b8-1344x896-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"MARGARET MURPHY: RE-ROMANTICIZING THE ROAD TRIP"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"cd7e3b68c383","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-06-20T00:43:18Z","_id":"467f6465-6da7-4889-a05e-988cc8ab3484","_rev":"Dsvmdo48qp4ou0OJOUdHAE","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T15:11:03Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8dffecf62cd7bfa6704731e845a95528bd74ae34-1920x1384-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"ebf16ad11930","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"7a53ddbce90f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06180c4f785d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Boris Eldagsen is the artist who made headlines by turning down the prestigious Sony Photography World Award in 2023. In a world where AI sparks debates between haters and worshippers, Eldagsen offers a unique perspective that transcends the binary narrative. Rejecting the notion that AI is solely a threat to creativity, Eldagsen emphasizes the importance of human agency and expertise in harnessing AI as a tool for artistic expression. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"49e9d80a92bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c4779f6a56b80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Eldagsen challenges the notion that AI is the natural progression of photography. For him, photography is about capturing light and engaging with the external world, while promptography delves inward, exploring the depths of creativity in a digital realm. Boris Eldagsen suggests using the term \"promptography\" to differentiate between traditional photographs and AI-generated images. He believes that promptography expands beyond traditional photography, encompassing a variety of visual forms such as drawing, painting, and 3D graphics. According to him, promptography can also include text, moving images, and sound. Eldagsen emphasizes that the creative process always begins with a prompt."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"29d18f48b8d4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"649e30217850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Eldagsen discusses the past and future of photography, the terms post-photography and \"promptography\" and why he refused to accept the Sony Photography World Award."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dd8dfb80dfca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"371d71dc9cf1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8395fc562bfa","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cc7948319155","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0dc34281b6510","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Boris, they say that in art, it is important to be able to summarize a work in one sentence, like Andy Warhol known for the soup cans, or Manet known for the water lilies. What is it like to be known internationally as the artist who turned down the Sony World Photography Award?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4799cc208111","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ebb7c0fd5fc90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Boris Eldagsen: Good, because it means that I have thought ahead and seized an opportunity to initiate a worldwide discussion that was overdue for photography, art, and society at a time of historical upheaval and technical disruption. In retrospect, this will have greater social significance than painted water lilies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"23973dc7e69d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen with his artwork PSEUDOMNESIA | The Electrician, promptography, 2023. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-baba11fc1a5046271acddc09e673f0936449098b-3024x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-baba11fc1a5046271acddc09e673f0936449098b-3024x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"991cdb0a27a0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9dda1e9ebaee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed63e56dad130","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Impressionism and NFTs are often compared in terms of their impact on the history of art. With AI, art might just be a niche that is also influenced by this new technology. Why do you believe this global conversation will have a greater societal impact than Monet's water lilies?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e083703c2c75","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f805cf3461fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: The water lilies have not led to a global discussion about the future of authentic photos and how we can still assure ourselves of facts in democracies. Any information we see on screens can be fake. Does this mean that we are drowning in “alternative facts” and can no longer even agree on a factual basis that we can discuss democratically?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0a121bbc5564","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7527acff0551","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c1000dbe267c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Which responses to your rejection of the prize and to this discussion surprised you the most?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"71297f652cdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"206b1620bd700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: None of the responses surprised me. Both the AI haters and the AI worshipers were predictable. I see myself as a realist who tries to make the advantages and disadvantages transparent. I love both photography and AI. Both are great tools for my artistic vision."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f8942f321fdc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, PSEUDOMNESIA | The Electrician, promptography, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7a2ad06200f5b7cdd00da6e0b34bc6c12e615f70-1124x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7a2ad06200f5b7cdd00da6e0b34bc6c12e615f70-1124x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"bd6d7c37ee42","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3b5e3b091446","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ff4eda31c5290","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is the most common argument from each side?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a76c96b30fae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9b19af7a195c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: Related to images and art: Haters think that AI is dumbing down the world; it is evil because it is not only unpredictable but also theft. It doesn’t require any skills, is not creative, and is soulless. Simultaneously, haters fear that AI is going to replace them, making creative jobs and artists superfluous. They overlook that it is a skill to work professionally with AI and set up creative workflows in which the human is the director, using his or her professional knowledge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f0089e4851d1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d8d9e10c78600","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AI worshippers think it is the democratization of art. They love that everybody, including AI itself, can now be an artist. However, their definition of art is very basic. Often, it just means \"pretty pictures\", for example, Kitsch. I am old enough to remember that the camera and computers also promised the democratization of art and that this utopia was also nonsense."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"130b3c462d80","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b199ceec714b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For me, art is an expression of the human condition. To achieve this, you need to delve within yourself, becoming conscious of the world inside you and how it interacts with the world around you. Not everybody is able or willing to undertake this journey. And AI? It desires nothing! It has no intention and no consciousness."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"00cafada14d7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"63e7ac627409","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1205467af3490","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I remember that Sascha Lobo, a German writer, blogger, and journalist, used to be the go-to person to explain the Internet back in the day. Now, you are the go-to person to explain AI. How do you explain AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"de52a0ed9c7e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8fda505cca440","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: AI is a knowledge booster. I work with my knowledge and experience. The stronger my background in image making is, and the more I know about the technical aspects of AI, the stronger my lead becomes. The collaboration has three steps: prompting, generating, and evaluating. The more informed the prompting and evaluation, the better the outcome."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"347473b73fe6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fe8fbafc1e330","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When collaborating with AI, my role as an artist changes: from being a solo singer to becoming a conductor. A conductor needs to make sense of the gigantic, anonymous choir that the training data represents."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"390cef31923e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, PSEUDOMNESIA III | The Clairvoyant, promptography, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-979c6680da1154b4ff43fbca92824f02a48fd2dd-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-979c6680da1154b4ff43fbca92824f02a48fd2dd-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"a04facc259fb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b86482405f24","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d4b22834e3050","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And how do you explain AI to someone who fears AI might take their jobs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"427ba73467ef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"025e0e3cba700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: Unfortunately, many jobs will disappear, especially those that are generic. Others will evolve: yesterday's professionals will become tomorrow's quality control. It is important to understand how AI works in order to actively participate in reshaping professions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d99b85fefb50","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f0c6af2a5c46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"90f65e152de10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Would you like there to be more conversation about the work you submitted to the Sony World Photography Award and the underlying issue that led you to submit that particular work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1901e4b2a4e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"016e9c5efcaf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: My rejection of the prize has indeed sparked the necessary discussion about the nature and future of photography, art, and human creativity, as well as the issue of disinformation. In the first few weeks following the rejection, I was the one still pointing out the new problems to many journalists, but soon new podcasts and journalist teams specializing in AI were emerging everywhere."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"48aea58ec2dd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ee97137025480","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Many people have asked me about the meaning and message of THE ELECTRICIAN I have always answered that the question \"What is the artist trying to tell us?\" is mundane. I do not aim to promote a political message through art, as many other contemporary artists do. I am not interested in addressing a specific political issue but rather in exploring the timeless human condition that underlies these contemporary problems. If I wanted to do that, I would write an editorial for a newspaper or attend a demonstration. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2327c7f00a60","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"059bcb4465c6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For me, a good work of art serves as a catalyst for an inward journey. The question that viewers of a work of art should ask themselves is: \"What thoughts, feelings, or memories does the work evoke in me? Am I drawn to it or repelled by it? Why?\" This is why I also reject any interpretation of my work. Providing interpretation would deny the viewer the opportunity to experience the work without bias. Instead, they would only seek visual confirmation of my words. Visual art should never be directly translatable into words; otherwise, its essence would be lost, and one could simply hang a text on the wall."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b7de5433a966","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4c067ea002e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b4c35ab00c820","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I am a writer and a curator; my job is to take care of the context when working with artists. I usually work with words, but with AI, suddenly, I am writing and getting images. This experience has led me to release two AI series myself: LOST FUTURES and TALE AS OLD AS TIME. It feels like the images complement my writing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1896431b89b5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01bf2884d20e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Do you remember when you first heard about artificial intelligence?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e5ccb6d42bcd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d63ba22c3eb90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I first encountered the term AI in the old sci-fi series I watched as a child, such as Star Trek and Battlestar Galactica. Science fiction was always filled with it. Sometimes AI was portrayed as a tool, and other times as an evil entity like HAL 9000 in Kubrick’s 2001: A SPACE ODYSSEY."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"55dcd240ab1e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7070d98dea5a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2014/15, I became aware that an AI called Deep Mind could generate images using AI. The AI was trained with GAN (Generative Adversarial Network), which consists of two components that improve each other. For example, one component acts as the producer, generating human faces, while the other serves as quality control, filtering out faces with too many eyes, ears, or noses. If one component becomes too dominant, the entire model collapses."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dcbbe3444219","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5d7c18c71680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For nearly a decade, I have been keeping an eye on the GAN scene, but I never worked with it myself. I wasn't a nerd who coded; I was a creative individual who captured peculiar images at night."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fbd191a50b8b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, BLIND LOOKING FOR A MIRROR | Me Me Me, promptography, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e77e6821982bcdba17ec6ecd9c3ef2cea13e843d-1680x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e77e6821982bcdba17ec6ecd9c3ef2cea13e843d-1680x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"536748444b50","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"881f8491bc90","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01ef5b3e75370","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you remember what you felt as a child?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2168b42a9204","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"89dfb70608f50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: As a child, I felt awe and anticipation that I would experience all of this. In 2001, I was 31 years old. I wasn't in a spaceship, but in a new economy startup, watching the news of September 11."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a7444d928dab","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5c84a19758bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a4fabed4dd570","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you realize that the rapid developments in artificial intelligence might have a dramatic impact on photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"403ca5080f72","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4ba445f3094c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: With the shift from GAN to the diffusion model in 2021, I foresaw a significant change on the horizon. Suddenly, one no longer needed to be a nerd to work with AI. Through mainstream platforms like DALL-E or Midjourney, one could achieve results that were becoming more and more photographic. My \"wow\" moment came in July 2022, and I was the first in Germany to deliver lectures on this topic (Photopia Messe Hamburg / September 2022) and offer workshops (starting in December 2022 with DGPh). "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e57050f79e70","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a093991b2921","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Following my presentation at Photopia, the audience, consisting of professional photographers and stock photo providers, was shocked by the potential impact that AI would have on their business."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fc4fdf545b90","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bc7c0124c6f0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"53d5135758e40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What was the trigger for the \"wow\" moment?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a32091be2b11","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fe398c698cb20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I was amazed that with text-prompting, I could work purely from my imagination. As a photographer who was never interested in a documentary approach, I had to transform what was in front of my lens into a timeless symbolic image. Now, I could do this without compromises. I could work like a painter and create images that looked photographic. These were images that I could have never captured through photography alone, without a movie set and film team."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"37e4e215ecc4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"851b17343721","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ee28af5385a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Have your fears come true?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b62fec3c506f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b42ac7a0d650","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I have never been afraid of AI. I have always described myself as an artist who has worked with photography, video, and installation. Now, I work with AI. I embrace AI because I see it as the tool I have always been waiting for without knowing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6757406ef12e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6fd5739b86360","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As an artist, AI is a liberation from material constraints. I can create images purely from my imagination. I utilize the knowledge and experience I have gained over 30 years in prompting and evaluating. It's cool and exciting. The last time I felt this way was at the beginning of my studies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"471f70a9aa09","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6755229279f00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, as a citizen of a democratic society, I see the gigantic potential of AI in spreading disinformation. That concerns me. For the past 1.5 years, I have been a member of the AI working group of the German Photo Council (the umbrella organization of over 30 professional photographer associations). We are in direct contact with Germany's picture editors to discuss what we can all do to ensure more transparency."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b8934d0dd036","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, TRAUMA PORN Pt. 2 | Feast, promptography, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8567aa4a5a2b9c4fa5613ae09095397cc53ab721-1920x1358-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8567aa4a5a2b9c4fa5613ae09095397cc53ab721-1920x1358-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"54a13216dde1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cf44b53f31d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"10991e79912d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain the strong rejection of artificial intelligence by photographers? The way I explain it is that it took a very long time for photography to be accepted as an artistic medium. Now that the time has finally come, the next new medium is knocking on the door, one that will revolutionize the world much like photography did."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"11b5cfe663c1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"47c7ffc7bab70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: It is not the photo artists who reject AI. I have had many curious colleagues in my workshops who hold professorships. It is the commercial photographers who rightly fear that they will become redundant. This is where the real issue lies. Any form of photography that is not documentary will be replaced by AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"addf19ac863e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"029852963681","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a98204942560","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you expect a rise in interest in photography? Perhaps simply because people might be bored of seeing surrealistic images and videos, for example?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"597294995c55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"592d2282a8ce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: The future of photography will be defined by AI. What will remain of photography is documentary photography. Only when authenticity is needed will we photograph. Everything else will be generated."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"716c9ed5afbe","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e05d567b00ae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"693b3b7768970","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Terms like post-photography and AI art are floating around. Why do you advocate for the term \"promptography\"?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b9bc550a6fbe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8eb3b1248cc70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: In 2022, many Instagram users used the hashtag #AIphotography. I think it's sloppy thinking to see AI as the logical development of a medium. Photography is done with light and requires going out into the world and usually interacting with what's in front of the camera. You experience ‘a’ world. The journey in promptography goes inward. I can generate AI images in a dark basement; all I need is power, WiFi, a laptop, or a smartphone. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af72b342d1d0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0fd75d5f407f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I need to interact with myself. To distinguish between photographs and AI-generated images, it is helpful to have a new term. I prefer \"promptography\" because it goes beyond the photo bubble. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"89aa2eb60989","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3b8ca2f11e4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Promptography\" can look like photography but also like drawing, painting, and 3D graphics. Promptography can be text, moving images, or sound. The creative workflow always starts with a prompt."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bdf84c46dd7c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e2959decddb5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8c85301b84e70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The term \"post-photography\" has a long history. Would you also reject \"post-photography\" as an umbrella term?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7b266ed21fd9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"28f66873fd400","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: If you refer to Fontcuberta’s THE MANIFESTO-DECALOGUE OF POST-PHOTOGRAPHY, this is more of a media-theoretical description of the changing uses and tasks of photography. He is not talking about photography as art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7bcf1212e3d4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6da159d0d275","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There have been so many post-whatever terms in my lifetime (e.g., post-modernism, post-gender, post-race, post-feminist, post-colonial), that it is important to have a look at what 'postness' actually means. I support Nishant Shah’s definition that questions \"have either been resolved or have been arbitrated enough for us to move on.\" But is that really the case with photography? And what kind of photography are we talking about? The possible applications are as varied as the text as a medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e56332ad227c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7d28e1d7ef7f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I don't really care about the label post-photography. But what I can say about the future of photography is that it will not be determined by the medium itself, but by AI. The photography of the future is what AI leaves behind: documentaries. I see an irony in history here. When photography took jobs away from painting, painting was able to develop away from depiction and towards 20th-century painting. Now AI is taking jobs away from photography, and what's left is depiction."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cf588f7e4b64","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, PSEUDOMNESIA III | Psychoanalysis Gone Wrong, promptography, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-71a5e206b85038ed88d154e0c7d8f4ca246fc355-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-71a5e206b85038ed88d154e0c7d8f4ca246fc355-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"158d3f803531","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"46a6aa64b5e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9203f4f2b29e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you work on your images with AI, your process is quite elaborate. You may use the term \"promptography\" when you describe the process, but it is far from being done once you prompted. Do you speak about your process, or is that your \"magic\" trick?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"58d8b278122e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"98ebde58c4ca0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I am happy to speak about the structural workflow. In the past, I mostly started with text prompts, then I used the resulting images as material for Midjourney’s blend, which fuses 2 to 5 images to a new one. The blend results became material for image prompts, which combine a reference image with a text prompt. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"72f5fc566c1b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4e91ae618f6c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I saw a promising image, I continued with inpainting (erasing parts of the image and using a new text prompt to generate this part again) or outpainting (expanding the canvas, adding pixels, and telling the AI with text prompts what to fill in the new space). "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5c38ced4cc10","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da87d69e32eb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Today I often use my older AI images to start with. I use them to transfer the style; I also change images while upscaling (enlarging the pixel size). Upscaling has become a creative discipline of its own, offering additional text prompts and a hallucination scale. I also use 'nudify' apps (originally made to undress figures) for inpainting/outpainting, as they are less censored. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8cc6992fa4cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7e462ee8e2b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Photoshop Beta recently added an inpainting/outpainting option that uses image references and is very helpful in the process. But each work has a different workflow: Generally speaking, I am always experimenting with new approaches and tools."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1891c767ae28","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"162c6db7a691","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"972cf8eccd520","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The prejudice is that working with AI is like consuming fast food. It’s fast and not well-prepared. From my own experiences working with AI, you need to know exactly what you want, and in order to get that, you need a concept and a storyline. This already is quite time-intensive."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4c1404ee82bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"600ca894f2880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"What are the skills you feel you need the most when working with AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"361c260d4d51","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4f6c51744dc70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: You need to have a professional background in any image-making. It will help you to create informed text prompts, as the majority of possible text prompt elements refer to your knowledge of a certain medium, its history and technology, your knowledge of composition, the use of colors and light, and the use of visual references and genres. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"59a23b6056df","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc13c5abcffa","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A professional background will also help you in evaluating the generated images and refining the prompts. I have staged photos and videos my whole life, thus I know how to compose an image from scratch. It also helps that I have always collaborated with other artists. You need to combine the strengths of the team members; otherwise, you will fail. Collaborating with AI is similar. You need to have a sound knowledge of the setup and the features of the available technology. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0048e7a2af5c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"266bd274de76","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Only when you know the strengths and weaknesses of the current AI platforms will you be able to combine skills in a meaningful way and be the leader of this collaboration between man and machine."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1f6790e8edb0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e146859387c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1cbe7301c9940","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is that comparable to when you work with photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0a6f2abb7cc6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d6940898ab3e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I see many comparisons in the creative workflow to photography, drawing, and painting. The main difference is my role: As an artist working with AI, I stop being the solo singer and become the conductor of an anonymous choir: The training data of the AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ee221a98e938","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4c63679cfcd4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4aae8d4c040b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When I look at your AI artwork, I see the history of photography in it. How do you approach working on projects such as PSEUDOMNESIA III, fake memories of art history, and HUNGER, vanitas symbols for the future?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"50e2103628ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2f1ee15b59b80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: PSEUDOMNESIA III was a creative experiment in the summer of 2023. I was invited to show at Marion Gallery Panama, one of the leading commercial galleries of abstract art in Latin America. I wanted to find out if I could create a fusion of the histories of abstract art and photography. I succeeded. The series has become a classic AI work and is shown in museums and festivals around the world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bdcfe9af1860","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"657c003326730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HUNGER was the first work I created with Stable Diffusion, shortly after its official release in the summer of 2022. I wanted to see how far I could push the AI. To produce crazy body mutations, I used text prompts like \"a worm is giving birth to a wild boar is giving birth to a woman is giving birth to a man who is vomiting a bird who is eating the worm\". My social media followers hated it; they found it revolting. I said, \"Stop being babies, I am only posting harmless images on meta; otherwise, I will be banned immediately\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e736ad517fc0","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, HUNGER #28, promptography, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a7af5a08b3c2c3141ac8ee475b6b4cf144c538a4-1500x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a7af5a08b3c2c3141ac8ee475b6b4cf144c538a4-1500x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9cf76b1a8673","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"eb311bc040a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"61f7a92b43940","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Working with AI means you could potentially generate thousands of images. Today, I spoke with an artist who has created about 200,000 images for a project and then narrowed it down to 100 pieces. How do you know when an artwork is complete? One click could potentially lead you in various new directions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"451949c20bd2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"463bb1c257d20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: You feel it when an image is finished. I learned how to choose in photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"304764c92d89","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"229ee3f86e88","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5b42e2f00f90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: PSEUDOMNESIA, HUNGER, VOMIT, and AMBIPHILIA are some of the titles of your artwork. The titles themselves make it clear that you are not interested in presenting surreal depictions of reality that could potentially be true in another time. What is your aim? Do you have a message?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3de61ada82f1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"97035227a0e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I have a psychological approach. I am interested in the workings of the human mind. My message is a very old one: travel inside and become more conscious of who you are. The ancient Greeks called it Γνῶθι σαυτόν ('know thyself') and attributed it to the oracle in Delphi."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b8569cef1842","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9dcbc5a25db80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So next time, when you are visiting an exhibition, don’t ask yourself, 'What does the artist want to tell me?' Ask yourself what the artwork triggers in you: What emotions, thoughts, and feelings?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4eba179af443","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, HUNGER #1, promptography, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-26880d000e9f98d0e389f6e92bb6c5e1a5d6ff92-6144x6144-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-26880d000e9f98d0e389f6e92bb6c5e1a5d6ff92-6144x6144-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"26a17477997e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c035c426f9c2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a806a3c971f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are there other artists using AI that inspire your artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c1f23e915deb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"12c8198be9140","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: There are colleagues whose work I love, such as AI.S.A.M., Ben Millar Cole, LeMoon, Forbidden Toys or Placenta Shake. But they don’t inspire me. My inspiration is the human mind, as seen in psychology and philosophy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f77b11028ab2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"594be9695bc0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c32b9f4c2db20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Which photographers and / or painters influence your \"promptography\"?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d9bae4dbbce8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bffaa990a1140","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: No particular artists influenced my AI work. I am also not working with style references or reference images of other artists. But I have my favorites in the history of art, like Rembrandt, Hieronymus Bosch, Rene Magritte, Roger Ballen. Or filmmakers such as Peter Greenaway, Alejandro Jodorowsky, Quentin Dupieux, or Bertrand Mandico."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fb94b59608b1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"97d65b6de860","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0a337a13705b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you fear that you create too much work with AI for curators, galleries, collectors, and institutions to digest?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ebb7364861d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb3f57c30c0e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: I don’t think that I will create too much work to digest. Since I am critical in my selection and take my time with the official release of work, nobody will be overdosing on it. However, you can expect 3-4 bodies of work per year."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"02eb3edf096b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Boris Eldagsen, PSEUDOMNESIA III | Note To Myself, promptography, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-946e639129a9034beb33b5d5bfbb35cc81ee07d1-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-946e639129a9034beb33b5d5bfbb35cc81ee07d1-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"a03eb9def628","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6e950101a426","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"88291a7a42dc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are your thoughts about the future of artists working with AI? Do you have any recommendations or advice you would like to share?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"48eb816a04df","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7435bb323b0b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"BE: Soon, it will be normal to use AI as an artistic tool. My advice is to identify your unique skills and knowledge and use them for prompting. Remember that AI is a knowledge booster. Experiment and create your individual workflow. This is an exciting time for creatives. I truly believe that ‘Augmented Creativity’ is possible. By identifying the unique strengths of AI creativity, human creativity will become more focused on reaching a new level."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bcae0d485da5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"101baf327163","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a387ac6982a5","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for your sharing your thoughts and knowlegde! "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3d6298767bdd","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"804e9c241382","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"47739667-0bdb-408b-8a1d-7c5c543ff3c4","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"19d39571d259","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"50310945b91e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-530472304906","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"e577183f5da6","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"caf3e1887ae1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"679b0ee8-e7de-4a0d-9944-45c664ec22b2","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"59b68ba65d7e","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"67bc3aabc331","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"96de8287-f82c-4c74-ba75-9bc544d18097","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-06-19T02:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Boris Eldagsen is the artist who made headlines by turning down the prestigious Sony Photography World Award in 2023. In a world where AI sparks debates between haters and worshippers, Eldagsen offers a unique perspective that transcends the binary narrative. Rejecting the notion that AI is solely a threat to creativity, Eldagsen emphasizes the importance of human agency and expertise in harnessing AI as a tool for artistic expression. ","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-979c6680da1154b4ff43fbca92824f02a48fd2dd-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"boris-eldagsen-the-photography-of-the-future-is-what-ai-leaves-behind"},"store":null,"subtitle":"AI AND PROMPTOGRAPHY","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-979c6680da1154b4ff43fbca92824f02a48fd2dd-1920x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"BORIS ELDAGSEN: \"THE PHOTOGRAPHY OF THE FUTURE IS WHAT AI LEAVES BEHIND\""},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"14303428cc23","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-02T12:16:14Z","_id":"279d8224-bf4e-4c74-b42d-a9644c1d30ca","_rev":"dZ1bpYeXEPIJKyOfuJMNfo","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T12:38:46Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-324d0336519c9f9c2834feeb7662a6486ab78d85-2160x1440-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"be74bf1547bc","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"e34d199d0031","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"88128fba5e110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The Swedish artist "},{"_key":"37a45e48dfad","_type":"span","marks":["d228e8d82ef3"],"text":"Jonas Lund"},{"_key":"163d7d6484c1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" has been concerned with the emergence of values and the distribution of power in the art market since 2012. He creates his works with the help of algorithms and viewers, who, for example, have voting rights in decisions affecting his art and career as owners of the JONAS LUND TOKEN (2018). He talks to Anika Meier about the emergence of values, changes in the art market, and the benefits of NFTs. And why do animals play an important role in his JONAS LUND TOKEN universe?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"d228e8d82ef3","_type":"link","href":"https://jonaslund.com/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a0d1eb9703be","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"752c614b9c7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8cf48011c4ac0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: When did you know you wanted to become an artist? And was there a certain point in your life when you thought you had achieved that goal?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"53b511f29b56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f73c4c37be1e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Jonas Lund: I never really wanted to become an artist; it just happened because I kept making art and I kept being invited to participate in shows. My personal goal with making art, and what my practice is truly optimized for, is to continue learning new things and being challenged with new problems or solutions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5ad0e14ed17d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e6671b616938","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6c4413bb1dbc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM:"},{"_key":"6c4413bb1dbc1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"6c4413bb1dbc2","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Being an artist means being successful in the market; otherwise, you would not be able to sustain yourself. Do you agree?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"83852f2c8623","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dba8569545e30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: Being an artist means that you’re an artist. It has nothing to do with the art market. Of course, as your career develops, you have to relate to the market, but that usually happens after you’re already an artist. I think this line of thinking is a very typical American-centric one, that success is only measured through an artist's performance in the art market. But there are so many different ways of thinking about success and what being an artist means, and success in the art market is only one of those metrics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"14d1a5cd0207","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"db8bf583511b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6a2b581ac7eb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you define value as an artist with a background in net.art and post-internet art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"57fa3953e5d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c7b9b116a0ec0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: It’s a pretty elusive thing, but what I really enjoy, and would ascribe a lot of value to, is the moment in which you discover a new artwork, and you don’t exactly know what’s going on. There’s a moment of confusion, of insecurity. What is it? What does it do? Is there a trick? And then maybe you’ll get an a-ha moment, and it all clicks into place, or maybe not, but it’s the moment of discovery, of confusion, of excitement that matters and creates the lasting value."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0fe1a8f136f6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"515cc964e6d4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e32d8392d000","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have been exploring the creation of value and the distribution of power in the art market since 2012. What are your main findings?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5ed322368b2c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fd7fd82f4f640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: Value in the art world is produced by the art world in a beautifully circular arrangement based on the institutional theory of art – art is art because the art world says it’s art, so by extension, this institution, \"the art world,\" also decides what’s valuable and important and what is not. The art world consists of all the typical players: collectors, dealers, curators, directors, writers, auctioneers, and artists, and the higher up you are in the hierarchy, the more influence you have to determine what’s important and what should be platformed, mediated, and circulated in the art world.\n\nI’ve been exploring that system from many different angles, like in FOMO, where I wrote an algorithm to create instructions for how to make successful works of art, exploring different value-creating formulas; to the Jonas Lund Token, where I’ve distributed shares in my practice to ‘hedge’ the decision making process with representatives from the art world.\n\nOne of the many findings is that it’s very difficult, probably impossible, to quantify value in any meaningful way beyond market value, which is also what makes art truly magical. The impossibility of finding a definitive formula for what makes an artwork good, bad, great, or fantastic, is one of the few things left that can’t be hyper-optimized and quantified by automatic processes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e50fd5d5e01d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"The Fear of Missing Out, 2013, installation view Showroom Mama. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1665f21503340795af516dae832a65f8f1f578d4-1024x681-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1665f21503340795af516dae832a65f8f1f578d4-1024x681-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"cdc48c8d89a9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c2e96c2c3f7b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d49acc2db4350","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What has changed in the last 10 years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dbcdc87607e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2aca15d9ce6f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: Over the last 10 years, a lot has changed, but at the same time, it’s more or less all the same. In terms of the art world dynamic, it’s pretty much unchanged. Sure, trends come and go, but the underlying structure is the same. Business as usual."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0297b8c1006f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"818ed57d5ef20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"From a broader perspective, my feeling is that pretty much everything is worse today compared to ten years ago, but that’s probably completely incorrect from an objective point of view, but the feeling is there. The Earth is on fire, inflation is at an all-time high, there are ongoing wars, supply-chain disasters, fires, and floods, and it's difficult to find hope for a better future, but we keep going!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a9733088810","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ac8ee88fd45b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"affd3edb10980","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM:"},{"_key":"affd3edb10981","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"affd3edb10982","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"One of your most recent NFT projects is about finding the most valuable painting. The most famous painting is the Mona Lisa at the Louvre, visited by 30.000 people a day. What if paintings in a museum would transform and evolve based on interactions? Would we get to see the most valuable painting instead of just the most famous one?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9fe506ecf2d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"21ad7ed9d8160","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: Part of the exploration in the piece is what type of value is included in the idea of 'most valuable’, most valuable in terms of formalistic ideals? Which is the most valuable in terms of monetary value? Which is the most valuable in terms of popularity? To me, the most valuable painting right now is a piece from 2017, featuring a pink elephant, so it’s also a question of when something goes from being personally the most valuable to me to being recognized as such by a larger network/audience. When does the value proposition switch from a subjective personal one to a globally recognized one?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"48155c46bb1e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Most Valuable Painting (MVP), 2022. mvp.art screenshot. Courtesy the artist.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7bfd33b95c272581e37334a5b3e54a31d1a57218-1024x666-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7bfd33b95c272581e37334a5b3e54a31d1a57218-1024x666-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"8cca0a083d99","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"823b57c5b106","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ae957547d6e90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM:"},{"_key":"ae957547d6e91","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"ae957547d6e92","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Your 512 individual digital paintings optimize themselves based on digital user engagement such as likes, clicks, ‘swipe rights’, and previous sales, resulting in the most valuable painting on mvp.art. Each MVP’s aesthetic is determined by a fitness algorithm that tracks its performance, while the most valuable painting is the result of the previous 511 sales. Can you share information about the data you gathered? What has performed best so far?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3888c51d7c3d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"10bf7b6cfb8b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: It’s always fascinating to observe people’s choices, because the choices that seem so obvious to me are not the obvious choices for someone else, so one size does not fit all in that sense. I think overall, I didn’t expect that the circular pieces would be such a popular choice."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"31c2370e8849","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ea41ae99f8d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"59494cf0d36c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM:"},{"_key":"59494cf0d36c1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"59494cf0d36c2","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NFTs democratize the art market. That has been the claim in 2021. Artists can sell their works directly to collectors via marketplaces. Simultaneously, by selling them at lower prices, digital artworks become collectibles, making them more accessible to a wider audience. Is the crypto art market really that different from the traditional art market?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e762955a700c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"922a7f7aaf750","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: I don’t think NFTs are democratizing much; it’s simply just another way of distributing work and facilitating sales. Artists could sell their works to collectors directly before, but it was frowned upon by their gallerists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"37fcc9c7d19f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b3a8df900830","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Conflating the crypto art market into one singular thing also feels kind of impractical as there are so many different facets to it. Compare the market on the Tezos blockchain versus the Ethereum one, for example, and you get two very different markets."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0a5585e8d81c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad20c4b81ae00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I think overall the crypto art market and the global art market are largely the same, but they have some important differences. The crypto market is faster, it’s instantly global, it’s rapidly growing, it has introduced a new class of collectors, there’s a lot more artist-to-artist support in terms of collecting, artists are also more easily introduced to collecting, the barrier of entry is lower, the average quality of works is typically lower, and there’s much less curation, just to name a few."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d846b2aacb7c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4111c995bf20","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cd86b84efc880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM:"},{"_key":"cd86b84efc881","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"cd86b84efc882","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In March 2018, you inaugurated the JONAS LUND TOKEN. The visual representation of the JONAS LUND TOKEN has taken different shapes and forms since then. JONAS LUND TOKEN (JLT) is a distributed, decentralized autonomous artistic practice that aims to optimize and streamline the decision-making process in art production and the strategic decisions concerning your career path. JLT shareholders participate in the decision-making process by casting votes on proposals and through discussions on the JLT website. As your career path improves and your market value increases, so does the value of a JLT, thus allowing board members to profit through dividends and potential sales of the tokens. Why did you decide to allow shareholders to have a say in most of your decisions as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"42f62f1b06b4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4aa73863b38f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: The initial text of the piece describes the motivation as follows: \"Lund is interested in subverting the traditional power structures that inform the contemporary art world and the process of making the correct strategic decisions for each given situation. The distributed advisory board, with an incentive to further strengthen the position of the artist, as it has a direct connection to the value of the Jonas Lund Token, aims to increase the efficiency of the decision DAOs, decentralization, and Web3 making process and make each strategic decision count,\" which I think is still totally on point. Overall, I’m interested in emerging technologies, so it felt like an accurate approach to explore distributed decision-making."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c5706f8f9bec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3220333d5d690","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Following the logic of the value production mechanisms from above, \"art is art because the art world says it’s art,\" a distributed decentralized advisory board consisting of art world representatives making decisions about my work is a perfectly hedged setup. Because the board members are art world representatives, the value creators, whatever they decide automatically becomes the correct decision in a circular self-fulfilling prophecy kind of setup, essentially making all the decisions hedged: \"the art world says it’s good\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ab47f0ee6fbf","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jonas Lund, Proposal #31, 2021, screenshot Jonas Lund Token website, courtesy the artist","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b5422b8f9d5f6cb9b35ff136e4a87b84af796bbd-1024x600-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b5422b8f9d5f6cb9b35ff136e4a87b84af796bbd-1024x600-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"4357834b8778","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c664b00ee862","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d6c2373ec240","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you feel you have lost control over your artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"860d17c2320e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d5aab6db09b90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: No, not yet, because I'm still the majority shareholder, but as more JLT is distributed, I hope to lose more control."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a117a8fcd08e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"07d8fe60bcb8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"973eb3e71f200","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I remember that you asked your shareholders to decide whether you should go on a sabbatical for six months starting in autumn 2021. Due to the NFT hype, you got a lot of attention and invitations to participate in exhibitions. Why did you take that risk?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9fd7016d4cd4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f35220af27a40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: That proposal wasn’t submitted by me but by a concerned JLT board member (anyone with more than 100 JLTs can submit proposals to the board), who thought it would be good for me to take a break. I thought it was not a good idea to take a sabbatical. The timing was really off, and no new work for half a year felt very harsh. It was a very close vote, but luckily the no-sabbatical option won out in the end."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1e1b1f9e42c4","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Invest in Jonas Lund, 2019. Installation view Behind the Screen, Kindl Contemporary. Courtesy the artist and Office Impart.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-921c743107c08d7cb422f1c05a2839e9ca49d9b0-1024x683-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-921c743107c08d7cb422f1c05a2839e9ca49d9b0-1024x683-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"53d67aef52a4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6275a0621bdf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"918b2632bf7d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your digital solo show ON THIS DAY at KÖNIG GALERIE in Decentraland, a virtual world based on the blockchain, explored memories and influence. You and your animals took the digital visitors on a journey through the JONAS LUND TOKEN universe. You asked visitors / collectors: \"Choose your kindred spirit, the animal you relate to, and become part of the JLT community by owning a representative and symbol of the JLT universe.\" Why animals?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c0a40c431969","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"341c79765b490","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: Animals are more or less the opposite of humans. You know how in action movies you mostly don’t care when human actors get injured, but if an animal gets hurt it’s awful, terrible, and very disturbing? That’s kind of the logic of the animals in the JLT universe. They are representatives of core values, each animal having a long history of symbolism attached to it, and as animal symbols, they are far removed from the complexities of the human condition, but rather they are beacons of hope, clarity, and clear positions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e2c356985582","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"On This Day. Installation view König Digital, St. Agnes, Decentraland. Courtesy the artist and KÖNIG GALERIE.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5d99715fb96d4c51b17cfbdbfbcd5d857cefc983-1024x683-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-5d99715fb96d4c51b17cfbdbfbcd5d857cefc983-1024x683-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"59356c4f8457","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"701098d1b0af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d45560b7391a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The video game IN SEARCH OF IDEAS is your latest exploration into your tokenized artistic practice. You announced it‘s coming soon. What can players and collectors of your JLT COLLECTIBLES expect?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d37f58d2747e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fa24bf1bcbdc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JL: An open-world exploration game including many different exhibitions, animals, places to discover, things to do, and people to visit."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7369dbc3ef9a","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"80b6a9bd7b25","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"67f0103e9f59","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Jonas Lund "},{"_key":"440c56043fec","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"creates paintings, sculpture, photography, websites, and performances that reflect critically on contemporary networked systems and power structures. He earned an MA at Piet Zwart Institute, Rotterdam and a BFA at Gerrit Rietveld Academie, Amsterdam."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c494ec1c29eb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01024ab420bf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"He has exhibited globally, with solo exhibitions at The Photographers’ Gallery and Whitechapel Art Gallery, London; KÖNIG GALERIE, Berlin; Steve Turner Gallery, Los Angeles; Växjö Konsthall, Sweden; Showroom MAMA, Rotterdam; Francisco Carolinum, Linz; and at the New Museum, New York. He has also participated in numerous group exhibitions including at Centre Pompidou, Paris; Schinkel Pavillon and KINDL Center for Contemporary Art, Berlin; ZKM, Karlsruhe; Vienna Biennale 2019, Witte De With, Rotterdam; and the Stedelijk Museum, Amsterdam."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cf5c18a79a73","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"cace8ff2f417","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"29dc28ce-cae1-4e39-bfe9-ba2eb3cb33be","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"0312fd6d2b49","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"992131275358","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"18190a99a060","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"42b2356e-babb-4b89-a5a0-fecb38516ebe","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"ebae4a8f2e5b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"03dd6c73-cbfa-4594-8174-73ad3633161c","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"0474ce7427b9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bb654090-dba4-4064-8712-ded79ddd97cd","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-01-08T11:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"The Swedish artist Jonas Lund has been concerned with the emergence of values and the distribution of power in the art market since 2012. He creates his works with the help of algorithms and viewers, who, for example, have voting rights in decisions affecting his art and career as owners of the JONAS LUND TOKEN (2018). He talks to Anika Meier about the emergence of values, changes in the art market, and the benefits of NFTs. And why do animals play an important role in his JONAS LUND TOKEN universe?","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"jonas-lund-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"TOKEN ECONOMY AND VALUE","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-324d0336519c9f9c2834feeb7662a6486ab78d85-2160x1440-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"JONAS LUND: WHAT DOES BEING AN ARTIST MEAN?"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"5f840d4d0503","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-12-12T13:23:11Z","_id":"092791f1-ed94-4a15-893d-22dd45e15dd4","_rev":"ZthcaWUJAg6CELweYyDPmP","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-12-17T18:32:45Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-97a261c7bba53fcf7e800ab846e2ab633eb2b9a2-878x697-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"043951a4b709","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"cb9ce55c618d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ead21fe9f010","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"It’s hard to imagine the Internet without social media. Instagram, TikTok, X, and Discord, for example. UBERMORGEN remember that time very well. That’s when they, lizvlx and Luzius Bernhard, started creating work on the Internet as media hackers; they were part of the digital avant-garde in the early 1990s and aren’t tired of constantly reinventing themselves and hacking systems. First the internet, later institutions. Their self-proclaimed goal was to become the pop stars of the Internet. To make a long story short, they have overachieved. In 2000, they reached a global audience of 500 million while challenging the FBI, CIA, and NSA during the U.S. presidential election."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5ae1ab52584c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"76f4a2746ff50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"lizvlx and Luzius Bernhard found each other in a basement in Vienna in 1994 and have started working together as an artist duo without clear responsibilities. They call themselves 'free floating radicals'. They are neither scared of being held responsible for their actions that challenge institutions and authorities, nor do they fear not being accepted by the art world. UBERMORGEN keep creating work for future audiences while the Internet around them changes at rapid speed. The Internet is changing, so their art is changing. From websites to NFTs, from cats to dicks."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"973ad82b5f34","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"186216a83fea0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, UBERMORGEN discuss the beginning of their career, early net.art, fishers and rods, and the commodification of digital assets."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a3865cf3ce81","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f0c68dbb81ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c856e11b0360","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Liz and Luzius, you founded UBERMORGEN in 1995. How did you meet?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cb82edc564c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"79632c964e330","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: We met the first time while working on the production of the cyberspace movie WIREHEAD in a secluded cellar in Vienna, and then again at an IT fair where Luzius was selling email accounts, hoping to bring more attention to net.art and etoy.com, the awesome internet boy band he was in back then."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"297d3b113a0d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN is an artist duo with a steady ascending worldwide presence, a synthesis of autistic actionist lizvlx (Liz Katlein, she) and pragmatic visionary Luzius Bernhard (they).","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9838cf7cf63a05f2197797203f3ff8b2e188e4d4-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9838cf7cf63a05f2197797203f3ff8b2e188e4d4-1366x1366-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"c5fa67004e65","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"baca9dc438f1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c68b670efbe0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why did you decide to work together?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"612c9b6a0cc1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4f40bd4a065e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: The desire for collaboration emerged right away after we became a private thing, even though Luzius was busy with etoy and lizvlx was working on the '194.152.164.137—userunfriendly' project. However, Luzius’ inclination to formally cooperate was hindered by a self-imposed cult mentality prevalent among etoy, a group of post-puberty, white male, Central-European, middle-class artists creating cutting-edge internet art. Despite lizvlx being informally associated with the group, we officially adhered to a policy that restricted any external (and female) engagements. Also, lizvlx was working as a computer tutor/sysadmin at the University of Economics and finishing her studies there. But once she was done with university and Luzius was done with etoy, we started our first official project together: An email-fake-hack titled "},{"_key":"afdb2abae0e5","_type":"span","marks":["2ebda101e5ad"],"text":"\"Linux wins Prix Ars Electronica due to Microsoft Intervention\"."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"2ebda101e5ad","_type":"link"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7dcc7da23996","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"94a26de3c1a6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1165c54f1100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What does UBERMORGEN stand for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fbf3ea94e6ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"12cbcf6841050","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: Literally, it means the day after tomorrow; that was and still is our credo: to think and live not for an immediate future but in the now, for a time beyond that now. So we actually exclusively produce for ‘future audiences’ ("},{"_key":"d1a497c59e1e","_type":"span","marks":["35233cc24661"],"text":"UBERMORGEN Slogan 220,"},{"_key":"7faf9f279fed","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" 2023)."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"35233cc24661","_type":"link","href":" https://typed.art/10423"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b9ad3e27e5ea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"128d3fa0d1bc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Today's audiences are too unstable, unreachable, and lagging behind our neurodiverse, hard-core paths and stories. Additionally, UBERMORGEN metaphorically also refers to a greater tomorrow, which we refer to in our current practice as HAPPY DYSTOPIA. Otherwise, there is a position within any grid or matrix where we could locate ourselves; we are free floating radicals."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2401c88896fc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, 2023, Happy Dystopia (Two Stegosaurs & the Vending Machine of Joy, Quarter 2023 Results).","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4489aded7137651eb191312c9cc7fde6e67293d9-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4489aded7137651eb191312c9cc7fde6e67293d9-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"a28bab469712","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, 2023, Happy Dystopia (Whitewashed World: Dinosauria's Glacial Gaze II, Quarter 2023 Results).","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0242c953fd6eb71033130140d8bf4e75829c3ef3-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0242c953fd6eb71033130140d8bf4e75829c3ef3-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"9e797bfaa887","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"64e31bd56d9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"535416247ee10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’re icons of early net.art. Your list of exhibitions and activities could fill a book. To name a few institutions, you’ve exhibited at the New Museum in New York, the Centre Pompidou in Paris, ZKM Karlsruhe, HeK Basel, Ars Electronica in Linz, and KW in Berlin. What was the net art scene in the 1990s like?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"281b91bdde87","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e495d2d43cf80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: We also showed in Mexico City, Nairobi, Mauritius, in Damascus at the Syrian National Museum, South Korea, and quite often in Tokyo; we did software art and Torture Classics performances in Ramallah and "},{"_key":"4f931038db5c","_type":"span","marks":["13c12db558da"],"text":"Jerusalem"},{"_key":"ee0d5f5aaa90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", and have worked with many Eastern-European art institutions and initiatives."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"13c12db558da","_type":"link","href":"https://ipnic.org/superenhanced/index_newspaper.html"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2a55491e4376","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"020a6641d1770","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"One of the sweet aspects of net.art was being part of a determined, dispersed, and future-net-focused group of people and collectives from around the planet. We knew each other around the whole globe, not in person but via email and CuSeeMe video software."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1a6a729c217e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"10ae3b2068f60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When we started meeting each other IRL years or more later, interactions were always so loving and playful because we knew each other by our work and convictions. We were all so focused on work, experimenting hard, but also interested in exchange and international collaborations due to the limited number of artists in the field. There was a clear feeling of being the first ones using the web for art and entertainment, and we were focused on pushing the boundaries of the medium, crossing borders, experimenting with drugs, aesthetics, stories, and technology, but also returning to the common reality again and again and sharing the experiences with a newly developing audience."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"33a7c2c937cc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b39e907635af0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The world outside the net.art and IT/internet scene was mostly still completely unaware of what the internet even was, so we had to stick together to not feel like complete outcasts. But of course, this status as working in a field that had zero restrictions, no supervision, no surveillance, pretty much complete freedom, and new tags every week was so exhilarating and enjoyable that being understood or recognized had relatively no relevance."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c4ab440bd2b2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d2e6a2b5dfe0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"30b727d829850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you get started creating net.art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fd29bacfb4ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"25b988d721af0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: One foggy morning in November 1993, Luzius sat in a boring university building in Vienna, and he was introduced to Gopher and Telnet. Immediately, his brain literally exploded. lizvlx’s mom had already been a coder in the 1960s, so lizvlx grew up with computers around."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"02aee82581ef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"97e2c2abdf620","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Then, in 1994, lizvlx took a seminar at the Wirtschaftsuni that was titled AKTIENANALYSE VIA INTERNET, and she remembers how one minute in this computer room changed her already coding mind: walking past an ATM machine later, she thought, damn, this is networked, but I don't have access, and her laptop was useless, because she had access, but it was not networked. It was the ultimate excitement of a lifetime; from one second to another, we saw the future; we saw UBERMORGEN. It was immediately clear to us that this new technology, the web in particular, was capable of delivering anything we ever dreamed of—good and evil. The very next day, Luzius cancelled all his plans and started creating ASCII entertainment. lizvlx started coding HTML malfunctions and experiments."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6ec9d6da90df","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, Website 2001 (Pulldown), 2001.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9b78da866344d3668bc61b3ae2b6558c5fa817c1-1374x918-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9b78da866344d3668bc61b3ae2b6558c5fa817c1-1374x918-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"fc1e26e82f4f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c61dfe32a7ce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b85ec344ad210","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you work together as an artist duo? Are there clear roles and responsibilities?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"24444c8ccb40","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e733df2e35c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nUBERMORGEN: We disagree to agree. We don’t talk about work between the two of us. As unaware spectrum animals, we do not even remotely understand the position of the ‘other’ within our seemingly unified universe. Hence, we acted, created, and released under the brand UBERMORGEN."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"00d5ab6eeeff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a063b131c00b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Sometimes I think it is more of a self-evolving and random label than an artist duo with strategic considerations and conceptual sharpness. Viewing the world through the lens of continuous transformation, we see ourselves less as creators and more as mirrors. We laser-focus popular topics into projects that play with aesthetics, code dynamics, memes, and, very importantly, the re-instrumentalization of the different kinds of Newspeak in the form of Orwellian Begriffsverschiebungen, as well as the standard situations caused by Alternative Facts and old-style propaganda."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e6f1360318fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"977470368b000","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Oh, but who does what? Well, we don't like to disclose that, but yes, it is lizvlx who usually does the code and the visuals, and Luzius is the master of the narrative."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e3329312c034","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b77bd742c7c3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"78d3d12bf70b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Luzius, you’ve studied with Professor Weibel and later with Lev Manovich and Bazon Brock. One could say they were the founding fathers of theoretical thinking about media art. What did you learn from them?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"336e5ff55166","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d1185adbae30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: Weibel taught me Viennese Actionism, and he showed me how physics and philosophy can influence your artistic practice, as well as how to stay a child in a harsh and brutal world. He replaced my dad as my intellectual expansion. He was a powerhouse of manic hyperactive disorgansation, a true leader for an ADHD/autistic dude like me. Manovich and Brock—I have never read anything from them. They were just people with weird energies and strange hyper-masculine identities that I revolved around for a while. They have helped me, through differential experience, find my own place in a world not meant for humans like me or humans at all."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6a5c7fefc770","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e0c2259f760a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3321e2ea53170","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are media hackers, and there were, let’s say, a few incidents in the past. Your best-known artwork is VOTEAUCTION from 2000. CNN called you \"Maverick Austrian Businessmen.\" The project resulted in lawsuits. What are your goals with your political activities?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"25e198597008","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ebeb211cf1d50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: A broad-spectrum antibiotic of small stabs and hugs, confusions, and parallel realities. If you want to call that political. We don’t. Our pure experiment results in uncomfortable output. Even the smallest space, every action, every protest, every change, every demand, or every utopia is appropriated and consumed, and radically individualized products are delivered for each target person and their various reality contexts (Radical Customization). We do not appreciate this, but we don’t fight it; we don’t have message control; we don’t do actionism for another purpose than to experience complexities and symbiosis."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3633571440ed","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c40678d1c50f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b216988dfd240","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You hack systems, and at the same time, your work has been exhibited at some of the most prestigious art institutions in the world. Has that been on your agenda, or did it happen and you embraced it?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c1512e588128","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"746ca78b9a8f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: This is happening more and more recently, and it has been a thing in the past too, but sometimes very scattered. We do plan for a lot of things; I mean, we are not autistic for nothing. So we don't plan for institutions or events to host our work, but we plan for locations. Usually, these locations are not Paris and New York but rather situations. So we will say that we (and here I mean all of us, which includes our kids Billie and Lola Mae) plan to go somewhere where it is remote, quiet, safe, preferably warm, and a special interest will get satisfied (fish, volcanoes, telescopes, local politics). And then we do work there, find new friends there, and luckily for us, later people who are relevant in the art circus contact us if we would be interested in working with them, and then we usually have work that sounds compelling to them to offer, like "},{"_key":"70a2e8eb1d0f","_type":"span","marks":["2e1ae62ec1a2"],"text":"WOPPOW"},{"_key":"68c5e760abfd","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", SOMALI PIRATE FASHION, or "},{"_key":"964f85af148d","_type":"span","marks":["0c998c3dbd7a"],"text":"SCHOOL OF ENERGY"},{"_key":"3842823543b4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"2e1ae62ec1a2","_type":"link"},{"_key":"0c998c3dbd7a","_type":"link"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cdc88c4835f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e9b41feba17f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We see ourselves as fishers. We hold the rods into the water and do our stuff while waiting to see if someone falls for the bait. And then we act fast. So for us, being part of the extreme avantgarde means being ready for the moment when the world catches up to our ideas and vision."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c40780d8ab8a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"771719b96e810","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This is, of course, also a technique of subversion, which, in the literal sense of the word, means to turn things around. We have this reflex where we intuitively move in directions that others retreat from. We are deliberately ignorant, radically experimental, highly emotional, and fully authentic. In the last few years, we have started to embed institutional hacks into our relationships, adding another layer to our work by ignoring hierarchies and discarding the consequences of our actions. Due to our disabilities, we were never really wanted in the art world; we never functioned as it was expected of us, so our method was to turn the tables from our seemingly weak position into a powerful stance using actionist methods and risky assets."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"239b9eb28055","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f28f54259a8d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Just recently, we were commissioned by the KW Institute of Contemporary Art Berlin and released PMC WAGNER ARTS. We publish a textual and visual manifesto and essay in Kunstforum INTERNATIONAL where we show an exercise on how to write a text so that it describes something in such a way that it represents what it is."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9f4e5fac51d2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a46ee363f1cb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2024, we are commissioned to increase the complexity of our work to a radical level for the Busan Biennale. In 2021, we delivered a stubbornly pop commission dealing with curation and AI for the Liverpool Biennale and the "},{"_key":"6ce64e26e76a","_type":"span","marks":["010f07bfc308"],"text":"Whitney Museum of American Art"},{"_key":"18d1eafefdca","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". It's sometimes painful to work for these institutions, but it is always satisfying to play chess within this elitist club of intellectuals."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"010f07bfc308","_type":"link","href":"https://biennial.ai"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"965d13aa59ef","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, PMC Wagner Arts (The New Master), 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1e2c022d9981c502149ad1c128f4ba261642c499-1024x1026-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1e2c022d9981c502149ad1c128f4ba261642c499-1024x1026-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"d57a00e06532","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, PMC Wagner Arts (He-Thiel), 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7390c490c23d143ff2faf7711daaeb4ec94bd927-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7390c490c23d143ff2faf7711daaeb4ec94bd927-1024x1024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"72a810e0a3f8","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, PMC Wagner Arts (Red Logo), 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9b2293f718a817173e679ae1615b1b121549d308-2000x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9b2293f718a817173e679ae1615b1b121549d308-2000x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"599c8fdba413","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"95fc62f37d33","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4eaf20abada60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: CLICKISTAN was commissioned by the Whitney Museum. How did you approach working on such a commission?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"68f8355ff531","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"94d317a0144c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: Working with Christiane Paul was and is always based on trust and common knowledge of material, conceptual clarity, and aesthetic understanding. In this case, the commission had a very clear task: to make something that could be enjoyed by donors for the Whitney Museum and stimulate them to spend money. We did that by creating entertainment in the form of a retro-looking game with strong net.art 1990s influences."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"68adfa288e32","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"215975f3312e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f28f8adb76630","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Christiane Paul from the Whitney states that the game 'is not very challenging.' What were your intentions when you created the game?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"76a8c62d8784","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ee7af162a750","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: Challenges used to be fun, but these days they got toxified by neo-liberalism, and now they are mostly weaponized items to scare aware people from feeling worthy and human. We knew that the idea of gamification was still new but almost hot in 2010, and we knew that people were innately afraid of not understanding anything about internet art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"73ab668562d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ae89bd81f3b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So we thought, let’s bring this together, playfulness, but no, zero skills are needed. Growing up as net artists, we always thought about the user and their situation. We knew in the 1990s that people using our stuff would be sitting in front of their computers at home. So with this game, we knew people would access it via their mobiles on their commute or on their computers from work. So we wanted to offer an accessible and playful distraction that enabled them to not be scared of internet art but to feel it, to like it, and to know that they could in fact understand it. And then spend money."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e88e1e31e222","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, CLICKISTAN (LEVEL 3), 2010/2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-95ed8174713abb6d28152b300819cc8f339288d3-3228x1796-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-95ed8174713abb6d28152b300819cc8f339288d3-3228x1796-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8363255365898","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"20c274faaa86","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d3c758211680","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f64249f85b70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Looking at CLICKISTAN today makes me feel nostalgic. You were inspired by Space Invaders (1978), Donkey Kong (1981), and Pac Man (1980). Do you think the reception of net art has changed over the years? To understand net art, the viewer has, in many cases, to have an understanding of coding and internet culture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c590e0052d4f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"103f0cafa4ba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: It's mainly about context and understanding how to situate yourself when looking at a piece that was created such a long time ago. As a user, you need a high level of imagination and empathy to embed yourself in another time; you need to open up emotionally and intellectually. This is often hard to do with our work since many of our concepts and aesthetics served as a precursor to so many artistic and commercial platforms and products years after we released them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"864a6a9b0c6d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fbcd0027c8df0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Hence, the work often seems dated and not-so-exciting because there are applications and products based on our ideas and projects that the users are used to. But knowing your art history—knowing the history of avant-garde art and the internet—will allow you to see the high risk we took in creating totally independent work and collaborate in a very stubborn and perverted way with powerful institutions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7fc1bd9b2581","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9c78c5a4fe56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bd509b0dccf20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are one of the very few artists from the net.art scene that didn’t stay away from NFTs. When we first discussed NFTs in 2020, you were critical. What made you change your mind?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a2001fa050fa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"15d0fb0c16500","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: First of all, I don't think anyone should ever need a reason to change their mind, but rather we think we need a reason why not to change our minds. More concretely, we were not opposed to NFTs but affirmatively hated cryptocurrency."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"08a65edc31f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a199929ab1460","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We had discussed Bitcoin and the new blockchain technology in 2010 with many digital artists, but we decided that we didn’t want to be yet again the avant-garde in a new field. Sometimes it just gets too exhausting to always be involved with the new sh*t."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc2e0735bb3a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2569c23b97e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We wanted to board when the time was right for us. We wanted to be in charge of the technology, not passengers in the maelstrom of technological madness. In 2021, the time was right, and we finally had enough time to get into NFTs. It was awesome to see a new medium evolve! We have been looking for and longing for this for years: the 15-second pop-song (TikTok) and short video as independent works. It was wonderful to see something happen that we have been working on since 1994. The standardization and commodification of digital assets. Lovely! It felt like the early internet days (1994–1996)—a real sweet underground moment for just a little while. It was great to play with this new-old medium, creating THE D1CKS and UNINVITED."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c8d0f745ae26","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, The D1ck #0101 (Wiener Werkstätten), 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e352201ad9b144a1b3f06f7391fb23f6e165bbd7-1000x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e352201ad9b144a1b3f06f7391fb23f6e165bbd7-1000x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"ffaa88ebfd83","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"UBERMORGEN, The D1ck #0301 (Red Velvet), 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7470e0addc2d9239196ad401b6160f4c9ccf1797-1000x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7470e0addc2d9239196ad401b6160f4c9ccf1797-1000x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"921bc622d219","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"286e3a134804","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4147f5655ef50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you understand the resentment against NFTs from net artists and media artists?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5f75ada00370","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"30de810b6aeb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"UBERMORGEN: In our idiocracy, this was to be expected. The resistance of young conservative artists and students was a bit hard to grasp, though. 'Be Soft!'"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2df6757ffda","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cbfa182bf2f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"(UBERMORGEN Slogan 65, 2009). We are basically always happy that people have strong feelings about stuff they probably don't understand. This is very modern these days. Good for you: being modern can also be achieved by just saying no."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"865b0f0dca29","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"80bdf4cb29b1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a8dd0d42-67cd-49b5-a603-928393a9b20b","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"739c3389f9cc","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"f9ef2b9ff2e9","_type":"teaserItem","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-95ed8174713abb6d28152b300819cc8f339288d3-3228x1796-png","_type":"reference"}},"link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8363255365898","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"}],"publishingDate":"2023-12-12T09:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"lizvlx and Luzius Bernhard found each other in a basement in Vienna in 1994 and have started working together as an artist duo without clear responsibilities. They call themselves 'free floating radicals'. They are neither scared of being held responsible for their actions that challenge institutions and authorities, nor do they fear not being accepted by the art world. UBERMORGEN keep creating work for future audiences while the Internet around them changes at rapid speed. The Internet is changing, so their art is changing. From websites to NFTs, from cats to dicks.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, UBERMORGEN discuss the beginning of their career, early net.art, fishers and rods, and the commodification of digital assets.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"ubermorgen-free-floating-radicals"},"store":null,"subtitle":"NET.ART AND VIDEO GAMES","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-97a261c7bba53fcf7e800ab846e2ab633eb2b9a2-878x697-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"UBERMORGEN: FREE FLOATING RADICALS"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"f8551a0e6e11","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-04-19T15:37:15Z","_id":"7d05e1bd-a3b7-446a-97a0-6b668f3d8a16","_rev":"eMFDPPki413mM4tBMJE6Nn","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-07-15T21:37:57Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-aa43ac138cc5adad709cfbccd027e085f41eb90d-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"e84c6059167e","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"2c8b982f310e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"23e97fe6b5960","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"After decades of working in photography, acclaimed artist Phillip Toledano tried something new and started creating images with AI. Hooked by the technology and the endless possibilities it comes with, Toledano can't stop challenging himself artistically and the viewer intellectually. In his first AI series titled ANOTHER AMERICA, he reflects on a world that doesn't seem to make sense any more. Toledano's AI creations fill an empty spot in the world of post-photography and make the artist consider cutting back on conventional photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"19ae4670ea6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ff6db50d57180","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Toledano discusses his experiences and thoughts about artificial intelligence and photography. \n\n"},{"_key":"896927557466","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Phillip Toledano and I met in 2015, when his solo exhibition opened at the Deichtorhallen Hamburg on the occasion of the Triennial of Photography. I was touched by the exhibition because he openly reflects fears and experiences all of us share: the death of parents, an uncertain future, and the challenges of aging."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e9c6f514d266","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ee1b3aed580","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\nOver the years, Phil and I stayed in touch via Instagram, where he shared stories about his life and work. This is also where I learned that he started creating images in collaboration with AI. Honestly, I was impressed and kept going back to his Instagram to see if he kept going. He did. After a week of thinking about whether I should get in touch with him to see if he'd be interested in showing the project as part of the exhibition ALGORITHMIC EMPATHY. THE PROMISES OF AI, I just did it. The worst that could have happened is that he would have said no. He said yes, and both of us immediately started discussing the possibilities of AI and NFTs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8f3dfdade554","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5380c5c5b9e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"43557b8cecf80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Phil, you and I met in 2015, when your solo exhibition was on view at the Deichtorhallen Hamburg. You presented immensely touching works such as MAYBE and DAYS WITH YOUR FATHER. You imagined what your future could hold and faced the existential fear of aging. And over the course of three years, you documented your father’s struggle with dementia. A couple of weeks ago, I saw that you had started creating work with AI. I was surprised because I had this picture of you in my head working with a camera. How is it for you working with AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"264b782c6467","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b79a073e564c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Phillip Toledano: It’s quite possibly the most liberating thing I’ve experienced. Before, my ideas were constrained by practical limitations: money, time, or relying on other people to help me realize them. But AI is boundless. It’s a mirror to the imagination. So it’s as good as your imagination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f22455e4878d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"DAYS WITH MY FATHER.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c54ae422598eb49485e6098d6ab4e3fe46a1ba63-1500x1126-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c54ae422598eb49485e6098d6ab4e3fe46a1ba63-1500x1126-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"6b0ce0b882d3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1f1e827c7ed6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a716b7758bcb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why did you start working with AI? Out of curiosity?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"46a050212551","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7db834d21c8f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: I’ve always been interested in technology. Oddly, so much of what I was seeing wasn’t very good. So I wondered if I might be able to create something interesting. It was sort of a challenge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9b95ef17b27f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8be3f6b719ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6028f579190e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you know you were an artist? Will AI change what it means to be an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"085dc484c531","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cff15e734d730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: I guess since I was a child. I was always making things. My father was a painter and a sculptor, so I grew up around art. I spent a decade or so working in advertising before I finally found the courage to be an artist. Unless AI starts coming up with ideas on its own (which seems likely at some point!), then I don’t think it will change what it means to be an artist. But it might allow people a means of expressing their ideas that they’ve never had before."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3391eff84168","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"24139e72eac4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b23b9d196dd90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Based on your, let‘s say, Instagram output of new work, AI seems to have inspired you. Is this the case, or has AI just made your life as an artist easier? You basically don‘t have to leave the house anymore to create any image you like."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b5cc91202cce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"efc1cf4132f60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: Hahaha! Well, it’s a bit of both. I finally have an outlet for all my ideas. AND I don’t have to leave the house! I do find it very inspiring. I’d say I spend five or six hours a day creating images."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"03cac7e745f3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"MICHAEL from A NEW KIND OF BEAUTY, 2009.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fcf75a8f22446ff903636d6b4c9da2c94119d8f5-750x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fcf75a8f22446ff903636d6b4c9da2c94119d8f5-750x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"8425fba4b982","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"daf2232fdc47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6795ffcb2f9b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you now realize previously unrealized projects?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4352ab39ef2d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05eb2f60d8540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: No, so far everything I’ve made has been new ideas. Each image I make is based on an idea or an image that materializes in my mind at an odd moment. Then I usually spend a few hours trying to get something I like, and THEN I spend the next couple of hours nudging and fiddling to make small variations, additions, and substitutions to see where else I can go. It’s often a slightly frustrating journey, but the results usually make me happy."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cfcd2b02e782","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"35a828720bce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6f2241d78d80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In your older work, you yourself are in the center. You challenge the viewer emotionally by dealing with universal topics such as birth and death, aging, and dying. I have the impression that you challenge the viewer intellectually with your AI work. Would you agree?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"23e480d06d0e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9eb4f324647b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: My past work has been both extremely personal and extremely political. I would hope that whatever I make, using whatever techniques, would always challenge the viewer to think and feel something new."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4fb50b86541d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"PHILSCAPE.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-32bdc91bb2818a71b58014b8789bf6bf1f571406-1200x900-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-32bdc91bb2818a71b58014b8789bf6bf1f571406-1200x900-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"0d4869182d92","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c6786c14ea60","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ea41bcf53e10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your project, ANOTHER AMERICA, is a reflection of a world that doesn’t quite seem to make sense any more. Can art help overcome fears?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f46b0d50dc4d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"91de5d3cad340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: I do believe that when the intangible becomes tangible, it becomes less frightening."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3487f451ec68","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ffbdcbfa2e47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"156dba62d0820","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you approach working on ANOTHER AMERICA? Did you have a storyline in mind as with your previous projects?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4e793e7c2d34","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b735853a10450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: There is no real storyline. I’m just following a path I can’t quite see beyond the next image."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2291ddddb081","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"ANOTHER AMERICA, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3d035b734bc8b89a5014f4dc52fee83bbaef09d8-1000x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3d035b734bc8b89a5014f4dc52fee83bbaef09d8-1000x1000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"81744cf669d8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"54c17c5a821d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8fe1926d31520","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why are the images of ANOTHER AMERICA set in the 1940s and 1950s?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5506d60c82ff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c7e6943a23a30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: That era was a time when the image was, for the most part, always considered the truth. And because we’ve all seen imagery from that time period, it has a certain familiarity. So when strange things are happening in a familiar setting, it becomes all the more strange. Just like our world today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1b42f7c547a0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4fe908bfff47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3f171e89912e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Photography was rejected. The Internet was rejected. Augmented reality, virtual reality, and NFTs—basically all new technologies are rejected in the beginning. Why don‘t we learn from history? That would very likely save us a lot of time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ff8aec45d166","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2d6b5af25eba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: New things are usually rejected initially. Just think about the novel in the 18th century."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2e5f62f51f4d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"869d3289f2a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4316bc1d3c780","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Today‘s news: \"An artist declined an award at a prominent photography contest because he had submitted an AI-generated work, proving, he said, that the competition couldn’t deal with art made by that means. The contest’s organizers, in turn, said they didn’t know the extent to which the work utilized AI.\" How do you feel about this incident as a photographer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b14774b32f43","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"47e0bb2b28b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: I think the contemporary photography world is going to have to come to grips with AI in very short order. So I think it’s great that he did that. It’s going to force us all to talk about it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6051708a174d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e68b40ba2fdb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d5eb9b406280","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: This incident shows that we seem to struggle to keep up with AI. What could be a solution?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"59f70b451b49","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"179249b23d520","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: AI is a fast-moving river. We just have to jump in and let the current take us."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ae1ff35ba393","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"SOCIALITE.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1d2b5019a70fc2ad02107721c1be906dc26454b5-1000x750-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1d2b5019a70fc2ad02107721c1be906dc26454b5-1000x750-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"1da218838a90","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d57c1c49d8a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"52dc463cd4390","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Which term do you use to describe your work created in collaboration with AI? Photography? Post-photography? AI art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d3471957ffde","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c264ecbcf8a30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: I think it needs a new word, but I’m not sure what that is. It’s not photography, but image-making, but with someone’s (AI's) voice in your ear."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"916863cc0f38","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a6dbc904e036","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a0c090296b90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Will you keep taking photos with a camera?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b1a2b7a494bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8dad7ece171b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"PT: I have to say, for the kind of work I like, photography now seems slightly dull."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bd064f069801","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"3e12bb221018","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3e12bb2210180","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Phillip Toledano"},{"_key":"77cadf541bcd","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" (b. 1968) is a British photographer living and working in New York City. As an artist, he works across mediums from photography to installation. His conceptual themes are primarily socio-political. Toledano has three monographs published on his artistic practice, with the most recent, Days With My Father, being received to critical acclaim."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2377449a92cd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2377449a92cd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Toledano considers himself a conceptual artist: Everything starts with an idea, and the idea determines the execution. Consequently, his work varies in medium, ranging from photography to installation, sculpture, painting, and video."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b5036ab9c75e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be15e98e5555","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"Phillip Toledano is part of the exhibition "},{"_key":"a9400f127342","_type":"span","marks":["em","strong","7029b015510c"],"text":"ALGORITHMIC EMPATHY. THE PROMISES OF AI"},{"_key":"bc60e0514e1f","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":" presented at the gallery in Berlin in collaboration with VerticalCrypto Art, 18-23 April, 2023."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"7029b015510c","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/exhibitions/algorithmic-empathy"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"55ef703b470f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be2f2957b94a","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"UPCOMING NFT DROP:"},{"_key":"9e5ca144129d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" ANOTHER AMERICA by Phillip Toledano will be released as part of "},{"_key":"2df5ea7747e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"ALGORITHMIC EMPATHY. THE PROMISES OF AI"},{"_key":"fc0d70f9a386","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" on "},{"_key":"19f4c75b246c","_type":"span","marks":["417495fcc565"],"text":"verticalcrypto.art"},{"_key":"4e6858d53099","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". The date will be announced soon. Inquire about the work via email to nfts@expanded.art."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"417495fcc565","_type":"link","href":"https://www.verticalcrypto.art/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"df80d0809bde","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"5c5476b7079f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"d84eadfc-4738-4017-9e31-7db30a77a1d1","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"df807e36e2de","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"1e6783eb676c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-498303009034","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"c6937138e0b9","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"4e700249af30","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"2b180587-6ee3-449d-9caa-1735794ca379","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"859dc32f9c4c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e640ffbe-945a-4cd5-bdd3-b9f40df63c89","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-04-20T07:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"After decades of working in photography, acclaimed artist Phillip Toledano tried something new and started creating images with AI. Hooked by the technology and the endless possibilities it comes with, Toledano can't stop challenging himself artistically and the viewer intellectually. In his first AI series titled ANOTHER AMERICA, he reflects on a world that doesn't seem to make sense any more. Toledano's AI creations fill an empty spot in the world of post-photography and make the artist consider cutting back on conventional photography.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Toledano discusses his experiences and thoughts about artificial intelligence and photography. ","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"phillip-toledano-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"PHOTOGRAPHY AND AI","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6be07977914f20330d6747fdd25d620a8217cec0-3000x3000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"PHILLIP TOLEDANO: \"AI IS A MIRROR TO THE IMAGINATION\""},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"12f21a79b63d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-05-27T16:16:36Z","_id":"5df7e50d-9301-4a7c-aed5-3f8ef602c6f6","_rev":"gCOgyMqD3hiPHKLzDcTmr6","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T14:41:52Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-53d71054895ca4c4887b1ce214df4a28e96d637a-1920x1081-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"54da821020b8","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"2804eebb1773","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ec7e33323140","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"William Latham gained recognition as a pioneering figure in generative art with his MUTATOR evolutionary art, developed at IBM during the late 1980s and early 1990s. His creations, characterized by organic, frequently serpentine shapes, are generated using his unique \"alternative evolutionary software system\" (created in collaboration with Stephen Todd and their team). This software allows Latham to select and crossbreed 3D forms that transcend the boundaries of human imagination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"402d5f3992ae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4e4ee6a2fb40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Latham's artistic focus revolves around utilizing evolutionary processes to create art, embodying the concept of the \"artist as gardener.\" This concept originated during his time as a Henry Moore Scholar at the Royal College of Art in the early 1980s, where he first developed his FormSynth drawings and etchings. These early works served as a foundation for his later Mutator creations.\n\nUpon departing from IBM in the mid-1990s, Latham established a studio in Soho and transitioned into the realm of rave music. His organic art quickly garnered a significant following within the emerging rave and cyberculture community. Subsequently, after three years, he and his team of approximately 70 individuals shifted their focus to game development, collaborating with industry giants like Warner Bros. and Universal Studios. In 2002, they achieved success with the creation of THE THING, a popular game based on the John Carpenter movie that prominently featured Latham's signature organic style.\n\nIn 2007, Latham made a career shift away from entertainment and assumed the role of a Professor of Computer Art at Goldsmiths. It was here that he reignited his creative partnership with IBM mathematician and programmer Stephen Todd. Together, they revitalized and expanded their original Mutator code, advancing the technology into the realm of virtual reality (VR). This endeavor resulted in the creation of innovative organic immersive experiences for the public. Their VR projects have been featured in traveling exhibitions across various countries, including China, Japan, Peru, Belgium, and the UK.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier and Noah Bolanowski, William Latham discusses his concept of the artist as a gardener and the influence of gardening on his art, organic and evolutionary art, and the past, present, and future of digital art and AI. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f45d86cc2447","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b0bdf5a520f9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7fb3c513048e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: William, do you enjoy gardening?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cc4ba64e489d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"09dccfdcb5d00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"William Latham: I grew up in the heart of the English countryside in a small village called Blewbury, which is situated between Oxford and Reading on the Berkshire Downs. It was an unusual environment because the Harwell Atomic Research Centre was located just over the hill, about 3 miles away. While the area where I grew up was very rural, the village was home to a community of scientists, somewhat resembling Los Alamos in the USA."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0c6274854b26","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5b2a3bba0df","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The region boasts an interesting topography, featuring several natural springs and streams bordered by watercress beds. I certainly spent a significant portion of my childhood outdoors, constructing dens and playing in the streams. Engaging in traditional gardening activities is probably not my strong suit. In fact, I consider myself a rather lazy gardener, which isn't necessarily a drawback these days, as I can frame it as 'rewilding'."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8e85954f6233f1b6517a6257b82fa397","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Mirror Cube #8: Heavenly Mirror Cube, 2022. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-43377e90dd28f4bbe830a7306b7e9a4e87f1ffeb-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-43377e90dd28f4bbe830a7306b7e9a4e87f1ffeb-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"b41fcde17480","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3108164f31d1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6cfc6395de1b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I asked this question because you referred to yourself as an \"artist gardener.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ab6b06ef6532","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be355b26becc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL"},{"_key":"be355b26becc1","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":": "},{"_key":"1695f1003c67","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In many ways, in describing my role as a gardener, I was alluding to Mendel, who established the foundation for modern genetics by cultivating and breeding pea plants. Similar to Mendel, I pick and breed, although in my case, it is not for scientific research but rather as a gardener striving for a specific look or quality. I apply my rather eclectic aesthetic to the evolutionary process that I have initiated."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3669f92bfb7e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8cc5439983f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"625c301a81500","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you navigate the balance between drawing inspiration from gardening and guiding the evolution of your organic forms in MUTATOR?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8abdd8e88a6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5072fae5aee80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: In line with this gardening concept, I have drawn inspiration throughout my career from the 19th-century artist and craftsman William Morris and his renowned cottage garden teeming with wildflowers. When seeking inspiration, Morris would venture into the garden, select a specific flower, such as a Scottish thistle head or any other that caught his eye at the time, bring it into his studio at home, and draw it from the most appealing angle (sometimes adding other flowers) onto a wood block. He would then use the technique of \"industrial repeat,\" printing it numerous times on fabric or paper, creating an interwoven pattern of flowers."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b24c6cf32d26","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"703d44f1928d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I consider MUTATOR, with its vast range of forms, as my equivalent to his cottage garden—my MUTATOR GARDEN, where I go and pick forms on my computer screen. Similarly to Morris, I extract what I find aesthetically pleasing and then develop content based on that form. Though, unlike William Morris, I can steer the evolution of my organic forms."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8dfaab0480de7260337861c15c4bf58d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham drawing a FormSynth Drawing in 1985.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-580ba6a29aa5b69ff8385070b5cb3b7e41c88ebd-1410x1241-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"b4797ef36559","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5b6aeefca412","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f022eb5bb110","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Have artists like William Morris also influenced your drawing style?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2f9a025257dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cddf90eb04ec","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: Although the drawing style in my INFINITY B&W series was partly inspired by electron microscopy, Stephen and I have dedicated considerable effort to enhancing line quality and incorporating master engraving effects. We have drawn upon techniques from Dürer’s etchings, as well as from William Morris and other engravers from the nineteenth and twentieth centuries. For instance, we have adopted the practice of adding white edging to solid lines to enhance the drawing's quality and visual clarity. Not unlike Morris's use of industrial repeat to replicate a sketch of a thistle or another form, we utilize an infinity room to multiply the images and essentially \"infinitize\" the form."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ac3539035939","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6cbdd3842b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In my earlier IBM MUTATOR works from the late 1980s onwards, a significant influence was the austere quality evident in Karl Blossfeldt’s photographs of hedgerow flowers (a technique later employed by Mapplethorpe in his studio photographs of lilies). As in these works, my forms were often presented against a black background with a single light source, creating shadows and high resolution. However, my 3D MUTATOR forms distinctly differ in that they do not exist in the physical realm, leading us to often refer to them as \"ghosts of sculptures.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0e64a14a2af3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"90952caaf97a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Continuing with William Morris as a point of reference, a whole host of references to forms and patterns have made their way into my work as aesthetic drivers when breeding, such as selecting forms that have elements of paisley or fleur de lys. This influence of nature and gardening can be found in my MUTATOR pumpkin forms from 1988 onwards, including cut pumpkins inspired by Halloween, which I celebrate. Interestingly, these can be connected to my FANTASY VIRUS forms developed decades later, with the viruses being quite spherical and the dissection recalling the cutting open of the pumpkins."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3d8e759eaaf1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8c6920bb7e140","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And, of course, referencing Morris one last time, the MIRROR CUBE series I’ve presented at EXPANDED.ART has strong floral overtones."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"66d275418bd5eed3b6518ef76734d859","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Fantasy Virus, 2020.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-247fe1a1dbd101f81518b7ea4be039dab1670527-1024x1145-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"c3b3b1cd4260","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"76447d9f8c39","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"df78494059fe0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you get from drawing by hand to working with computers that create biological forms? In the late 1980s and early 1990s, at IBM's UK Scientific Centre, you pioneered the use of algorithms to create computer graphics that mimic biological processes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1fa9e318ffc9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"321b5a6ac39c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: In 1983, while still a postgraduate student at The Royal College of Art, I began developing my rule-based evolutionary drawings known as FormSynth. These drawings were elaborate and extensive, featuring primitive forms such as cones, cubes, spheres, toruses, pyramids, ellipsoids, and dodecahedrons that underwent various shape-changing operations from a predefined list of twelve operations. These operations included actions like beak, bulk, stretch, scoop, twist, slice, clone, grow, growth pod, tendril extend, add, subtract, and marry. The final stages of the process involved imagining the result and then drawing it. These drawings depicted multiple generations of forms, each generation reflecting the impact of the selected operation, and some of them spanned up to 10 meters in length."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c54642175b57","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d0124866f34f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I presented these large drawings during my initial interview at the IBM UK Scientific Centre in Winchester, UK. They showed interest in the operator rules and their connection with their development of a new language called ESME (Extensible Solid Model Editor). Interestingly, ESME eventually served as the programming language in which MUTATOR was first programmed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c23091b15dff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d2cac5c94d450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"FormSynth served as the foundation and guiding principle for all my subsequent evolutionary artwork. While FormSynth has evolved over time, its core philosophy of infinite evolution has remained constant. Notably, there has been a recent resurgence of interest in these early hand-drawn images, with the Centre Pompidou acquiring four pieces for their collection and also the Victoria and Albert Museum in London."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a6abed1e3831eb03f35577a63812684f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, FormSynth Drawing: The Empire of Form (detail). Evolutionary Rule-Based Hand Drawing, 1985-86.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7002c4efac5345d2e393ad57641465bef9900b3d-1280x875-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7002c4efac5345d2e393ad57641465bef9900b3d-1280x875-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"4a2938261f7c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2310955e8e0f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ae4fe4cc2c20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Let’s take a step back. When did you know you wanted to be an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5848d8e94473","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9823cd939f540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: I knew that by the time I was seven years old. I think it was partly influenced by the garish clothes with bold patterns that people wore in English villages in the late 1960s. As my mother was a musician and my father a chemist, I was also surrounded by the mysterious symbols of musical notation, molecular graphics, and mathematical equations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"de0ff943efe9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fca46a022e3d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"996ca107654a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did you draw a lot as a kid?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dc87f974d5cd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"35e574a7e3ab0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: I drew a lot as a kid. Some of my drawings from that time are not that far from my MUTATOR images. Even back then, I drew huge patterns incorporating fleur de lys and other iconic shapes, really not that different from the more decorative of my new MUTATOR INFINITY (black and white) drawings."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f69248f93098","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"449475167f700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Below is my PURPLE COCKEREL drawing from 1969, when I was eight. I started out by drawing a pattern, then chased the content I saw emerging from it, and that led to the shape of the cockerel."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3d99ba3464938d433618b1364b0530bf","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Purple Cockerel, 1969.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0cda3243a32a02968f07a076d7f85ab2703ccb6f-1024x1120-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"b04ae99caa43","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08f136f8253d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f1bdaf7a797b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you first get in touch with computers?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a80210a92c36","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"075977616bbe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: While I was a student at Ruskin College, Oxford University, I gained some experience with Fortran 77 and Benson Plotters. Then, I was taken on by computer artist Paul Brown at Middlesex Polytechnic, London, to do some part-time teaching and worked with Mike King using the Picasso System developed by John Vince and Gareth Edward."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cfbb8174f1fb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6ef89d3d0f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"After that, while pursuing a PhD at the Royal College of Art, I studied programming at Imperial College. At the RCA, my supervisor, John Lansdown, who was head of the Computer Arts Society and famous for his introductory spacecraft graphics to the ALIEN movie, encouraged me to harness the power of computers for my FormSynth rule-based drawings. Keith Critchlow, the conceptual artist and author of books such as THE HIDDEN GEOMETRY OF FLOWERS, encouraged me not to. I would certainly have had a very different career if I had followed his advice."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"67e15df9fb54","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7df364d639ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So it was these influences and mentors that helped me realize the potential for collaboration between the artist and the computer."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e29027fd5b49","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c00acc0c0f44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ceb0e64ad3d70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Noah Bolanowksi: Can you expand on how your traditional art background influenced you to explore computing from a creative perspective? Do you feel it influenced the creative output you were producing at the time?\n\nIn ART AND COMPUTER from 1990, you discuss your exposure to traditional art mediums while attending the Royal College of Art, as well as your influential exposure to mechanized or chemical processes of art replication.\n\n\"I initially trained in fine art and produced paintings, sculptures, and prints for a number of years before working with computers. It was here in the printmaking department at the Royal College of Art where I first became interested in the use of mechanized reproduction of images.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9d9ab427c85e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"58f485d727bf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: I should start by saying that my exploration of computing has always been solely from a creative perspective. I work in a computing department (at Goldsmiths University, London), but still on the art side, and while my MUTATOR software has in recent years been adapted and applied to scientific research and exploration, my own input is always on the creative rather than the technical side."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"139219d3c2c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01a3a1a97d580","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But to answer your question more fully about my trajectory from traditional to digital art, I started oil painting when I was 13 and tried out lots of styles, producing works in the style of the Impressionists, of Mirò, or in the style of Picasso. Then, I was fortunate enough to study at the Ruskin School of Art, Oxford, where I had three full years of quite traditional fine art training from excellent teachers (such as Kenneth Martin and Anthony Caro), starting off with painting, then picking up other fine-art skills such as print making."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8e91ee4834cf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cfd3a66aca910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"While at the Ruskin, my work became heavily influenced by Russian constructivism with its geometric abstraction and dynamic organization of form, and I was very interested in dance choreography, which I tried to capture in geometric compositions with swirling circles."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5b7aee98c8e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ddf54f4e64770","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"From the Ruskin, I went to the Royal College of Art (RCA), London, where I had another three years of solid fine art training and was taught by Eduardo Paolozzi, Patrick Heron, Terry Frost, and Paul Huxley. While at the Ruskin, I became interested in sculpture as well. And at the RCA, my interest in sculpture grew further. I was a Henry Moore scholar, and this involved actually being mentored by Henry Moore."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7593ce5074b0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"58073d0752220","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But at the same time, I was taking my first steps in working with computers and began a PhD thesis under the computer graphics pioneer, John Lansdown. I was based in the Royal College painting studio behind the Victoria and Albert Museum and close to the Natural History Museum (where I spent a lot of time), but I was also working in the sculpture department, making modular sculptures and making geometric animated films in the animation department. So it was an exciting time, and although traditional in one sense, it also felt quite cutting-edge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b9c5cd611dac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aeec6134c2670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This big block of fine art training meant that I did not train as a conventional computer programmer, and whatever programming skills I did gain were piecemeal. However, I had access to some very bright programmers and mathematicians (the first of whom was Mike King at the RCA), and this work with software engineers, which in a way reminded me of the collaboration in a print studio with print-making technicians, taught me how to collaborate. On the one hand, this has resulted in a reliance on my part on software engineers. On the other hand, over the years, working with these extremely brilliant mathematicians and software engineers has allowed me to push the scope and quality of my \"mutations\" far beyond what I could have achieved as a creative working alone, even if I had had more robust technical training."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"447717f4663f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"88738948a14a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The whole structure of the way I work is collaborative and involves a dynamic exchange of ideas. My early interest in the Renaissance meant that I had already taken on board the idea of artists, mathematicians, and technicians working together, centered on the rules of perspective. And when I left the RCA for IBM’s UK Scientific Centre in Winchester, then a hive of pioneering cross-disciplinary computer visualization work, I found myself in exactly this kind of Renaissance situation, working with Stephen Todd and Peter Quarendon. My love of Dutch still life painting strongly influenced the way Stephen and I developed and used the WINSOM CSG Modeler at IBM to render images with dramatic lighting, shadows, and surface qualities, and ultimately this also fed back into the software, which had been originally created as a science visualization tool."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0fb83dc503c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"923f562a69610","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So, to return to your question, gaining so much knowledge of art became a springboard to do something new."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c596b4e3121e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham working in the main Graphics and Visualisation Lab at The IBM UK Scientific Centre, Winchester in 1989.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-af9e48666bcac960bd663be49dc6341c41ecfb5d-2180x1460-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-af9e48666bcac960bd663be49dc6341c41ecfb5d-2180x1460-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"23719159af0b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c18c84db73c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f53b9f94ea1d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who influenced you and shaped your path during your time at the RCA?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"74f236db9b54","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"90fd8cf695bd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: There were many influences pointing me towards this path. Of my teachers at the RCA mentioned above, Eduardo Paolozzi, in particular, was a major influence on me with his preoccupation with machines and engineering. Then there was Crichlow with his geometry of nature and, of course, John Lansdowne’s wonderful computer graphics work. I read Mandelbrot, whom I met in later years, as a student and found his work on fractals incredibly exciting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a70b2001b1f0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"366cf134e42b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And of course, the whole idea of evolution, on which I became so focused during that period in a sense, invited the use of computers. From 1983 onwards, I worked on the FormSynth rule-based evolutionary drawings I described in detail earlier. They were extremely labor-intensive, and at the time they looked incredibly detailed, but of course, once I moved on to computers, the level of detail that could now be achieved was exponentially greater. Though, strangely enough, I still have people telling me that my hand-drawn works are their favorites!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ce9a4155657d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d4f2e5e525ed0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"To put this transition to computing in the context of my personal situation during my RCA period, I was producing these obsessive FormSynth drawings in biro on paper while my friends were producing paintings that were heavily influenced by Baselitz, Kiefer, and Julien Schnabel, and I felt like the odd one out—and that was even before I got into computing!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"62fb3db47a74","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05262bca391a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Another important point for me in this trajectory towards computers was that at art school I had learned and loved using three-point perspective derived from the Italian painter and mathematician Paolo Uccello, and, in a sense, although I was not aware of it at the time, this was also putting me on a track that led to computer graphics. When I embarked on FormSynth, I had to put this use of three-point perspective to one side, which was a radical move for me at that point, as it had become my signature style. But the FormSynth drawings were already so detailed and complex that there was no way I could have incorporated a three-point perspective into them. This was a limitation in the drawings that was immediately overcome once I took my ideas to computing, as the computer handles all that geometry with ease, so that allowed me to revert to my style of choice and preoccupation with 3D forms."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8b0b0d75641b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b01f1ff28cf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Overall, I would say that my digital work was not so much influenced by my earlier traditional art work but rather a continuation of it. My core ideas preceded my engagement with software, but computers allowed me to overcome the limits I had come up against in traditional art forms and also the limits of the human brain."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d43a83b2784e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5289b804b3e7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cb05fe35c0a70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: Looking back from several decades into the future, do you have any reflections on how the digital artists of your era, many of whom had a background in art education, approached this emerging medium uniquely?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c9bff4ed8bfc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d4096ca2b570","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: The first generation of computer artists, we could say—many of the trailblazers came from a fine arts background. Vera Molnar was a painter and studied art history and aesthetics. Lillian Schwartz also started out working with physical media. By the late 1960s, they were both working with computers. Frieder Nake was a computer scientist."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ecca724600ea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"42f8e07b8ba6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"One of the distinguishing features of my generation (the second) was the growth of programmer artists, people like Karl Sims, who, in the tradition of Nake, were computer programmers who produced technical demonstrations with high artistic quality. Craig Reynolds, Ken Musgrave, and Ken Perlin were similarly primarily computing experts who produced striking and often beautiful visuals. So their trajectory was really the opposite of mine—their art grew out of technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0cba36ac06d2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"befdef2b86710","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In addition to the traditional art references you mention, another big influence on computer art was science fiction imagery (in fact, this linking of computer art and sci-fi has been there from the outset and persists even today). For example, Edward Emshwiller, who created the seminal film SUNSTONE in 1979, was a science fiction illustrator."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e58d99c3f0c1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1dd9bf1ef7630","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And this is also an interesting point in relation to your question about having a traditional art background: many of the people who went into computer art had studied art extensively but had been considered illustrators rather than artists. Computer graphics was an open forum; there was no snobbery among those working in this new medium."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"00b568c31b33","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ca3dafbfcada","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"08e2765bc7250","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: Was science fiction where you first encountered Herbert W. Franke? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"11d4ee885902","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"efe2daa96dc50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: Although I was aware that Herbert Franke was a science fiction author, I knew him in the context of his famous COMPUTER GRAPHICS book (1985), a seminal book I read and reread. It was regarded as a bible for anyone interested in this area. I still vividly recall my excitement upon first reading it. His book played a key role in influencing me to go into computer graphics at the very start. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8327a0dd5780","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"53e2f78fa0a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We had a lively correspondence at one point, though sadly, I never met him in person."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"eb68664223c3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Gold Rib Pump, 1989, IBM, Cibachrome.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b0769fc6e74f2f37263fa8739f2f87c3f69c9f54-1024x682-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"4c4043b85d71","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"239fa94bef33","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c703e025b41b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: Do you feel artists natively approaching the digital medium today could (or should) benefit from familiarizing themselves with the larger canon of art history?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1556882d3960","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f05b5e326587","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: I would strongly encourage digital artists starting out today to familiarize themselves with art history (if they have not already done so, of course). At Goldsmiths University, I run an art history course for postgraduates studying game design, and I see how immensely the students’ work benefits from this, and incidentally, how it often gives them a competitive edge when they look for work afterwards. So, this must apply all the more to someone setting out as an artist."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"384507df1a28","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05ddb4f1228f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As regards the canon, this should not be seen in any narrow or prescriptive way. One big advantage people have today is their access to artists of the past who either never received any recognition despite deserving it or were recognized but quickly forgotten and so were not included in this list handed down from generation to generation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d5ef54e0a75a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c1c3f24f4ad0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On this same question, I should also mention that MidJourney and similar apps are notably weighted towards the surreal. While my work is obviously also very much influenced by the Surrealists, I am nervous about this weighting. About what is left out (and potentially in danger of being forgotten), but also about the sort of flattening effect this may produce. The surreal relies on surprise and a jarring effect, but without a broader visual art context within which it can be evaluated or from which it can be experienced, it can quickly become empty and boring. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"efa1dd9eb4d5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8e3fede214e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc4266b757c70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: You’ve held the title of Professor of Computing at Goldsmiths, University of London, since 2007, bearing witness to a plethora of rapid innovations in the technology itself. Even decades before that, you were exploring computational practices creatively at the dawn of the computer age, innovating and influencing generations of artists to follow you."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"12f4252aa8b0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6df4924b6adf0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Moving into the era of quantum computing and AI, what insights do you have for creatives looking to explore that frontier in a similar capacity? Do you have any words of wisdom for creatives producing art at the dawn of quantum/AI from your experience as a creative at the dawn of computing?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1e4b43ce8e63","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f5d2b7c196c90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: I should start by saying that the MUTATOR work didn’t strictly speaking get underway at the dawn of computing, since there was that whole first and second generation that I mentioned earlier. However, I got into digital art just before a huge technological explosion, which in some ways is comparable to the AI situation today."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f687d7d91ff3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec02e40548370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"By the early 1990s, PCs had become available, the Internet was taking off, etc. And for me, everything changed. The new cyberculture led to an explosion of interest in my work. Computer graphics had suddenly become more mainstream, and my images were all over the place. In the space of a few years, I’d gone from being a sort of outsider to finding myself at the heart of things. Of course, I was still largely shunned by the art world due to its deep suspicion of computers at that time. But Warner Bros. sought me out to make an interactive art package for PC in the style of my organic art; I designed book covers for some of the sci-fi bestsellers of the time; I had all kinds of bands knocking at my door to commission me to produce album covers; rave concerts were using my visuals; and in fact, I ended up doing a lot of visuals for concerts, for the band The Shamen in particular, and even directed some music videos for them. I also moved into computer games."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2a258563ed9c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea05bdbd561e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So I suppose the first bit of advice, if you like, though it’s probably applicable to creatives at any point in history, not just now, is that it’s worth sticking to your vision, and you may well find the world 'catching up with you' as it were. But the second point, on the basis of my own experience, is that obviously, when you get that approval and popularity, it’s a positive, but it entails risks of its own, as I was increasingly drawn into the world of entertainment. In fact, I spent ten years in the gaming industry. This was not all lost time by any means, and my gaming experience proved invaluable once I returned to academia and was able to start making art again, as I applied some of that gaming knowledge to making my VR art experiences. But overall, it was a setback in terms of what I could have been doing over that decade had I been able to focus on my art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0578bf0b3852","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6bf02ed0c1620","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the other hand, I have been lucky in that, after a relatively long hiatus, the same sort of cultural alignment that I experienced in the 1990s with cyberculture has reoccurred now. My VR immersive experiences proved to be in tune with the public’s fascination with VR, and indeed, MUTATOR, as a form of AI, is in sync with the AI/machine learning movement. I myself am looking with interest in quantum and AI developments to see how Stephen and I might be able to incorporate them into my work. But we’re at an early stage with that, so I don’t have anything concrete to say about it. We’ve been incorporating a lot of physics into our work, like the look of electron microscopy, which has yielded great results in the latest work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c9eca6075332","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"557996af7b640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"One major difference between someone starting out when I did—and of course, I was very young, not even out of university yet by the time I’d formulated many of my core ideas—is that there was really zero encouragement from the art world; you were treated almost like a pariah. And, of course, that’s all changed. But now, on the other hand, there’s enormous pressure from the fact that so many artists are entering this space and also that casual users of software like MidJourney and Dall-E are able to produce visually interesting results. How to negotiate this suddenly very crowded landscape—with or without Quantum—is the big challenge for a creative now."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5565304f48ac","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"dd82a265e2dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3bf31af8950d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: You’ve worked on a number of gaming titles in the past, from THE THING (2002) to SHAODWS OF THE DAMNED (2011), and a number of titles in between. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7f5f0a862c84","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"79b2dc1bbf5b","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"What sets MUTATOR apart as an art form, against the genre of evolutionary games like SPORE (2008)? Are there any evolutionary game titles that you feel not only honor MUTATOR but even offer their own evolutions on the concept?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5d133fe99f2d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b9c8c63fccdc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: One of the first evolutionary games was my own EVOLVA, developed with my team at Computer Artworks, which was published in 2000 and had a strong influence on the game you mention, SPORE. Although it’s now mainly restricted to the retro game audience, EVOLVA is still fondly remembered for its visuals and in particular for its opening movie, which sets up the action with a giant egg-like spore traveling through space and landing on a planet, which it immediately begins to take over. As its organic tendrils spread across the planet, it starts to create \"guardians,\" insect-like creatures that protect the mother plant and lay waste to the indigenous life forms."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"83d3b0c4b715","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"93b127af82e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Taking organic art into the game space was overall an interesting experience and taught me a lot about the irreconcilable differences between art and games—or at least between MUTATOR and its derivative games. The elements of surprise and wonder that had characterized the organic art were a good fit with the gaming experience in EVOLVA (and later, THE THING), which built on the bleakness and potential for horror that the original organic art contained with its epic and primeval quality. At the same time, it provided an outlet for the humor that is also a component of organic art, with its quirky forms."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d7e991b78185","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"39b0c146b07c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, I soon had the uncomfortable sense that the infinite world contained within my original organic art at IBM was shrinking. I’d already experienced the limitations of the Organic Art screensaver package, which gave users the illusion of being open-ended, whereas in reality we had put a lot of effort into fine-tuning it to make sure that whatever the user did would look good (i.e., partitioning off parts of the parameter space that contain unsatisfactory variants). The games proved far more restrictive again. The participation of a player within a tightly structured game did not at all satisfy me in my quest for open-ended interactivity within a viewer-driven art form."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"12fd9e7e1dab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3261a5f268fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the contrary, the importance of closure for a game player, which takes the form of winning, i.e., obtaining a clear marker of achievement, was taking me further down the road to a closed structure and away from the central concept of infinity in my art. I also became keenly aware of the irony whereby the player’s actions largely constituted destroying the EVOLVA organic world, which was in sharp contrast to my philosophical notion of the artist as a gardener. Ultimately, it was the structured and predictable nature of computer games and the lack of scope for experimentation in the games business that led me to the realization that the creative vision, which I had been able to develop at IBM, was being compromised."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cba7fa403394","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c40b630b57c50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This also answers the second part of your question. Given the nature of games, which we could describe as 'closed structures,' they are inherently not capable of evolving an open-ended, indeed infinite, system such as MUTATOR."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"45aa052f316e808ef79c3a41c9359e32","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Organic Art for Windows, CD, 1996.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ee43b9038231f46d9a9d5026f0915c7b3a895760-1920x1280-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ee43b9038231f46d9a9d5026f0915c7b3a895760-1920x1280-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"d02a3b39adf4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e9f29afd467e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2e49cde0c3ea0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: I feel that’s an aspect of digital art history that often goes unrealized—not only interest and acceptance of the medium, but the means of distribution to share these works prior to the internet. And how would you share your work prior to the internet? Was part of it done through CDs like the one pictured above?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5afe9e670583","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"724d77150d640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: That CD was for the screensaver package published by Warner Bros. My artworks were shared by traditional means—printing, exhibiting, and also using slides. At that time (late eighties or early nineties), a lot of magazines approached me for images, and I would be posting bundles of slides several times a week."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0c3162257551","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"256f09e50771","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"090b111f46260","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were the reactions to the ORGANIC ART CD back in the day? It says on the cover, \"a living screen saver.\" Today, calling digital art a screen saver isn’t considered a compliment. Your screen saver was very popular in the 1990s and was perceived as art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7dbf649234e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"21eb08ff3aea","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: In the 1990s, people were generally proud of their PCs and would leave them running, with screen savers being popular. Ours was the first to feature 3D graphics. Individuals would use the screen saver mode as a sort of running art gallery showcasing my organic art and the evolving scenes. While I was never fond of the term 'screen saver,' utilizing it in this way helped transform it into a mass-market product on an international scale, with the images becoming widely recognized across various audiences. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bcc0ec715c8f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"988ecce323d8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For instance, I recall meeting someone who operated a couple of garages; he mentioned having ORGANIC ART displayed on all the screens at his garages and also at home, both day and night. Despite not having a particular interest in art, he was a big fan of ORGANIC ART."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"920500cc5382","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ac9db54e3935","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d7094da190210","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: MUTATOR AI was one of the first artistic explorations that used evolutionary algorithms to generate complex, organic forms. While a relatively niche innovation at the time in 1992, the notion of leveraging algorithms to produce diverse and unique artworks based on set rules or inputs has come to receive wide popularity and appeal in the generative art genre of today.\n\nWhen you first started working with evolutionary algorithms to create art, did you anticipate that this method would become a foundational technique in the future of digital art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c97cb8afba4f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e71928a13c460","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: Absolutely not, since the art world, with a few exceptions, was insisting that it wasn’t art at all!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0bf72cec5707","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"05545d27d677","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c3034798d46","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain the MUTATOR software to someone who hasn't heard of it before?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"592cc3df3203","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56553436f7cc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: MUTATOR is the software that I use to generate artistic variants from a starting 3D organic form. The initial form is defined by a grammar we call FormGrow, which consists of a long series of numbers. These numbers determine various characteristics of the 3D form, such as the amount of twist, bend, branches, horns, and so on. MUTATOR functions like an 'evolutionary fruit machine,' randomly altering these numbers with each spin to create a new variant.\n\nFurthermore, I can crossbreed two or more variants, combining characteristics from one or more parents to produce multiple offspring. The technology we have developed operates within the realm of Genetic Algorithms (GA). Together with the additional technology developed by Stephen Todd for structure mutation and navigating multi-dimensional parameter space, it represents a form of Artificial Intelligence (AI), often referred to as Artificial Life.\n\nHistorically, MUTATOR was originally developed by Stephen Todd and me in the late 1980s at IBM, coinciding with Genetic Algorithm techniques pioneered by Richard Dawkins and Karl Sims during that period."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2435838d69be609791f48caec9987a42","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Stephen Todd working on Mutator at the Centre Pompidou in Paris, 2020.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-88d1fcc6e1a7fb2712e00be4ba6b23965aa00bc2-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"91276d25d8c5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aa7726c78a8a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6283bc89e6c60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: What impact do you hope your work with MUTATOR AI will have on future generations of artists? Are there specific aspects of your work that you wish to see explored or expanded upon?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1d7b2ad4c3da","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d34e4390e7790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: I think the impact of my work on the following generation of artists and other users was often easy to spot. There was an influence on the next generation of generative artists, who also used a set of rules and incorporated an element of chance. But also, many forms in the work of artists and other users were very similar to my images, which seemed to crop up in all kinds of places, including cinema visuals, with this influence becoming more diluted over time but still recognizable.\n\nMuch of my work has challenged the traditional hierarchical relationship between artist, viewer, and machine, to some degree handing over the artwork to either (or both) the viewer or the computer itself through automation of the mutation selection process. The big question now is whether it will be possible to hand over completely to the computer or whether the artist will still need to have some input. Up until now, computers have been very poor at recognizing the kind of emergent content that humans find evocative and meaningful.\n\nIn the image below from my MUTATOR INFINITY series, viewers have been discovering all sorts of content. Would a computer be able to supply this? So this is the area where I would like to see more exploration and expansion. Can we bring the software to a point where it can see through a particular artist’s eye with all that individual’s quirks and preferences? And, building on that, will there one day be a computer that can exercise its own artistic choices in a way that pleases (or provokes) humans?\n\nI also believe that we are still far from tapping into the creative potential of VR and XR. I think in the future there will be home art enjoyed in VR in full immersion with some sort of metaverse angle where virtual world and experience builders will share their work. This at-home, technology-enjoyed art may be either fully private or could potentially incorporate some sense of a collective experience with other people, even if they co-exist rather than socialize, e.g., floating, flock-like, with thousands of other entities in some sort of collective astral projection. The technology will use extremely sophisticated, fast, and high-resolution VR headsets with experiences that are 100% customized to the viewer’s thinking and desires (e.g., slow and meditative for some, more rave-like for others), including content that they themselves have created and invented. I’m guessing that some of these systems will have tactile feedback and that the experience will, to some degree, be considered hallucinogenic.\n\nSo yes, I’d also like to see that explored. Something strange and exciting with some element of a social aspect."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"de71571d7cf0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"46cfd6240226","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0861957ed7610","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: For your solo exhibition at EXPANDED in Berlin, you have once again expanded your MUTATOR software. What’s the idea behind the MIRROR CUBES?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"63d45b472b76","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"743b1fecd4ae0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: The idea behind MIRROR CUBES is to take a mutation variant from MUTATOR and FormGrow and place it in a closed mirrored space, creating infinite refractions. This results in a kaleidoscope effect where viewers find it challenging to distinguish between the form and the reflections, offering them a visual feast of colors."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c90bbcfcc4eb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Mirror Cube #16: Orange Molecular Crowd, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-37da554fdb2ed9ff5ebb3c784390af4f66c3dc1a-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-37da554fdb2ed9ff5ebb3c784390af4f66c3dc1a-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"db368e617060","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c9aab5eccb0a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"22a5f685f7bf0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why do you emphasize that the MIRROR CUBES are \"shamelessly decorative\"?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b0d46a957292","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b5c0927cd3120","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: The MIRROR CUBES series represents a departure from the mood of my earlier work in the late 1980s and 90s, as well as my recent FANTASY VIRUS series. In the FANTASY VIRUS series, the mutated 3D forms are displayed in a vast void, a bleak infinite empty space, resembling biological specimens with little or only dark coloring."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a5b0302a5c44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea1ce692978a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In contrast, the MIRROR CUBES series features forms enclosed in a highly reflective and warmly colored space, presenting a more playful approach influenced by my time in rave music. While I personally appreciate decoration, I consider it somewhat of an artistic indulgence. This perspective is why I describe these images as shamelessly decorative."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c74a42ca41a9","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham, Mirror Cube #11: Bold Black Lace, 2022. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bb97dfb2a53e4056be96c307c4e746fb71091e15-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bb97dfb2a53e4056be96c307c4e746fb71091e15-4000x4000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"9d99771f3162","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"27da11b3fefb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"60f7bc946cb50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"NB: There was an unexpected intersection between your work and that of rave culture in the 1990’s. How did rave culture initially get exposed to your work? In terms of digital visuals, was that a largely new concept at the time?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a1d85d45f1e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f2fc5ac3a9ef0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: This is the cultural alignment I was just mentioning, which took my artworks outside of the traditional galleries and also brought into the galleries people who were not traditional visitors. At one gallery in Manchester, they put beanbags on the floor where people lay around gazing at the images, some of them actually in a trance. Over the years, many people have told me that my ‘psychedelic’ images were remarkably similar to hallucinations they’d had when under the influence of drugs, which always surprised me as I’ve never had any interest in drugs myself.\n\nIn terms of how rave culture was first exposed to my work, at the time my images were very much ‘out there'—in magazines, on TV, etc. (in the UK). They struck a chord with the musicians and DJs. I was directly approached by the Shamen and a number of other bands. Because my Mutator art was a good fit with experiences around what was then a new drug, Ecstasy, my artworks were shown in large warehouse raves. The DJ Danny Rampling often featured my art at his club, Shoom, in Southwark (London), where Acid House was launched.\n\nYou asked whether this use of digital visuals was new at the time, and I think largely yes. The visuals were not so much used to support the music but became integral to the concert experience."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bccb83ff089f1cdee05d84c8b014f9e3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"William Latham signing a Mutator Infinity B&W drawing in his studio, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-598b705b2866836608f6821ec79bb187ec4ab04c-1024x761-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"14454fdb8dd4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d23e1776e819","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2176cca8e7210","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: While the MIRROR CUBES bathe in color, MUTATOR INFINITY seems to have gothic vibes. Why these two opposites with these two new series?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"def0e828d3d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b7beecad7e05","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WL: MUTATOR INFINITY was always meant to be black and white, aiming for a Gothic effect where organic forms interlace and mirror each other with a lot of emergent content. However, one day I switched on the color, 3D rendering, and lighting for a while and was captivated by the feast of colors with floral overtones and a shimmering kaleidoscopic effect. So, before returning to black and white, I worked on the images that would become the color MIRROR CUBES series. Although it was an unplanned deviation from the path I had set out on, I found the journey very enjoyable."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5d90d7d41cf5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"67e40d757713","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In MUTATOR INFINITY, we see the same mirrored cubic space as in the MIRROR CUBES series but represented as black and white line drawings, employing an 18th-century engraving-like effect in the rendering. Here, when the mutation is reflected, it creates a complex yet highly two-dimensional effect. Additionally, a 3D physics noise effect is added at the end, gently disrupting the organic form, pulling it apart, and introducing an element of incremental chaos into the work. In many ways, these drawings are at a midpoint between chaos and order."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0a284dccd2fb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5600fcdf173a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"64bcc6f10d2f","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for sharing your thoughts and ideas with us!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a2d5f0c4e1be","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"ef99531aa8e2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"02ac6021-b37d-4e03-8756-0bcaa4ad0f3d","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"23f87d958b3c","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"794fc1e1f5ef","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"d55ae49b-cdfe-4c82-be61-0339b678ffba","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"23f7ee694cdc","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"d7fc856a0431","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e640ffbe-945a-4cd5-bdd3-b9f40df63c89","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-06-03T16:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"William Latham gained recognition as a pioneering figure in generative art with his MUTATOR evolutionary art, developed at IBM during the late 1980s and early 1990s. His creations, characterized by organic, frequently serpentine shapes, are generated using his unique \"alternative evolutionary software system\" (created in collaboration with Stephen Todd and their team). This software allows Latham to select and crossbreed 3D forms that transcend the boundaries of human imagination.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier and Noah Bolanowski, William Latham discusses his concept of the artist as a gardener and the influence of gardening on his art, organic and evolutionary art, and the past, present, and future of digital art and AI. \n","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-53d71054895ca4c4887b1ce214df4a28e96d637a-1920x1081-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"interview-william-latham"},"store":null,"subtitle":"EVOLUTIONARY ART AND MUTATOR AI","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-53d71054895ca4c4887b1ce214df4a28e96d637a-1920x1081-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"WILLIAM LATHAM: THE ARTIST AS A GARDENER"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"25d6f42788ba","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-02T12:51:38Z","_id":"80d7563b-d8ab-40ad-b7f0-a7bcae07eb8b","_rev":"lN7yN3tsl0wCOfkzdUQan7","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-10-18T22:50:28Z","author":"Margaret Murphy","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ec2d719d5a8f3e14c43cde402dc08c60afa159a0-4000x2337-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"c4b16a760504","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"bc72f40a29af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7aefefdd50630","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"New York-based artist Ziyang Wu spends his time exploring the invisible forces of the virtual world. Data and algorithms ubiquitously micro-alienate and reconstruct humans in the highly globalized post-Internet society. In his practice, Wu uses artificial intelligence, user-based Internet algorithms, and episodic video to create cutting-edge NFTs. Ziyang Wu currently teaches at the School of Visual Arts and New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts. He is a member of the Experiment on Art and Technology Track at NEW INC, New Museum.\n\n"},{"_key":"4ed0adfe4342","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Margaret Murphy spoke with Ziyang Wu about his creative process with AI, the ever-looming presence of algorithms, and what he looks forward to in the future of Web3."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"86fe86cfec34","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2a5641b7ff9c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"29a66f903a550","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Margaret Murphy: What is most challenging about working with artificial intelligence in your art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2a8da2ef30b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d63b397051010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ziyang Wu: The most challenging part for me about working with artificial intelligence is constructing an interesting and conceptually challenging system to create a meaningful simulation. This ranges from using unique datasets to train AI, to juxtaposing a series of training models, such as those used in the video game industry, to reverse-engineering existing models that contain certain algorithmic or engineering biases."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b632f65a3646","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"634f48b812740","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I’m not interested in using any AI tool that comes with a pre-trained model. If you use a pre-trained AI, no matter how many interesting keywords you input or what kind of style it’s learning from, you are essentially just generating beautiful visual or audio experiences that are predetermined by others. The result is not going to be new or unique since nothing unprecedented has been created."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b1244e4b5bc5","_type":"moduleImage","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0ddd09caca5aac87733bcd07b5ee425765c0e8c1-2459x835-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0ddd09caca5aac87733bcd07b5ee425765c0e8c1-2459x835-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"078709707da9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0712884513c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"33be32f96b020","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Discussions about artificial intelligence have asked if its use will mean \""},{"_key":"33be32f96b021","_type":"span","marks":["25f9c12c1248","strong"],"text":"the end of human artists."},{"_key":"33be32f96b022","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\""},{"_key":"33be32f96b023","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" What are your thoughts on this?"}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"25f9c12c1248","_type":"link","href":"https://news.artnet.com/art-world/ai-generated-art-debate-2175570"}],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"068b7c5e9895","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2487d5d52e090","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: I don’t think the art world will allow \"the end of human artists\" to happen, as it will need this system to keep running. If we think of photography and the conversation around how it would bring about \"the end of painting\" in the past, for me, it is a similar discussion right now."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d607e3964118","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"56e1b3d9c8c4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5754f70f83ac0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: What do you say to those who criticize the use of AI in art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ad2aeb759aa9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9568d1fba1070","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: I think it depends on what kind of artist they are. If the artist uses AI as a tool like text-to-image generation, it could be used to generate ideas quickly, very similar to how artists use collages to come up with ideas. It is also a way to democratize art making, especially for those who are interested in making art but might not have the technical skills, like painting, to execute."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"09a382bc402c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad9fc14e51eb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"If the artist is a creative technologist, they will explore and invent new code, training models, and datasets, which could be shared as tools for more people to use. They will also further explore more interesting potentials of AI technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f7ecee56e124","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c94a0190da20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"If the artist treats AI as a subject matter, they will focus on the problem that AI and algorithms generate. The artist will raise questions about it or propose alternative models to challenge or substitute existing ones. This is exactly what my NFT, "},{"_key":"a35bf07c3d3b","_type":"span","marks":["b8df2b9fd2bb"],"text":"A WOMAN WITH TECHNOLOGY"},{"_key":"84084eed5d22","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", was trying to explore."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"b8df2b9fd2bb","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/products/ziyang-wu_a-woman-with-the-technology-carnival_2019"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"cfcbdfbcecd7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ziyang Wu, The Last Subway, video still, 2017.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a6067b163f55087c5a179be2058994b2d28f0687-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a6067b163f55087c5a179be2058994b2d28f0687-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"d385bf956379","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"81ba06dc2b59","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0d1a80da32480","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Creating art for the Metaverse incorporates new technologies and techniques otherwise not previously explored such as varied spatial definitions, scale, and interactivity. What about this do you find most fulfilling? Most challenging?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9460162ee179","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"51a08a279ce90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: Whenever I’m using a so-called new technology, I’m trying to be very aware of its medium specificity, rather than only focusing on the spectacle it creates. As someone who is excited about (but also hyper-critical of) all technological developments, it not only gives us more tools to play with and more dimensions to explore but also the themes and topics to focus on."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1167fa5666b4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7902f4521e28","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a6fc1c1ec5dc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: What got you into making NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3a7a7520e393","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5206828c258d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: The first time I minted an NFT was in May of 2021 when the NFT marketplace Foundation invited me to be a contributing artist. This was in conjunction with the launch of their 3D feature in which an artist could upload and mint a 3D model as a glb file and view it via Augmented Reality. Of course, I’ve been observing and following all kinds of news and events since 2019, but haven’t gotten involved until this launch.\n\nNFTs offer so many new possibilities for artists to create and have a more sustainable practice. For example, let’s say there is a complex digital image that consists of 20 separate layers in Photoshop. We can mint each layer as an NFT, and authorize the collector with the right to change the layer they own. Every time a single layer is changed, the whole image changes. Since these changes are \"real\", encrypted, and irreversible, this \"never-ending\" simulation could reach its massive creative potential and offer a new sphere by merging art-making, collecting, and participation. Moreover, a lot of generative and live-simulation works have previously been difficult to sell. Many of these works live on the Internet and used to be only commissioned and collected in small numbers by bigger institutions. However, after being minted as NFTs, they become the \"one and only\" entities that are favorable to collect while keeping the uniqueness of their ever-changing nature."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a85720f3fbb3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7d7397d14ba30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I’m also very inspired by many NFT communities where artists, collectors, creative developers, curators, people from the tech world, etc. are regularly having community-based meetings and events both online and in IRL. I believe it will further bring people together and eliminate the hierarchies that often exist in the traditional art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ec6448f71989","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ziyang Wu's first NFT, WHERE DID MACY GO? (Episode 6), 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-344da5b1fe77167437105477ae4ed1390566a51a-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-344da5b1fe77167437105477ae4ed1390566a51a-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"88a51e6a89cb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4e19c94d099b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"77d2527f623a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Your 2019 artwork A WOMAN WITH THE TECHNOLOGY–CARNIVAL is an excerpt of a larger series based on conversations with an AI chatbot exploring the filter bubble, the phenomenon of an Internet user encountering only information and opinions that conform to and reinforce their own beliefs. Can you talk through the steps that led from a text-based exchange with an AI chatbot to the output of this piece?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f11597ef6557","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eca4fcf140f60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: By training an AI chatbot whose knowledge equals my knowledge, and making an animated video based on the content generated, \"A Woman with the Technology\" examines how an individual’s online experience becomes personalized by the Internet algorithm and creates the filter bubble. As a result, users become separated from information that disagrees with their viewpoints, effectively isolating them in their own cultural and ideological bubbles."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e3b8c0646f68","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06029b1e35370","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The project started with a 3-month long recording of all my online experiences. A series of keywords closely related to my daily focus is selected and used as initial input on various media platforms such as Instagram, Facebook, and YouTube. The keywords include censorship, surveillance, alienation, absurdity, Neocolonialism, post-truth, trade war, Asian experience, 5G, artificial intelligence, mixed reality, K-pop, and identity, among others. I log in to these media every day, giving likes and leaving comments on the posts and videos I’m interested in. The daily searching experiences are screen-recorded and organized.\n\nAt the end of the project, I used all the collected data to train an AI chatbot, who can be seen as an AI version of myself, or a self that was constructed by the Internet algorithm. The data that were used to train the AI include all the captions from each post, subtitles from YouTube videos, as well as all the textual information generated from the images and videos using another AI application called dense caption image detection. This part of the project was in collaboration with artist and creative technologist Yang Wang."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"69bf1b8c5235","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d99ffae828220","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"After the AI chatbot was trained, I googled \"How to write a film script\"? It listed a series of questions that needed to be asked to write \"a successful script\". I asked the AI chatbot all the listed questions. It then generated a futuristic and dystopian film script and I made a 12-episode animated video based on the AI-generated script."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"36c6b6d27995","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ziyang Wu, Archives and data analysis of A WOMAN WITH THE TECHNOLOGY, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3410be50658345ece87b8d431943643219b83fee-4000x2425-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3410be50658345ece87b8d431943643219b83fee-4000x2425-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"16562ab98402","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b08d07a642a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c255c4f6f8b60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Ahead of the 2024 U.S. presidential election, have your thoughts about algorithmic bias changed, especially with the rise of AI-generated imagery during this campaign cycle?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c9f4ab8e6e36","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db920d77f8a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: I haven't lived in the United States for the past two years. Therefore, I don't think I have enough first-hand experience with election-related matters and may not be able to answer this question well."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"54cae3c9d294","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e992268a125b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, false information has indeed become more unpredictable overall. Some time ago, I listened to a podcast that mainly discussed how AI-generated fake pictures, videos, and sounds are widely used in telecommunications fraud and the gambling industry. (As we all know, unfortunately, aside from the military sector, the early and most widespread applications of such technologies are basically in illegal fields.) In the past, we could employ biological information—such as fingerprints and facial features—the most \"unique\" information carried by each individual, for verification. But nowadays, even this information can no longer be truly \"unique.\" As a result, engineers are once again developing detection tools that can identify these generated contents. Perhaps humans are like this: we continuously create \"new\" things, and then we need to expend more time and effort to create even \"newer\" things to counter what we previously created."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d18dc4167e89","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e0a71741882a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"644d77b7c6a60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Your work focuses on a term you’ve coined “post-Internet micro-alienation,” which often results in art that both celebrates and critiques"},{"_key":"644d77b7c6a61","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" "},{"_key":"644d77b7c6a62","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"the virtual world, data, and algorithms. Can you expand upon these celebrations and criticisms as they relate to your art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"24f9fa1576b3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7d3604327bbd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: My artistic interests started with macro-alienation, which occurs on a global scale through political and economic oppression. My past multimedia works \"The Story of the Pig\" and \"Carnival 2020\" addressed this through slaughtered bodies and killed spirits, a world related to George Orwell’s "},{"_key":"7d3604327bbd1","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"\""},{"_key":"7d3604327bbd2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"1984,\" and the critical examination of the Social Credit System – a \"Black Mirror\" reality. Other works refer to the invisible forces (such as algorithm-based commercials and data surveillance) that dissemble an individual’s value and rationality in their everyday lives or micro-alienation. In my animated video \"The Last Subway,\" for example, I created the narrative of a fictitious video game protagonist ZiyangMon (Referring to Pokemon Go) who travels between mock newscasts, the Japanese pop music video PPAP, surveillance systems, and Virtual Reality footage to hint at how the virtual world increasingly influences human consciousness on a micro scale in our highly globalized and digitized society.\n\nIn the current post-Internet era, micro-alienation consistently appears with new faces and generates new dominating powers that have never been before. In today’s world, everyone is becoming a cyborg. Smartphones have truly become part of the human body. Manipulative algorithms are implemented everywhere: social media, search engines, streaming services, surveillance, the healthcare system, and so on. Alienation indeed reconstructs us more microscopically and is becoming more ubiquitous and harder to detect."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1e60d2b9ab2f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c55ddeb665e3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0a97604b22070","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Tell us about your work \"Where Did Macy Go?\"in this context."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ed3363f8afd6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b48ced7fc5c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: \"Where Did Macy Go?\" is an 11-episode animated film. The piece discusses the collapse and emergence of community structures after decollectivization, Confucian obedience vs. social obedience, the new tele-republic of home, “mask politics” and social justice under the pandemic. During the pandemic when everyone was simply exhibiting work online, I preferred to take advantage of what the Internet does the best: sharing and re-distributing. I posted all the videos on TikTok, one episode per week for a total of about three months. I was hoping to create this kind of excitement similar to the anticipation of a weekly TV episode. I asked all my friends to share it and even bought an advertisement and created Instagram filters and AR works, which were conceptual choices in favor of even further distribution. So far, the filters have been used over 300,000 times. In these choices, I am appropriating and “celebrating” an advertising strategy, while also critiquing it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"568bcd440f31","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ziyang Wu, WHERE DID MACY GO?, 2020.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9dfe535a609caf637d8ecf6a0e6a12218cfc6872-1020x1148-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9dfe535a609caf637d8ecf6a0e6a12218cfc6872-1020x1148-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"96b984e3a748","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"dca7bcc1deb9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0d9cd5b97660","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: How does your artwork, specifically A WOMAN WITH THE TECHNOLOGY explore the concept of digital power structures?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4ce61098fc93","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"42bf0e6007850","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: The initial inspiration for A WOMAN WITH THE TECHNOLOGY comes from the ubiquitous algorithmic manipulation in daily life. For example, right after you browse a product on Amazon, you will see similar product recommendations on Instagram the next second. Or the leftists in the United States rarely receive right-wing information on media platforms (and vice versa). Having lived in the U.S. for over seven years as an immigrant, I realized I was living and being \"protected\" under the \"blue\" and democratic \"bubble\" – one that I support and align with ideologically. I started to think about what kind of person I was re-constructed by this current bubble I’m in and how biased I could be without knowing people from other bubbles.\n\nAnother inspiration was from the book titled \"Algorithms of Oppression\" by Safiya Umoja Noble. The book's cover is a Google search bar with the text \"Why black women are\", and the suggested words are angry, loud, mean, lazy, annoying, insecure, etc. This is a very vivid example of how we are involved and affected by algorithmic bias in our daily lives. Then I started from an individual’s perspective, explored my current state of existence (or what the Internet algorithm thought about who I was or what was interested in), and reconstruct \"my filter bubbles,\" to complete a deep research and exploration of the digital power structure.\n\nThe research and data-collecting phase of \"A Woman with the Technology"},{"_key":"7b0547de4987","_type":"span","marks":["em"],"text":"\""},{"_key":"8f869d271611","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" were also very interesting. Beginning day two, I began to receive related posts and videos about Andrew Yang, the former Democratic presidential candidate for the 2020 U.S. election. Initially, I had no idea who he was and I think that the algorithm assumed I was Asian based on my browsing history. It thought I might be his potential voter, despite being ineligible, and would not vote for him. The idea and mechanism of \"supporting the candidate based on the same race\" are funny and ridiculous despite having functions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2d781bc09469","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"A WOMAN WITH THE TECHNOLOGY – CARNIVAL (Still), Video, 2019.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-01b478db069c7f4b6c51584f469b2127f28b876c-1088x1378-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-01b478db069c7f4b6c51584f469b2127f28b876c-1088x1378-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"0b92deb69931","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1bfc7fe5ecee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a6e83cd058a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: That's alarming that it only took two days for the algorithm to make those assumptions. Continuing our discussion about augmented and virtual reality, where do you expect the future of Metaverse Art to go? What about it excites you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ca357db900af","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"417d39cbe2c50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: If we are talking about the larger scope of Metaverse, such as the seven layers of Metaverse coined by "},{"_key":"417d39cbe2c51","_type":"span","marks":["c99fb3b4696e"],"text":"Jon Radoff"},{"_key":"417d39cbe2c52","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":", countless aspects excite me. Or, to put it another way, we have been exploring all these aspects for a long time as artists, designers, and engineers. 5G/6G, micro-electromechanical systems, and the cloud are the Infrastructure Layer. Digital wearables and haptic gloves are the Human Interface Layer. AI agents, blockchains, and DAOs are the Decentralization Layer. VR, AR, and XR are the Spatial Computing Layer. Tools and assets for design and new workflows are the Creator Economy Layer. Social curating and rating are the Discovery Layer. Social media, shopping, and games are the Experience Layer."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"c99fb3b4696e","_type":"link","href":"https://medium.com/building-the-metaverse/the-metaverse-value-chain-afcf9e09e3a7"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ae913dc7c576","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"ALGORITHMS OF OPPRESSION by Safiya Umoja Noble.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b16c53b02318785c50e23c3dec33fb8571cc292a-1014x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b16c53b02318785c50e23c3dec33fb8571cc292a-1014x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"82ce41a37662","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ebce994522f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3172940a915c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: On the topic of algorithmic manipulation and the biases it can create on an individual and societal level, do you feel this has become more or less of an issue in the last five years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a9ec3866f156","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ababd039032c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: On the surface, the phenomenon of algorithmic bias seems to have decreased significantly. This can be seen from the cases and reports of many large technology companies. On the other hand, this may also be because the phenomenon of algorithmic bias in the past was overly severe, prominent, and absurd, so it appears to be better now. But from another perspective, these \"biases\" have become more difficult to detect."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"60d04301748b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c0057ca410f10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As for the phenomenon of algorithmic control, it must have become more profound (taking TikTok as an example), and it has become even more difficult to detect."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fc29ee0f9105","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e4c984cb3bd90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Our relationship with AI has changed from an initial state of confrontation and competition to one of symbiosis and coexistence because they (if we only consider them from the perspective of being tools) are getting better, more useful, and more ubiquitous. In this state, we increasingly \"trust\" the information they transmit to us and no longer feel discomfort and suspicion as we did initially. Then, those controls and biases that are increasingly difficult to detect may become even more dangerous."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0da686005e88","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e17fa0cb824b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Another huge concern remains monopolization. Monopolization here includes the monopoly of leading companies' businesses, the monopoly of infrastructure resources, and also the monopoly on the aesthetics of images in the future. Here, a comparison can be made; for example, there are only a few types of renderers for 3D software, which results in artworks made in 3D software being very similar in terms of aesthetics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f5b0c6cc9bd3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"28b58fd4b96c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b7c32ff86590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: Since the prevalence of mainstream AI chatbots like ChatGPT and Claude.AI over the last year, we’ve seen a strong response to this type of technology, both positive and negative. Based on your use of them in your research and art, what are your predictions for these AI chatbots in the future?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c90d247e2b08","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7eb3aea6816","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: Yes, I have many \"predictions,\" but this issue is just too vast. Even just focusing on the impact of AI on the creative field, I have many predictions. So here, I'll just focus on this part and share a few:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"180cb98ccfb3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b179595b70a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"• The importance of AI agents will be extremely highlighted in any \"creative field.\" We have already seen agents (through a variety of APIs) that can understand the creator's thoughts and carry out content output (including text, code, pictures, videos, 3D models, etc.) through multiple rounds of conversations. At the same time, these output contents are not isolated from each other but are interrelated and can even become input again to conduct content iteration once more. In other words, these agents are no longer just single-function closed-source tools like Midjourney or Runway ML. Instead, they are \"creators\" with a macroscopic perspective."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ad692bb495b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d69394e790820","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"• Artificial intelligence will no longer be viewed merely as a tool, but as systems, prostheses, hallucinogens, collective unconsciousness, the Other, etc."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c9d71e9c6c1f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2dd67dbdfbbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"• Our relationship with it may evolve from denial to coexistence to symbiosis to battling."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"37bd54b6e80e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"087b797aaf3b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"• The end of truth (we are already deeply living in the post-truth era, and truth will only get closer to its end)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"59f4cc524072","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4268b9f5064c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"• The paradox of critique: There's a need to build entirely new ways to discuss concepts, ideas, texts, compositions, innovation, imagination, emotions, and so on. Here I'm envisioning an impending reality where all artworks could potentially be completed by AI or machines, ranging from photography/image creation to oil painting (via robotic arms), sculpture (3D printing), and of course digital artworks, and much more. Simultaneously, the concept could also stem from more sophisticated large language models (LLMs). If we find ourselves in such a reality, then most forms of critique will need to be \"re-invented.\" For instance, if we see a remarkable image-based artwork today, we might say, \"I like it because of its amazing color, composition, labor,\" etc. However, when we learn that it is created by AI, we might think, \"Ah, AI did it and it's boring/annoying/not original,\" and so on. But soon enough, we might no longer be able to tell the difference. At that time, we might confront this new \"paradox of critique,\" or we need to invent an entirely new way of \"critique.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2e5e9ca29f03","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6047fed47376","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed33be0604fb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: What do you consider to be the best NFT Art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"87bc2020de77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b212a089053e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: For me, the best NFT artworks so far, are the so-called crypto-native works that deploy the inherent features, rules, and spirit of blockchain. For example, all the generative NFT works that have been created using certain meaningful data, or that could be changed over time based on the collector’s interaction such as Pak’s \"Merge\" or Dom Hofmann’s \"Loot.\" That is not to say these kinds of strategies didn't exist previously – digital and internet artists have been working this way for over three decades. But the scope is very different. A super successful crypto-native NFT project could attract many people and collectors to become a part of the work, while a socially engaged or social intervention net-art piece might be only looked at by a small group of people, and therefore the ultimate goal of the project might not be achieved. This is one thing that excites me the most about the next generation of NFT works: where all the infrastructures are better built, and there could be more socially engaged and meaningful work happening that could influence a larger group of audiences."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"00665bd7eba6","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ziyang Wu, 24 PANDA I, video game and digital video, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd75b1d18db7491f393206e7c832b3c4593cf34c-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd75b1d18db7491f393206e7c832b3c4593cf34c-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"0d7835c991be","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ff828b1b8f28","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"06b7ed13d5ed0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: What excites you about the future of Web 3.0?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"da29d5415f03","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"29ad911942a10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: What excites me in the near future, is when more and better Web 3.0 infrastructure is built. Imagine when you purchase an NFT shoe, it could be imported in any Metaverse game, traded on any NFT marketplace, and “worn” via any augmented reality application. This is the future that Web 3.0 promises people to completely destroy the control from Web 2.0 giants. I very much look forward to this happening one day--although I’m not very confident."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"07d3e9014907","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"130e0c4dee14","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"029e78d430550","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: What have you been working on recently?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"bd39788ec246","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"65b4d70eceeb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: Recently, I have been exploring AI generation applications such as Dreamfields 3D, where you generate textured 3D models from simple texts. Although it is still in an early phase, and I haven’t been able to train using a unique dataset, I’m very excited about its potential. Everyone could generate a complex 3D world/Metaverse simply using texts and from their imaginations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4ddc91812394","_type":"moduleImage","caption":" Ziyang Wu's recent experiments on text-to-3D model generation.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ac28f789237d41579d4a2e94eb11ae900e8deaab-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ac28f789237d41579d4a2e94eb11ae900e8deaab-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"9a4667bd94a3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"86c302237980","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56ad50d8ea9e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MM: In the last two years, we’ve seen many innovations in virtual worlds and consumer-level products. What are your thoughts about the Metaverse, specifically for artists in 2024?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b5bacc57cd7a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb20f14931fb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"ZW: After the initial hype of the first stage, when we revisit the seven-layer structure of the Metaverse today, the blockchain component, for instance, has lost some of its previous vibrancy due to various factors. Meanwhile, other elements such as GPUs, AI agents, VR/AR/XR, and games are experiencing rapid development. Generally speaking, I believe the Metaverse is an entity that is constantly evolving—advancing, retreating, and intertwining. In the future, we will undoubtedly witness even more changes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3c46b537acdd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b06a16600c50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In my work, I’m more interested in the whole (infra)structure and the complex connections and relationships between the layers. For example, Future_Forecast (in collaboration with artist Mark Ramos) is a project that includes a live simulation and collective world-building online environment, a series of NFT characters, and a CGI animated film (Pasig River 2030 – 6 Plus). In the context of “Digital Earth,” the “One Belt One Road” Initiative, and the Philippines’ “Build Build Build” Initiative, Future_Forecast presents and predicts the evolution of cloud-networked societies in the developing world. It does so by examining the impact of growing Internet-enabled networks and the ecological, geopolitical, and socio-cultural implications of a speculative future ISP and blockchain company in the Philippines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"86efa665e40c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f40eb2909c010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In this project, we use Benjamin Bratton’s 6-layer Stack model (which is similar to the 7-layer model of the Metaverse) to focus on a developing region where the \"superstack\" platform has not yet been realized. By doing so, we attempt to simulate a future that bridges the virtual and the real, driven by both online and real-world data. By revealing the contradictions between digital structures and material reality, backwardness and progress, the project explores the impact of network infrastructure construction and development on developing countries in order to promote thinking about new infrastructure and discursive urban planning for sustainable development."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b477dd086457","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Ziyang Wu and Mark Ramos, Screenshot of Future_Forecast, live simulation and collective world-building online environment, 2022. Commissioned by Guangdong Times Museum, Media Lab.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-48cb6a346a802b267fbc7c5d3bda1a3e2cefc65f-1920x1654-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-48cb6a346a802b267fbc7c5d3bda1a3e2cefc65f-1920x1654-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"bbcc0e731d2d","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"52407dc3fda5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8e7af501d3160","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Ziyang Wu"},{"_key":"f027f2302770","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" is an artist based in New York, currently teaching at the School of Visual Arts and New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts, and is a member of the Experiment on Art and Technology Track at NEW INC, New Museum. His recent practices examine how the virtual world, data and algorithm as invisible forces ubiquitously micro-alienates and reconstructs human in the highly globalized post-Internet society."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6acb5e56cdfe","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"5d83275a28e6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"25aee72f-bd4a-48b9-a985-a1b74e9e49aa","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"2e1f3355109d","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"4b133e7e6d4a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-6913319272634","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"d74a71ccb2b7","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"11f58f894b06","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-01-23T09:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"New York-based artist Ziyang Wu spends his time exploring the invisible forces of the virtual world. Data and algorithms ubiquitously micro-alienate and reconstruct humans in the highly globalized post-Internet society. In his practice, Wu uses artificial intelligence, user-based Internet algorithms, and episodic video to create cutting-edge NFTs. Ziyang Wu currently teaches at the School of Visual Arts and New York University’s Tisch School of the Arts. He is a member of the Experiment on Art and Technology Track at NEW INC, New Museum.\n\nMargaret Murphy spoke with Ziyang Wu about his creative process with AI, the ever-looming presence of algorithms, and what he looks forward to in the future of Web3.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"ziyang-wu-in-conversation-with-margaret-murphy"},"store":null,"subtitle":"AI AND WEB3","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4b9f844b7cbeaf7e64318f1de66176dbb8035947-2000x2000-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"ZIYANG WU: INVESTIGATING THE ALGORITHM"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"e30d14710474","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-11-02T08:54:31Z","_id":"f5806f58-c37e-4439-9eaf-d119049ab244","_rev":"Dsvmdo48qp4ou0OJOUW3Z0","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T14:56:23Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f4724c5e98c977fcd0bd6e16d0c74291f53a9fe0-1164x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"6b181a15c04b","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"a594d4102503","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0309a75621500","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anne Spalter knows how to help herself. When she was looking for a book about the pioneers of early computer art, she couldn't find an in-depth publication, so she wrote it herself. It took her six years to finish the book. Spalter took the time to speak with artists like Herbert W. Franke, Frieder Nake, and Manfred Mohr. When she first heard about artists working with technology, she wasn't convinced; she thought computers were for science. Her initial reaction helps her understand the sometimes negative responses to artists working with the latest technologies. Spalter herself became an artist interested in creating art with new technologies; she is a pioneer in the field of AI and, together with Michael Spalter, stewards one of the world's largest private collections of early computer art. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e7413631117a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6f92f9333383","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Spalter discusses early computer art and AI, creating art by hand and telling stories, the role of the artist in the age of AI, and the future of NFTs."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"51ac7a3110a2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d866c01dc94a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95860826a8e50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Anne, when did you first use a computer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"55f85208bf79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bcd9afdaa2990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Anne Spalter: Literally, the first time I used a computer was when my father, who taught math and science at a Boston high school, brought home an Apple IIe. I thought it was pretty nerdy, but I do still remember him explaining to me why something called a spreadsheet (VisiCalc!) was revolutionary in its ability to consider \"what if\" scenarios. As a teenage girl, I wasn’t a convert then and there, but he was right."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ffea02d1c26d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9373eb55e2e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I began using my own personal computer more intensively only in college and in a significant way mostly after my grandmother, who, as a product of the Depression, was the type of person who saved every plastic grocery bag and would walk an extra mile to find a better price on tomatoes. She somehow, however, felt strongly \"that computers were going to be important\" and bought me an early Mac—a Mac 512K, to be exact. This significant outlay was indeed life-changing for me, allowing me to experiment with creating art in private vs. a university computer lab and inspiring me to learn more about a range of software. She was in her late 70s, and I was 21."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"49bbcb00cb3d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a9e6cf4e334d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"To properly calibrate younger readers, the 512K had no hard drive. 512K refers to the amount of RAM (the laptop I am typing on right now has 64GB). One used the machine by repeatedly swapping floppy discs in and out—the OS, the application one was using, and a disc to store files. The screen had 512 x 342 pixels (current laptop: 3456 × 2234), and those pixels were only grayscale."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5919688f910a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9c52fb6bb87a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e256b6f70560","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And when did you first hear about artists using computers to create art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"612189285288","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3bfbe7612560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I was an art school student initially (at The Rhode Island School of Design, aka RISD in Providence, RI USA) and then transferred to Brown University next door to study mathematics, but I remained connected with the art community, so I was hearing things on and off. My initial reaction was 100% negative, though, which gives me empathy today when discussing art and technology with newcomers to the field. I thought computers were for science (I didn’t even think computational math proofs were really all that pure), and art should be made by hand."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c5aa2295a77f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a7f7a3451f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Two things worked to begin to change my mind during my senior year of college. First, a neighbor of my parents came by one day with an art show catalog he was discarding. It was an original hardcover catalog for Cybernetic Serendipity. (For readers who don’t know, this was a seminal computer art show put on in 1968 by curator Jasia Reichart in London.) At the same time, I was writing a long thesis, and I’m not the world’s most accurate typist. I loved my turquoise Olivetti typewriter, but I was going through an extreme amount of whiteout. A classmate of mine told me one day how he went to the \"print center\" and pressed a \"print button,\" and his 100+-page thesis was all ready to hand in. I thought, \"Hmmm...\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"83a8b261facf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d2eeb7f9855e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I ended up creating some images with the computer for my thesis, but even then, I wasn’t a true believer. When I returned to graduate school after a brief stint in the NYC banking world, I pledged to put the computer aside and return to \"real art making.\" I stretched up a canvas and began working. Soon I did something I regretted, and in my mind I thought, \"Undo.\" Of course, nothing happened. I realized then that I wanted to try to bring together the best of both worlds—powerful digital visual thinking tools merged synergistically with the traditional materials I had come to know and love from my art school training."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fb8850ee490e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Crash, oil on paper, 2019. When AI tools first emerged, the output was too low res for prints or other digital output, so Anne Spalter created oil paintings based on the compositions.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f64b52ce6239d2a6dc0bfa34e0c07eaf130bf1a1-1500x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f64b52ce6239d2a6dc0bfa34e0c07eaf130bf1a1-1500x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"ca906cb59084","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8d5b25d0253","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bce54d20c1ed0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You are widely known as the author of the book THE COMPUTER IN THE VISUAL ARTS, which was published in the late 1990s. You wrote it because there was no comprehensive book that combined technical and theoretical aspects of the emerging field of computer art and design. Today, in the post-digital age, researching and networking can be a fast process. How did you approach writing the book?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d8d5b25d0253_deduped_1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bce54d20c1ed0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"dd613ef84284","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38ebaf6ffe000","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: As a writer yourself, you know that working on any long writing project is infinitely more painful than the final readers can possibly imagine. The book was not fast—it took almost 6 years to complete and dominated my life and the lives of people around me. It began as a much shorter project with a different publisher and morphed into a comprehensive 500+-page undertaking that represented everything I knew at the time. I was fortunate to be employed as an artist-in-residence and visual computing researcher at one of the top computer graphics research labs in the country (Brown University’s Computer Graphics Research Group) and to be working directly with a founder of the field of technical computer graphics and co-author of one of its most renowned texts, Andries van Dam."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3a9b51baf15e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af5de5e488b50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I had access to leaders in every area who read and reread chapters, ensuring that my explanations were accurate. Included among those was Alvy Ray Smith, whose recently published PIXEL is a must-read. For the art side, I reached out directly to the pioneers who had miraculously been making art, even when that meant using huge corporate machines in the middle of the night or building their own computers. I interviewed everyone from Frieder Nake to Manfred Mohr to Herbert W. Franke and beyond. Artists and other researchers, such as William Mitchell from MIT, shared ideas and came to give lectures in my class. And of course, I read everything that was published at the time. I was also actively teaching at both RISD and Brown, so I was able to test out assignments and topics in real time with amazing students."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7d167d102a1f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"99d6116ab66c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My editor, Peter Gordon at Addison-Wesley, was instrumental in pushing the project through to completion. He sent me home after one meeting with a post-it to put on my screen that read, \"Thou shalt not revise.\" I also, near the end, had a sign on my office door to keep people from interrupting me with the message, \"Do not knock unless the fire has reached this floor.\" And truly, for the final push, it was only that many of the artists I had interviewed put the book in their online resumes that made me feel like I absolutely had to finish it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"90c45c0a79d8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9173fcfa388a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5f23ab1a28fc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: \"Only a few years ago, it would have seemed ridiculous to discuss the influence of computer graphics on art and society. Although computer-generated graphics had already been applied in important areas of science and technology, its influence was not yet felt in the arts or in society at large.\" These sentences are from Herbert W. Franke and are taken from his essay, THE NEW VISUAL AGE. THE INFLUENCE OF COMPUTER GRAPHICS ON ART AND SOCIETY was published in 1985. This sounds to me like the year 2023. What has changed based on your experiences?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"856fa4903bf5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e37944e601f40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: So true! I always say every time I think, \"OK, now we’ve made it, and now everyone will understand,\" someone says something to me that makes me think I’m waking up decades earlier. It’s always like this: two steps forward, one step back."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1064e2711970","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5562516979c60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But concrete changes include:"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"39a4c6aae7e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8562934718940","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"– The emergence of blockchain databases and crypto, which led to NFTs, and the recalibration of the discussion from “is computer art really art?” to are NFTs art? The funds that poured in and were pressed, even though a lot of them were negative, helped increase the profile of digital art and make it feel more familiar to serious creators and collectors."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b61f57088044","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b9d2ab3383220","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"– The success of artists like Vera Molnar, whose work is just so damn good that it cannot be ignored. Having Molnar’s work in major museums, the Venice Biennale, and an upcoming Pompidou show is a pretty significant challenge to anyone who doubts the importance of the field."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4e3a3c0e7697","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a7a676d94cbd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"– The ubiquity of computers in our lives and thus their incorporation into the creative process. In 1985, we were only just starting to have personal computers, but definitely not smart phones with cameras so good that I no longer even take my multi-thousand dollar SLR camera and lenses with me traveling anymore. Now we live in a virtual space of digital imagery, social media, and constant connectivity. Artists who ignore all of that are missing a big chunk of contemporary culture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dfee93f3cbe7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"79614bbdaf9e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"– The final thing I want to mention, and who knows what impact it will end up having, is AI (artificial intelligence). When I changed my outlook about digital art making because I felt the computer’s visual thinking tools were so powerful, they were just a fraction of the strength available today. I believe that AI tools will change how we create art, teach art, and may reshape the visual economy in ways impossible to grasp from our current vantage point."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"529873416513","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Bardo, Mateo, and Tohru, from the 557-piece RABBIT TAKEOVER, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fe945f66f85514cd7b0c244ba96a77f9e8823cac-1483x518-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-fe945f66f85514cd7b0c244ba96a77f9e8823cac-1483x518-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"b1effe600ea0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a16350f0a0a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"079c5c7bb8000","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What do you think needs to happen so that digital art, NFTs, and AI won’t lead to such strong emotional responses? What needs to happen, in your own words, is that \"everyone will understand\". I sometimes think it’s important that there is a counterweight to the fast and enthusiastic adoption of new technologies. Imagine everyone jumping on any new invention like an excited kid."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"66b7f63e3280","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8f6a57b73b250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: Great point. Sometimes a medium that’s inherently beautiful, like glass, or inherently easy to produce images with, as it is in the photographic or digital realm, can make creating meaningful works especially challenging."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2a88ff0ebd9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d7a348d9a9ef0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As for people's responses to digital art and specific tools or platforms, I think the simple passage of time can help shift opinions. When I started to teach art classes with Photoshop in the 1990s, students were often distracted by the many filters available, and we also spent time discussing how Photoshop was used in professional editing of everything from fashion photography to even news images. Now students come to school at the college level knowing most of this and are usually proficient in many pieces of graphics software. The idea that a photo can be changed is no longer alarming or news of any kind to them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2091b2826ee8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4f768848d8340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fear that somehow photography would be negatively impacted is also something I rarely hear anymore. There are still film-based photographers, and there are still amazing photographers who just happen to work with digital cameras and tools. Just as photography did not bring about the end of painting (as some claimed it would), so digital didn’t end photography."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f503db6a12e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b80e2b8943200","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It’s not surprising to have some negative reactions to new high-tech tools for art-making, especially by people with little understanding of how those tools actually work. It’s rare that an art critic has any background in programming or, usually, even in any of the sciences. I think CP Snow’s two-culture problem is alive and well. With NFTs, there is the additional issue that the technology can be seen as directly threatening existing power structures in the art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"994bddcc83ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"936c18deb32c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Some of the strong responses are merited. With early digital art and current new technologies, experimentation is often mixed in with more mature art practices, and it can be difficult to discern where quality lies. When critics saw early computer art shows that mixed together the works of practicing artists with those of designers and scientists, it often led to confusion about the validity of the medium. Similarly, the low barrier to entry that NFTs offer means that collectors must sift through an enormous number of images, many of which wouldn’t pass muster in the art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"24ee491ae64b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8e6f27fb4dc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"NFTs also have many unresolved technical issues, for example, such as how one can protect one’s collection from scammers. Will quantum computers render current cryptography obsolete? Is the blockchain I’m minting on stable and will it exist in 20 years? There are many questions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a20a827bd63d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Hyperspace Interceptor 456/501, Fields Frigate 277/501,and Outerspace Renaissance 340/501 from the AI SPACESHIPS drop, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1b0a1335e7109f46650f4fffb8d266820286acd4-1483x518-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1b0a1335e7109f46650f4fffb8d266820286acd4-1483x518-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"d130b20b7002","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9ed2b43c1f5c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ba696d7eaadc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you learn about NFTs? Hearing that you weren’t convinced by computers in the beginning, what were your first thoughts?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c5e9fe0f0c85","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"526e4560ee430","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: It was late 2020, and I was asked to participate in a Zoom panel on COLLECTING NFTS. This was mid-pandemic, and since there wasn’t much to do, I was saying yes to every talk invite. Only later did I realize I had no idea what N. F. T. stood for. As with digital art in general, when I first read about them, I was skeptical. Why would anyone want to pay to download someone’s Instagram post? What is a blockchain? But the more I read, spoke with people, and investigated, the more enamored I became of the whole idea. When I created my first NFT and it sold within a week, I became a convert. There was no production cost, no shipping, no customs, and I got paid right away. It was heavenly. I also got to know my collectors through direct communication. The first time I received royalties on a piece, I woke up and saw funds in my wallet. I was moved to tears. I really thought this was the future. I find it tragic that royalties have all but disappeared."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3317cd0cc8e5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"602138bc1e37","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2d78ac00a4400","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you know you wanted to be an artist working with technology?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7a4ea8640095","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"597181766e6d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: As discussed earlier, I had started using the computer in earnest in my art in graduate school and was fascinated with all the amazing things it would do. I could experiment with color endlessly and not end up with a muddy green; I could redraw and erase without scratching a hole in my paper—the flexibility and power were astounding. I wanted to learn more and tried to take a class in the subject, but there were none. The head of graduate studies suggested that I teach a seminar. It was a little bit of one-eyed leading the blind, but teaching made me focus, learn in an intensive manner, and appreciate the digital even more."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"400fa07b5903","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d1b828273079","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8cf68dff3a850","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you get started? And did it help you to be in touch with all these pioneers and hear from them about the challenges of being an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c3c30359f38b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1b3d02e0f4ee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I began working on the book because I couldn’t find all the resources I needed to teach my class. This led to the interviews, so I was already using the computer in my art at that time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"29c04bbefba6","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Destination Unknown, solo exhibition at Saint Kate Hotel, Milwaukee, WI, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3989aacc0a667425854cefa84aca7ceab99d223d-1500x1125-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3989aacc0a667425854cefa84aca7ceab99d223d-1500x1125-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"636f7c5bbb41","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"30cf913fe64b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1cd07d8918f20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Who is the artist that influenced you the most and that you might even consider a mentor?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c73f18e2c347","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a149fbc96f250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I found the pioneering computer artists' work inspiring because they faced such extreme challenges. While I might want a more powerful personal computer or larger screen, they often had to work on mainframes in industry labs and, in the beginning, had no screens (!) The artwork that has most inspired me is traditional, however, and I’d say especially artists who work with color, like Hans Hoffman, Howard Hodgkins, Stanley Whitney, and Bonnard. I love drawing and am a big fan of Odilon Redon (I just saw a great show of his in Paris) and Robert Longo. I also respond to works with specific geometries, probably related to my being a math major, which explains my fondness for Tibetan art mandalas and a lot of digital and generative art such as that by Vera Molnar and Jean-Pierre Hebert. I also love painters who just have a crazy affinity for paint, like Malcolm Morely, and tried-and-true greats such as Sargent."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2004ce418714","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"66ac75ea3b41","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b08da70bdf830","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I have just been to Paris and visited a solo show by Vera Molnár with old and new work in a gallery. How do you explain her work to someone who doesn’t know about generative art? I’ve taken photos at the exhibition and have shown them to friends with a background in digital art, and they were like, Ok, so she has been interested in the cross since the 1950s and now still draws crosses by hand."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f2dab3721d08","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4c0bc19232730","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I would say she’s a constructivist who began as a traditional artist, creating specific geometric forms and arrangements of forms, and then discovered the joy of using systems to design those compositions. She created and implemented these systems by hand. When she discovered computers, she realized she could accelerate her artistic project by orders of magnitude, trying more things faster and exploring the nature of the systems and their output throughout a range impossible to ever achieve by hand. I don’t think she views the computer as antagonistic to hand-painted or hand-drawn art work, just as a tool to further her intellectual and visual inquiries. Just as one might enjoy travel and realize that taking a jet plane sometimes will allow you to see more places than only walking."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e42bfc60c01a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7bbbf6ebe8a3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fec4250a99c20","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Speaking about creating by hand, in your most recent works for your solo exhibition titled ART FOX at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin, you chose painting as the main medium. When I invited you to the exhibition, your first response was that you would like to show paintings. Why this traditional medium?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f7e34c5ec037","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e708d257345f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I think the world of NFTs is in flux, and it's important to try to bridge the blockchain space and traditional art worlds. My daughter is studying education and introduced me to a great term, the Zone of Proximal Development. Its essence, as I understand it, is the common sense theory that you can't easily understand something completely foreign; you have to build on what you know. I think of it like placing stones to make an arch. You can’t just have them hanging in space; they have to connect. So if someone unfamiliar with the digital art space encounters a time-based NFT using AI, they may completely dismiss it. But if they encounter an AI-influenced composition in the form factor of a hand-created oil painting, there’s a cognitive entry point, something familiar to connect and build on."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b3a484c31ca0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"89d9277a40a00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I also chose a theme for the show that directly addresses the use of technology in art and the ways that we create value in our culture. The variety of media in the show explores this idea and how the art world may value, say, painting over video or art on an NFT platform."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1c02da10eca4","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Matching the colors created by AI.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8df4756bed5482d432e5ebde4734d50cddfa0f32-1500x1125-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8df4756bed5482d432e5ebde4734d50cddfa0f32-1500x1125-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"28d125974bd0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6c28a359f984","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc2894958ae90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you feel about creating paintings in comparison to working on digital artworks?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"68220963dcfb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ed46692fe7b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: My art training was all traditional, so I enjoy working with paint or charcoal just as much as with Photoshop, After Effects, or AI. The painting compositions were all created with a process that involved text-to-image AI, so I feel as if they have a digital component to them. Paint lets me further the composition and color gamut in ways I wouldn’t be able to digitally: many paint colors simply cannot be reproduced on a screen or printed, and things occur to me when touching a surface with a sensitive hand-held tool like a brush and complex medium like paint that just would not happen with a mouse or table on a screen. On the other hand, I was able to do things in the time-based NFT works that built on the same initial AI compositions, which would not have been possible with paint."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"420997966549","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Sky Spiral and Financial Fables, oil paint on sized paper, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77825e4a7b903467e7a9d172d91da33113583b7e-1076x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77825e4a7b903467e7a9d172d91da33113583b7e-1076x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8307712753930","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"79486e075f2d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0e86544e74ba","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e52b20324e510","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: AI is the most recent technology that caught your attention a while ago. You tweeted a few weeks ago: “AI might be the most important technical advancement in artmaking since paint got put into tubes.” What are the reasons?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"33cbe7be3956","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4892f2cc66a90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: Each new technology has met with resistance, and the most recent technology to draw ire has been artificial intelligence (AI). AI raises issues of copyright, authenticity, and the nature of human creativity that were not even imaginable a few years ago. In ART FOX, I explore some of these by using text-to-image AI to create the initial compositions. By using this technology, I feel I am drawing on the collective vision of millions of people—a collective visual unconscious that Carl Jung would have been fascinated by. Of course, automation depends not only on advanced mathematics and powerful computers but also on an untold number of hours of human labour—time spent tagging images (whether explicitly for machine learning or in the course of captioning images that appear on the web and are then scraped)."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8b8d555d7b3f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6b49e3400f800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Have I given up some creative ownership of the work by doing this? Should I be sharing credit with the companies creating these tools? Or perhaps with the people who created the images that fed the models? (This question seems especially relevant if other artists' names are used in the prompts.)"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"caf3666f6387","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6c4b33e97d230","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Is there a difference between an image used directly from a prompt and one adjusted afterward? In ART FOX, most of the images went through a series of prompts on more than one AI platform, followed by revisions and hand-adjustments in Photoshop, as well as additional AI tools."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e7d2e1613ead","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ccf271029010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since I painted some of the images by hand afterwards, how does that change their value and perception? Some of the paintings were created in China, and my hand never touched them at all. Can viewers discern which ones? How does this affect how one values and understands them? Are they worth less? Or perhaps more because they even better comment on the theme of the show and the subject matter depicted?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6a74233e2183","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dc7686b101830","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For the 3D pieces, selected sections of the oil paintings were put through an AI extractor that automatically created 3D models. It was delightful to see my paintings move into another dimension in this way, but would the sculptures be viewed differently if I had designed them from scratch without AI? And what if I had modelled them in clay and cast them instead of using 3D printing? Each technology and process affects people's understanding and valuation of the work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4fe954de42bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a365a4678e7c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We may be headed towards a future in which AI will be more than a creative partner, making exceptional art on its own. How will that be assessed?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b2b72fb6523c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"874e1cc10f9a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e1b7d1df82a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you have answers for yourself to the questions you raised above?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d82e07f4ef4b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6fdaadf88340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I don’t personally value digital art or 3D-printed sculptures differently from more traditional media. And perhaps not surprisingly, I think of all the work in the show as interesting and worth collecting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"49ccb99caa44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6b302b2a34560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The answers about the eventual role of AI really get at the heart of what art is and what an artist does. Can art exist without an artist? It's like a Zen koan. While I am continually amazed at the quality of images I see coming out of AI programs, I am on the side of the necessity of an artist—and in fact, perhaps a definition of art as something a person does primarily for themselves, as a method of self-discovery, to increase one’s level of consciousness and discover something about one’s self. Hopefully, a critic or collector sees that process unfolding over years of an artist’s practice. The audience—collectors, critics, the art market, etc.—are a bit like the target an archer shoots at, but, as in the Zen and the Art of Archery book, a great archer can shoot blindfolded because, in some sense, the target is really internal. So even if machines can eventually create aesthetically compelling images somehow entirely on their own, it may not matter."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dc76e8f1f0ee","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Vacation Planet installation, Brooklyn, NY , USA, 2020. 8,300 square foot immersive artwork combining digital and analog art practices and featuring components like real tropical plants and an ocean soundscape, combined with sun-emulating washer lights and digitally printed spheres up to 16 feet in diameter.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bf528aab962650b5b46a51a7dc4f435c2618e3c1-1500x948-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bf528aab962650b5b46a51a7dc4f435c2618e3c1-1500x948-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"e8cd2d1ff23f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bea57d4fcf8c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b15633554610","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: That said, what is the role of an artist in the age of AI? Your exhibition, ART FOX, feels like you are telling a story while at the same time raising questions about the topic of value. How did you approach working on this exhibition?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e52008e293e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"384e9948d7680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: I almost never initiate art projects from a narrative framework, but for this show, I was thinking about ways in which we create or extract value in artmaking and beyond. The works are narrative in an abstract sense—somewhat like Medieval paintings that use a strange (non-linear perspective) sense of space to create different areas of action in the picture plane."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af74926861d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cb1a6e0beffd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Almost all the pieces explore processes of diamond mining and rare earth mineral extraction, which have been fraught both in terms of human labor issues and also in their relationship to climate change. Mining is the world’s fifth-largest industry. While there is an argument that rare earth minerals are needed for the very technologies that could eventually be used to address climate change, diamonds are another story. Although there are industrial uses for diamonds, do we really need them for jewelry? What motivates digging for something simply because it looks beautiful and we assign it some abstract value? For me, subterranean exploration for valuable substances also works as a metaphor for creativity itself, where we look inward and explore our subconscious for ideas."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5391d3d09927","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"040ea4f9e4060","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fox is a crafty character throughout literature and seemed perfect as an avatar to explore this theme. In addition, in a post-armageddon world, probably only animals and insects will remain, not humans."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8db9de9ba233","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f55672f6e82a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Using text-to-image AI, I let the results inspire and guide me, so in many ways, ART FOX is a journey on which I am a passenger, like any visitor to the exhibition."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bc4dff2dd3c6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"72dd6d553609","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0de6c181be010","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’ve chosen a playful approach with a cute fox as the main character to speak about values and AI. Is the role of an artist also to be an educator? For example, to discuss new technologies and the concerns and fears that can come with these inventions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"04caa741accb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1985870c02e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: The best educators are perennial students, and such is my approach to ART FOX, allowing the FOXes to teach and guide me as I go along for the journey. I hope the works inspire thought and discussion without being overly didactic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"96e19c9eb4e5","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Bit by Bit: Digging Deeper, oil on canvas, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d0d2c20e3c22c12ee1315c19e71a7a2bd8adbff2-1431x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d0d2c20e3c22c12ee1315c19e71a7a2bd8adbff2-1431x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8307492684042","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"1d520497ada3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"65b5f4b31e65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6add7793ed9e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your hope for the future when it comes to art and technology?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"68e39c1d1d52","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2b5d02d35400","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AS: Art and technology may be the keys to our survival in the face of the most profound threats to life the earth has ever known. Or it may peak with Candy Crush before the apocalypse sets in. Our actions reflect our values and will determine the future we all must live in."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"11a7abb5233a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"97181646ca02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7d5af3ef05f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4f7108df0e92","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"f17a17f68c80","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"3ae8b4e5-324d-4741-b03d-f0cf7f18047e","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"2131da199589","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"bbc747030b90","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-504391139594","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"cb0f1d0a2fde","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8273006461194","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"05a732a77189","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"3815f273d0b4","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"60972ec4-6dc0-4b46-b4ab-b168986f5c1f","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"9a24b40dd5bf","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"b13fccc64c06","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"640b1ce2-f7bd-4ea9-a555-b390a4ccef19","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"e78b8fb3b5cf","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"ed8b5da9-68b4-499a-81c9-3961d1b57935","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"efeda5ae4bbc","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"3dd054a2-0115-4aa9-9969-6d9c0c51a604","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"75f6d4515e1e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"95ebe0ec-a838-403e-9ee5-1356cee38074","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"278de1adb8d0","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"56af59a9c1ae","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e640ffbe-945a-4cd5-bdd3-b9f40df63c89","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-11-26T08:45:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Anne Spalter knows how to help herself. 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She has always known that she was meant to be an artist, but she didn’t think she could make a living from it. Besides photography, she found other ways to be creative, such as playing in the band Satellite Young. Emi dressed up as an 80s idol and sang about technology. When Emi started working with AI, she understood that knowledge and taste are reflected in art more profoundly than ever before. She imagines fictional pasts and futures inspired by Japanese Futurism and subcultures, advocating for a mindful engagement with the world around us."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0ddbd2f6e249","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb2f04ffb9d40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Emi Kusano discusses retrofuturism and nostalgia, street photography and AI, mass media and social media, feminism, and the digital art market."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"4fe60e5b77ed","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89f7ba6cc291","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3089c92394880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Emi, you are a musician and an artist. But you started your career as a fashion street photographer in the late 2000s. How did you get into fashion photography?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ce78795160d5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cfa1aa465f650","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Emi Kusano: I was born and raised in Tokyo, but in 2007, I went to study in Utah, USA, for a year. When I came back, I was shocked by Tokyo's unique fashion culture, where each train station seemed to have its own fashion tribe, each with its own distinct aspirations, reflected in a diverse magazine culture. I started working as a street photography site photographer, using the DSLR camera I got for my birthday. This was my first job."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"18500aaf96e3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano with her camera in 2009. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6f24c36c6c84e96b8f9e9374e899fea7f496805e-555x520-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6f24c36c6c84e96b8f9e9374e899fea7f496805e-555x520-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"94189966ad91","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7000bbf2892f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a894802543b40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What have you learned from fashion street photography that is now helpful for you as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"bacad759bf59","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6b9866a53590","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I was actively taking photos from 2007 to around 2010. What I felt during that time has become the foundation of my creativity today. Around the time I graduated high school in 2009, social media was on the rise, and fast fashion was becoming widely popular. The colorful fashion of the youths I saw in 2007 had, by the time I graduated, shifted to Normcore, with trends globalizing and everyone starting to wear brands like Zara and H&M, leading to the decline of many fashion tribes."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2302cc34f956","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f440b1c1f9b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As for the technical aspects of photography, I wasn’t able to master them, but the sensation of wanting to capture the essence of a world’s inhabitants instantaneously feels quite similar to when I’m creating works with AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"00dc7d0cf403","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3b9b434be66a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Furthermore, since my childhood, before I even started photography, I was a fan of 1980s idols and 1960s special effects animations. I've always wondered why I was drawn to such retro things. I've realized that the aspiration culture formed by mass media in each era is something that couldn't happen in today's era, where everyone follows various influencers on social media. This realization has become an inspiration for my creations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a5d24a04c0c2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7074db94b463","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a84e28645620","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Aren’t artists also influencers in the age of social media?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d00d0f936eb0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"872dd4aa8ac30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Absolutely, I believe so. The mindset in a world dominated solely by mass media versus one where social media exists is vastly different. Not just in pure, traditional art, but across all content creators, we're seeing the emergence of globally niche scenes, transcending borders to form small communities with diverse genres. Previously, specific scenes might have been localized to areas in London or around a station in Tokyo, but now there's a sense of multiple global niche streets existing virtually. The proximity to the audience has changed, allowing for immediate feedback, which indeed makes it an era where anyone can become an artist. Charisma has become democratized, and AI accelerates this, democratizing aesthetics and craft. As audiences can infinitely generate content they wish to see, the role of artists might also change."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"876acd7d317f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Synthetic Reflection #6, AI generation, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6b35f1c0ae77dd61f72e88a2f58a3178997f127a-1792x2688-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-6b35f1c0ae77dd61f72e88a2f58a3178997f127a-1792x2688-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"1a16e4e28682","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"655aa3745b9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2c15a16a6aef0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you know you wanted to be an artist? And has it always been clear to you that you want to be a visual artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b71421cf5778","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"97b4a37094760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: First, as both of my parents were artists, I've always known since childhood that I was meant to be an artist. Until middle school, I was the best at drawing in my class. However, seeing my parents' financial struggles, I thought it would be difficult to make a living with art alone, so I didn't pursue an art college but went to a technology university and joined a design branding lab. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b350147abe9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"077d2d8bc64f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Nevertheless, I've always found myself engaging in creative activities, not just photography. I also performed in a music unit called Satellite Young, dressing up as an 80s idol and singing about technology. Additionally, I've created installation art featuring artificial life forms. Consistently, my theme has always been about creating a retro-futuristic world, and this motivation to create such worlds has always driven me."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"306debf12107","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Satellite Young is a Japanese synth wave band founded by Emi Kusano and BelleMaison Sekine in 2013.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-aa325903732cf5bcb487a02a98c989b6e05077ed-5760x3840-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-aa325903732cf5bcb487a02a98c989b6e05077ed-5760x3840-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"21b616d8d3ee","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"591549210398","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dbd6cb8df8e70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’ve mentioned two decades: the 1960s and the 1980s. Why these decades? And what can we learn from these decades? Are there any artists from these decades that have had an influence on your work as a musician and an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"88c0e7d98b9f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86840fdc33630","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I also like the 1950s, 1970s, and 1990s. It's easy to imagine the fashion and music of each era; maybe that's why everyone wants to time-travel. Since the spread of the internet, that clear, mass-experienced aesthetic seems to be disappearing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"683f9d5cb5d0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ea5ed6f1e1340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, when I became conscious of it, it was the 1960s. I watched a lot of 1960s cartoons and loved the streamlined design of the Jetsons. I played with a reissued Blythe doll dressed in a Mondrian dress and made lots of 1960s-style clothes for dolls."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"44f245f326a6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e0ddf4ec52c90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As for music, I love the 1980s the most, especially catchy mainstream songs. I've been listening to Kylie Minogue and Journey since I was a kid. I also love 1980s Japanese idols. Now, looking back, the flamboyance and prosperity of this era seem to define its aesthetic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"af31e3e50268","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0e1375f220960","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"When I was little, I loved Fujio Akatsuka's magical girl genre manga and anime, \"Himitsuno Akko-chan (Akko-chan's Secret),\" the precursor to Sailor Moon. I watched the 2000 version of Akko-chan, but the original was from the '60s, and it was also animated in the '80s, each with slightly different settings, personalities, or parents' occupations, which I enjoyed comparing. I also loved Powerpuff Girls, collected the comics, and learned English from Powerpuff Girls. It's a 2000s show but has '60s illustrations, and I loved the maniac settings like Beatles trivia."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"01b7cb4612a2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e5428d5db2b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2047abd3f1c30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In the age of artificial intelligence, it’s somehow possible to travel in time. Everyone can ask Midjourney to imagine any era we can think of for creating images that reference films, music, art, and fashion. For your solo exhibition titled COGNITIVE CHAOS at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin, you traveled back in time to the 1970s with the present and future in mind."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5220b677ab13","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"693d5fb7649a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: The theme of my current body of work is Japan in the 1970s. The 1970s had occult and paranormal phenomena in the mainstream, not just subculture, and I hear Japan was enveloped in anxiety due to the oil shock and pollution. We might be experiencing something even more severe with the COVID-19 pandemic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f06398b2332d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d889c5d28dd80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"COGNITIVE CHAOS also draws inspiration from Japan in the era leading up to the bubble economy's collapse in the 1970s and 1980s, projecting contemporary values onto the fervor and occult culture of that time. Back then, the prophecies of Nostradamus were taken seriously, and conspiracy theories about aliens were featured during prime time on television. It captures the Japanese Futurism of that era while simultaneously paralleling the modern AI era, marked by the rise of Vision Pro and Deepfakes. Examples include young people experiencing bubbles and virtual glasses in a bathhouse, a half-android woman posing in front of the latest television equipment, and a full-body-suited virtual human spotted in a video store."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"75ce0b38b685","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusani, Cognitive Chaos #20, AI generation, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-986134f24b9006c0c118567e6ae703afd04079a6-3584x5376-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-986134f24b9006c0c118567e6ae703afd04079a6-3584x5376-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-518619955466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"729b2e610bec","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4e1f7212c0a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ac98d38839c10","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You weren't born in the 1970s. How do you approach working on a project like COGNITIVE CHAOS?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3d007d04a345","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aac7335b36a80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Yes, for the 1970s lifestyle, I heard stories from my mother. I also referred to domestic Japanese archives like horror manga by Kazuo Umezu, popular around that time, and occult magazines like Mu. There's a cafe near my house with a vast archive of magazines, where I occasionally look at photos."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2e7cd4d3c495","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7d562fe1c1c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, the materials used in the stable diffusion SDL and MidJourney I'm currently using are heavily skewed towards Western data, so a complete reproduction isn't possible, leading me mostly to create new things from my imagination."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"202bf006ce61","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Cognitive Chaos #22, AI generation, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1ff426b67eb8305277da9e73ad7a0e5ca622d3d7-1279x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-1ff426b67eb8305277da9e73ad7a0e5ca622d3d7-1279x1920-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-518619955466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"6c0a3ce7d1c9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"50b5ccfe7448","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a9f0300b1cd00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What does this, the Western perspective, reflect in your process of working with Midjourney and Stable Diffusion?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f7135a2d26b4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4423a04ed3780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7267e958da53","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a566df89b550","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Working with large-scale AI models like Midjourney and Stable Diffusion indeed makes it easier to draw upon globally recognized aesthetic genres like glam rock. However, it's more challenging to reflect very localized and specific trends like Japan's \"Takenoko-zoku\" without the models having a direct understanding of these subcultures. To express these unique facets of Japanese subculture, I often have to get creative with the prompts, using a combination of existing English words in innovative ways. This process of adapting and combining prompts to hint at specific subcultural elements is a fascinating aspect of my work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7d088df9eadb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Pixelated Perception #23, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-853b3f6000aaa7fee74c6828e3e4d0bc129706ab-1024x683-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-853b3f6000aaa7fee74c6828e3e4d0bc129706ab-1024x683-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"813aca5ba5f8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"04bfd90b15c3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aa70a7ca0aca0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are retrofuturism and nostalgia an escape from today’s fast-paced life?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8a9165b5e124","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bfca9541d8f60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Retrofuturism and nostalgia offer us a lens to reexamine our perceptions, acting not as an escape but as a bridge connecting our past experiences with current and future innovations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ae2872b4e903","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c04becded0550","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Observing the rebellious spirit of the past's youth—their hope for the future, their enthusiasm, and their despair—evokes a curious sense of nostalgia, even for eras we haven't lived through. Watching these images might be an attempt to grasp the brevity of our own lives or explore the essence of humanity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"961687efd221","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ec99a223fbcc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The fictional futures imagined by me or science fiction writers could be seen as extensions of current realities or mirrors reflecting them. After all, the present I'm living in will be considered part of the past from a future perspective."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b3c5fd8f7b57","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Neural Fad #70, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77985b4b4e6cc1c77bdff5d1cf2f4d0cfd37af4c-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77985b4b4e6cc1c77bdff5d1cf2f4d0cfd37af4c-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"d50b6399ac8e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b3c457fc2370","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72ab3d491a640","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are there lessons we can learn from looking at generations before that have imagined the future of art and technology?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9d8333e16430","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"176cb704bb460","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Exploring different eras and regions allows us to embark on parallel journeys, revealing the cycles of innovation and societal hopes and fears unique to each. This exploration also provides an opportunity to examine what is universal and delve into human nature."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"29cfbbb48a77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9ef0ae00cb1c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Historically, both utopian and dystopian visions have been portrayed, reflecting the circumstances of their times. Many scientists who develop technologies today are likely influenced by such fictional futures, motivating their real-world actions. Understanding the impact of AI and brain technology is crucial. The future is shaped by creative inspiration, with contemporary scientists and innovators drawing from novels, movies, and animations. We must also consider various potential futures, both utopian and dystopian."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"534954fe3677","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"3320b1025bac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a807d431f8330","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As an artist, you do not limit yourself and seem to be an explorer. You’ve been part of the team of Shinsei Galverse, a 1990s-style anime that includes a PFP collection; you have created three AI collections, two of them with Bright Moments; and you have released a generative art project titled MELANCHOLIC MAGICAL MAIDEN on Art Blocks Curated. What drives your curiosity and creativity as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"09375c214302","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"84ed85e8af110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I have a strong desire to experiment with various mediums as an artist, but above all, I value concepts. Consistently, I've harbored a desire to create and inhabit a fictional past. This has evolved as I continue to ponder the purpose behind my creations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"28ba2f83b05b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ec6adcb2eec0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"AI artworks were my first solo creations, but typically, I've collaborated with others. From installations with engineers and architects to sharing melodies with music producers or concepts with music video directors, collaboration has been central. Even my initial work as a photographer was dependent on the subjects I wanted to capture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"48c18c2182ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"55f603ae23680","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Galverse started as a crowdfunding project for an anime before I knew of NFTs, intended as a sci-fi anime starring my music video character, created with director Ayaka. Though I've stepped back as an executive due to my solo activities, I'm excited to see it complete, as I was heavily involved in the scriptwriting."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d6745897517c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6798cb8a149c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"MELANCHOLIC MAGICAL MAIDEN was a significant challenge, blending coding and blockchain in a highly conceptual manner, embodying the essence of NFTs, a field I was eager to explore and developed concurrently with studying AI over two years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"99ce7d303d4c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Melancholic Magical Maiden, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9ed504e303794e12dee3e09b493676b990b88820-1280x961-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9ed504e303794e12dee3e09b493676b990b88820-1280x961-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"3ec740c52ad7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"73b8c0942706","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ccedbd0c8a60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You describe MELANCHOLIC MAGICAL MAIDEN as an “artwork that reveals the duality of magic and reality, mirroring your childhood memories with magical girls.\" Would you describe yourself as a feminist artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e360a8c0f4ef","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ee353a435a7f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: I consider myself a feminist artist. Much of my work reflects on the past to challenge gender roles, always aiming for inclusivity to ensure everyone, regardless of gender or attributes, has equal rights."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dc3719670049","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a9a376aed91a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, my approach isn’t merely about being politically correct. I’m both critical and captivated by the past, finding it crucial to explore this duality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1cde0517b3c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"30eb7615a56c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Human ethics are evolving, and instead of cancelling everything, it’s vital to reflect gradually. Magical Girl anime from our childhood, for example, showcased strong female figures, yet some narratives focused on traditional roles."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"efbf99a16d4e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b7e320d7efbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I can’t dismiss what I loved as a child and still respect its aesthetics. I adore feminine attire and parody girly 1980s Japanese female idols. Western dolls like Barbie, despite promoting lookism, are also empowered through various careers. The self-parody in revisiting these themes suggests that raising voices against wrongs was crucial in the past decade, but in the divided 2020s, reconstructing past entertainment might inspire change."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"57fa5b0c2800","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"245de1fe18bc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"def5129d6c000","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You’ve started as a street photographer working with a camera and now create images without having to leave the house. Do you see parallels between working with a camera and using AI as a tool?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"199dff40fe79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e8f11e268fd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: When it comes to the similarities between photography and AI generation, both mediums allow us to view the world through the creator's narrative. This is a key similarity. Additionally, both allow for endless opportunities to capture moments, yet the need to select from these captures is a shared challenge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b737f9c7cb6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"10c382fa61450","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, the major difference lies in post-photography through generative AI, where an individual's knowledge and taste are reflected more profoundly than ever before. This distinction enables the visualization of narratives set in fictional parallel worlds that have previously remained unexplored. Such advancements, I believe, mark a significant revolution."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88d285ab935a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Neural Fad #50, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-eaad05118293e78218cf31420432f7e486ef3536-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-eaad05118293e78218cf31420432f7e486ef3536-1024x1024-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"7264afb68f71","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d2ab6a94cbfd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb6ebaa9878a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your response to critics saying images created with AI aren’t art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5a0c77e5c3c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c263398ee3f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Facing the critique that \"AI isn't art,\" it’s essential to remember that historically, what was once dismissed often ends up defining the future of art. Notably, Banksy was viewed as a vandal and Warhol as too commercial, yet both are now icons of art history. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1ddc7ed63ac6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"92da733f5f51","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This pattern shows that art criticized for not fitting traditional definitions frequently becomes pivotal. In working with AI, we're at the cutting edge of contemporary art, pushing boundaries and expanding what art can be. Critics might see AI as a shortcut, missing the depth of interaction and intention artists bring to guide AI towards meaningful creations. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2dd920b8e927","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"112fb4ad7602","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Art is about challenging perceptions and exploring new frontiers. If AI creations can provoke thought and evoke emotion, they deserve recognition as art. Like Banksy and Warhol, we're exploring new territories, proudly contributing to the evolution of art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7647bcf863a9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"27ca266022e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"07090f9d60fd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Speaking of Banksy and Warhol, has the role of the artist in the age of AI changed?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5241bf455c43","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b39df5d189fd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: The democratization of aesthetics through AI has certainly transformed the role of the artist. Just as Banksy and Warhol revolutionized the accessibility and distribution of art in their times, AI empowers modern artists to visualize narratives from every angle, introducing unprecedented diversity to art. In the near future, the lines between creators and viewers may blur further, with viewers potentially crafting their own experiences through the lens of an artist's custom AI model. This shift is poised to redefine the creative landscape, making art creation and appreciation more interactive and personalized."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"35fcdf5d1bd3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Emi Kusano, Pixelated Perception #10, AI generation, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-cd0c4e8613b47982afeb4149538fa15a558600a9-1024x683-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-cd0c4e8613b47982afeb4149538fa15a558600a9-1024x683-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"1f64fcde224f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"fb1e537bda2b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"579e39f68c5c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Which artists do have a significant influence on your artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"05b14f4b3a21","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"edad563fa5550","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Mariko Mori has been a significant influence on my artistic practice. Her work in the 1990s, which intricately wove together technology and spirituality, often featured her as various fictional characters and mythical entities. Her approach to 'cosplay' in art, where she explores visual culture, history, and the future while crossing the boundaries of self-identity, has inspired my exploration of similar themes in my own work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"623bdbc46671","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"679622f22d91","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"20661504ecf40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: With NFTs, digital art is now part of the art market. When you create an NFT collection, do you have the art market in mind?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"be24525dfdd3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"308b6e3d09cf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Certainly, marketing in the artistic sphere is often undervalued, yet I see it as crucial. When buying art, personal appreciation is paramount, followed by the artist's skill in marketing. My ambition is to keep creating into my later years; thus, I craft my works with market support in mind, having had wonderful encounters with collectors worldwide."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8c798f67fe36","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c1ab7148b0b30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I focus on offering a range of artworks at varying prices and ensuring past works are accessible on my website. While considering tokenomics to avoid oversaturation, my desire to be prolific persists, aiming to one day present a vast variety of my works at a museum."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2414e5cb1b91","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ae5b762eddac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e72bf447bff0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your advice for artists who are thinking about embracing NFTs and AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"65a0b95df47e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2b983dca62ba0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"EK: Keeping up with new tools and finding expression through them can be exciting, offering the potential to capture attention. However, creating timeless work likely involves reflecting your personal experiences and thoughts within a strong message. It's crucial to contemplate the underlying message of your art. Don't be deterred by a lack of technical savvy; even simple tools like Chat GPT can produce unique pieces. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"735b4f51ae40","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"42f9142c0b6b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Recently, the ability to craft complex custom models was highly valued, but not anymore, as demonstrated by artists like "},{"_key":"f47d0ea8c22c","_type":"span","marks":["0cc6e4cf2c11"],"text":"Niceaunties"},{"_key":"2bffe4b2a617","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":". The power of prompting is immense; try spending a day experimenting with it."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"0cc6e4cf2c11","_type":"link","href":"https://www.expanded.art/artists/niceaunties"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"833d64053c26","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"a97448cd7813","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"69ed4e7e-75c3-4ec0-8534-7d8cfc5bc740","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"ffae993dfdfa","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"c099e9e3f5af","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-518619955466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"a800cf012f41","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8517835555082","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"c03cc591a9c7","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-536769724682","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"e240ad8ec485","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"39338ca77df2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"d5fef73d-0423-4855-8453-31a0c68ab58d","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"98bad20e1a27","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-04-08T19:15:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Emi Kusano’s first job was taking fashion photos in the streets of Tokyo. She has always known that she was meant to be an artist, but she didn’t think she could make a living from it. Besides photography, she found other ways to be creative, such as playing in the band Satellite Young. Emi dressed up as an 80s idol and sang about technology. When Emi started working with AI, she understood that knowledge and taste are reflected in art more profoundly than ever before. She imagines fictional pasts and futures inspired by Japanese Futurism and subcultures, advocating for a mindful engagement with the world around us.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Emi Kusano discusses retrofuturism and nostalgia, street photography and AI, mass media and social media, feminism, and the digital art market.","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-91160821853acae2c5022f2364bdaea82ae1a33b-3466x3466-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"interview-emi-kusano"},"store":null,"subtitle":"AI AND NOSTALGIA ","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-91160821853acae2c5022f2364bdaea82ae1a33b-3466x3466-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"EMI KUSANO: FICTIONAL FUTURES AND COGNITIVE CHAOS"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"c9e3b4c7d7dc","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-01T14:28:46Z","_id":"09ee619d-c800-4035-a876-9e2e03db943b","_rev":"gCOgyMqD3hiPHKLzDcSOqq","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T14:33:34Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b1458b81ae5e36e5eb5bae40fc63fe97149e3256-800x1421-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"79ad77cb5180","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"c2dfb21be21e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d1f74b1f28110","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"I will never forget the feeling of going for a walk for the first time with a Walkman and listening to a mixtape of my favorite songs. I must admit, it was a strange mix: Roxette and Nirvana, Silverchair, and things that were popular on the radio in the 1990s. The artist Skye Nicolas manages to bring these feelings back with his pixel paintings and readymades. It's not just seeing Walkman in his art. It's the song lyrics and the pixels. His art feels like a warm security blanket you didn't know you might have needed. "},{"_key":"beda362fa185","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n\nSkye and I met on the Internet a few years ago when Clubhouse was popular during the pandemic. People started speaking about NFTs, excitement was in the air. Skye and I were often in the same small Clubhouse rooms, getting involved in heated conversations about NFTs and the history of digital art. At some point, we figured out that we would much rather spend time with each other discussing 90s grunge music and playing guitar. \n\nFor EXPANDED.ART, we pretended we were back on Clubhouse and discussed urgent topics such as nostalgia and pixel paintings, crypto art and the metaverse, nature, and video games."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"8cc7afc2993f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"586f96cb01b5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b210318957dd","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Hello Skye!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a138dc11c936","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86d5c18fba3d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e4570a8fb0e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"85026fcc02d4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Skye Nicolas:"},{"_key":"b381d4b0a066","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" "},{"_key":"6d9d946c5c01","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Before you called, I was listening to music, and Nena’s \"99 Luftballons\" started playing on YouTube. Isn’t that crazy? The algorithms are getting smarter! (laughs) This might sound strange to you, but I get a bit teary-eyed when I hear that song. Nostalgia at work? Perhaps, but it’s not that simple. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"191da2acdc88","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5fee7bc515e3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For me, it’s one of those profound moments when a song changes meaning over time. Go over the song’s lyrics and juxtapose them with the current situation with Russia: the onset of a new cold war, the talk of a possible nuclear attack. From this perspective, it’s no longer an ordinary pop song—it’s just as relevant today as it was when it was first released forty years ago, in 1983. It’s this sort of strange skewing of timelines that permeates my work. You’re German, so your association with the song would be different. A well-known German pop singer's iconic 1980s song, probably relegated to birthday parties and camp memories, but it's a magical song to me. As far as I can remember (as soon as the opening lyric lines come in), I feel as if aliens are speaking to me! (laughs) Hearing an unfamiliar language mixed in with an amazing sound—the track is full of atmosphere—as a child, it might as well have come from another planet! As someone who understands music production, I can now attribute most of that to the technical brilliance and quality of the songwriting and recording. The distinct reverb used for the vocals, the phrasing of the lyrics, the unique sounds that were layered in the instrumentation—the song transports me back to my childhood instantly. When I refer to nostalgia as a textural experience, \"99 Luftballons\" is one I always cite as a good example of this."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a154b2b02491","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9c7fda61457c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There is this thing called a \"paracosm,\" which I’ve been thinking about lately. A \"paracosm\" is a detailed imaginary world often created by children with a vivid imagination and an unbridled creative impulse. Some of these fantasy worlds can feel so real that one can mistake them for memories of the past. The seduction becomes even more powerful when fantasy fuses with emotions activated by nostalgia. Throughout the years, I come back to the same places in my dreams. Just to be clear, these places have never existed in my physical reality. I’ve come to the conclusion that these places occupy the same locality in my dreams, and I’d be able to map them out if I took the time to do so. There are so many things we have yet to understand in learning about the power of our mind and how we experience reality. With the advancement of technology, it appears that we are on the verge of integrating with these other forms of reality, or at the very least flirting with them... for the time being."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"65488ca98b99","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Skye Nicolas photographed by Alexandra Park.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b99978ad1b66a295928645b39de769ebcb2d18c8-1428x2028-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b99978ad1b66a295928645b39de769ebcb2d18c8-1428x2028-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"7fbee807fd92","_type":"moduleQuote","quote":"Nostalgia can be a warm security blanket."},{"_key":"f3f700004a8c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"99872d46ad2a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c913342c4677","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you know that I wanted to ask you a first question about what makes you feel nostalgic? (laughs) How do you define nostalgia?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7ca0a59dcfb2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ae56805ff834","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN:"},{"_key":"73ac05853092","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" "},{"_key":"6d7c6c860d56","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There are moments I feel like I’m living in a science fiction novel because I seem to travel between timelines with ease. People will often say: \"Oh, that was so long ago.\" I just don’t see it like that. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d94a4f6045b9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9b4ddfae2336","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Britpop in the mid-1990s gave birth to the New York post-punk scene in the early 2000s, which marked the beginning of a new life for me in New York. When I say I feel like a time traveler, I feel it’s as if I exist in all those places at once. The past and present collide, and I don’t feel as if there’s a discrepancy traversing between timelines. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"787770693df4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b4b346e1eabd","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since I was a kid, I've always been sensitive about absorbing material, whether it was music or something visual, paying attention to the finer details. When I recall the packaging of products that excite me, for example, I can tell you exactly what that feels like. It's almost like having synesthesia, or when a sommelier analyzes the bouquet of wine. There’s a symphony of details when recalling these experiences and this is what I mean when I say that nostalgia is a textural experience. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2991cea32507","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"54f93f08a3ce","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Certain objects, ephemera, music, films, and other content that were popular during one's childhood will always transport you back to that time and place. For most people, nostalgia is a trip into the past, a reminiscence of happier times, but there’s more to it. Nostalgia is not just a longing for an idealized past but a blueprint that allows us to better understand the powerful forces and events that have shaped our present selves."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2d65fe05a3a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ab9d2201c8a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The word’s etymology is derived from two words: \"nastos\" = homecoming, and \"algos\" = longing. In 1688, a Swiss medical student named Johannes Hofer observed this feeling in Swiss soldiers who were fighting abroad and were homesick during the war, and these soldiers reminisced on conditions before the war. This is medically known as \"the melancholy of war,\" and it makes us reflect on the inner conflict we are fighting within ourselves that activates nostalgia as a psychological means of coping, a survival mechanism that attempts to deal with whatever trauma the present has inflicted. As a response, we tend to hyperbolically exalt specific memories of our childhood. And very much like a computer program, it rewires our brain, reformatting it to highlight those memories that bring us comfort. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cf0360fc804e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"694680674331","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Of course, too much focus on the past and an unattended present have their consequences, which is why pop culture and entertainment are very addictive as they provide content that can be consumed instantly. In healthy doses, nostalgia can be a warm security blanket that allows us to heal, giving us the strength to take another step forward when dealing with anxieties about the future."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"653110833bae","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"559e336e6036","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc210be896c4","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What’s your earliest memory of art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7be1b16047f8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05be20164521","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: The first art book that was ever given to me was about the art of Paul Klee. It was a present from my mum when I was about five years old. The book is part of the \"Art for Children\" series by Ernest Raboff. Looking back, it was my first lesson in expressionism, cubism, surrealism, and an introductory primer on various painting techniques. Even at an early age, I felt that I naturally understood color theory, a subject that Klee is known to have extensively written about in his essays and lectures. The book opened up a dream world I could escape to, and it was like coming home to a place that felt familiar. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e4a1e708202b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1644c494cf1e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This feeling of belonging was made even more evident after my mother gifted me my first set of watercolors and oil pastels. I felt like I was speaking some kind of internal language through my drawings, and I'd emulate paintings I’d discover in the pages of encyclopedia volumes. I could somewhat feel the visual information I was absorbing. I was able to communicate with the birds, the fish, the animals, and the children who were integral characters in Klee’s paintings. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ad4b2ac19b81","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ebe13e47bdf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My mother taught literature at the state university. She was an artist herself, and a stage actress in her youth. Her younger brothers are iconic musicians; they are The Bee Gees of the Philippines, called VST & Company. I joined them on a mini tour in 2004 as one of the lead singers. It was a fantastic reliving of my childhood because I used to see them on television growing up, and suddenly there I was performing on stage with them. Everyone in their youth at some point dreams of being a rock star, right? You pick up the guitar as a teenager, and you daydream being on stage in front of thousands of adoring fans. It’s pretty incredible that it became a reality throughout several stages of my life. From my 1990s teeny pop band in Manila to my indie rock band in New York during the early 2000s."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"62d8b71c4f3a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":" Skye Nicolas, SANCTUARY #22 , 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-59978a49b59f6109bce7a56289dd132ff2fcba68-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-59978a49b59f6109bce7a56289dd132ff2fcba68-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"12b63b84c1f6","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"967f1e852d47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"27b1949e1dc1","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: It was okay for me to just play the guitar in my bedroom. I still have my Paul Reed Smith, covered with stickers, and took it out of the case for the first time in many years after one of our long phone calls about music. You grew up in the Philippines and moved to New York in the late 1990s. How did you go from music to art? And what led you from the Philippines to New York?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8f48dfbba10c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7244e12937e2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: I’ve always grown up around showbiz and creative energy. My uncles are music icons who were instrumental in shaping Philippine pop music. Their friends who hung out at my grandmother’s house became recording artists, producers, and actors. My mother went to school with individuals who became legendary Filipino film directors, poets, and literary giants. My godmother was a philanthropist, newspaper publisher, and a patron of the arts. That was the kind of environment I grew up in. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b56e4ddd5e97","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"96446f9f3bdf","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Sometime in the mid-90s, I auditioned to join the talent pool of the country’s biggest television network and movie studio. The acting workshop facilitated by the talent center is where I met my bandmates for what would become a teeny pop band–I was assigned to be the lead guitarist. We were the only local band that would guest on popular television shows without an album to promote. (laughs) After our first TV appearance, my life had somewhat changed overnight, and performing whether in front of an audience or camera crew gave me the confidence I never had. Though I experienced a momentary taste of moderate fame, we disbanded after only two years before we could record our first album. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"310ceb3aa5d8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"21fc4ed59b74","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Prior to the bright set lights and television appearances, I had already been an avid fan of the Philippine underground music scene during the late-80s. I became friends with members of seminal bands of the era, some of whom would later become 90s icons. The cool kids went to art school at the University of the Philippines, known to have the best fine arts program in the country. As students, we learned about painting and sculpture during the day, and at night we either played gigs at school events or went to see friends play at a club where all the top bands congregated."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f4b7fc51c774","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a0eab51bffc6","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I don’t think it was a conscious decision to become an artist. I simply felt that I was not good at anything else that wasn’t creative. Throughout elementary school and high school, I had always been known as the guy who could draw and won art competitions. That was my superpower as a shy and awkward kid who spoke very little. In college, art felt like home because those I looked up to and respected for their creativity went to art school. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"75c80ce27d26","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cdc7f809cb23","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For the record, the arts program was quite difficult to get into as the classes were limited to a few students. Only a handful of the hundreds of hopeful applicants were accepted each year. Though I was having the time of my life at uni, I had always dreamt of escaping. Financial hardship and several brushes with death make one dream of a better life elsewhere. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"33e6501c13ab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3d899f94e328","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1630703b2039","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f93a4ee380c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"51cad4012e580","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And what led you from the Philippines to New York?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1749c1abcc02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"70c529e1abce0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: When the opportunity presented itself, the U.S. seemed like an obvious move. I arrived in New York in the fall of 1997. Walking around Tompkins Square Park, St. Mark’s Place, and the Bowery made me think of Basquiat’s exploits in the East Village. I became a regular at the iconic Coffee Shop at Union Square, a spitting distance from The Factory where Warhol produced most of his silkscreen paintings. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b6f1b40e5c0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"680fe201751c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I was intoxicated by the pulsating late-90s vibe and all the romanticized stories of the city that had inspired many legendary creatives who came to New York to create. I wanted to live like my heroes, who stayed at the Chelsea Hotel, working on nothing else but their art. It was at the tail end of the city’s last great party era. Instead of just hearing stories about the myths told by larger-than-life personalities in books and documentary films, I soon found myself part of a scene much like Warhol’s Studio 54 days, but with different nightclubs, different music, and a different attitude. Tunnel, Limelight, Bungalow 8, Don Hill’s, Brownies–each night was an adventure. It was a chance to meet all kinds of characters, both famous and obscure, all working on some creative project. Meeting and partying with legendary photographer Peter Beard remains one of my fondest memories from those times, a uniquely New York moment. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d8784a0c8796","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bf2a4750d08d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It was perhaps the last breath of sex, drugs, and rock 'n’ roll before the scene exhausted itself, rolled over, and died. Whether I was a naive young immigrant infatuated with the city and its beautiful dwellers or a decadent libertine in the making, I thought, \"This is it! This is the place. This is what Basquiat and Warhol were doing!\" (laughs)"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"820cc5f50721","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Skye Nicolas, Dance Dance Dance , video still, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3f86232fbc4b9178655f7fc91ff19dc618be8a26-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3f86232fbc4b9178655f7fc91ff19dc618be8a26-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"40ca2bcdb79f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c1eb75a989fb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d95ca93745a1","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And when did you think: \"This is it! This is what I am doing with digital art!\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c2cfd45073e4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f7b74f39138f","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: Memories of early video games, whether on the Atari 2600, Apple II, or Nintendo Famicom, inspire the motifs that comprise the aesthetics of my digital work. Early internet culture – websites, chat programs, animated gifs and videos, opened up a galaxy of creative possibilities. It was in the early 2000s when I started remixing all kinds of digital content and began experimenting with digital media the moment the office where I worked as a web designer gave me a laptop. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f9da96af9594","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ae903ac9274","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since then, I’ve always observed the peripheries, looking out for new ways to exploit readily available technology. In 2016, I created \"SN. Sunday Journal – The world’s 1st Snapchat fashion zine\". The temporary nature of Snapchat’s self-deleting posts, conceptually, made it the perfect medium to mirror the printed punk rock ephemera I had collected in the 1980s and 1990s. Each transitory issue (published once every Sunday), could not be saved for later viewing. Eventually, volumes of these digitally ephemeral zines would only exist in the memories of its loyal subscribers. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c3b2365eaf79","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4238362228f7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Two years later in 2018, I was experimenting with Instagram’s algorithm which resulted in a series of word-phrase triptychs–a piece created using appropriated imagery from the digitized photo archives of Self Service magazine, was exhibited at the Dallas Contemporary in 2019. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f86885ea62c9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2c935b27367","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"More recently, I discovered NFTs (funny enough through the comedian Tim Dillon, who was on Clubhouse doing a comedic rant about it in early 2021), and I was finally able to bring to life a proof of concept piece I had made in 2019, when I was hired as a consultant to create a creative brief for Saint Laurent’s new concept store, Rive Droite. I imagined a looping animation that could either live in your phone, or be projected on a billboard, and owning this piece of digital art gave you exclusive access to all kinds of YSL experiences. Of course, the challenge was how to assign ownership to editions of something as abstract and nebulous as a dematerialized asset, or artwork that is essentially made up of code. NFT technology was the answer to all these creative question marks. The work was eventually minted as my genesis Tezos piece on HEN (Hic Et Nunc), which many know as DANCE DANCE DANCE, or DANCEx3."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b1982465eb07","_type":"moduleQuote","quote":"We cannot escape the overreach of social media."},{"_key":"2e9666becb34","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ce65e590335e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2017b8d9442b","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How important is understanding online culture and communication on social media for being a successful digital artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"71b392dfca8d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e8a18e10153c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: I believe the answer to this question is something we touched upon in one of our early Twitter Space conversations about NFT culture and the community that gave birth to it and is constantly shaping it. We both agreed that one of the differences between the old system and Web3 is the frequency of engagement. It is constant, and your participation in this greater conversation is crucial. That’s just the way things are today. Whether one accepts it as an indispensable mode of communication or an annoyance, we cannot escape the overreach of social media and our participation in the attention economy. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"37964276650e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"640f44e5aeb2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Those who are more thoughtful, focus on the quality of engagement and are more discerning to avoid the echo chambers that litter the social media landscape like a case of bad acne. On a positive note, beyond the obvious vitriol, social media is an indispensable tool that allows for discovery, which could lead to some amazing collaborations. For one, it allows curators and galleries to discover artists. Being an active participant especially if you have something worth sharing will equate to positive interactions and, hopefully, lead to amazing projects.\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"073dcd1ba9aa","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Skye Nicolas, U.F.O. Grendizer, New York City, 2011.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4973eddfd03a8db65f82c8d1660287af14627214-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4973eddfd03a8db65f82c8d1660287af14627214-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"81e50350807d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9106d651ba5c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"10d03dd58b5d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is success for you as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"beb372c8792f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f439eac5bcc8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: Creating meaningful work that allows you to support yourself financially."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"510f54ced9c9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ee5f8da3a789","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f0f277280351","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there such a thing as Crypto Art or is Crypto Art Internet and Post-Internet Art gone mainstream?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9f19accad9ea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"869f9db73196","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: Internet and Post-Internet Art gone mainstream is one way to describe it, as the mainstream knows very little about Post-Internet Art or the greater history of digital art. When I hear the term \"Crypto Art,\" it makes me think of digital work that was minted during a specific time period, right before the big Beeple sale at Christie’s and shortly then after. The works are characterized by featuring or commenting on crypto culture as subject matter. Rare Pepes, CryptoPunks, Xcopy’s Taxman–that sort of thing. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"10fb79ef3abd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"60a175fa9b83","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I find this very similar in trying to answer the question, \"Is there such a thing as NFT Art?\" Generally, it’s digital artwork minted using NFT technology to facilitate a transactional exchange wherein cryptocurrency is used as a form of payment–or NFT technology is primarily the focus of the work and is creatively utilized as an artistic medium. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b97f20eb80db","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8cfe32f71e34","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There are ongoing debates on the subject, and if the greater community cannot come to a consensus, it just makes sense for it to split into factions wherein each group upholds its own definition of these terms. Sounds very much like religion! (laughs)"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d7cf1d1050dc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Skye Nicolas, Puppy #11, [Yats 50], 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e6f7bf0e39322f6abb4b218871e1f5e486d18a8e-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e6f7bf0e39322f6abb4b218871e1f5e486d18a8e-800x800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"70eaab309ae9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b31fd378b2fd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"26f71a5b8d49","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You call your NFTs \"Pixel Paintings.\" When I look at them, I feel nostalgic. I feel like you sent me back in time. To my teenage bedroom, where I listened to mixtapes on my Walkman that I made for myself or got from pen pals from all over the world. Silverchair, Nirvana, Tool, Fugazi, Minor Threat, and many more. Is that what you would like to achieve? And which role does music play?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c453981e3257","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9f0228fc1067","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: During the Twitter Space that launched Marina Abramović’s first NFT collection, THE HERO 25FPS (in which I was invited to take part in the pre-launch campaign), she commented that \"music is the highest form of art\"–a belief we both share as it is a primordially profound means of human expression and communication. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"aa0726d25dbd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a8c811fcf93c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Music will naturally color the aesthetics of my work since it has been a huge part of my life. This makes perfect sense as to why I employ carefully chosen lyrics appropriated from 180s and 90s songs as an essential component of my pixel paintings and Walkman readymades. They are a form of meta prose: poetic declarations that operate on the subconscious level, inviting the viewer to engage with these works and explore their own personal myths through a visceral experience activated by what I refer to as \"induced nostalgia.\" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ba67bf3dfb24","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fa548c350132","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Most of my work is rooted in the process of distillation. If art is the communication of an idea between the artist and the viewer, good quality art I believe facilitates a successful data transfer. The emotions and thoughts are embedded in the work and can be transmitted and downloaded by the viewer. The internet is not only a repository of content, it can also be seen as a living neural network that is constantly sifting and editing data that we interface with. Source material culled from the internet represents our collective memory and has the great potential of revealing so much about us. My investigations seek to discover the essence, the source of nostalgic feelings and emotions, and the role of memory in the post-internet age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5dd343c2a567","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Skye Nicolas, Somewhere Over The Rainbow, Skies Are Blue, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-df2c7002a9fb6ec27bda3bb2e01c3ac1f431d6a9-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-df2c7002a9fb6ec27bda3bb2e01c3ac1f431d6a9-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"cf52d11ea922","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"19b73bbbf524","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8fc373a316a","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The history of painting and sculpture is well known. We learn about it in school. I remember visiting art museums when I was in school, but I don’t even remember learning about digital art when studying art history at the University of Heidelberg. What are the criteria for historically relevant digital art these days?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c09f16983bb2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a5b172912bf4","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: To start with, I personally hold reverence for the creations of the early pioneers. Works that were created during the E.A.T. (Experiments in Art and Technology) movement in the 60s, in which engineers were paired with artists like Yvonne Rainer and Robert Rauschenberg—and works created by polymaths such as Frieder Nake, Manfred Mohr, and our beloved Herbert W. Franke. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"be4779035312","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"15560776015e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Identifying what would be considered historically relevant digital artworks post-NFT can be a challenge, as there has yet to be a consensus among artists, collectors, and curators; and this dilemma should in fact highlight the importance and function of curators, especially in the NFT space. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ce7c7ae34299","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d3858fba43f1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Work that is popular culturally doesn’t always mean it’s good; and the speculative nature and velocity of NFT trading can further muddle our attempt to clearly define a criteria. Fundamentally, I still look out for work with substance, depth, and sophistication—Harm van den Dorpel’s \"Mutant Garden Seeder\" is a good example of this. It seems that good quality and meaningful work has been created by artists who’ve been busy cultivating their careers long before NFTs. I think the first and recent ART NFT LINZ festival this year, which led to the acquisition of digital artworks for the permanent collection of the Francisco Carolinum Linz museum, is a good reflection of meaningful work. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0ea953091caf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"96b550124cf5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Art is a conversation between the past, present, and future. If you have something substantial to add to the conversation, you will be part of that greater conversation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"72472408777f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c2690a025eff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"48f98a853e4c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is the Walkman your Balloon Dog?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1049e2ba3ba1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"042d82a990fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: Perhaps a quote that speaks about this succinctly is by Rene Ricard in the fabled article entitled \"The Radiant Child\" published in Artforum in 1981, which is said to have catapulted Basquiat to stardom overnight. He wrote: \"The greatest thing is to come up with something so good it seems as if it’s always been there, like a proverb.\" "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1691fc2b3d15","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"362562ffffd2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Good appropriation is transformative. It happens when the re-contextualization process takes over and seeps into the public consciousness. There will come a time when people see a balloon dog and always relate it to Jeff Koons. Most will forget (especially the much younger generation), that it started as a novelty, a party favor, or something you bought from the balloon vendor at the park. Banality and novelty were elevated into something more. At this stage, appropriation is no longer just an act of artistic expression; the work becomes synonymous with the artist. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"25a79f869a54","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b6e065f5955","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It has been four decades, and Walkman specimens in very good condition are now very difficult to source and acquire. They are as rare as the youthful energy and memories embedded in them. It was a conscious decision to appropriate the Walkman, as it is a powerful object that symbolizes and celebrates youth culture—reminding us of the power of music, which facilitated the magic moments of our youth. What an honor it would be to someday become synonymous with such an inspiring object full of history and meaning."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e698ceb6d0d3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d29e04c55cf9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ca48e7d7ef140","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Nature has been a recurring topic in your digital artworks next to icons of pop culture such as the walkman and emojis. What role does nature play within your body of work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0e2008a52fec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5c4398402c20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: The interplay between nature and iconic symbols of pop culture, such as the Walkman and emojis, seems to emerge as a complex negotiation of contemporary visual vocabulary. Once romantically exalted as a sanctuary for contemplation, nature has now been seamlessly woven into the fabric of our mediated existence, revealing the heightened digitized realm we inhabit—where the virtual and the tangible coalesce, blurring the boundaries between what we once conceived as pristine wilderness and our synthetic landscapes. A metaphoric mirror emerges, reflecting the precarious symbiosis between humanity's technological ascension and the impending precarity of our biosphere. Nature, much like pixels on a screen, is deconstructed and reconstructed within my work, casting a liminal aura that interrogates the very essence of authenticity and how our sense of values are continuously redefined as we interphase with the digital; such topics are explored in SHUNDO ODDISH. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a2f7977e0015","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3d5463e5c5900","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Some of my work explores the transmutation of nature from an autonomous entity into a commodified signifier, commodified to the point of being embedded within our collective subconscious—the conceptual foundation of my series ‘IN BLOOM,, comprised of five works that, either individually or combined, transform a site-specific location into an intimate digital garden. Induced nostalgia colors the viewer’s experience as the piece attempts to locate the pulse of fleeting memories in a post-internet age wherein our memories themselves have been somewhat digitized. And there is UNTITLED [SAKURA HX-59749D]’, in which digital specimens of stock floral images are conceptually treated as visual affectations to elucidate morphic resonance, wherein self-organizing systems inherit memory from previous or similar systems, in an attempt to inherit the collective memory of analog painting as an emergent property of the artist’s mind. The piece also touches upon Assembly theory, a theory that aims to capture the biological signature of life by examining the intricacies of replication, and the idea of simple machines building more complex machines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bb6d230b8224","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d8012e9da910","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These investigations coincide with Jean Baudrillard's notions of hyperreality, wherein the distinction between the real and the simulated dissipates, leaving behind some kind of kaleidoscopic simulacrum. The Walkman and emojis, emblematic of their respective eras, are entangled with this narrative, serving as vehicles that transport us to the juncture where our electronically integrated daily lives intersect with the perennial rhythms of nature. It seems that nature's recurring presence indicates an unsettled negotiation wherein the schisms of culture and the environment are rendered inextricably entwined, as communicated in SOMEWHERE OVER THE RAINBOW, SKIES ARE BLUE (in the permanent collection of the museum Fransisco Carolinum in Linz, Austria), which to my estimation is the consummate Metamodernist landscape. Just as pixels flicker on the digital canvas, so does nature's essence oscillate within the confines of my creations. Specifically, through my digital artworks, I aim to expose the paradoxes embedded within our sensorial experiences, inviting the viewer to engage with the multilayered tapestry that constitutes our contemporary visual landscape—an ecosystem where nature and pop culture intersect, mutate, and ultimately metamorphose into signifiers of a rapidly evolving digital era."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0d8d0aa06629","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Skye Nicolas, Shundo Oddish Redux, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b1458b81ae5e36e5eb5bae40fc63fe97149e3256-800x1421-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b1458b81ae5e36e5eb5bae40fc63fe97149e3256-800x1421-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8274368758026","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"23c1ac68aa61","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6da5edd8e820","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6cdb306754d50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are your thoughts about nature in the age of the metaverse?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9d580a464399","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80c8c7c3059c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SN: In the metaverse, the ontological boundaries between the organic and the simulated seem to converge into an intricate assemblage, much like the digital artifacts I meticulously thread through my own narratives. Nature, that perpetually shifting and evolving phenomenon, encounters a profound reconfiguration of our perceptual and ontological frameworks. It morphs into a spectral entity, existing in multiplicity as both an enduring memory and an ethereal construct. The metaverse has then become a stage where the boundaries between the organic and the algorithmic are diffused, unsettling conventional notions of reality. Within this paradigm shift, nature ceaselessly undergoes a process of remediation, transitioning from its terrestrial corporeality to an abstraction, a simulacrum. Akin to an immense interconnected neural network, the metaverse produces a paradoxical condition where nature's authenticity is both magnified and obfuscated in the form of a techno-nature: an intricate fusion of code and materiality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"36e5811b7215","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"515e4e4009090","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The metaverse challenges us to reevaluate the very essence of nature, imploring us to deconstruct its significance beyond the realm of the organic. As avatars navigate landscapes where the laws of physics can be rewritten at will, the dialectic between the \"real\" and the \"virtual\" becomes a matter of perspective. The dichotomy of the metaverse mirrors the dissonance of our larger human relationship with the environment, compressing the simultaneous allure and disillusionment of our techno-utopian aspirations. As nature is continuously incorporated into this new domain, it becomes both a source of inspiration and a harbinger of ethical inquiry; it amplifies and complexifies these tensions, thrusting us into an ever-evolving dialectic. Though the metaverse introduces a new ecology of interconnectivity, its earthly ecological implications remain paradoxically ambivalent. It may offer a space for novel engagements with nature, enabling immersive experiences and interactions that are unimaginable, but it is inherently imbued with its own forms of exploitation and extraction. The digital infrastructures underpinning the metaverse require immense energy resources, echoing familiar patterns of misuse present in our physical world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2c05f8a16ee2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7518666471110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In this era of the Anthropocene, we witness the reimagining of nature as an aesthetic experience, a dataset, a malleable entity—a simulacrum that eludes the confines of tangible existence. The digital wilderness of the metaverse is both a testament to human ingenuity and an unsettling reflection of our desire, or hubris, to recreate, even transcend, the natural order. As an artist that employs new media as a means of creative expression and exploration, I can’t help but ruminate on this question: can the metaverse become a site of reconciliation, a liminal space for reimagining our ecological commitments? Or will it amplify our existing dissociation from the material world, entrenching our disconnection from the very nature it abstracts and reinterprets? I find myself drawn to this juncture of potentiality and peril, wherein the interplay of nature and the metaverse reveal a situation that is both technologically captivating and ethically vexing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7cc2f8417e44","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"4b16ba9d43ca","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"0a69bed2-0de8-4c1a-898b-6241f0037c01","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"b6b1b83583c7","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"ba7ee1ecacc2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8274368758026","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"42106e6526c9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8275606077706","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"fbec0a1d17b9","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-501020786954","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9b7f6c308999","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8355820175626","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"56f017278681","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"28e4cc1fc99f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"766880a8-b65a-4168-aeb8-8edcc1e7e779","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"f02bf62f1d09","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"dec4972b6332","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bb654090-dba4-4064-8712-ded79ddd97cd","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"0a3324fce14b","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"2300afd8-b465-4d25-bd12-cf36a78d4afc","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"7e92e5e69678","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"2b180587-6ee3-449d-9caa-1735794ca379","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"d93a40615043","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a508f071-8a11-421b-8d71-529f74906486","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b4dc8322e4aa","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"ed8b5da9-68b4-499a-81c9-3961d1b57935","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"408833cded99","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a7438850-749c-4a96-a9ea-943eff8c0466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"31c7e4b06763","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"3d9d28a1-4354-4d8e-9eef-1b7dfd90de33","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2022-12-06T14:30:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Skye Nicolas speaks to Anika Meier about music and nostalgia, digital art and pop culture.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"skye-nicolas-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"NOSTALGIA AND PIXEL PAINTINGS","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b1458b81ae5e36e5eb5bae40fc63fe97149e3256-800x1421-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"SKYE NICOLAS: LIVING IN A SCIENCE FICTION NOVEL"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"0e440da9213a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-10-10T10:05:49Z","_id":"eb201bd3-4d2d-4b89-8a62-c8ab0d876646","_rev":"pzXhTl0YHyfAi1zIdRuctg","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-10-18T23:32:51Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-21dd5ad77df5286a6b7717130f9ebbb3918d6e16-3520x1980-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"91dea5c9dfe3","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"eeb17539267b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3d143f37a3250","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Dr. Susanne Päch is a journalist and media expert. She holds a PhD in the history of science as well as communication. Her husband was Herbert W. Franke. She manages his estate and art meets science – the Foundation Herbert W. Franke. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4f72b733aab5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f4b6d64ab4e5","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 1979, Susanne Päch met Herbert W. Franke at the Goldmann summer festival, a popular gathering attended by authors, journalists, and friends. At the time, she was a student working on a doctorate, and their professor, who had translated historical novels for Goldmann and Heyne, brought her along. They joined a table with notable figures like Wolfgang Jeschke and Dieter Hasselblatt, who were friends of Herbert W. Franke. He spent his entire life searching for innovative methods and machines whose aesthetic potential he wanted to explore experimentally. Susanne Päch has accompanied him in this endeavor for over 40 years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"cbee284b528e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"18f2ffef7fee0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Susanne Päch reflects on her time with Herbert W. Franke and discusses what makes his life's work still so relevant today. She also shares her work for the Foundation Herbert W. Franke, including the Generative Art Summit and publication projects such as THE ORCHID CAGE, and explains how art and communication have changed in the post-digital age."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a9c91230dd7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b4251d5ac8e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1e04c3e0d6d60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Susanne, how did you come to generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7162f9bf3fb9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eb7a84ded86a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Susanne Päch: It was, of course, Herbert! When I met Herbert, the Impressionists were everything to me. To some extent, so were the Expressionists and Constructivists. Perhaps there was already a transition in the making here."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3472035cf552","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"31449d7bd10b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"472541164a8f","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What fascinates you about generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b60246abeea5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ed225301caaa","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: After a long life with Herbert, I am certainly strongly influenced by him. I find Herbert's integral approach very beautiful, as generative art has a backstory and should not be reduced solely to the tool of digital code. It is the fundamental approach of creating art not so much \"from the gut\" but with the mind. In this sense, generative art always involves analytical concepts that begin before the work itself—and it naturally involves algorithms, mathematical relations, and the codes used to implement them."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9146eddc953d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a49a59b952c10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert spoke in the 1950s of the artist and their approach as a rational \"constructor.\" I find this image very fitting, which I now also pursue with the foundation's collection, in which Constructivists, concrete artists, generative photographers, as well as representatives of Op Art—who are known to have intensely dealt with human perception—are included, along with artists who have devoted themselves to machines or various technical tools for the rational design of works. Of course, computer artists, multimedia artists, or interactive artists who work with codes have been at the center of this development since the 1960s, as digital code has become the non plus ultra of this art trend."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"88ca9b445760","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke, Math Art (1980-1995) – Math Art 95 – No. 30, 2022. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-68f2319bf5680f4097e312549ce9cfd42c843b21-1000x1010-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-68f2319bf5680f4097e312549ce9cfd42c843b21-1000x1010-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"3468717e0fc2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0bbb4731a95b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"12a037627fde","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you explain generative art to someone who has never heard of it?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9ee30442661c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7b4e55cb1a760","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Generative art is an art movement in which the physical work loses its dominant role, and the process of creating image structures takes center stage. In doing so, these artists have also embraced new technical tools for their work: from the camera to the computer to artificial intelligence. Another typical characteristic of many generative works is the engagement with scientifically relevant questions, such as visualization, the investigation of perception phenomena, or more generally, the algorithmization and evolution of processes. In this sense, generative artists also contribute in various ways to bridging the gap between art and science."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"60fcd76693da","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bb99e932d93a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"503f34a82f4e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have accompanied Herbert in his life as an artist and curator, but also as a scientist and science fiction author for over 40 years. What makes his work special to you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a61c51021e5e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"014c8e6efbf10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: I believe it is precisely this analytical thinking that he placed at the center of art. He aimed not only to create art— and I deliberately include literature here— but also to always \"understand\" the underlying principles of aesthetics. For him, understanding meant discovering abstractly valid phenomena and placing them on a verifiable scientific foundation. He did this using the method he had been familiar with since his studies in theoretical physics: mathematical formulations. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"01c15d218667","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fc2f9a4bb9c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As an example, I would like to mention his investigations into the growth description of a particular species of cactus according to the mathematically describable Fibonacci numbers. This was in the 1960s when he also, as a self-taught individual, delved deeply into information theory and cybernetics to use them as tools for his art theoretical considerations."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c7f91c66760","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Cactus with Fibonacci growth.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c66494175a94ae690830768cf2e66a975587adfa-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c66494175a94ae690830768cf2e66a975587adfa-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"44af59b602a8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5bd7656ebb77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0b11935f7847","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What has your collaboration looked like? And how has it changed over the years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0a139b6939c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5596cffa5bde0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: First of all, I want to emphasize that I probably collaborated with Herbert far less than it may seem today, as I am currently focused entirely on building the foundation. However, I have always closely followed his work from the sidelines. Especially when he started programming on an Apple computer in 1980, we exchanged ideas more often. He was so excited to be able to develop codes himself, and he loved sharing that joy with me. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8ffe24e806ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b1a1a4e4eb5e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I mainly read his literary works only after their publication. When he was writing, he was in a kind of tunnel and difficult to reach. He dictated his novels, which meant he would remain largely in that parallel world for several weeks to not lose the thread. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d19691f66a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"62c3be1ccb29","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In recent years, I have increasingly taken care of archiving his images because I realized that it would be an important task to keep his work alive even after his death. However, he always told me: \"Don't worry so much about my archive; you have so many talents and ideas. You have something better to do.\" Nevertheless, he was always very pleased when something new was created, such as the website "},{"_key":"d1b3d91d290d","_type":"span","marks":["eb97626bf557"],"text":"\"art meets science\" in 2007"},{"_key":"2b8b008bbf52","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" on the occasion of his 80th birthday. With it, I laid the foundation for the current foundation website, even without knowing it."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"eb97626bf557","_type":"link","href":"https://art-meets-science.io/en/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9b5aea2bceba","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke's bookshelf featuring the science fiction novels he wrote. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-067dcfd21c5d96fa1845298c45e40c8efeaf80dc-2479x3599-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-067dcfd21c5d96fa1845298c45e40c8efeaf80dc-2479x3599-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"781657481ab5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aa3039bc02ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7edc65533b5e","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: But you actually worked on projects together."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cca76f439fc9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b8e600f05f00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Yes, a few times, we also developed art projects together. Shortly after we met in 1979, I was part of the video art production of the ASTROPOETICON. It was based on the eponymous book featuring space images by the painter Andreas Nottebohm and poems by Herbert. The book as a concept was no longer enough for Herbert by the end of the 1970s. He wanted to create a video production from it. Both the images and the spoken poems were dynamically altered. By the way, the sound was created by Walter Haupt. He was a musician at the Munich State Opera and also the well-known director of the so-called Experimentierbühne (Experimental Stage) of that renowned institution, which unfortunately no longer exists. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7e12b03a53e3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fb0dca3fea01","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert had participated in several multimedia events there in the 1970s. Walter Haupt was responsible for the sound; he had Herbert's poems recorded and then altered them technically, while we interacted with the images live in the microphotography studio of Manfred P. Kage, a longtime friend of Herbert, using Rehberg's video sizer."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e3c6d5bd6b60","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6c4ced9f64650","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert was sometimes secretly a bit sad that the narrator hadn't read the texts the way he had envisioned. But he always said: \"The project is a team effort, and everyone can contribute their own ideas.\" Well, that was the reason I sat Herbert down in a studio in 2007 and told him to record the poems the way he wanted. I'm very glad I did that. They are a wonderful testament to Herbert's literary work. The cycle was performed for his 80th birthday as part of the event series \"art meets science,\" which I organized as a personal gift for him, at the planetarium of the Archenhold Observatory in Berlin, under the artificial starry sky of the planetarium with musical accompaniment. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f4f0051eea9f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9dd2ab18fd61","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The poems read by Herbert were also used in 2021 for an NFT project with Harry Yeff and Trung Bao: the VOICE GEMS ASTROPOETICON. By the way, I also produced them as a video in 2021—with sounds from the two ambient musicians NOVA and Subheim. Herbert was very impressed; it was truly lovely to hear so much praise from him. Last year, we also showed it at the planetarium of the Volksternwarte Munich. The test screening went very well, so I hope the foundation can also showcase my version of the Astropoeticon in other venues in the future."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"05b0b6f8c7ad","_type":"moduleVideo","caption":"Herbert W. Franke, Voice Gems Astropoeticon (Destination in Uncertainty), Bespoke Generative System, 1979/2021.","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e74f2aef5281f217fb097ee4e4ef2815bf8563cd-2000x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"video":{"_type":"file","asset":{"_ref":"file-e574c145a4d097f7570cda91deec21db0acac6eb-mp4","_type":"reference"}},"videoPosition":"right"},{"_key":"6abcd8f078da","_type":"moduleQA","textRight":[{"_key":"d309d1180992","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"29eeabe99a330","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And then there was of course the multimedia project HOMMAGE À E.M., an interactive performance for a dancer and a visual artist. E. M. stands for Eadweard Muybridge, the inventor of motion photography in the second half of the 19th century, who, with his camera setups, became a precursor to cinematography. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"82642c906f8d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9372e0546ab1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The original HOMMAGE took place in 1989 as part of \"artware,\" a sponsored art event by Siemens curated by David Galloway during the CeBit fair. There was a small room in the exhibition area that Galloway didn’t know what to do with. He asked Herbert if he had any ideas, and Herbert was never shy about that. So, we came up with the idea to design the space as a blue box and realize a dance performance within it. Herbert actually wanted to see me dance myself, as I had a semi-professional ballet training as a teenager and remained closely connected to ballet throughout my life. But I didn't want to. By that time, I was already known as a journalist in telecommunications. I would have felt uncomfortable if people from the industry I knew from a completely different context happened to be there. So, we collaboratively developed the project based on Herbert's idea, and I took on the choreography and direction of the performance. I hired the dancer from the ballet studio where I was taking classes at the time. A technician was also part of the team. The dancer moved on stage, using her body to draw movements in the blue space. Her dance was recorded live by a VHS camera, which transmitted the analog data to the Fairlight video sizer, where it was then altered live using both analog and digital techniques. These alterations were projected directly from the Fairlight onto a screen beside the dancer, who could also see the live images on a monitor at the edge of the front stage. Thus, the dancer and the visual artist formed an interactive unit, creating dynamic sequences on the screen—by the way, to sounds and music by Klaus Netzle."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"374bbc89aab3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke, stills from the performance Homage to E.M., 1989. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c61fb2bd5db37d2d0b410f6f81615569652f7784-1043x995-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c61fb2bd5db37d2d0b410f6f81615569652f7784-1043x995-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"0dff163f8aa5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d847ef0a6386","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d500ac005997","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You once told me that Herbert aimed to answer questions with his artworks – and once the answer was found, that 'chapter' would be closed for him, and the next question would arise. How did he come up with the questions that occupied him since the 1950s?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1016ba20bbfe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"560871adf995","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: The questions arose from new insights in science or advancements in the technology sector. Herbert was always on the lookout for innovative machines or novel scientific visualizations. In the 1950s and 60s, for example, machines like scanning electron microscopes became more widely used in science and increasingly revealed new structural and evolutionary aspects of nature. But new findings in psychology, particularly the first quantifiable results regarding human perception and data filtering, were also very significant for him. Subsequently, he analytically and systematically examined the abstract theoretical foundations of aesthetics, often in collaboration with psychologist Helmar Frank. Then, in the 1970s, there were also data processing systems as universally applicable scientific tools, which significantly advanced our understanding of the world from the microcosm to outer space and brought considerable medical progress. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"76c0651b1530","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"65ee5138815b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"During that time, Herbert wrote numerous science fiction works that often took place in space but always reflected events on Earth and the development of humanity under the technological influence triggered by digitization. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"4a2df8913af1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56a19e277548","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert always said: 'I am convinced that the emergence of artificial intelligence in human evolution will happen much more likely and, above all, much earlier than contact with extraterrestrial intelligence. We should focus our attention on that.' This underdeveloped interest in aliens led, by the way, to some die-hard science fiction fans in the 1970s urging him to write more space adventures featuring foreign intelligences, as that was supposedly the real topic of science fiction..."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dcc62e83a850","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dfd5b245548a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But back to the visual arts. Starting in the 1980s, PCs became central, finally giving him the opportunity to program. It was the interactivity of art, as well as the connection between music and moving images, that provided the experimental field here. And then there was always new software to try out. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"732803745c9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45dbdca31174","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I remember that Bryce by Kai Krause was released in the mid-90s and made a huge impact in the PC scene. With it, three-dimensional landscapes, which until then could only be admired in cinemas or on supercomputers, could finally be created right at one's own desk. Herbert was probably one of the first buyers of the tool. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2723eb2707a6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"86e9fc64bcc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A few years earlier, he had started using Wolfram's Mathematica, software that allowed for the construction of three-dimensional objects using mathematical formulas. Since Bryce allowed for the import of external data through interfaces, the somewhat unconventional series FANTASTIC WORLDS emerged at that time, a solitary work of representational art. Herbert incorporated mathematically constructed technoid objects into the utopian landscapes, creating an interesting tension in the desolate scenery. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8b4ba1f8a426","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"73f88fb268b3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ultimately, this series, which was quite unusual for him due to its representational nature, belonged more to the category of fulfilling his playful instincts. Perhaps similar to how he had built plotters with Fischer-Technik in the 1970s to draw mathematical oscillation figures. Interestingly, some of these drawings found their way into the collection of the Museum of Modern Art, Ludwig Foundation in Vienna, as he had gifted them—along with color plotter images from the Color Raster series in the 1970s—to the well-known collector couple Bogner, whose collection later went to the Mumok."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"782dc2669725","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Propeller Flight from Fantastic Worlds by Herbert W. Franke, 1997-2000.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ade660da3be75bf1f9c6dd717bc0f812503310ee-1800x1407-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ade660da3be75bf1f9c6dd717bc0f812503310ee-1800x1407-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"126d68cc128c","_type":"moduleQA","textRight":[{"_key":"313bb97a07c3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"60ded3d7c9e60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The 1990s for Herbert, from my perspective, were characterized by the analysis with world models. He had already begun to reflect on his own life and the worldview he had developed in the 1970s, which is perhaps an age when one starts to take stock. It started in 1990 with his novel CENTER OF THE MILKY WAY, which I would describe as his most philosophical literary work. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"04cccb77b8c2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bf25e3d95903","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At that time, he began experimenting with cellular automata using Mathematica, which allowed him to concretize his ideas about the nature and evolution of the universe—a world, as he always said, that is not truly predictable because it is also determined by real chance. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c1a4a9f8418b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9a18057354fd","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Since his student days and the emergence of quantum physics, he was convinced that this real chance is part of our universe, rooted in the underlying quantum world of reality. With the help of cellular automata and the one-dimensional world models they enabled, he simulated these effects using random generators. It became clear to him that while too much randomness in development leads to chaos, a measured use of chance represents a lasting enrichment of the world. He published all of this in a highly stimulating and deeply philosophical book, THE P-PRINCIPLE, with Insel-Verlag in 1995. Since it was never published in English, it has gone unnoticed by the scientific community. In it, he explains that for him, the universe is determined by the initial conditions (whoever set them or however they came about), the prevailing natural laws and their algorithms (the cosmic program), and also by real chance. For me, this book is on the list of five non-fiction and specialized books that I hope to publish in English with the foundation in the coming years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"85dafc744d53","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Example of Herbert W. Franke's experiments with cellular automata and random generators, from 1992 onwards.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c979d1e2bc9b487a8c0ad097ee891e48891ef39e-1800x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c979d1e2bc9b487a8c0ad097ee891e48891ef39e-1800x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"2094f9b01205","_type":"moduleQA","textRight":[{"_key":"dc811706c54f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dca897bb12e10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Last but not least, I want to mention the experiments with 3D platforms that first emerged in the 1990s and immediately sparked Herbert's interest. However, Second Life was not a topic for him. What troubled him about it was precisely what fascinated him about Bryce: the ability to integrate data—or rather, mathematically coded self-constructed elements. Second Life only offered elements from internal building blocks that could only be assembled. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9d538e68b1ce","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1de9ca7f9ec9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But when Herbert became acquainted with the platform Active Worlds through Derrick Woodham in the early 2000s, which had actually existed before Second Life but never achieved public popularity, he was immediately fascinated and purchased a piece of land. Here too, he mathematically constructed everything that could be found within it. Even the plants were based on a mathematical code he developed. Probably hardly anyone noticed this, but it was always very important to Herbert. Unfortunately, the Z-Galaxy can no longer be accessed today, but the foundation also hopes to work on its reconstruction if it can allocate the resources for it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"89072258f1a0","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Z-Galaxy, Herbert W. Franke’s 3D world on Active Worlds, from 2005.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ee41f902b77018abf21ebd86cabf304951289db7-1000x563-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ee41f902b77018abf21ebd86cabf304951289db7-1000x563-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"5763d6f5f034","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"38deecee02f4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"208675616754","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Herbert raised questions about the connection between art and technology very early on. Herbert's first book on art – ART AND CONSTRUCTION – was published in 1957. An English translation is now available. I re-read the book after the onset of the NFT hype. Almost overnight, media interest in digital art surged worldwide. I noticed that not much has changed regarding the criticisms mentioned in the book. What do you think about that?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"09b7a17b5e92","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e38a7772810f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: So, we agreed that the art world largely denied these tendencies at the time, while today they are being discussed much more negatively in public due to the popularity of blockchain. Herbert always said he was convinced that his fundamental ideas are correct and that they can advance our understanding of the laws in our world a little further. This personal insight was ultimately more important to him than public recognition. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"482a3822c163","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3ff3a2ddd005","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Experiencing indifference or puzzled shaking of heads is better than biting criticism from people who believe they can contribute but have no interest in the fundamentals at all. That reminds me, I recently found a newspaper clipping in the archive from the cultural section of the Münchner Merkur from 1958, a review of ART AND CONSTRUCTION. There’s a reviewer who finds the book noteworthy and tries to understand it, even though some aspects remain closed off to him. I find this wonderful: \"To say exactly what this book has accomplished is – you can see it in the title – undoubtedly not easy, even impossible, for the author himself, but that is precisely proof of the genuinely novel aspect that makes the book so fascinating… One could call all these excellently reproduced results of the most complex photographic processes an adventure of appearance: these ultra-photos, aerograms, micro-shots, electron microscope images, crystal graphics, pendulum oscillograms, etc.; they evoke a sense of awe in the face of the 'relativity of our optical worldview,' the 'law of disorder,' the beauty and monumentality that prevail in the micro-events around us. The author, a great photographic experimenter, is a mathematician and knows how to master the magic wand of formulas excellently… when he seeks the 'key to the elegance of abstract forms' and wants to find further methods of abstract image design, when he speaks of the possibilities of abstract poetry… Franke's book is a remarkable confrontation of abstract art with exact mathematical thinking and the discoveries of the lens.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2cd964208d6b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke's edition of Art and Construction. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b7c10bead188a574bdafddd06b680aa1bce883e1-2303x1727-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b7c10bead188a574bdafddd06b680aa1bce883e1-2303x1727-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"3c9699413574","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8ca9f4b76d66","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45ccf9416cdd","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you deal with this criticism?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"abbb0a88ca72","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8122d7071c97","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Well, we didn't really \"deal\" with it; we simply acknowledged the criticism and continued doing our own thing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"78e4a596f559","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d7979ecacf49","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7f1d639e4532","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What motivated Herbert not to give up?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"377c934d6e3d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"079faef94a6f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: As I said, everything Herbert did in his life was meant to bring \"understanding\" about the world. It was never about money, fame, or mere recognition. Although, of course, it was nice for him, as for any person, to receive that recognition. He was fundamentally a thinker and a scientist, and for them, there is no giving up... because, if you are curious, there is always something new to discover throughout your life. External criticism holds little significance in that regard."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e9d76b6bfcd1","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke in conversation with Susanne Päch and Anika Meier about his solo exhibition VISIONARY, which was on display at the Francisco Carolinum in Linz in celebration of his 95th birthday. The exhibition was initiated by museum director Alfred Weidinger.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-01fe1bbfae599469b82db6ff338be44b322097e5-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-01fe1bbfae599469b82db6ff338be44b322097e5-1024x768-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"1f7e6b782cdc","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e6ac8410f6fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db4b771af3a4","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The archive is now at the ZKM Karlsruhe. The digitization of the manuscripts was the first major project that the foundation undertook after its establishment. The digitization was funded by donations from about 70 artists who were part of the tribute to Herbert W. Franke, which you and I curated together in September 2022."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3e6d23b796f7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6c521f8f595f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"What else can be found in this archive?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"67682eec5dcc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"229892683e50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: We donated the archive of Herbert W. Franke to the ZKM in 2017. Initially, we included all works for which we still had duplicate copies. The original collection, of course, remained with us. However, this is just a small part. Herbert kept everything – not only correspondence but also a lot of material, mostly organized in projects. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"efaf1541bda5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b34cf9c7a6bb","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The archive now consists of 30 meters of folders and boxes. This includes, for example, project materials for his scientific publications, for exhibitions he curated, and for consulting work, which was an important source of income for him. There is also a lot of project material for scientific work and articles, for exhibitions he curated, and for consulting work he did for industry to earn money. Additionally, there are numerous audio and video recordings of lectures and events. The material reflects his three main areas of work: generative art, science fiction, and science."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b9ac5e2e513e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"337e82d3d1c2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"331852687812","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And what goals has the foundation set?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c6d0f025461c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"be5eb4666041","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: The foundation aims to further explore Herbert's extensive body of work and make it publicly accessible in print, online, and multimedia for future generations. It also aims to support research projects that develop the bridge established by the visionary between the world of art on one side and the natural sciences on the other in the 21st century. The projects should complement or further specify his central ideas with new research methods."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f3c422e765c5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"e3f4d4f0793e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a70b2e10d4780","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The foundation needs revenue to finance projects, which it generates through the sale of a selection of its artworks. Before we move on to the foundation's next major project, let's reflect on the Generative Art Summit in Berlin 2024. With this, you wanted to continue an important driving force in Herbert's life: networking, curating, and education. The reactions were very positive. I think you must be satisfied with the outcome?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"25f7debade44","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8498606089ad","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Oh yes, I am. The seven months of my life that I dedicated to preparing for the event, in order to create a lasting experience for all contributors and participants, were well invested time. By the way, I am still working on the numerous video documentations of the four-day event, which included conferences and events."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"06031ee284c9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9490b143f1360","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The initial idea was that Herbert wanted to inform the world about new trends through publications and exhibitions, and of course, inspire more people. This thought also drove the summit. As we now look back over several generations of generative art since the 1950s, I wanted to create a broad narrative from generative photography, with which Herbert entered the art world, to the use of artificial intelligence. I aimed to present this cross-generational development with important artist voices of each era, as well as art historians, museum officials, collectors, and contemporary platform operators in the blockchain, in a compact two-day conference program. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a7d82bce949b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c770042a9048","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"For this, the foundation invited around 60 distinguished guests from around the world – from Japan to Canada. It was probably not only a demanding program for me but also for all participants, but I wanted to showcase the dazzling facets of this historically grown and now so complex world of generative art, at the heart of which I placed Herbert's thoughts about the artist as a \"constructor,\" as he called it, who works creatively with the help of various technologies and machines."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5584c1418f1d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Zentrum by Herbert W. Franke. Proceeds from the NFT Drop ZENTRUM were used by Foundation Herbert W. Franke to organize and host the GENERATIVE ART SUMMIT, the international symposium on the history of generative art in Berlin in 2024, as well as to support the publishing the science fiction writing of Franke, which is also planned for 2024. PROOF, EXPANDED.ART, and Foundation Herbert W. Franke are proud to present ZENTRUM, a historical work created in 1982; curated by Anika Meier.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b6404858141b3a70bd74cb4c5d1dbd30e94ee33c-2048x1390-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b6404858141b3a70bd74cb4c5d1dbd30e94ee33c-2048x1390-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"a356f8fe706c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5576c4bcb79f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e76f289927cb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: The cross-generational approach was important for you, as you mentioned. It was not just about history, but also about showcasing the latest developments."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"16787fc54b65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"202a52acf0f7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Yes, thanks to Alfred Weidinger and you, we entered the world of Twitter, where the community of generative artists now meets. I know that many of the pioneers from the 20th century are still far removed from this world. I wanted to open this new world to Herbert’s companions. They were, as they later told me, excited about this new world and made many new acquaintances. But it was equally important to me that young artists learn more about the pioneers without whom their work would not be possible. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c910dae4dcdb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5778a4421da7","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As a historian of science, evolutionary processes are very important to me. And I believe that while an artist can produce works without any knowledge of the history of their own practice, I am convinced that this knowledge adds depth. The young artists have also given me very positive feedback on this. I believe I have achieved the goal of bringing the two worlds of pioneers and contemporary artists, which had been long separated, significantly closer together."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"95057f6c1904","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Susanne Päch at the Academy of Arts in Berlin, where the Generative Art Summit took place in July 2024. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8cc6626f2d1a19c19a4a81364ac81cdc9110742c-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8cc6626f2d1a19c19a4a81364ac81cdc9110742c-4032x3024-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"2190e05f350d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"af1846c63423","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45797ec99f01","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What is your personal highlight regarding the summit?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d23b44bedc77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1205a1167627","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: I can put it very succinctly: The most important part was the many friends from around the world whom I could meet again or for the first time in person. That was fantastic."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"939e1158e739","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"The participants of the Generative Art Summit in a photo.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2e9f5bc28acf27a9fd8a7071e8e644b5409beb4-2048x1153-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a2e9f5bc28acf27a9fd8a7071e8e644b5409beb4-2048x1153-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"9a6a0a932f35","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7863f921985d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f819fed21b2","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In the NFT space, we often hear \"it's still early.\" But the pioneers from Herbert's generation were really early. They were thinking about the connection between art and technology, and it was always particularly about the impact of technological developments on society. Today, we often see on Twitter what someone is currently working on and what issues they are dealing with. This timely exchange was not possible back then. You have experienced both firsthand; you are immersed in it daily on Twitter. How do you experience the differences?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"25375edb9485","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6754afe3411e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: You are right. The way of working has changed completely. There are indeed two worlds. Back then, one was largely on their own. But not only in art; in science, the research team has long since replaced the individual researcher. Today, a researcher can no longer fully grasp even their own specialized field. What this means is clear: people are increasingly losing their autonomy. In everyday life, this has come about through growing division of labor, and now it's also happening in the realm of thought. This development has both positive and negative aspects: in a team, you can gain more insights in a shorter time – with the downside that this knowledge is ultimately only available collectively, that is, virtually. At the same time, individuals are delving deeper into details and increasingly losing sight of the bigger picture. Apparently, this trend towards collectivity, driven by the possibilities of global networks for real-time data exchange, is also observable in art. Speed is indeed key. Everything is just in time..."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d35acebf562a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke's solo exhibition, Illuminating the Invisible, was on view on the occasion of the Generative Art Summit at KÖNIG GALERIE in Berlin from July 5 to September 1, 2024. Photo: Roman März","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd8e25f059793e9f78ea8de1bfa471f3e46c637c-1600x1067-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd8e25f059793e9f78ea8de1bfa471f3e46c637c-1600x1067-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"e761624e22c7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"614e19704b70","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b266b7c49113","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you have the impression that there is less concern for socially relevant issues when it comes to the development of new technologies like AI? To be honest, I miss the critical discourse on Twitter and the engagement with topics that go beyond the market. A few years ago, I asked Herbert what he would still wish for. There was no mention of success in the art market. What mattered to him was that people see what he has worked on for decades, whether in books, exhibitions, or in his artistic and scientific work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"91840f33c3e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e24a99f2c2e8","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: That's right. Herbert was not interested in commerce. However, that has become the central theme on Twitter: I believe that deeper communication about the truly important topics is not even possible on a platform like Twitter. You cannot reduce a genuine discourse about our complex reality to two sentences. Unfortunately, it seems that fewer and fewer people are willing to take the time to understand complexity and then publicly discuss the consequences in a controversial manner, weighing the pros and cons. Everything gets reduced to catchy slogans. In my view, this has nothing to do with Twitter itself; rather, Twitter is a result of this trend, which it unfortunately exacerbates. Personally, I do not find that good. Herbert's world was entirely different. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"afed8f8d0ed8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c5d7b1f619a9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Recently, I found an interesting manuscript in the ZKM archive in our digital database, which I have just published on the website in both German and English. It dates back to 1978, so Herbert wrote it a year before we met. It essentially says everything that was important to him: \"Making the invisible visible, expressing the unimaginable, recognizing the unknown… at this point, natural science merges with philosophy and art. And if I look at it from a very personal perspective, even my hobbies find a logical place in that no-man's land where all these endeavors intersect. This is how I try to make sense of it – like anyone who wants to find meaning in what they do.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1cd4c399d547","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke is signing one of his books for the German artist Mario Klingemann. Photo: Anika Meier","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ce068fbe9db3b9402eb5575e7ac086e9bd8439c3-2146x2203-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ce068fbe9db3b9402eb5575e7ac086e9bd8439c3-2146x2203-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"15cfa85e8821","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"19005be50666","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"19b7dda0fb11","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As you know, I have started writing a newsletter titled "},{"_key":"a483f9b51488","_type":"span","marks":["384fac56d380","strong"],"text":"STATUS UPDATE"},{"_key":"154cd164cce9","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":" to give more space to topics and to pose questions that connect various areas such as literature, art, internet, and pop culture."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"384fac56d380","_type":"link","href":"https://anikameierstatusupdate.substack.com/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0971e81677fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e9b1d969dd790","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"I fondly remember the opening of his solo exhibition at the Francisco Carolinum in Linz in the spring of 2022. There were people there who carried his novels, others had brought his books on cave research, and yet others had his art theoretical writings with them. For signing, of course. Herbert was incredibly productive in his life. As you mentioned earlier, when he was working on a science fiction novel, he was in a tunnel to not lose the thread. How did he manage to connect all those different themes while still leading essentially three separate lives in public for decades?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ea7a1b82cc80","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"49feb66c76cc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: Don't ask me that; I don't have a proper answer. His fortune, in any case, was that he could produce incredibly quickly. His relentless curiosity was also helpful in trying to understand the interconnected global events as well as possible with human means. This led him to various topics that he didn't just want to grasp quickly but also analyze more deeply, often in \"parallel processing,\" which may have allowed him to see connections that others did not. It was his special ability to bring loose ends together, to build bridges... a skill that likely forms the essence of creativity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bb97c0910a3f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke and Susanne Päch with Alfred Weidinger and Anika Meier at the opening of the VISIONARY exhibition at the Francisco Carolinum Linz. Curators, gallery owners, and artists from around the world traveled to Linz for the opening, including Kevin Abosch, Mario Klingemann, Jan Robert Leegte, Martina Menegon, Anne Schwanz from Office Impart, Wolf Lieser from the DAM Gallery, and many more.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-312cecb2e73b5b505f4fa41afae327fe382e9157-5457x3667-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-312cecb2e73b5b505f4fa41afae327fe382e9157-5457x3667-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"a305fa7bd4ca","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8b1ed20b5a2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5be7997753d","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What happens next? How many publication projects are you currently working on?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"480c969882f3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a91cafb6da40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"SP: The foundation has planned several project modules for the coming years, all of which aim to bridge the gap between science and art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6286356d2211","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"839c4ace62fa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Project Art Theory: Currently, work is underway on the translation of THE PHENOMENON OF ART. I intend to publish the book containing Herbert's art theoretical reflections in English next year. Additionally, I want to support a research project in the field of neuroaesthetics. Perhaps this project can also be combined with a scientific symposium and an exhibition."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ef982603e5a8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f0ecf6efcb340","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Then there’s the block on science fiction. The print edition of all literary works will largely be completed by the end of 2024. The foundation will soon release the eBooks of the entire collected works. THE ORCHID CAGE has just been released in a new translation by Springer. The goal, of course, is to make the most important literary works—five novels—available in English translation as well."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ab233d7bc806","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6559c59ffc010","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This project area also includes the previously mentioned theme of \"philosophical worldview,\" featuring the science fiction novel CENTER OF THE MILKY WAY, the non-fiction book P-PRINCIPLE, and cellular automata as artistic implementation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1054bbbfdf6f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3735fe9386540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Last but not least, the foundation has initiated discussions with the Austrian Association for Karst and Cave Research, aiming to highlight Herbert's historical role in geology with the theoretical discovery of the method for dating stalactites, which Herbert pursued in the following decades leading to geochronological and climatological research. There are wonderful intersections with his science fiction works, such as his theoretical considerations regarding the caves on Mars, which he developed for a commemorative lecture for the Austrian Cave Association in the 1990s. His intense engagement with Mars naturally led him directly into science fiction, particularly to his novel REFUGE MARS (by the way, a title that was changed to ESCAPE MARS by dtv, much to Herbert's annoyance), where the Martian caves only represent a small facet on the sidelines. His friends from cave research, who often also read his literary works, took note of this with a smile back then."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c0e99420aa5c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bd8333b7e9e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1ed544ddb664","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you very much for the conversation, and best of luck with all the upcoming projects."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"247db7316d52","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"1bcd7535b277","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"434a10d495250","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The German version of the interview has been published by the Foundation Herbert W. Franke on "},{"_key":"1ef9494a030b","_type":"span","marks":["1adb75158542"],"text":"their website"},{"_key":"927281a54867","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"1adb75158542","_type":"link","url":"https://art-meets-science.io/mein-leben-mit-einem-visionaer/"}],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9846a6d926ea","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"f3291d11d2a5","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a5d569ef-420a-487c-acc4-710b9ebf2412","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"a030b4882d9e","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"50211eddefa2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-494523777290","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"facb69944400","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-501020819722","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"a64b4afd84b2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-499889668362","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"deb9a0e589d7","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"c704c0bcf9ab","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"05554971-3a10-47c7-a525-b0d3a8cb91ff","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"e63bcf63775e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a826a73e-0b6a-485c-962d-4990c7bb9bb3","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"1c056447bf0f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"6e487791-3f84-451c-8786-1faf413b057c","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"1c6f3496073c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"6f2c2039-bb67-4a50-b6be-68895cb80771","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9c27ed07571a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"151fdf74-a727-4b7e-abdc-4afcc00d094a","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"eaefce8920e0","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"606c8092447f","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"07e2fe8b-9431-4e2c-b0b7-e283980879db","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"9daa05411ba5","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"b62021b5-1d4b-4613-ab72-79db791fcce6","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"8c6964c6fc78","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"f47ade0795a1","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-10-10T12:30:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Dr. Susanne Päch is a journalist and media expert. She holds a PhD in the history of science as well as communication. Her husband was Herbert W. Franke. She manages his estate and art meets science – the Foundation Herbert W. Franke. \n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Susanne Päch reflects on her time with Herbert W. Franke and discusses what makes his life's work still so relevant today. She also shares her work for the Foundation Herbert W. Franke, including the Generative Art Summit and publication projects such as THE ORCHID CAGE, and explains how art and communication have changed in the post-digital age.","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3ab0521ba291653ecd8ac1157d51884b5ce75ca9-1440x1440-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"susanne-päch-on-her-life-with-herbert-w-franke"},"store":null,"subtitle":"GENERATIVE ART, SCIENCE FICTION AND SCIENCE","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3ab0521ba291653ecd8ac1157d51884b5ce75ca9-1440x1440-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"SUSANNE PÄCH ON HER LIFE WITH HERBERT W. FRANKE"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"993781b6b060","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2022-12-01T07:32:42Z","_id":"05554971-3a10-47c7-a525-b0d3a8cb91ff","_rev":"RbvYcRDNbBIseOVVtb0QnD","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2023-11-18T19:32:22Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d47f1510a7e19d86a9f8f320923087dd9ce694d1-1000x1015-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"2f56ee7e4cd2","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"e23120f2c10c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a66d29b659fd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Herbert W. Franke is a universal genius; you can say that with a clear conscience. For several decades, he separated three lives: the caver and scientist, the artist and curator, the art theorist, and the science fiction author. Only on the occasion of his solo exhibition in 2010 at the ZKM Karlsruhe did he bring these three lives and careers together under the title \"Wanderer Between the Worlds\". In the early 1950s, caving led him to experiment with light and technology. He kept his curiosity throughout his life; it was his drive to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. His pioneering spirit made him one of the first computer artists who was more than six decades ahead of his time. Franke discussed his visionary practice with Anika Meier in June 2022."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"3296eddc49ed","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c0b91f66e6a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke turned 95 in May, and the world seems to finally have caught up with his art and thinking. Herbert W. Franke and I met through the work of Alfred Weidinger, the director of the Francisco Carolinum, which was showing his solo exhibition VISIONARY. When we first met, I asked him if he was aware that he was a legend, especially for \"the people on the internet\". He said in disbelief, \"Really?\" I asked him to come on Twitter and see for himself. He did this with the help of his wife, Susanne Päch. The rest is history. He was followed by 10,000 people within 48 hours, and his first tweet has over 15,000 likes and 3,000 retweets. The dinosaur, as he calls himself, went viral. His first NFT drop was sold out within 30 seconds; he was the headliner at the Tezos Booth at Art Basel with a work from 1979. In 1970, Franke was represented at the Venice Biennale and showed a screen print of the series SQUARES created with the digital computer, in which he let chance and algorithm work together. Herbert W. Franke died on July 16, 2022, at the age of 95, leaving behind an extensive oeuvre."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e0ae1af3a4ee","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ce36fbeaaff90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5a8055b3604a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke at Francisco Carolinum, Linz, at the opening of his solo exhibition VISIONARY in 2022. Credit: Francisco Carolinum Linz. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8e26634ae68ee8f082882e347c80cafa335aa60e-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8e26634ae68ee8f082882e347c80cafa335aa60e-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"681389e40fa9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"942962427fab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"945c23e3709f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Mr. Franke, you are an artist, scientist, and science fiction author. How did you manage to combine three CVs over many decades?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b8287c5b8409","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"78916a8193c40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Herbert W. Franke: I don't know if you mean \"operatively.\" In fact, I kept these resumes separate for a long time. Many people who knew me through my works and publications were surprised to learn that I was also involved in seemingly unrelated fields such as computer art and vice versa. It was even more pronounced in caving. In any case, there were three CVs in my office cupboard for many decades, which I used as needed. It was only with the exhibition \"Wanderers Between the Worlds\" at ZKM Karlsruhe, Germany, that the connection was made between these three fields. They probably all corresponded to my tendency to break new ground."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"61a3658a3b5f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8b34a850549","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b3bbe0ff73060","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Today, it is quite common for artists to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. How did you start your first artistic experiments in the 1950s?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b21a557cb988","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"501c170659700","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: I came into art from science. I had noticed how \"beautiful\" some pictures of physics were, especially with the latest instruments such as scanning electron microscopes, telescopes, and particle accelerators, but also photographs of structures in nature. That made me curious as to why that is – and how art is related to it. In physics, as in nature, there had to be principles of order that have an aesthetic effect. It quickly became clear to me that straight curves, which can be described well in mathematical terms, possess a lot of aesthetic potential. So I started experimenting with them and synthesizing them in the photo lab – or calculating them with an analogue computer."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"15a32aa0537d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"97bbf419d5dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d49c08918d50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were the reactions at the time to your experiments combining art and science?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ff90209b2866","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e633ba6073c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HW: Experiments with light, and nothing else, were my works at the time. They drew very little interest from the classical art world, let alone the art market. It was easy to publish such thoughts in magazines for photography or design; I wrote a number of articles at the time, but the traditional art world largely ignored such tendencies back then."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"a0b1adc02f4d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cd443dad465d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ca02486c7f90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did the reception change over the decades? You have been active as an artist for more than sixty years."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"95df5276c9b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4bda710223c20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Well, I have the impression that at the very beginning, producing this kind of art had at least some kind of curiosity effect. Then came the computer, and as it started to take off on a large scale, a lot of young people jumped on it and flooded the world with more or less relevant work. This may even have led to increased rejection in the traditional art world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"dc05d30a287c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Mathematica, Flares, 2009.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a565b1033ce4ceee5336ab18d287b07b93435389-1800x1800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a565b1033ce4ceee5336ab18d287b07b93435389-1800x1800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"d2c6bfab95c0","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8f79c750167f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1e94fdbd9580","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: If you think back to your first artistic experiments today, at what point did you dare to call yourself an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d3156da312a0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"89cf807af4310","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: That was relatively early, in the 1950s. Because I developed these works with conscientiousness and care, I have decided to call myself an artist. Incidentally, this was supported by a very far-sighted art historian, Franz Roh, who, as a mentor, pointed out tome in the 1950s that I should pursue these new approaches seriously. At the time, many of the early pioneers did not dare call their work art and instead categorized it as design. But I just had nothing to lose. And I was also convinced that I was on the right track of knowledge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e6cc8d0b3e9c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d3de4ddca46d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1056ef9cf2f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were your influences, both as an artist and as a writer? Who has inspired you in your work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ace0700ae2a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"34bf78fc5de00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: In literature, these were the authors of the Prague Circle and a few authors of American science fiction. When I started writing professionally in the 1960s, these authors could only be found very sporadically on the German market. In art, Franz Roh should be mentioned, but then also the cybernetician and communications engineer Karl Steinbuch, who strongly encouraged me and my information-aesthetic approach in the 1960s. I would also like to mention the perceptual-psychological work of the mathematician and educator Helmar Frank, with whom I have also published some work."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b4cf2c42fe14","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7f96644edc2b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4df2807558880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have been active on Twitter since March and, as a result, have become part of a global community of artists and collectors. Artists today share their work on social media and offer NFTs for sale on marketplaces. As an artist, curator, and author, you yourself were strongly involved in the community of pioneers in the field of computer art and generative art. You have written numerous books and curated exhibitions, such as the traveling exhibition for the Goethe Institute, which was shown in 200 cities. Today, it takes just a few clicks to get information, build up a network and organize exhibitions. How did you explore and exchange ideas and how do you keep up-to-date?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"408f73cff817","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56e3eb07ce310","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: At that time, we mainly had the mail – and then, increasingly, the telephone before fax came along. But communication overseas was so expensive back then that people usually used the post office. Occasionally, you could also see colleagues at conferences and symposiums, which were often accompanied by small exhibitions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"174ec3634d84","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Mondrian, Herbert W. Franke, 1979.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7dcedb1fae4b86eef61cdad83a21cba7fce152b9-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e9d932b0cbbd8db28022b83c37c1e3d1cf2b691d-375x667-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"12998f3c94f9","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f96358ea85b2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38751688e9880","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: 1,800 of your manuscripts are in the ZKM Karlsruhe archive. That's a very significant number. As a science fiction author, you have won numerous important prizes, and your publications in the field of computer art are still standard works. What was your daily routine back then?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9ce20fabd423","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7a1b33e05b210","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: It was very different. I was self-employed, and my bread and butter was writing. So I had to offer articles or books to magazines and publishers by mail. And you had to offer more than was realized; that was part of the business. But I also did many lecture tours, especially at the beginning of my career."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"216dffc9e9b8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"69b3f560eab20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Very early on, I switched from using the typewriter myself to dictating, because I quickly discovered that I can dictate much faster than I can type. And so, early on, I looked for typists who could write from tape. At the beginning of my career, I lived with a film producer who had good connections to the large Bavaria film production company nearby. There were experienced secretaries working at the company who were very happy to do such work as a side job. At first it was just the mail that I dictated, but by the early 1960s, I was also dictating my novels. I think I've reached a certain level of perfection in that."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e2312dc5ebd5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c0e5e94667a00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The summer months were the time when I wrote long novels. During this time, there were a few other activities, such as attending to correspondence and also a few lecture tours. To write, I would lie down on a deck chair for a few weeks – either outdoors or in my cactus house if the weather was bad – and dictate page after page into my Uher tape, including the punctuation marks. The typists were always very grateful and said that the Bavarian bosses, for whom they worked during the day, would do much worse. In a few weeks, such a novel was dictated in one go. On average, I would dictate over several hours at a rate of maybe ten manuscript pages a day. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0496c52f590f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da15f31511620","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There was no word processing back then, which means that corrections were only possible to a very limited extent. I somehow had to keep all the characters and the course of the story in my head. When I was writing novels, I was in a kind of tunnel for weeks. Similarly, when I was on expeditions into caves – which usually lasted 14 days – I was also in a parallel world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ceb6c8f18920","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4b883266e48d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5490423027b90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your work as a science fiction author was closely intertwined with your work as an artist and scientist. Has writing influenced your work as an artist and vice versa?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"967c1ae3a36e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d3e74cdda540","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Certainly not in a specific sense. But it was clear that, even as an author, I was already asking myself what the social meaning of my work was. And right from the start, I abstracted from my artistic practice to such an extent that it should cover all art forms: from images to music to literature. The insights that I drew from these considerations have been taken into account both in literature and in the visual arts. They showed me that art – no matter what form it takes – has an important task in society because it promotes learning processes. Abstract art trains perception, shapes recognition processes and the like. In literature, envisioning different scenarios of the future can help actively shape it instead of letting it just happen."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"892126afe4a3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8965f91d70600","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Incidentally, in the course of my life I have often come across readers who have told me that my stories and novels were important reasons for their decision to become scientists or engineers. The nice thing is that now, in my later years, I hear very similar statements about my works of fine art. That's wonderful, because it's a late confirmation that this artistic activity not only brought me joy personally but was also effective. What more could an artist ever ask for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0d6d3a735177","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9762a5e5b699","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ddff21478800","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You were a pioneer all your life and way ahead of your time. In your 1970 novel ZONE ZERO, you describe the Metaverse as a world more real and livable to humans than the real world. How did you get interested in the Metaverse? Today, it is inevitable to hear about it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2de8c2aa87a2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"19533542821d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Well, it actually started as early as 1960 with individual stories in the GREEN COMET – and the first novel, THE THOUGHT NET, as well as the second, THE ORCHID CAGE, both published in 1961, play with virtual worlds in different ways. It was already clear to me back then that they would become a reality for us due to the growing technical possibilities. And I was convinced that they would not only raise philosophical questions, but also pose the threat of perfect surveillance on a massive scale, which is something I already had to experience as a teenager under National Socialism."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d0456af23272","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Math Art, Felder, 1985-1992.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61d393d9213f81f49c710c35faab02d8883187d9-1270x1255-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-61d393d9213f81f49c710c35faab02d8883187d9-1270x1255-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"12cee0d1d044","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"68ef72c8ce07","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"583a88e753100","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In 2005, you actually arrived in a metaverse yourself, namely Active Worlds. Together with your wife, Susanne Päch, you rented a piece of land there and built the Z-Galaxy, which you opened in 2008 with an exhibition you curated. Why was it important for you, as an artist and curator, to exhibit your art in a virtual world?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"67804317d894","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"eef13676698e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: It wasn't a plan or a goal. It was an experiment like many others, a new technology that I had long been familiar with from my imagination. Now, I was able to design it for the first time myself – still on a monitor and by no means a ‘real’ virtual world as in my stories."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5e40ba6bb9e1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9722265110ec","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d60453f145030","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What did you learn about the Metaverse from this?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"20da1ebcff9c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1c622c6a0ff10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Well, first of all, I learned that designing the Metaverse in my own head is much easier. The network quality, which was still much worse at the time, the limitations in the software, everything was still very imperfect. Yet, it was still a start. I was inspired by other worlds like Derrick Woodham's virtual sculpture park or the exotic Martian landscape to wander around. It was important to me as an artist that I could construct something myself – and Active Worlds offered this possibility, in contrast to the Second Life platform, which was then much better marketed. However, as an \"artistic world builder,\" you could, on the Second Life platform, only use ready-made components, but you couldn’t construct them yourself."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f0a0ecadd643","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Fotoexperimente Bandformen, 1953-1954.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f114bde5110907f93fa1982dd44aa1fb365582a7-1800x2477-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f114bde5110907f93fa1982dd44aa1fb365582a7-1800x2477-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"contain","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"4ffba4cffd99","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ae98128e538c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4bf44a8c4bfa0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: I'm sure you've been following the discussions about the Metaverse, which has been on everyone's lips since Mark Zuckerberg announced his plans for his company, Meta. Do you have any concerns, or do you see a bright future?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"99930ee64947","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1d93196f52b70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: I would like to put it this way: the ambivalence of all technologies is given. It is up to us, as humans, to use them in one way or another. The possibilities of the Metaverse are tremendous, but so is their potential for abuse, as previously mentioned with regard to the surveillance of citizens by autocratic systems.\n\nHowever, as far as the philosophical approach to fictional worlds is concerned, I think we should be careful not to view such possible futures too much in terms of our current values. Norms and values are not set in stone. They adapt to changes and, thus, also to technologies. Does such a technologically constructed, fictional world have to be a world of second choice? Does the reality around us necessarily matter more? Does it really have to be a loss of reality when another reality emerges?\n\nWe are familiar with social networks today. But if these networks continue to develop into real worlds in which we stay, live, and feel, then perhaps – I hope – individuals could grow together into a stronger collective with closer relationships where the interests of the other are more valued than in our individualistic Western culture. On the other hand, of course, I also see the dangers, because the perfection of these worlds gives autocrats and dictators completely new possibilities of manipulation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"538419378733","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bbcd0a952b15","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a821f91ed3d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As an artist and scientist, you have always been driven by questions that you wanted to answer for yourself and that have social relevance. You worked on the MATH ART series from 1980 to 1995, i.e., for 15 years. That's a very long time. How did you come to work on this series and what was your goal?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"78cf2225965b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"72dd375c0db70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: The MATH ART series was created on a computer at the German Aerospace Research Center (DLR) in Oberpfaffenhofen. The in-house development of the system served to evaluate raw image data recorded by satellites operated by Germany or the European Space Agency (ESA). The institute developed its own software for image evaluation for the system, which worked with the latest mathematical algorithms to extract the best information from the data.\n\nThe head of the Institute for Communications Engineering came into contact with me in 1979. Ernst Triendl had a PhD in Mathematics and, like some of these thinkers, was a bit unusual. In the afternoons, for example, he lay down in his office on a couch specially set up there for a pause for thought – and, of course, it wasn’t allowed to disturb him. Perhaps his eccentricity was one of the reasons why he quickly became interested in my not very conventional ideas of seeing mathematics as the creative key to art.\n\nWe quickly found each other in a conversation. One idea led to another, and in the end, it was all about the aesthetic potential of the Fourier transforms. These algorithms are of the greatest importance for image analysis in communication technology. This is because they can be used to calculate the noise from the data transmitted by radio. They are an important tool in pattern recognition and for the evaluation of satellite data. At the end of the conversation, there was an appointment where we wanted to follow up with practical experiments on this computer system. It was no longer a matter of applying Fourier transforms to existing data or images, but of exploring the mathematical principle as such. The result was a set of images of Fourier transforms that were not yet so brilliantly colored, but which showed me that this path could be very promising.\n\nHowever, something stood in the way: the head of a DLR institute naturally has other tasks than dealing with the beauty of mathematics. His job is to run an institute. But I was so fascinated by the results that it was obvious how much I would like to continue this work. So Triendl brought me together with an employee, Horst Helbig, who was a physicist and computer scientist. At the Institute, he was instrumental in the development of algorithms for image analysis – the software DIBIAS (for Digital Image Analysis System). My ideas immediately fascinated Helbig, who was a rather calm but precise worker."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"366a0b719ecc","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Herbert W. Franke watching his NFT Drop MATH ART selling out in 30 seconds. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ea92e013ca49015065b8b5de74259a9032105d2b-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ea92e013ca49015065b8b5de74259a9032105d2b-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"fc9d04604bcd","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ed37bf51c3d6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da6d589bce8a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: If I understand you correctly, there was no official \"legitimacy\" in DLR. How was it possible to carry out the MATH ART project for 15 years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"6385c49795a9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e267fcc65a790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: This was made possible by a special rule at the institute: at the weekend, employees were allowed to use the computer system, which ran 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for private purposes. The offer was rarely taken up. So it quickly developed that Helbig and I sat together every two weeks on Saturdays in the otherwise deserted institute and experimented with mathematical formulas.\n\nThe end of this cooperation was not due to the fact that the two of them lost interest or that the work was completed. Rather, this happened because the computer that DLR had built itself was replaced in 1995 by the American system from NASA for reasons of compatibility. The entire system and the DIBIAS software were therefore scrapped. The system was offered to me, but unfortunately there was no way for me to accommodate the machine, which required an entire air-conditioned room."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9415b938a0eb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"08eed586aca2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d72c54bc0710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In these fifteen years, a very extensive body of work was created. You chose 100 images from this series for your first NFT drop, which sold out within 30 seconds on the NFT platform Quantum. How did you choose the images?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"243d0307f91f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7c794d44c4990","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: The images selected for the NFT drop come from the period of 1980 to 1988. They are based on a selection of images from the book THE WORLD OF MATHEMATICS, which was published by VDI-Verlag (VDI Association of German Engineers) in 1988. Shortly before that, the exhibition THE BEAUTY OF MATHEMATICS had been on display in the Siemens Museum in Munich, where a number of images from the series were displayed in enlarged form.\n\nIn connection with my exhibition VISIONARY, the Francisco Carolinum in Linz has started to digitize the entire archive of MATH ART in high quality and has produced transparent light boxes for this purpose, which now show the images as I saw them on the screen for the first time. It is an extensive collection, and I am, therefore, very pleased that MATH ART is to be made accessible in an edition."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"82e12af8917c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Phantastische Welten, 2001-2004.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f6b1777e0dad308ff4e6c97695f673083cfa72f6-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f6b1777e0dad308ff4e6c97695f673083cfa72f6-1280x720-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"cover","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"711b31019e34","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"23f26c32b760","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ae9480070ca80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How important is the MATH ART group in your work?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c1a35d59fbcd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e2a2d5084bda0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: The extensive group of works, with their numerous series, is, of course, of great importance to me. But it's not just the scope, it's also the meaning: art is traced back to pure mathematics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5d0ba5aced4c","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b6754e162916","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aa62a8f784740","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you look back on your artistic work, what do you consider to be your most important work and greatest achievement?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"78608077aac8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8e77e8fa7a70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: That's a question I can't answer. Every era has its own tools and technologies, and I think every achievement enriches and gives impetus for the next step. But if I had to choose, I would pick a series that isn't particularly extensive: The SQUARES series, which I first started in 1967, paved the way for me to explore art experimentally with the exact methods of a natural scientist. That was a major breakthrough for me, as it allowed me to consider the phenomenon of art through a rational analysis."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7f402432c68b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"bba8e66732f3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a448166b9b30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is there something you haven't achieved yet that you still wish for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"cd3748cd8c59","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"52ef154339800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"HWF: Oh, there is still so much to explore. I would like to have a little more time for it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5de25b6aca3b","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"cc7e1adfd1c0","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a5d569ef-420a-487c-acc4-710b9ebf2412","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"7fb2d4115bec","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"23d984a9a527","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-487692239114","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"7612c8bcdddb","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"baeba922fa0c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"6f2c2039-bb67-4a50-b6be-68895cb80771","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"8ae79fe3d656","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a826a73e-0b6a-485c-962d-4990c7bb9bb3","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"5e9e7f644ba6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"6e487791-3f84-451c-8786-1faf413b057c","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"MAGAZINE"},{"_key":"5b13d2960259","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"33d86a424332","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"b62021b5-1d4b-4613-ab72-79db791fcce6","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"bd1ff85eec23","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"07e2fe8b-9431-4e2c-b0b7-e283980879db","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"df92e9665235","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"bb654090-dba4-4064-8712-ded79ddd97cd","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"24aa117fa141","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"ed8b5da9-68b4-499a-81c9-3961d1b57935","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2022-12-01T16:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Herbert W. Franke is a universal genius, you can say that with a clear conscience. For several decades he separated three lives: he was the caver and scientist, the artist and curator, the art theorist and the science fiction author. Only on the occasion his solo exhibition in 2010 at the ZKM Karlsruhe did he bring these three lives and careers together under the title \"Wanderer Between the Worlds\". In the early 1950s caving led him to experiment with light and technology. He kept his curiosity throughout his life; it was his drive to examine new technologies for their artistic potential. His pioneering spirit made him one of the first computer artists who was more than six decades ahead of his time. Franke discussed his visionary practice with Anika Meier in June 2022.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"herbertwfranke-in-conversation-with-anika-meier"},"store":null,"subtitle":"INTERVIEW WITH HERBERT W. FRANKE","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a565b1033ce4ceee5336ab18d287b07b93435389-1800x1800-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"title":"\"TECHNOLOGY IS NOT A THREAT TO ART\""},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"6f905190cd38","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-07-19T15:34:12Z","_id":"801edfda-ec29-4679-bdf9-de4ef514e2ea","_rev":"4wEBWQNS7UGPf0n7kN0ass","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-07-27T13:23:14Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-be8127196222a83e33c0683795a068a316854128-842x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"c2dc6a6229ce","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"bdf89a0a4a8d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5b205ccb5ea80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Born in Spain in 1993, Harto embodies the convergence of different disciplines in his role as an artist and designer, weaving elements of the natural world, theatrical representation, and digital innovation into his work. His academic background in industrial design and prototyping, from which he graduated in 2016, provided a solid foundation for his artistic career."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7ec4e704ecd1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"973dd47973380","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The global pandemic in 2020 marked a decisive turning point in Harto's artistic development. The decision to abandon theatre and the tangible world of his previous work to immerse himself in the digital world, specifically the novel and emerging world of NFTs, was a significant shift. His transition was quickly successful; within months, Harto's digital creations were being exhibited at international events."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"2f9e0ba6d85a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a577403f0100","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"His work has been exhibited in prestigious art venues such as New York, Miami, and Hong Kong, as well as on the ISS (International Space Station). His most notable collaboration involved an interpretation of Klimt's THE KISS commissioned by the Belvedere Museum in Vienna in 2024."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c79bca4bf40b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7653a40113780","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Harto discusses his beginnings as an artist, working with code as a medium, plotter drawings and ordinals. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d20f2f89fea5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"84280dfcf7fe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"05e823f7cbec0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: With an academic background in industrial design and prototyping, what led you to focus on art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2828fa3a8296","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"af72daba2d890","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: Ever since I was a child, I've been interested in art; I've been drawing for as long as I can remember. I always liked to mix art with experimentation—when I was a kid, I wanted to be an inventor or a mad scientist. This experimentation evolved into technical studies, which gradually shifted towards design and art.\n\nI started by studying engineering, then moved on to generalist design, and ended up doing industrial prototyping at La Massana school in Barcelona, which blends art and craftsmanship. The school opened my mind, as its studies, very similar to those of the Bauhaus, had a very multidisciplinary learning plan with open workshops in all artistic fields. There, I learned ceramics, painting, jewelry, 3D modeling, and much more."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"be3c962ecf8b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7d86dd3ef32e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"437fb50a8f6d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Does your background in industrial design and prototyping influence your practice as an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"43b4038f7e91","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"84656dfb23db0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: Industrial design and prototyping have given me a technical vision and structure for my artistic practice, especially in the thought processes. I have always been interested in technology and innovation—it serves as a gateway to the unknown. The connection between these two worlds is limitless; I always strive to intertwine my philosophy with blockchain in some way. Geometric abstraction and generative art enable me to create a representation of how I perceive the intangible digital world that surrounds us."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"052cc4a53fa4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"092aaed16234","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"655771e480e80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you remember the moment when you first called yourself an \"artist\"?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"d00d755fd90e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d64b288b33430","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: Until very recently, perhaps last year, thanks to therapy. I struggled to accept my role as an artist. I always had the role of a repressed artist hidden within me. Being an artist is difficult, and making a living from it is an odyssey, as it takes years to establish yourself or to be able to sell your art. In my mind, it was more like a hobby because I believed I could never make a living from it. Thanks to blockchain technology, I've been able to open up and live out a childhood dream."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7792f8125771","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b1342dfd252b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f47df0787e0f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What did you create when you considered your artistic practice a hobby? Has your approach to creating new work changed now that you feel confident calling yourself an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1cdba5e51787","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"128160c613170","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: When I saw it more as a hobby, I mostly focused on 3D work, collages, character animations, fluids, and other experiments. I created without thinking much about the style or the meaning of the piece; it was fun but not very deep."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c7f6eee723c2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"919be5f9885e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"As I began to take art more seriously, my style underwent significant changes. I transitioned from surrealist work to abstract and geometric art. I believe I applied some of my design philosophy, where less is more, and simplified much of what I did into something new."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7da375668195","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Golden Ratio #999, algorithm, 2023. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ecd872b221b7f0f458b2f21ab488efece9e05307-1190x1684-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ecd872b221b7f0f458b2f21ab488efece9e05307-1190x1684-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"260f72eb4e2e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5ee86c22a648","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3c05d8483d050","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When you moved to abstract and geometric art, were you inspired by the early pioneers of computer art and classical modernism?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8acbab87b28f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"70aa58c3627b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: Yes, I’m inspired by some pioneers, but I like to explore artists from all eras and draw references from different styles. Personally, I have always admired the movement created by the Memphis Group in the 1980s, the experimental movements of the Bauhaus, particularly the works of Gunta Stölzl, and legendary abstract painters like Paul Klee. I believe that the continued relevance of these works is due to their timelessness, which is what I aim for when drawing inspiration from other artists."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"da8e3124b066","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"425475c8e0ea","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"87bea6d87bc40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Why did you decide to focus on the digital realm?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"59520d63239a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e6f38dbff95c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: I am someone who doesn't like to set limits; I enjoy researching, innovating, and trying new things. We live in the digital age, which feels like an evolved extension of the natural world, where everything seems unreal, and that appeals to me. I believe that we can take art to new dimensions thanks to the acceleration of new technologies."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ed789e5baf8a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4b6afce8f10c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"00a83b067d600","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: In which ways has working with technology accelerated your artistic practice?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0681002e9ff2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2190a4d381a10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: Technology is useful for many things, but the most important aspect for me is the ease of creating iterations or prototypes. When you paint a physical piece, you can spend days or months on a single part of the work, and all changes are extremely slow. With technology, especially with code, I can conduct hundreds of experiments once I have a solid base. It’s true that in the first hours or days, you might be in a stage where the result is not very representative of the final piece, but once you find what you’re looking for, you can create an infinite number of nuances with small modifications. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"56caabdd40e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d857d4ac19aa","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Another crucial aspect of my work right now is the use of artificial intelligence. I use it daily, mainly to assist with ideas, organization, code bugs, and numerous solutions that would typically take hours or days. We are living in an era of technological acceleration, and this is just the beginning."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"157507e90922","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto x Belvedere, FloraForm #620, algorithm, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c01b86085b7f4330116974908a6c098fddf3dddb-1462x1462-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c01b86085b7f4330116974908a6c098fddf3dddb-1462x1462-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"2c22b2ae3021","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9a88bb56c5d9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4f377dc7c8290","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your breakthrough in the NFT space seems to have happened by releasing NFTs on the Bitcoin blockchain. Why did you decide to move to Bitcoin?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1c0a5ee5c00c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bb1f863df91f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: I consider myself a person who likes to explore new techniques and technologies. I experimented with different blockchains like Ethereum, Solana, and Tezos. Each one is very interesting, but something bothered me about all of them: the simplicity of doing things on-chain. I wanted to upload my art in a way that was permanent and immutable. This is not to say that it can’t be done on Ethereum—in fact, I have a collection on Ethereum that is completely on-chain—but it’s heavier, tricky to set up, and more expensive. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d661ed080e98","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9e08242c66f9","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ordinals have very interesting features, such as recursion and parent-child provenance. Recursion allows us to use code that someone else or we ourselves have uploaded to the blockchain and make a callback using JavaScript. This allows a generative artist to upload the parent code only once and inscribe tiny HTML files that render completely on-chain at a very low cost (2-5 times cheaper than on Ethereum). "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"67ddffc677da","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"327a6870e2b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the case of IMMUTABLE MEMORIES, I wanted to use the ordinal as a certificate of immutability by connecting the Ethereum artwork (jpg) with the Ethereum ID, creating a second layer for the collector. This layer allows them not only to verify the artwork’s data but also to have an on-chain representation of it in Bitcoin. At the end of the day, the blockchain is just a medium to represent art that can be distributed across different blockchains, similar to how in the real world a traditional artist creates a painting along with a certificate that verifies it."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"18c71595f932","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"be4f5837043d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dbfc73a4e8980","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: A collaboration with a museum quickly followed. The Belvedere Museum in Vienna, which is famous, among others, for having THE KISS by Gustav Klimt in its collection. Can you tell us more about this collaboration?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c0bd0cfd9bfd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0d6db5ef22230","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: The collaboration with the Belvedere Museum was a significant challenge since I had little time to complete it, and I put a lot of pressure on myself because it was the first time I was collaborating with an institution of that artistic level. However, despite the pressure, it was very easy to work with the Belvedere because they gave me total freedom of expression and artistic liberty to represent Klimt's work as I wished. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7dd4fd1502b1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5d273511e4b3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"It was an incredible adventure, as our entire team went to Vienna on the day of the mint, which was an instant sell-out, and we received a lot of support from the community. The piece is a representation of THE KISS, blending my style with that of Klimt. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"ad07c9633e51","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7d2c83575c79","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I attempted to dissect each part of the composition to create something new with basic geometry. The most challenging part for me was to follow the scheme he uses in the work because I didn't want it to be the same. I transformed the human figures into an interweaving of squares, which best represents me in recent years, along with noise, paper textures, and effects that evoke the sensation of viewing something old. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6924b0721bab","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cc1a20567bd2","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The flowers are not as prominent in the original work, but I drew inspiration from other works by Klimt, such as FLOWER GARDEN. Collectors loved the collection because it brought something new to the ecosystem, and it was the first collaboration with a museum using Bitcoin. In less than a year, the collection has visited many cities and events, and every Sunday, we send flowers on Twitter, which I find very lovely."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f447840f809a","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Immutable Memories #9, algorithm, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-547ffacfdcfca75b6e7c80c60cff7e147d4f96c7-842x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-547ffacfdcfca75b6e7c80c60cff7e147d4f96c7-842x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"c32e8c1bee35","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5177d86f1b0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a91ac45079920","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: With your latest collection, IMMUTABLE MEMORIES, you are part of the group show THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954-2024 on view at EXPANDED.ART. It is a combination of an NFT and the physical counterpart. Why did you decide to combine an NFT with a plotter drawing?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"2efb63527d6c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"61ff67064d560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: I believe plotters are a perfect extension for generative art. We transition from the idea that it is something analog and comes from us to the code, and the work ends up back in the tangible world. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"15e2eb89ad0b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f37bddf9bf9e","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The interesting thing about all this is that the plotter will never give the same result as the digital work, and it is also intriguing to experiment with materials to further distance it from what is seen on the screen. Just changing a layer, the colors that will never be exactly the same, or the bugs caused by the machine, gives a completely different result. It's as if the work goes through different phases and takes a new creative path."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f14982dd6bfb","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Immutable Memories, process: first tests with displacements, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-044401b450708bca38ee0c86157eb6eaf3dde765-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-044401b450708bca38ee0c86157eb6eaf3dde765-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"b1e1c2df7aa7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d6c84b70ca77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"50da289852810","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How did you approach working on the project?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8bee71e6b298","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cb7ee07002110","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: I went through many different phases. I always start with a search for inspiration, whether from my surroundings, other artists, a concept, a theatre piece... Once I find something that interests me, I create a mental and digital map of everything that could be possible, like a tree with hundreds of branches. When I find a branch that could work, I dissect it into different algorithms and start experimenting with different things. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fa824c03c271","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3f29c9de3ce","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"During the prototyping phase, there is a second or third search to refine the concept, colors, etc. In this project, I was very interested in transparency, layers, painting, and the basic drawing techniques we learn as children and often forget. Therefore, I wanted to capture the work on the blockchain in different ways and not forget those memories."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6c8891ea4070","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4bcc762ec27f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a066b1e4ac8f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What does the title IMMUTABLE MEMORIES stand for?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3d1b7bcb1981","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"087e92c3cfa00","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: The work is a search into the past. I think I missed the feel of colors, crayons, markers, watercolors. I wanted to do a regressive exploration of what I used to do when I was little, that memory we start to forget. Most of my works from when I was a child or teenager have been destroyed; I always threw almost everything away. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"226813f9824a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d59615bd645c","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I used to draw a lot, every day, and couldn't keep everything, plus I am very critical of myself. I think that's why I wanted to use different technologies and techniques with this work. Perhaps if we spread our works across different worlds, they will be more resilient in the face of adversity."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"94747e6a7b66","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Immutable Memories, process: layering tests, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f3dc2bd3b9027338c47a4fb0103a534755d281c2-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f3dc2bd3b9027338c47a4fb0103a534755d281c2-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"a3718e4a307a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"a3fd5989e2ad","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b4fbd66f02600","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You worked with watercolors, and if I remember correctly from our conversation, watercolors are a connection to your childhood."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f25ea63c243a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bf05e2ec312b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: The first time I approached painting was with watercolors; it's a very accessible technique for anyone, cheap, and very beautiful. It's like my madeleine of Proust; every time I work with watercolors, I have this flashback. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc8e52e8b5db","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8ea9b57055cc","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In recent years, I've used a lot of transparency in my code to somehow mimic those effects. When I started working on my series IMMUTABLE MEMORIES, it was the only medium I wanted to use, but in the end, I decided to mix in more basic materials because when you're a kid, you love to mix everything. I have a three-year-old daughter, and if she can use everything at her disposal, she will."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"9cce0cedc250","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"934905870677","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"db552e96462c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When thinking about the future of art on the blockchain and the uncertainty that might come with technology, do you think it’s important that collectors can also hold something physical in their hands? What do you, as the artist, value more? I am aware that this is like asking someone, \"Who is your favorite child?\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"38d25994be90","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0b44de65deed0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: As long as we continue living in the physical plane, tangible art will remain important. The problem we face now is that we are surrounded by screens that are not well-suited for art; most are too small or lack the right color, quality, or texture. Often, screens degrade the artwork, and we need to address this issue. For example, in my generation, very few people have a television at home, and if they want to view a large piece of art, they have no means to do so. Phones are not sufficient."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"f752d440e0ac","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ef90632b496c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I think that digital artists, even though we create everything on the computer or other devices, like to bring things into the physical realm, whether through a beautiful display, print, or 3D sculpture. Perhaps the day AR/VR technology becomes so advanced that we cannot distinguish reality from the digital world, we will be able to enhance that aspect."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"375509b04038","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Immutable Memories, process: distortion and fragmentation, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-25a047b2c028147912a6d5992cfb219fc325d43d-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-25a047b2c028147912a6d5992cfb219fc325d43d-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"15fd47f30791","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"aafbafb58832","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a3bdde0090220","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Are there any challenges when working with a plotter?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9aeaaaf5dc89","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"92f08d40cabc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: There are a lot of challenges when working with a plotter, especially the mix of techniques. IMMUTABLE MEMORIES has many layers and different colors, as well as effects, so I had to adapt gradually. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"86c076377f0e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fa460161ab12","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Each piece is different, and the outputs will never be the same, even if I wanted them to be. But I think that's the beauty of plotters, at least with this type of work. Many artists use one or two colors with plotters to reproduce exactly what is on the screen, but I was interested in a bit of chaos, surprise, and giving the work a second life."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"87293a5faf16","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Immutable Memories, process: coloring and complexity, 2024.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-81a93d6a2ecb7f71d962965d1a906995c09bc8c3-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-81a93d6a2ecb7f71d962965d1a906995c09bc8c3-1240x1754-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"052c847becd3","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"47798e3fa84a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"03ac4f8826a80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You have just mentioned that you also work with AI. What do you think artists working with code plus AI can contribute to the history of generative art?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8130060bb276","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"823d196d9b0c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: I believe AI can revolutionize all artistic aspects we know, from improving algorithms, increasing the speed of creation, providing new ideas, to enhancing code structures, etc."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3f69b7078e4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"686c46369b330","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Combining art with databases and training models is something I will work on in the coming months. I am someone who is passionate about new technologies, and I need to explore even more what AI can do for art. We need to take advantage of the computational power that machines have to improve everything around us, including art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"818953b126c7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"199fc5395b460","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f452ed703364","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Harto, Immutable Memories, process: simplification for plotting, 2024. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3ae71c4bb21f6f0dde915a998731a6e158753da6-842x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-3ae71c4bb21f6f0dde915a998731a6e158753da6-842x1191-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"5bb6d0878b4d","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"79e9f770c6e4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b6f6be0a30bb0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What’s your advice for artists who would like to get involved in the NFT space?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"02e753c022ae","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e7d686e240510","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Harto: The most important thing is not to be afraid to ask questions, collaborate with others, and do what you love. I don't think there is anything healthier than a group of artists on the blockchain, we help each other a lot. We are a small ecosystem of passionate people looking to innovate. I believe that without collaboration, progress cannot be made."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e7e2fb811b37","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7074d80b0b76","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6bcd0a1514b5","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for taking the time for this conversation!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7863651b66e2","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"22295294ea7a","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e37e77ba-7a8a-435d-984b-dbfb1c5fede6","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"6ca64322ea33","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"2e653dcccd9e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-525943177482","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"a4fdeee05c0c","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"7c14e3159fa6","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"52da69f8-e2cd-49cf-9713-8251599a4f30","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-07-18T16:00:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Born in Spain in 1993, Harto embodies the convergence of different disciplines in his role as an artist and designer, weaving elements of the natural world, theatrical representation, and digital innovation into his work. His academic background in industrial design and prototyping, from which he graduated in 2016, provided a solid foundation for his artistic career.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Harto discusses his beginnings as an artist, working with code as a medium, plotter drawings and ordinals. ","seoImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c01b86085b7f4330116974908a6c098fddf3dddb-1462x1462-png","_type":"reference"}},"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"harto-discussing-immutable-memories"},"store":null,"subtitle":"PLOTTER DRAWINGS AND ORDINALS ","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c01b86085b7f4330116974908a6c098fddf3dddb-1462x1462-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"HARTO: DISCUSSING IMMUTABLE MEMORIES"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"826db56f1851","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-07-24T23:47:22Z","_id":"5c5c51c9-47b8-4ba3-8013-537e35deaa60","_rev":"gCOgyMqD3hiPHKLzDc6MJY","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2025-02-25T12:41:38Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-a6f03048f70e83e012ad85b4cae9cc2333f5964f-1280x720-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"9afac9efb3b9","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"1a7e10e6d559","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"96afe120c1bd0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Photographer Jurgen Ostarhild’s 40-year career boasts an impressive resume of noteworthy gallery shows and portraits of cultural figures, fashion brands, and celebrities. Despite his roots in fashion photography, Ostarhild’s motivation for creating goes far beyond the lens of a camera. The artist has delved deep into dissecting the 0s and 1s that comprise a digital image. Through the reimagination of his imagery be it with Photoshop manipulation or hex codes, Ostarhild pushes the boundaries of what exactly a photograph is. NFTs, blockchain technology, and the Web3 community have driven his pursuit of digital art even further and it seems that he has only just begun.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Ostarhild discusses the fiction of photography, being haunted by inspiration, and poetry as visual art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"def5a214ee4e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Photo by Galya Feierman.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b87f2a1ac205b5422076a90129246f432aada713-1500x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-b87f2a1ac205b5422076a90129246f432aada713-1500x1500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"b6fde5ad6eaa","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1a70dad6af55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"360b8ec12c170","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: You are known for the photographs you took of Kate Moss and Martin Kippenberger and, of course, for your action fashion photography. How did you get into photography and start as a photographer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8ddcff4862b4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d1960332f8c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Jurgen Ostarhild: I was always interested in taking pictures with cameras because my visual motor skills are very limited. Also, photography was an easy way to make money without a degree. I came from a skateboard, snowboard, and surf culture and tried to convince the late bourgeois French fashion editors to adapt to my attitude about showing clothes in action."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fa108a406571","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4afbeec9dd1a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I guess in the early 1990s, Paris was ready for a fresh look at street style photography, which included remote locations like beaches, glaciers, or a volcano. Shooting all these wild things, I was always aware of technical changes in cameras, i.e., new super-fast autofocus systems. In 1992, I discovered Photoshop. This is where I could augment my reality, i.e., make snowboard jumps bigger or have a BMX bike jump off a building on Broadway."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"afd2a2ca06c9","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, Tigne, 1994.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ca90138b91f23b6a9b4de472ebc09e11a6a9d9ed-1529x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-ca90138b91f23b6a9b4de472ebc09e11a6a9d9ed-1529x2000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"eef5a1808d4f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"63f7fb9fa4c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d08f0168f0b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has your perception of the medium of photography and the role of the photographer changed over the course of your 40-year career?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"9593f8437f72","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1811590910030","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: Yes. Back in the 1980s, I used my camera as a tool to get in touch with people. I used to say, Hey, you look great. Can I take your portrait? Photography was an easy way to make money without any formal training."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"56a79bcdf4fa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"284478d9e2ff","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I have always been aware of technical changes in tools such as cameras. I discovered Photoshop in 1992 and got my first digital camera in 1996. In the early 2000s, I used Photoshop to build my own realities. Back then, I believed that photographers did not add anything \"new\" to the world by taking pictures of their reality. On a fashion shoot of Jean Paul Gaultier clothes, you only show the Jean Paul Gaultier reality. With Photoshop, I was able to create my own reality."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"34a95379fb02","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, KISS, 1999.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0e2282993d0a5171dacbb92431b233176a64ca86-1800x1215-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-0e2282993d0a5171dacbb92431b233176a64ca86-1800x1215-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"2d098e4188fe","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"24e06b472258","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6aab93ebc8ee0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you define reality?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4a8e617093d0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6261e2ab39aa0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: Reality is what I WANT to see."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6b77d8564c3b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"84780f731e53","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"cca84a1d54410","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Now back to the topic of how photography has changed over the course of your 40-year career."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"e1ffd9d81061","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"31d08b08aa7e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: Studying Vilem Flusser, I learned that photography produces technical images. Vilem Flusser says that photographers are functionaries of their cameras. With the arrival of the iPhone, cameras didn’t need functionaries anymore. I guess this was when I stopped using cameras. For about 10 years, I showed just the hexadecimal code of my pictures as black and white text images. Only in 2019, when I discovered the Blockchain, did I tend to take snapshots of reality again. This reality–Timothy Morton called it hyperobject–was something new to my world. It made me expand my camera–Flusser calls it an apparatus–into a virtual machine, aka an orchestra of algorithms.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1ec3b9c39bc8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"181ecb0a3b410","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"My work cycle COLORHUE STATE produces snapshots, or data constellations, produced by the Ethereum blockchain. Fun fact: "},{"_key":"181ecb0a3b411","_type":"span","marks":["1a85dd1bbdd6"],"text":"www.colorhuesate.xyz"},{"_key":"181ecb0a3b412","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" produces \"portraits\" of data or color constellations. Some of them look better than others. So I can still say that you look great."}],"markDefs":[{"_key":"1a85dd1bbdd6","_type":"link","href":"http://www.colorhuesate.xyz/"}],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"22740bd2be4b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a20ffe099f800","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"According to the phrase from Vilém Flusser from 1981 \"The gesture of photographing is the most primitive programming and coding gesture”, I still do photography, I just updated the programming and coding gestures to contemporary technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"750bccc042db","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, BLACK SQUARE, 2014.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd4f075e74a3f69d479c701c2f17c740ed626e07-1463x2000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-bd4f075e74a3f69d479c701c2f17c740ed626e07-1463x2000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"cc20b48144c7","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"89f0b366e3c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6cd49761fdaf0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When did you consider yourself an artist?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"fea8dbe373ca","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"94f3eb3d0ffc0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: In the year 2000, when the gallerist Jérôme de Noirmont asked me to do a show in his gallery in Paris. The gallery was opened by Jérôme and Emmanuelle de Noirmont on October 6, 1994, and aimed at offering people a chance to discover world-renowned artists whose work was then either totally or partially unrecognized in France. Jerome de Noirmont at the time represented Jeff Koons, Bernard Venet, Shirin Neshat, Bettina Reihms, George Condo, and A.R. Penk."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"483e7e745a76","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, ÜBERBABES, 2002.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-dd3ad5e7dba449da062266311b30e35181871ba4-1015x1400-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-dd3ad5e7dba449da062266311b30e35181871ba4-1015x1400-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"8bf791472969","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0bccfe788a70","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3d25cb35a3c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: ÜBERBABES was your first solo exhibition at Galerie Jérôme de Noirmont in Paris in 2002. I’ve read that you considered them transgender proto-avatars. What does this mean? If I am informed correctly, Jeff Koons was at the opening."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"39d5c84bb6dc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f3630a74b0ed0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: In 2000, some of my themes were about bodies and identities. I no longer saw reality in bodies. Genetics, cloning, and plastic surgery allowed each person to reappropriate and reconfigure their own bodies. Back then, I blurred emerging questions about identity as well as transgender identity by using Photoshop to visually sample all differences (sexual, ethnic, and physical). ÜBERBABES is fiction that looks like photography. These portraits are the result of resampling hundreds of portraits I took in my studio in Paris during castings for my commissioned work.\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e7853f2634c6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9b8f9f2610130","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Jeff Koons did not come for the opening; he came for a private view with the gallerist, Jérôme. When Jeff was asked to sign the golden book, he wrote \"Nice Gallery, Jeff Koons\". I guess he didn’t get my thing with Photoshop back then."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f25afda781b4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"dd62bd6edbc2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5ecc44cc826a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What was your thing with Photoshop?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5e3430695ba7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"616a0296257e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: For me, Photoshop was just another technical extension of my camera to depict my reality. This reality existed only in my head. With Photoshop, I was able to make my reality look like a real photograph. Mixing pixels on screen like DJs mix music. Taking parts of images and resampling them into new ones."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"309c3501dc61","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad8d41750c150","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the 20th century, photography was considered the undisputed medium of reality. Since Photoshop, photography has lost its claim to truth. In the 21st century, codes and data take over this sovereignty of truth. This is another reason why I started to depict my digital images as code."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"5e6fc5fc7e59","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, CASSIUS, 2002.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9037953ed68065dae358d8352299c8f755575dfb-2000x1311-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9037953ed68065dae358d8352299c8f755575dfb-2000x1311-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"44dddc25ef3a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"2e33bdbc8edd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"918ea2adc0120","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: As a fashion photographer working for brands such as Givenchy and adidas and for magazines, I assume you are aware that technology is something you have to keep on your radar. You were early in creating entirely computer-generated faces."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"da84896c7527","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5798c8e304c70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: Apple Macs were never computers for me. Macs and Photoshop have been just a new toy to replace the photo laboratory. Building these faces required all \"handcrafted\" Photoshop files with 30 or more layers."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"8fd26f2a3752","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"31fcf7cbca0e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At the time, my work was influenced a lot by dance music and DJs with a \"French touch\". In some way a DJ mixes music, I mix the pixels that make up every digital image. The band Cassius, from the orbit of Daft Punk, also wanted to remain anonymous as Daft Punk. For a portrait of the duo for Jalouse magazine in Paris, I sampled their faces so that they were unrecognizable for the public but recognisable for people from the music world. House music in France is called \"french touch\", I guess because clubs in Paris have never played Punk or NewWave. They went from Disco directly to \"french touch\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"80042bd4c870","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6d72d67b52dd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"005cc05a32020","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You were also early in finding a way to make your digital artworks available for collectors to purchase. What was your solution for what you called iGALLERY?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a2d4b07a2529","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5e3f1f88954c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: If you buy digital artwork, why print it, hang it on a wall, and watch it fade in slow motion like flowers? The basic idea was that digitally produced artworks should stay digital. It’s exhibited, sold, collected, and stored all digitally. Since we could not sell a link to a website, like with NFTs today, I developed a physical item, a credit card-sized \"access card\" with a login and access code."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"2fc031b2f163","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7bb3a6b4cfde","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6d89c1211c080","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And how did collectors respond? "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"19d3c05aa643","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"abca482d048e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: The press loved it, but collectors were reserved. Unfortunately, it was only printed, which did not make it to the web today. The physical pieces really sold well. A collector from New York bought four pieces for his bathroom because the aluminum on which they were printed did not rust."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"b5ecaaa3723d","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, IMAGE MACHINE (still), 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-49db3fde9edf0e43f139feb6665c20fca82300c5-1400x1400-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-49db3fde9edf0e43f139feb6665c20fca82300c5-1400x1400-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"e24fc6f0483e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6b51adb39e9e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"452183d632830","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How do you see yourself today? Your practice is not constrained to one medium or to fine art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4370f16c74d3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"33b12b66dbbf0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: I am always curious about any medium that can publish, sell, and archive my visuals."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"22f1843eacb2","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"9a8c2f9855de","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d5696def51c30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: From fashion photography to working with hex codes, that has been quite an evolution when it comes to your thoughts about images. What fascinates you about hex codes?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"5776c01b8b87","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5781fb14a3940","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: Fashion is kind of boring. It took me many years to understand Jean Baudrillard."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"495bdbab083d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7ed1d523aea20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\"Fashion is always retro, but based on the abolition of the past: spectral death and resurrection of forms. It has its own topicality, which is not a reference to the present but a total and immediate recycling. Fashion is paradoxically outdated.”"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"fde01d1c9d77","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"09cd5d9c98520","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Code is contemporary text. The representation as code is another manifestation of reality. A new layer is added to the relationship between an object, its description, and its representation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a5563d61e5d0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"efecac828cbd0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Also, being a confessed dyslexic, I am pleased to produce text images by the copy-and-paste gesture. It's maybe the artist's gesture of the 21st century. Kenneth Goldsmith called this \"uncreative writing\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1239ff79987c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"43940b1e61f70","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f9354195f931","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, COLORHUE STATE, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c981804ccfb3c83ce48a5127aa41f8871be6467d-1318x1252-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-c981804ccfb3c83ce48a5127aa41f8871be6467d-1318x1252-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"7541e7cd62db","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"eca7be488158","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"95c37041c67b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And hex codes brought you to the blockchain? Is that your new paint and brush?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4ccd42ee2426","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d73605cf11330","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: Yes, as a matter of fact, each hash of a blockchain consists of the 16 characters of the hex code. Each hash consists of 64 digits. A hex color consists of six digits. So in one hash of a block, there is information for ten different colors (10x6 = 60), and the rest of the four are deleted."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1cc66fc4c5a6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a3afeed5bb9c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"No. Paint and brushes, the same as combustion engines, are 20th-century tech.\n\n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"bc331bded214","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, LACTULOSE, POEMS FOR DAMIAN HIRST, 2019.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-37de513dabd7ea29f6482a9ed9ace9681012b55e-2264x2000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-37de513dabd7ea29f6482a9ed9ace9681012b55e-2264x2000-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"edcc9589d890","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"4aed3e688e47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"24e33b0f47c50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Your series POEMS FOR DAMIEN HIRST are concrete poetry and at the same time, poetry on the blockchain. Why did you decide to translate Damien Hirst’s famous SPOT PAINTINGS into concrete poetry?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0f1337f60e5a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9d24ef3370670","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: POEMS FOR DAMIEN HIRST is a collection of poems about color, truth, and poetry. In my research on the truth in color, I depicted color fields in hex code. Only Eugen Gominger, the father of concrete poetry, saw in these text-based artworks a certain poetry. Concrete poetry means, in short, that the visual is more important than the content. A six-character string, depicted as a circle, can be read clockwise, anticlockwise, and upside down, exactly like a color spot."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"11fd5b4edc12","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"cbfffdefc0b9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9bb33361e93c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: You look everywhere for inspiration and seem to translate the world around you into an artwork. What does your creative process look like? You, for example, turned a photograph of the sky over Berlin into a hex code painting. You do not limit yourself to one category, such as portrait or landscape."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"c2664a4b9b7d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a4524fd89b210","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: I never look for inspiration. I am haunted by inspiration. What you call a creative process, is a vehicle for me to get rid of the visual impacts that bombard me everywhere. Once an impact is translated onto my reality grid and saved in a folder on my server, I can relax."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"21fa3fba361b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f28887c6bc400","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I guess being dyslexic is part of this process. The family name of my ancestors was Israel. Thinking about reality and the real, one day Isreal popped up. It became a bold print on T-shirts."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5a2ce6696494","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"67de6011ee5d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The image of the Berlin sky, called HIMMEL from 2014 came back into my mind when reading the name of Skye Nicolas. Around 2014, I depicted my digital photographs as hex codes. I was exploring different typefaces and their relationships with each other in a two-dimensional space. Once, the constellations of the letters were similar to the gray Berlin sky."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bc6f55093cb4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9b911961c3a80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"And yes, I cannot limit myself."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"a22e7344bf80","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"65f235a743d30","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"992a9d297aa2","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, HIMMEL, Berlin, 2014.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-83f657efb563f65ddec22df82a3e05fa3794f73b-808x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-83f657efb563f65ddec22df82a3e05fa3794f73b-808x1200-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"5edb194dc786","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"c60535685333","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3003a756a35e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Whenever we speak, you say, Oh, I need to show you this; I will come back. What are the three artworks of yours you think everyone should know?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"90c37e63f6e1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"45fe2f4a780e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"JO: UBERBABES, POEMS FOR DAMIEN HIRST, and COLORHUE STATE."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d378f52f1e55","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"787372fcaf400","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"These works show most clearly the three phases of the development of my work in the post-photographic period. Digital images that look like photos but only show my reality. The text works, which show the code of the digital images, were then created in the search for the real truth. Finally, when I studied the basics of blockchain, I realized that they are made up of the same building blocks as my code images. Nothing was easier than making colors out of code again. I don't see the color images as abstractions but as concrete representations of the given data."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ee5a33520838","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b17fca8fb995","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"16ba1e08ebbc0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you, dear Jurgen!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"87faf0d61f55","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Jurgen Ostarhild, DANCE FLOOR UP, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-42d508a02f4a791be20270849db61962dafe6de1-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-42d508a02f4a791be20270849db61962dafe6de1-1000x1000-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"498b7eef1e79","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"32464ded2581","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"67d9da64-2bf6-47a9-a202-6cf31a6b376b","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"fc16fff449b2","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"301ce949053e","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyProduct-8275608076554","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"6e690db90e3d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-501132001546","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"db5a96fe89ec","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-501906342154","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"fe5b7e02b5dc","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"a9b37c66c588","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a508f071-8a11-421b-8d71-529f74906486","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"b2ecea14968c","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"a7438850-749c-4a96-a9ea-943eff8c0466","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"2294c7be565d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"39cc5f95-2fd2-4af6-97ee-cf0bf3903100","_type":"reference"}},{"_key":"0de08b912322","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2023-07-25T18:30:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Photographer Jurgen Ostarhild’s 40-year career boasts an impressive resume of noteworthy gallery shows and portraits of cultural figures, fashion brands, and celebrities. 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Together with Ana Maria Caballero and Sasha Stiles, she empowers writers creatively and financially, celebrates the rise of crypto-native poetry, and onboards acclaimed writers to Web3. As an artist and poet, she explores the intersection of art and language on the blockchain. Her work takes blockchain technology and crypto culture as its point of departure and focuses on playfulness, exploration, and experimentation to push the boundaries of the NFT medium and of conceptual writing and art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6fd720616789","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a558ab1bdbc10","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In conversation with Anika Meier, Iwamoto discusses writing and poetry, blockchain and AI, and the dialogue between art and language."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d36515114176","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"436e2e0ff24d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"869396937b590","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: You are a conceptual writer and artist exploring the intersection of art and language on the blockchain. When did you know you wanted to be a writer?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"602af9dae7dd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1886d838bd900","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Kalen Iwamoto: I've been enthralled by words from the moment I began reading. As a child, I would spend countless hours with my nose in a book, and in later years, I would linger over beautiful sentences and try to dissect the mechanics of their beauty."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"306308deeeff","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"da2c829890d60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"But it wasn't until much later that I started exploring what kind of writer I wanted to be—not in the sense of genre, as in novelist, poet, or short story writer, but in my approach to language. Growing up between two tongues and two cultures, I had a knotty, ambivalent relationship with language; words were not as self-evident or transparent to me as they were to my monolingual cohorts. I feel more at home on the periphery of language, and when I leaned into that later as an adult, I began learning what kind of writer I wanted to be, and that turned out to be something along the lines of conceptual, minimalist, experimental artist-writer. And here, as elsewhere, my identity lives in that hyphen: I don't fully identify as one or the other, but as the movement and dialogue between the two."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"f514cdb9a3a7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Kalen Iwamoto, C0ded from the Coining Poetry series, Image, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-17dc45566d613bc75cfbdd606c04ea69995bbc21-2000x1509-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-17dc45566d613bc75cfbdd606c04ea69995bbc21-2000x1509-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"3f1394759ecb","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"72131b5163a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"80cdd363c3740","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: How did you learn about blockchain and NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"8d9156fca0a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c6119ef311170","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: I first learned about the blockchain through my husband, Julien Silvano, who discovered Dogecoin in 2013. He sold all his assets long before Elon Musk's endorsement, but he was really taken with the fun, generous spirit of the Dogecoin community. Unfortunately, even though we knew the blockchain technology was important, the financial and trading aspects didn't sustain our interest for very long, and there was a long hiatus until 2020, when we discovered NFTs and the art side of things. Julien is also an artist, so we were really excited to jump back in."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"0107c9621b58","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"062e9c90c609","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"868db044bcda0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What did you find out when exploring the intersection of art and language?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"74cbf9befdbb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"aa943c3b69510","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: I've always worked very closely with Julien, whom I like to refer to as my partner in art and in life, and we've started what we call an art and language atelier called Wen New. The name is obviously a nod to crypto language and culture, but it's also a tongue-in-cheek reference to the rich history of art and language—not just text-based art but conceptual art and movements like Dada, Surrealism, Fluxus, and groups like Art & Language. On the literary side, there is visual and concrete poetry, Conceptualism, Oulipo, lettrism, situationists, poems like e.e. cumming's \"l(a\", Aram Saroyan's \"lighght\", bpNichol's \"First screening\", just to name a few. How new, really, is anything under the sun?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b78690792e6a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"806f8c7d14bb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There are infinite ways to give form to this dialogue between art and language, so I'll just cite a few examples of the directions our explorations have taken. We've been considering the mediums and technologies we use and the concomitant changes in the way we create, write, read, and understand. Recently, we've been inspired by the way the French movement Support/Surface questioned the space of art, bringing in frames, stretchbars, and what were considered accessories and tools for the creation and presentation of art into the art itself. To translate these questions into the textual field, how might we question the literary frame? How could we bring the page, the book, and the screen into the literary artwork? How could we incorporate the frames and tools of reading and writing, and how might that raise questions about the writing and reading conventions or practises that each enables or encourages?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d6d0c37eeb10","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Kalen Iwamoto & Julien Silvano, Livre-écran, Sculpture, 2022.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d91c22c19049eed46db680c4d957e516687d08be-3318x1908-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-d91c22c19049eed46db680c4d957e516687d08be-3318x1908-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"f14e7316da83","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"ef5b4b01fd6c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"900b879c50670","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: You are one of the co-founders of theVERSEverse, a literary gallery where poems are works of art. Has your perception of poetry changed through blockchain and the possibilities of making poetry easily accessible for everyone?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"00418c4ccb46","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"390d246525e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: It's true that people in the Web3 sphere seem more receptive to poetry since they've encountered poetry NFTs. Whereas it was once experienced as this mystifying, hermetic high literary genre, they now feel like it's more approachable, and I think that's a wonderful thing. The poetry world has actually been hermetic, and barring a few isolated, niche genres and movements, it's remained mostly untouched by the technological revolution that has upended most other art forms. NFTs present us with a unique opportunity to play catch-up, to experiment with the blockchain and technology, and to take to heart the rapid, seismic changes we as a society are undergoing and be clear-eyed about how they affect literature, writing, publishing, reading, and every other aspect of our textual lives."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3c01afca884","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f8739cd2474c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Personally, the blockchain has opened up new possibilities for poetry; it's a new playground where we can conceptually engage with the mechanisms, the protocols, the technology, the culture, and the language of NFTs and the blockchain."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"44875ac7e65e","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"415c11498ea9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"63664c7317d90","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: theVERSEverse explicitly states that poems are a work of art based on a quote from Ana María Caballero, an influential voice and poet in Web3. What distinguishes poems from other forms of text published as NFTs?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a6115b257c8d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"987ceb0b9d0c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: For a long time, I resisted the label \"poet\". Then, Christian Bök, a brilliant poet I deeply admire and respect, offered me a definition that I could finally identify with. He told me a poet is someone with a particular attitude towards language. Someone who sees words as more than a means of communication; someone who pays attention to the way words sound, look, and feel. Someone who uses language otherwise. I think this attitude is what differentiates poetry from other forms of writing, both on and off the blockchain."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3b2880fef5b7","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Kalen Iwamoto & Vitalii Shumanskyi & Nayven Vignette & Tamas Beke, Hydro Gen, Generative Art, 2022. ","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e4abda61b3031361e67f8c57da564985d4a30d4b-727x727-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-e4abda61b3031361e67f8c57da564985d4a30d4b-727x727-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"8142851bf45a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"480555cd8980","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e70c70f6bc7b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Is it a difference for you whether you write a poem to be released as an NFT or in a book? Is your approach to concepts, storytelling, and communicating about them different?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f82617167028","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a47dddfe49270","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: Yes, the medium is an important and integral part of the work. Although some of my pieces could be published traditionally without losing their conceptual integrity, others wouldn't make much sense outside of their native ecosystem. For example, one of my earlier NFTs, 12, is a poem that contains twelve words of a seed phrase. Upon purchasing the NFT, the collector received clues to find the twelve words within the poem, and the first collector to crack the seedphrase took the NFTs inside the wallet. More recently, for laCollection's Art and Currency exhibition, I created a poetry mini-series called Coining Poetry. I wrote a poem with seven Ethereum vanity addresses, and to each of the addresses, I sent 1000 $Poetry coins, ERC-20 tokens I created specially for the series. The collector receives the NFT as well as the private key to their vanity address. Each word of the poem literally contains currency of an as yet undetermined value, raising questions about not only the value of poetry but the relationship between art, poetry, and currency in the crypto art world. I think transplanting poems like these into a book takes them out of the context that gives their concept meaning and removes the elements of play, action, and transaction."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"22bd68bc580c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9ef4ee43c9710","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"I've also been thinking of the different publication mediums as sites for exploring divergent reading practices and putting forward speculative or emergent ones. I recently wrote a play called ROMEO AND JULIAPE, an AI-human love story co-written with AI, and I wanted the reading of the play to mirror its writing in some way, so I minted each line as an NFT and published the play in its entirety as a physical book, which collectors of the NFT receive for free. The book represents the linear, progressive reading experience we're all familiar with. The NFTs, on the other hand, shatter the play into its smaller units, offering a contrasting reading experience that is nonlinear, haphazard, fragmentary, and nodal."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"d12b09dcf6c1","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"8943034e30a7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"37c079c45ba50","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Some writers do not enjoy the process of writing. I might be one of them. Well, it depends. (laughs) How is that for you? What does your creative process look like? I, for example, only sit down and start writing once I have a very clear idea in my mind about the text. Otherwise, I’d sit in front of my blank screens for days."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"7d4f8edb5319","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8666d190037d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: I'm the same way—I usually don't start writing until I have a clear concept. There are many paths to a final concept, but more often than not, for me, it begins with a conversation with my partner, Julien. We'll brainstorm and tease out themes, building on each other's ideas. The concept is the creative bit, while the execution, or the writing itself, simply follows from the concept and is, in the words of Sol LeWitt, a \"perfunctory affair\"."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"1f251a407f19","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Kalen Iwamoto, Hashtagraphy, Video, 2021.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-54a8d670a1f8fbc31171da183b9dbb6013f224ce-2710x1392-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-54a8d670a1f8fbc31171da183b9dbb6013f224ce-2710x1392-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"085de37b0dea","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"f15a3ccfedb2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"219015dff9580","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When I am writing a text in my mind, I go on long walks. And also, when I write, I tend to walk around my place a lot. When does inspiration most likely hit you?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"b6344ad48745","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"133291a100430","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: There's energy and movement in ideas and writing, so I think it makes sense that you feel the impulse to walk as you flesh out ideas. I also feel restless when ideas are roiling."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1ff92a422c97","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f897826c7e90","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In my experience, deadlines are also very effective for conjuring the muse. Otherwise, inspiration generally hits after a period of intense research or deep reflection, and it usually comes in the course of my conversations with Julien. Sometimes, we have a fully formed idea before producing the work; other times, we'll play with visual forms, and that might spark an idea. There are also certain themes, like absence or presence, the design of imperfection, etc., that I might be preoccupied with and that want to be expressed in a specific form, in which case I'll spontaneously follow that."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"777b9800a8ad","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"50b7d81cc706","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4fd5e9b612ff0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How important is it for you to be able to perform a poem live? Does a poem demand the presence of the voice, or even the presence of the author?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"ee9994b575d4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"443f47609d5d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: To be honest, I wouldn't even know how to read some of my poems. How does one read a poem whose line emerges at the meeting point of two sets of words, like \"Littor[alter]ms\", the prequel poem to ROMEO AND JULIAPE? Or how might one perform a visual poem? And if the concept can't be conveyed through a traditional reading, doesn't the \"meaning\" of the poem get lost? In fact, conceptual writing does away with even the metaphorical voice of the writer. The writing I practice is not an expression of my deepest thoughts and feelings; it's something else—the output of an algorithmic engagement with language, the result of following a set of procedures, rules, or constraints, a typographical arrangement that plays with the materiality of letters, a collage of a pre-existing text, or any number of things—but it's usually not an expression of my subjectivity. And even if something of my subjectivity does get expressed, the meaning of the work still lies elsewhere."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"27b8d507781b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Kalen Iwamoto & Julien Silvano, Romeo & Juliape, A prequel poem, Poem sculpture, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-69ff5c5208fb19c17ad18f0a4e5c88c8ec5cc01f-2000x1127-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-69ff5c5208fb19c17ad18f0a4e5c88c8ec5cc01f-2000x1127-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"f29b6ed17a5b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"912e27bf83a1","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0c6069fa14120","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: AI is one of your co-writers. How do you collaborate with AI?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"006c9ce70a28","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a132d53edc8f0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: For ROMEO AND JULIAPE, the play I mentioned earlier, I wrote the lines for the human character while AI wrote the lines for the AI character, and the play is a dialogue that was issued from a prompt about an AI and human that fall in love. I curated it but didn't edit any of its lines, as I wanted to let it speak for itself, see how far it could go, and reveal its limits and imperfections."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6312fe267d0c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2d56cad0e1610","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"How genuine does it feel? Can it make readers believe in its sentiency? I wanted the play to be moving, but uncanny in its poignancy. But at heart, the play is less a commentary on AI than it is an unveiling of us, humans, and our ambivalence towards AI."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"50a3d55e095b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1ec42ad05ffa","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2ed456fee0e60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What has the feedback been so far on your AI collaborations? Do you have the feeling that you have to fight for acceptance once more?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a93f0fdee0e8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ebe1bf6a61e20","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: The feedback has generally been positive. But then again, the project didn't get a great deal of attention. If it did, I'm sure the reception would have been more mixed."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"fd0e8212b13e","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Kalen Iwamoto, Every No, Image, 2023.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-636ecd83e2c9f69d6822922d478f2fc35201a365-2500x2500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-636ecd83e2c9f69d6822922d478f2fc35201a365-2500x2500-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"58bef6e1ea7b","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6827684b039b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38b96fdb35310","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What are your thoughts about nature in the age of the metaverse?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a71593a5a60a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"035c0e56c9b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: I live in the countryside and am in close, daily contact with nature, so at the most mundane level, I personally experience nature as a countervailing force to my highly digital life."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"671351818359","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6597884ae1570","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"At a more theoretical level, the first thing that comes to mind is how nature, historically, has acted as the Other to the human Self, and today, with the anxiety-ridden discourse around AI, how machines and technology are overwhelmingly bearing that label. And because it's hard to fathom any sort of relationship between nature and the metaverse that's unmediated by humans in some way, my main question becomes: how do we move from a relationship of control to one of collaboration in our encounter with the Other?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"78ae17f709c8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"792e2d316f84","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"569a5d31689c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: If you could give your younger self, the struggling writer, some advice, what would that be?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0ad08eb25728","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5a0d6833d72e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"KI: Their periphery is your centre. Lean into your weirdness. 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Her work takes blockchain technology and crypto culture as its point of departure and focuses on playfulness, exploration, and experimentation to push the boundaries of the NFT medium and of conceptual writing and art.\n\nIn conversation with Anika Meier, Iwamoto discusses writing and poetry, blockchain and AI, and the dialogue between art and language.","slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"kalen-iwamoto-bringing-the-page-into-the-literary-artwork"},"store":null,"subtitle":"AI AND POETRY ON THE BLOCKCHAIN","teaserImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-77c52a911070371e9a2540a996a29628783837c7-1920x1080-png","_type":"reference"}},"title":"KALEN IWAMOTO: BRINGING THE PAGE INTO THE LITERARY ARTWORK"},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"4b2314dd6686","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2024-11-18T20:27:48Z","_id":"f3e23fa5-eab6-49a8-8961-b41369137a59","_rev":"MNuBnnm1jYUfTxrlpZdTml","_type":"article","_updatedAt":"2024-11-28T16:35:43Z","author":"Anika Meier","category":"conversations","heroImage":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-8211450e301cf6c96e2e700f239fc72dd60c9397-2048x2048-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"modules":[{"_key":"18ea2166de5a","_type":"moduleText","text":[{"_key":"4991f1982afc","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"bfe14dc601f60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Monika Fleischmann and Wolfgang Strauss are Berlin-based digital art pioneers. Since the mid-1980s, they have been working at the intersection of art and technology, ranging from virtual reality and interactive environments to generative art, consistently exploring code and computers as artistic media. The artist duo broke new ground by forming interdisciplinary teams in technical and scientific environments. They approached emerging technologies as tools and sources of artistic inspiration and cultural transformation. Their pivotal role in the history of digital art was cemented in 1987 when they co-founded ART+COM, Germany's first research institute for digital media, art, and architecture."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"60fef74e65e0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b8ce2bb96b70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Their work has been exhibited at major institutions, including the Tate Modern, Centre Pompidou, Pratt Manhattan Gallery, ICC Tokyo, ZKM Karlsruhe, and Haus der Kunst Munich. They have received prestigious awards for their contributions to computational art, including the Golden Nica for Interactive Art (1992) and the SIGGRAPH Distinguished Artist Award for Lifetime Achievement in Digital Art (2018). Through their advisory roles in art and science, they continue to shape the evolution of art and technology research."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"dd0147e828b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e31890e91dac0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"On the occasion of the exhibition REIMAGINE TOMORROW, 1954-2024, Anika Meier spoke with Fleischmann and Strauss about their artistic beginnings in 1980s West Berlin, the role of NFTs as archives for digital art, and their interdisciplinary perspective on art in an increasingly technologized world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"7215b40c254c","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Echo of Code, Generative Transformation, 1988. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4d5638a318c743b1cd67624929098db0c701bcf6-1024x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4d5638a318c743b1cd67624929098db0c701bcf6-1024x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"d669e9f22d46","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"63187702056a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"690a68bc1a920","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Anika Meier: Monika and Wolfgang, you have been working together as artists since 1987. How did you actually meet?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"4194938274b6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"62e5f14bca040","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Monika Fleischmann:"},{"_key":"62e5f14bca041","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" We first crossed paths in the vibrant art scene of West Berlin in the late 1970s. The city's unique isolation fostered an intense creative atmosphere. Our initial connection began during Robert Kudielka's art history lectures at the University of the Arts, which deepened through our walks in the Tiergarten and meetings at iconic Berlin spots like the Paris Bar and the Dschungel. This creative exchange ultimately led us to open our first studio together."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9bdc8322a4bf","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"9463ae68d5040","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"Wolfgang Strauss:"},{"_key":"9463ae68d5041","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" These shared intellectual spaces were vital to our connection. Our conversations evolved from art theory to creative experimentation, inspiring us to imagine collaborative projects ranging from immersive learning spaces to interactive urban installations. In 1987, we founded ArtWork, our art and architecture studio, and later co-founded ART+COM, the first independent research institute for art, interface design, and digital technology."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3c5bc5d8c81b","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Hewlett Packard Office, Generative Transformation, 1988. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f550af0b7b7fbdaad3122a1761d545e2749a9b1d-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f550af0b7b7fbdaad3122a1761d545e2749a9b1d-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"619177ca89be","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Data Glove, 1988. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4cb36e6a39556056b1e33454499590ee74cd2a88-570x570-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4cb36e6a39556056b1e33454499590ee74cd2a88-570x570-png","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"87f7f64dee18","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d26df72ca774","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"202309c925090","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: And how did your collaboration come about?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0b77f4b95b47","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d41d36179bc70","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"d41d36179bc71","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Our artistic collaboration began in 1984 when Wolfgang brought home an Atari computer, which led me to experiment with digital media. By 1986, I was studying computer graphics. In 1987, we joined forces with other creatives around urban planning professor Edouard Bannwart to found ART+COM alongside our studio, ArtWork. Our institute near Zoo Station became a hub where hackers, architects, and artists came together to explore the digital frontier. We worked on projects simultaneously. While the design of the Hewlett-Packard headquarters in Berlin was a real-world design project, we used the Pool Office database to explore generative design concepts. This exploration led to works like BETWEEN ZERO AND ONE and later GENETIC BLUEPRINT, where generative transformations bring genetically modified designs to life. We understood this as systemic interactivity and felt that the computer became a dialogue partner, talking to us."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bb920e1a219e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"75a4df7e4ad80","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"75a4df7e4ad81","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" ART+COM's interdisciplinary approach attracted major research grants for long-term projects such as New Media in Urbanism and Simulation of Comfort in Virtual Space. These funded research projects enabled us to create large-scale interactive art like BERLIN-CYBER CITY and HOME OF THE BRAIN. In the VR installation HOME OF THE BRAIN, visitors metaphorically encounter four pioneers of AI and the digital future. The visitors' movements echo the contrasting voices of the thinkers. Another special milestone for ART+COM was the development of TERRAVISION, a breakthrough in digital mapping that later inspired Google Earth and was featured in the Netflix film THE BILLION DOLLAR CODE. This follow-up project to the mapping beginnings of BERLIN-CYBER CITY was developed with the financial support and scientific vision of Deutsche Telekom's research department BERKOM, headed by Jürgen Kanzow."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"3eadae5becae","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Home of the Brain – Philosophers‘ Houses, VR Installation, 1990. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7ffe4faada0eacccc874795db6ec825d3a5513a5-1024x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-7ffe4faada0eacccc874795db6ec825d3a5513a5-1024x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"17943542da16","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"49d5f7d79a65","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56269652d9510","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Did you see yourselves as artists from the very beginning? I assume you didn't expect that what you were part of would end up at the Tate Modern in London when you started. LIQUID VIEWS is currently on view as part of the exhibition ELECTRIC DREAMS."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"0740faaef88a","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"5621b5a3b98a0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"5621b5a3b98a1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" In the Geniale Dilettanten (Ingenious Dilettantes) movement of 1970s and 80s West Berlin, we embraced a multifaceted artistic practice that transcended traditional boundaries. As thinkers, designers, builders, and organizers, we saw art as integral to all aspects of life. This holistic worldview manifested in our pioneering explorations of emerging technologies. We started from scratch with some of the most experimental interfaces of the time—head-mounted displays and data gloves. Through an exchange with Jaron Lanier's company VPL, ART+COM acquired these utopian interfaces, driving projects like BERLIN-CYBER CITY and HOME OF THE BRAIN."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7bb6449106e9","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"39dcc41473b60","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This cutting-edge VR technology, however, also revealed the need for a diverse team with IT skills to realize the technology's potential. In subsequent work, we moved toward more intangible and intuitive interfaces. We experimented with camera tracking in MURMURING FIELDS, electro-field sensing in MARS BAGS, and touchless interaction in POINTSCREEN. Later, we used neural networks to create graphical, spatial, and temporal interfaces such as SEMANTIC MAP, ENERGY PASSAGES, and MEDIA FLOW. Interfaces are key to unlocking content and meaning in interactive artworks. We consciously subverted the principle of \"What you see is what you get\" (WYSIWYG) that dominated early computer interfaces. Instead, we adopted the mantra, \"What you get is what you did not see before.\""}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"468d3d2dd5a5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0bcca482e3fe0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Our performative interfaces are designed to inspire participants to uncover hidden relationships and meanings through active exploration. This evocative, trace-reading quality of the interfaces is essential to our vision of \"Media Art as a Thinking Space for Digitality\"—a concept we outlined in our manifesto. Ultimately, we understand immersion not as a passive visual stimulus but as active, mental engagement. Our interfaces are intended to facilitate the flow of mental activity, encouraging participants to become co-creators in the unfolding of digital artworks. This approach exemplifies our holistic, interdisciplinary perspective on the role of art in an increasingly technologized world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0f458d87d0a7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"3ae414765e9e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"3ae414765e9e1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" For me, art is looking at the world with childlike wonder and transforming that wonder into creation. We strive to create virtual worlds, like fairy tales, where we can rehearse for reality and exist in a state of \"as if\"—as if we were dreaming, touching water, or flying, using only our bodies. We create an (electronic) aura that allows us to exist in a new reality, a mixed reality. This concept refers to the performative interface, where technology becomes unnoticed and natural interaction takes center stage. Our performative interfaces use gesture, movement, and physical presence to create intuitive experiences, as seen in works such as LIQUID VIEWS, where viewers interact with their digital reflections, or MURMURING FIELDS, a walk-in sound archive where body movements generate visual and sonic responses. Our work with new digital interfaces—both tactile and non-tactile—such as virtual mirrors and interactive handbags, often grew out of play and experimentation. In our interdisciplinary teams, we have approached the development of algorithms collaboratively, with the artist acting much like a choreographer."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"38c798179888","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Liquid Views archive: Liquid People in Madrid (94) – Liquid People in Los Angeles (93), Interactive Installation, 1992. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9b0bc4735d1db7b521859a700d8dca842514c046-1024x512-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-9b0bc4735d1db7b521859a700d8dca842514c046-1024x512-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"77fe0637e89a","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"0c2251325994","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"f9397c642a320","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has the way artists connect and get to know each other in Berlin changed significantly in the post-digital age?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a2b209c940f5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a6ecfa0cee970","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"a6ecfa0cee971","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" While social media has changed the way artists connect globally from their studios, Berlin's in-person gatherings remain as important today as they were in the 1980s. Our story reflects this evolution: In the '80s, our ART+COM Salons became a physical hub where Berlin's digital pioneers and international visionaries, including Herbert W. Franke and David Rokeby, gathered to discuss the digital future."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"6dc89f34da8e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e87bdb1465c30","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"e87bdb1465c31","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The change started early—we communicated with pioneers remotely using platforms like The WELL in California and Internet Relay Channels (IRC). This hybrid approach of combining digital and physical connections culminated in our platform NETZSPANNUNG.ORG. The platform created digital archives for new media art while fostering community through initiatives like the DIGITAL SPARKS student competition, the MEDIA ART LEARNING channel, and TELE-LECTURES streaming. We complemented these digital connections with physical gatherings at the CAST01–LIVING IN MIXED REALITIES conference and media arts festivals. Perhaps the most significant change is represented by our SEMANTIC MAP, an AI visualization of the NETZSPANNUNG.ORG database, where individual works and artists appear as nodes in a network of ideas, themes, and practices. This reflects today's reality: artists connect not only in person or digitally but also through complex networks of shared concepts and collaborative practices."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"0a94483a4455","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8b61ad1afaec0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"8b61ad1afaec1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The small international community expanded globally through festivals like Imagina, SIGGRAPH, and Transmediale, where we met influential figures like Sherry Turkle, Rebecca Allen, Rupert Sheldrake, and Roy Ascott—connections that continue today. Conferences curated by visionaries like Peter Weibel and exhibitions by artists like Simon Penny, Rafael Lozano-Hemmer, and Christine Treguier united us across disciplines. European Union projects deepened our networks, enabling collaborations with partners like Jeffrey Shaw at ZKM Karlsruhe and Steve Benford at the Mixed Reality Lab. These gatherings laid the groundwork for our Mixed Reality (MR) installations, such as MURMURING FIELDS and I2TV–INTERACTIVE INTERNET TV (1999), a distributed poetry play based on Ernst Jandl’s OTTO'S MOPS. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7371e28c8368","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fefab2af846d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In the 1990s, we hosted influential events at GMD's Birlinghoven Castle, including MEMORIA FUTURA, CAST01, and the VISIONS OF VIRTUALITY exhibition. We launched NETZSPANNUNG.ORG to create a permanent space for media art in the face of evolving technology. Our TELE-LECTURES, in partnership with the Burda Academy, bridged physical and virtual space with speakers such as Wim Wenders and Barbara Stafford. This mixed reality approach became central to our practice, as demonstrated in projects like ENERGY PASSAGES."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"769a991addc3","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Semantic Map – A radar for the media art data cosmos, Neural network analysis and visualization, 2002. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-705f43a1585dd71c151a7622d45951b158327245-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-705f43a1585dd71c151a7622d45951b158327245-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"99933ea74246","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"1701bc42c1b7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b17233ec219c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Has the role of the artist changed due to social media? I have the impression that it has shifted significantly towards artists as entrepreneurs and that this involves a lot in terms of communication and marketing."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"33b2458ccd02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"43d8c7491c470","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"0cfbd3ce772b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Social media has become essential for visibility, especially for digital and interactive art. Early on, our work faced unique challenges—interactive installations required shelf-sized computers and expert maintenance, making them difficult to commercialize. Today, the hardware is affordable and portable, and the software does not need to be built from scratch."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c3abe837c8bd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"286db038fd130","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"However, while some of our major works like LIQUID VIEWS have been preserved through migration and emulation efforts, other important pieces, such as HOME OF THE BRAIN, still await funding and resources for reconstruction. Additionally, the series BETWEEN ZERO AND ONE (1988) is only now being exhibited after decades, illustrating the ongoing challenge of making our (and other) pioneering digital artworks accessible to contemporary audiences as the \"tools of visibility\" (the technological means of presentation) continue to evolve. Migration and emulation are critical strategies for preserving digital art, allowing pioneering works to be maintained and experienced over time despite changes in the underlying technologies. This process remains an ongoing challenge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b742b70c80c0","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"6aa852f158020","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"0fdf66e73823","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Our role as artists changed with the launch of netzspannung.org in 1999. We were inspired by Marvin Minsky's vision of books 'talking to each other,' which led us to develop a 'semantic landscape' for digital art curation. Through projects like THE VIRTUAL BOOK (2005), we explored new forms of creative publishing. Today's challenge is different: while social media offers unprecedented connectivity, tech giants see people as ‘users’ and consumers first. We're responding with a new initiative, THE BRAIN BOOK, that explores how AI might reshape artistic communication and community building."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"618e0ba1bfe5","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"7fe25452b67d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"d02d00ec2c5c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Do you feel that you should be more active on social media?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"f8188ea53afb","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0ec5787de58d0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"5c8175489e5a","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Increasing our social media presence would certainly help our visibility. We also see it as a way to make our artistic archive accessible to a younger generation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"955970ab8b1f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1f87dcb21eb00","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS: "},{"_key":"c2f397eb0366","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We're struggling to balance marketing with artistic integrity. While we need professional social media management, our priorities lie elsewhere: we are deeply involved in restoring our works from the 1990s and 2000s. Much of our material is stored in the ZKM depot. Our next major challenge will be finding the right team and location for this restoration work—and social media could help us build these connections."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"6030b0232252","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Rigid Waves, Mixed Reality Installation, 1993. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2710d811a2f660e236dab266ea13e47fc8dbbf4a-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2710d811a2f660e236dab266ea13e47fc8dbbf4a-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"88b3eb9c8aef","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"32bfdda1c793","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"38db31049d2b0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: When reading about you, the terms 'New Media' and 'Media Art' often come up. However, you started with computer art and computer graphics. How have these terms changed over the decades?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"488e30392af4","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a53c0804db620","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"9ac0ba1e894d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The evolution of these terms reflects our artistic path. At first, we saw the computer as a tool; then it became a medium in its own right. While Monika delved into complex graphic worlds, I focused on establishing a 3D modeling class for architecture and VR design at the Berlin University of the Arts. A pivotal moment was the discovery of the transformative nature of digital material."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"aa5ed0c3c9d5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"4d48e16b109d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Starting from the systemic interactivity of BETWEEN ZERO AND ONE, we focus our attention on the development of non-linear structures, i.e., building blocks of code that can be variably combined and programmed as audiovisual collages according to the participant’s activity, whether on-site or online. These are immersive environments because the viewer is constantly confronted with new experiences through performative action. "}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"407aa6e282f2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"41aac22fa0f3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The term 'New Media Art' arose from the need to distinguish these interactive works from traditional media art, which focused primarily on image and video. Today, the term encompasses a whole spectrum—from net art to bio art to NFTs and AI art. Each of these forms brings its own methodology, be it generative, interactive, or performative."},{"_key":"0437b802f8480","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"\n\nMF:"},{"_key":"32531a277a69","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The founding of ART+COM in 1987 was a turning point. We gained access to the latest graphics and server technology by lobbying the industry to donate equipment. Every week, a different representative from Sun, Hewlett-Packard, Siemens, or Silicon Graphics (SGI) visited us because they trusted us to do extraordinary work. I was the only one who could operate the Siemens WS30 with its excellent text program for Heidelberger Druckmaschinen—apart from our hackers, who, in the name of world peace, tried to access the hidden places of international secret services at night. At that time, almost no one in Germany had access to email or the Internet, and we were just beginning to grasp the dimensions of so-called cyberspace. After the fall of the Berlin Wall, we wanted to shape the coming digitization from an artistic perspective rather than leave it solely to IT. Through participatory and performative interfaces, we aimed to confront people with a (digital) future they could help shape."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"05395f72ce3b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"04263ac1ce6d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Later, when we founded MARS (Media Arts Research Studies) at the GMD—the National Research Center for Information Technology—our focus shifted even more toward artistic research and technical development, which we called \"art and science.\" In projects such as LIQUID VIEWS, the MARS BAG (a playful contact and security system), the RESPONSIVE WORKBENCH, and the POINTSCREEN for touchless interaction, we developed the concept of the \"performative interface.\" Heidegger's notion of \"unconcealment\" inspired us to make hidden connections visible and to encourage engagement with digital data. The LIQUID VIEWS interactive installation is based on a real-time wave algorithm. The POINTSCREEN contactless interface uses the U.S.-patented Ecco system with a proprietary microchip. The earlier MARS BAG technology adapts Theremin technology with a proprietary circuit that was distributed to the community. It was a mix of patenting and making knowledge public through open-source distribution, yielding amazing results. The RESPONSIVE WORKBENCH was provided as a demonstrator to BASF for molecular visualization and to Mercedes-Benz for virtual wind simulation of a car."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e481a64822da","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"151c38de2db50","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"So far, so bad. Even though we had good lawyers for the loan contracts, the effect was that they simply copied the system. New media art has always been a seismograph for technological developments, but it was not paid for. Today it is different because new media artists can be sponsored directly by companies like Gucci. However, this is not a question of art but of taste—the taste of the sponsor, i.e., its consumers. Perhaps we, as artists, have a completely different taste."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ea7648d0f929","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, PointScreen, Electro Field Sensor Circuit, Energy Meter, MARS Bag, Electro Field Sensing, 1996. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f3ab3e015687e4d65bb6c09449d3f47bbb1518bf-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-f3ab3e015687e4d65bb6c09449d3f47bbb1518bf-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"right"},{"_key":"ed0316246338","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"d8a1901cc707","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"01c4c62afeb40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: After all these years, do you feel that the conversation around digital art has changed regarding its significance as part of the history of art? You just mentioned Peter Weibel, who has suggested since the year 2000 that new media art be referred to simply as art. This sentiment is echoed today, with many suggesting that digital art should simply be called art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"1f22fdec9530","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"fc856f61756e0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WS: There's a growing acceptance of digital art in contemporary culture. More artists and curators are simply calling it \"art.\" Technologies like AI, virtual reality, and blockchain have helped drive this shift and solidify digital art as a dynamic force within the art world. However, some skepticism remains, especially around issues of value, preservation, and curation. I would like to share an experience with ENERGY PASSAGES (2004), our performative public installation outside the House of Literature in Munich. The sculptor Magdalena Jetelová categorized the installation as art with her enthusiastic words: \"Yes, Munich needs something like this and not the hundredth exhibition of the Blauer Reiter (Blue Rider).\" She equated it with the large public sculptures she used to create. This assessment was made by an established artist in 2004. Those who deny the artistic character of electronic art are usually art critics, curators, and museum professionals."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"9b0cceaaa9e6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1a914cc5966b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"MF: Throughout our careers, we have embraced new media art as a transformative thinking space. Our work has focused on creating environments where people can interact with data and understand its digital nature and implications. Through initiatives such as the ART+COM Institute, the MARS exploratory media lab, and the digital art platform NETZSPANNUNG.ORG, we have contributed to the discourse on digital art with interdisciplinary teams. Although we are less concerned with definitions such as \"art\" or \"digital art\" and more interested in the impact, we are confident that digital art will be recognized in the art historical canon, also through current exhibitions such as Reimagine Tomorrow or Electric Dreams."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1086eb96d514","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"7655583706cb0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"WS: Digital art is still a niche. Today's accessible tools have led to a flood of digital creations—like \"Sunday painting\"—that can overshadow more substantial work. ZKM recently approached us about reconstructing HOME OF THE BRAIN. It is unclear whether this will be possible for us (technically and financially), but I would like to see how today's audience would respond. With today's AI capabilities, we could realize aspects that we originally envisioned but couldn't technically achieve at the time."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e351d41c74a5","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Energy Passages, Semantic analysis of daily news, 2004. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss.","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4b60262fb19abb6191d8d298ceae62be1e33977a-1024x512-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-4b60262fb19abb6191d8d298ceae62be1e33977a-1024x512-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"center"},{"_key":"ad35422e5cc4","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"67ece61eba56","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b68fc0ace93c0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: What were your thoughts when you first heard about NFTs and the astronomical prices paid for digital art during the hype years?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"a0c1de68355b","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2824e0ef2b680","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"2824e0ef2b681","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The NFT phenomenon struck me as absurd at first. When I read about a Silicon Valley billionaire spending tens of thousands on an NFT of Nike sneakers that would never physically exist, I wondered: What's the point of owning something you can't even show off? It felt like a twisted version of \"less is more.\" However, NFTs could revolutionize ownership and transparency, changing the way we deal with digital archives. The focus should shift from ownership to authorship and distribution. Many digital media art archives struggle with attribution, including the SIGGRAPH Archive."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"bb4b3b104603","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8d5ed344932c0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"By combining media art AI with language models, we could create a more streamlined system for accessing NFT collections. This would help media artists become more discoverable without getting lost in countless individual archives. I'm particularly inspired by artists like Frank Stella, who uses NFTs differently—creating tokens for his large-scale sculptures that include 3D fabrication downloads."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c789e2266f30","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1dccb089643f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"1dccb089643f1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The initial NFT boom was astounding: astronomical sums were being spent on intangibles. However, beyond speculation, I'm intrigued by the experimental possibilities of NFTs. We're considering exploring this technology for our BETWEEN ZERO AND ONE series as the next step, which we envision as 3D sculptures."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"e23baf728d65","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"b4b29c38a60e","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"dbc5ee2c55ab0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: We’ve already mentioned the exhibition ELECTRIC DREAMS at the Tate, in which you are a part. RADICAL SOFTWARE just opened in Luxembourg and will travel to Vienna in 2025. ELECTRIC OP is currently on view at Buffalo AKG in the US and will travel to France in 2025. DIGITAL WITNESS just opened at LACMA in LA, and the V&A published a comprehensive book about the history of DIGITAL ART. Did you ever expect anything like this to happen?"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"34b6eb6f8952","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2c1e4b5b649f0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"2c1e4b5b649f1","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" This renewed interest in media art is encouraging. Peter Weibel and Siegfried Zielinski's 2018–2019 ZKM exhibition ART IN MOTION: 100 MASTERPIECES WITH AND THROUGH MEDIA was a landmark moment, tracing media art's evolution from photography and sound art to networked practices. While almost overwhelming in scope, ZKM's spaces provided the perfect context for newcomers to the field. Unfortunately, the planned catalog never materialized—a missed opportunity for documentation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c4b6d472ed92","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"17a02f8781e80","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Today's wave of survey shows reflects both social changes and generational interests. Young curators, often pursuing doctoral research, are reviving historical works within contemporary contexts like AI and VR, making them accessible to new audiences. Meanwhile, older artists are eager to establish their legacies before AI art dominates the conversation."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"07ba52cbee02","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8981578e52780","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"8981578e52781","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" The V&A's DIGITAL ART book is particularly significant in an era where digital information can vanish so quickly—often only retrievable through the wayback machine. Books provide a permanence and visual overview that digital formats can't match. However, these narratives often have blind spots. Take the RADICAL SOFTWARE exhibition, for instance: its political correctness paradoxically excludes some truly radical contributions, including Monika's work—likely overlooked because she's part of an artist duo."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"7053666e135d","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"56c902e7042a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"There’s another problem: a new book has just been published—ART OF THE 1980S: AS IF THE DIGITAL MATTERED (De Gruyter, 2024)—which once again focuses on American artists. Perhaps this focus is due to the larger market there for artists, books, and exhibitions."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"5c6861ff23c8","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"a1c3054af5de0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Current exhibitions like ELECTRIC OP and DIGITAL WITNESS tend to prioritize image-based work. In the 1990s, new media art consciously distinguished itself from image-based media. What is still missing is a comprehensive history of the time-based, space-based, telematic, process-oriented, reactive, interactive, and self-organizing works that represent early dreams about the possibilities of the World Wide Web and human-machine interaction."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"099d094f4ab2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c6f8bf2b3e8a0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"The challenge is preservation. Interactive works often require restoration due to aging technology, and many will likely end up being documented only on video. But there's a crucial difference between an artwork that \"lives\" and one that merely represents. As exciting as these current exhibitions are, they show only fragments of the full scope of digital art. Ironically, digital art was more integrated into contemporary art forms in the 1990s. The exhibition DEEP STORAGE: COLLECTING, STORING, AND ARCHIVING IN ART (1997–1999) exemplified this by including our work LIQUID VIEWS and two others by Lynn Hershman and George Legrady. The exhibition traveled from the Haus der Kunst in Munich to various prominent venues, ending at PS1 in New York."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"37fc5068709f","_type":"moduleImage","caption":"Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss, Let’s talk about archiving, Zoom Interview, 2023. Copyright Monika Fleischmann & Wolfgang Strauss","imageDesktop":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2dbd0c19d2c54b0263aa2d1b2afa1013a0984e8e-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMobile":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2dbd0c19d2c54b0263aa2d1b2afa1013a0984e8e-570x570-jpg","_type":"reference"}},"imageMode":"natural","imagePosition":"left"},{"_key":"861ea999697f","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"6463246219e2","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"30242fdeee710","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: How would you explain your work to someone who isn’t familiar with the history of digital art? As you know, EXPANDED.ART is located on Friedrichstraße in Berlin, one of the main shopping streets in the city, situated between Checkpoint Charlie and Unter den Linden, two major tourist attractions. Many visitors to the gallery are not familiar with the history of digital art. One thing I have noticed is that it suddenly becomes easier for them to understand the history of digital art if they have some knowledge of AI and text-to-image prompts."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}],"textRight":[{"_key":"3d1757cc3b61","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"b52aed0e70d40","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"ec197a37aaf3","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Current technologies like AI and text-to-image generators provide a perfect entry point for understanding the history of digital art. Just as today's AI interprets instructions (prompts) to create images, our early work focused on creating systems that responded to viewers and pioneered new forms of interactivity. Take ART+COM's TERRAVISION from 1993; it envisioned what would become Google Earth and showed how digital artists were imagining and shaping our technological future. Digital art isn't just about technical innovation; it's about exploring real questions of human communication and interaction in a globally connected world."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"25ca499d48da","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0f07a7f1b1570","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS: "},{"_key":"99dffe023045","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"While people today are familiar with AI-generated images thanks to mass media, there's often a gap between recognizing an output and understanding the process. When I mention that ENERGY PASSAGES was written in C++, I often get blank stares. However, digital art becomes immediately accessible when experienced through interaction—like touching your reflection in the virtual water mirror of Liquid Views, inspired by the Narcissus myth. Or consider Jeffrey Shaw's bike ride through a virtual city—people intuitively understand these works through direct engagement, even without grasping the technical background."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"39d69abf7d7f","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1452294320210","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF: "},{"_key":"37a580f27260","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"This is why works like LIQUID VIEWS and RIGID WAVES became educational touchstones in the 1990s and 2000s, appearing in books and school curricula as gateway examples of digital art. We need more integration of art and computer science education in schools to build a deeper understanding. The goal isn't just to teach people about specific technologies but to help them understand how (digital) art has always been at the forefront of human-technology interaction."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"75e7ce3a8b4c","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e1aa73d939b40","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"We've always said that digital or new media artists in computer and science labs are the best at inventing and opening minds to inspiring ideas. Evaluations of our MARS Exploratory Media Lab at GMD/Fraunhofer have proven this time and time again."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"b2639cc24da5","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"85c879e1f82e0","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"WS:"},{"_key":"14c167aedf89","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" Looking at the evolution of digital media in society, it's remarkable how quickly foundational concepts like Cybersyn (1970–73) were forgotten. Cybersyn, an ambitious plan of the Allende government directed by Stafford Beer and Gui Bonsiepe, envisioned a collaborative digital platform for national economic planning, in sharp contrast to the MIT Architecture Machine Group's MEDIA ROOM, which focused on computer control rooted in military development. MIT's model, adopted by Xerox PARC and Apple, emphasized personal computing and drove the economic growth of the IT industry. However, Cybersyn's inclusive communication model, which facilitated multi-participant discussion and decision-making, remains relevant today for fostering collaborative decision-making in digital spaces."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d3915d4bcafe","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"8a6d6e40900d0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"A renewed focus on 1970s models can inform future digital frameworks, and the recent surge of interest in the history of digital art and media, led by scholars and retrospectives, speaks to this overdue review. While some artists explore questions about machine cognition or hallucination, we pursue a different concept: \"intelligence augmentation\" (IA), where the viewer's engagement with AI reveals the impact of their own choices, creating a dynamic space for thought that bridges human and artificial knowledge."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"914d709aaecd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"0310800ff0860","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"MF:"},{"_key":"a40ec342703d","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":" While Cybersyn pioneered participatory digital spaces, we are advancing this approach for the AI age. Our THINKING SPACE combines Cybersyn's collaborative vision with the power of Intelligence Augmentation. In our THINKING SPACE, people's interactions are mirrored and analyzed through AI feedback, enabling a deeper understanding of personal decision-making processes. At a time when AI systems often appear as black boxes, our approach creates intentional transparency and spaces for reflection."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"e791ed3913f6","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"266293b864790","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Our THINKING SPACE invites interaction between humans and AI, illuminating the hidden consequences of personal choices and actions in a symbiotic, reflective environment."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"ac5e6bb234f8","_type":"moduleQA","textLeft":[{"_key":"5172eac46742","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"2bd0b4ed66d60","_type":"span","marks":["strong"],"text":"AM: Thank you for taking the time to have this conversation!"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"c7c68e585e14","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"b3fa20ea6fd5","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"8be9ae85-b2d3-45c2-b21b-9db0092378e1","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ARTIST"},{"_key":"24d8d68150c0","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"ca74865d616d","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"shopifyCollection-536013373706","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"ART"},{"_key":"88e68b0e06b7","_type":"moduleTeasers","teaserItems":[{"_key":"7c05557815be","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_ref":"e5673930-350e-4784-a63d-c4254b0f1f16","_type":"reference"}}],"title":"EXHIBITION"}],"publishingDate":"2024-11-28T16:30:00.000Z","seoDescription":"Monika Fleischmann and Wolfgang Strauss are Berlin-based digital art pioneers. 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The arrival of Artificial Intelligence means that every lie can now have convincing visual evidence. Now, everything is true, and nothing is true.\" – Phillip Toledano
\nANOTHER AMERICA challenges the notion of truth in photography, blurring the lines between reality and fiction. Set against the backdrop of the 1940s and 1950s—a time when photographic imagery held a unique sense of veracity—the project transports viewers to a parallel universe where historical events take unexpected turns.
\nFrom surreal landscapes to hauntingly realistic scenes, each AI-generated image invites audiences to question their perceptions and reconsider the narratives that shape our understanding of the past.
\nFinally, how else to address the idea of uncertainty than with the technology, Artificial Intelligence, that is making the world uncertain?
IN THE PRESS (SELECTED)
\"The artist politely declined The Washington Post’s request to list some of his prompts, saying that they are part of his 'magic spells.' His reservation is further proof that AI is a creative tool.\" – Washington Post, 17 January 2024
\"I think a lot of people have this reflex to say, you know: 'A machine made this. There’s no humanity, there’s no soul in these pictures.' But I would argue there’s extraordinary soul in the pictures that AI makes. I would also argue that it’s kind of ironic because, guess what all the painters were saying about photography when photography became a thing in the 1850s? There was no humanity in it. There was no soul in it because a machine was taking the pictures. So here we are again, saying exactly the same thing.\" – Phillip Toledano, In: LensCulture
NFT DROP: 9 JULY | 6 PM CET
\nTSKALTUBO RESORT by Sasha Katz is a series of 12 AI-generated images based on the artist’s film photography. They are fragments of her memories and dreams from visiting the Tskaltubo resort with her parents when she was four years old. Presented as a sequence of photographs, it is as though she had a camera capturing those moments that shaped her understanding of love, loneliness, and magic, forever encapsulated in the echoes of the past.
Part of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
NFT DROP: 2 JULY 2024 | 6 PM CET
\"When I draw, I improvise, with no idea what will appear. I allow my hand to move and reveal something new. I feel a similar sense of discovery when I train these AI models and write prompts to explore the possibility space even further. The images are a new breed, part mine and part collective, and that feels supernormal.
\nDrawing is my all-embracing sublime delight, the one thing I can't not do. I have made drawings every day for over 25 years in a 5\" x 6\" format. The drawings are sketches, designs, therapy, entertainment, and a basic need to express something. I make up stories about them. I make larger drawings and sculptures from them. They are the library I am using as training material for my AI sketches.\"
\n– John F Simon, Jr.
\nPart of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
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VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
\"INFINITE DESCENT is the result of my early experiments with custom-trained models and coupling them in feedback loops. A pix2pix model that I had trained on tens of thousands of engraved portraits found in the public domain collection of the British Library is feeding its outputs back into its inputs.
\nMy fascination with feedback loops in neural networks stems from the fact that their emerging patterns tend to result in a distillation of the most prominent features they have learned—in this case, elements that make up faces: eyes, noses, and mouths in line-art fashion.\"
– Mario Klingemann
Part of IMAGINE TODAY, 2024, at MUD Gallery in Shanghai, 20 July - 20 August 2024.
WILLIAM LATHAM: MUTATOR INFINITY
14 MAY – 4 JUNE 2024
MIRROR CUBES by William Latham is a series of 16 images created with the MUTATOR AI system, which the artist developed with programmer Stephen Todd. It is a blast of color and floral exuberance, influenced by Impressionist landscape painting and artists such as Gustav Klimt.
EXPANDED.ART | GALLERY
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
View the collection on OpenSea. (Coming soon)
CROSSLUCID: DWELLERS BETWEEN THE WATERS. SCENES FROM THE FILM
21 SEPTEMBER - 30 SEPTEMBER 2023
DWELLERS BETWEEN THE WATERS (2023) is a multi-channel AI-driven film conjured as a series of hybrid rituals that mediate the space in between physical presence, trauma, memory, healing, and virtuality.
\nEXPANDED.ART SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
Roope Rainisto's series RECOLLECTION MACHINE examines human memory and our relationship with technology: our insatiable hunger to create, capture, and consume memories, no matter whether these memories are real or imagined. The transmitted signals compress the richness of experiences into lossy compressed copies, making them more palatable and consumable.
\nThe cold terminals, the myriad of displays, gather our attention, seemingly plain, neutral, and unadorned. From these devices, moments can be recalled endlessly over until they cease to create emotions in us. The past overcomes the present. We obsess about the past, ignore living in the present, creating memories about watching memories.
","disjunctive":false,"gid":"gid://shopify/Collection/499048710410","id":499048710410,"imageUrl":"https://cdn.shopify.com/s/files/1/0555/7229/9962/collections/RecollectionMachine2.png?v=1685547294","isDeleted":false,"rules":[{"_key":"a946e698-b151-54ac-8aea-5697e2a3f897","_type":"object","column":"TAG","condition":"Roope Rainisto","relation":"EQUALS"}],"slug":{"_type":"slug","current":"roope-rainisto-recollection-machine"},"sortOrder":"BEST_SELLING","title":"ROOPE RAINISTO | RECOLLECTION MACHINE","variants":null}},"videoUrl":null},{"_key":"619f0e969df2","_type":"teaserItem","link":{"_createdAt":"2023-10-17T23:33:29Z","_id":"shopifyCollection-504391139594","_rev":"PXWOOsfzOK8vnxIjfswZqR","_type":"collection","_updatedAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:09Z","store":{"createdAt":"2024-03-30T17:05:07.853Z","descriptionHtml":"ANNE SPALTER: ART FOX. VALUE SYNTHESIS AND AI
7-29 NOVEMBER 2023
Art Fox is a symbolic avatar for exploring the multifaceted creation of value in the modern era, with an emphasis on the integration of artificial intelligence (AI) into the artistic process. This series delves into the intricate tapestry of value synthesis, traversing realms from tangible resource extraction to the ethereal dimensions of creativity, technological innovations, and the digital monetization phenomena observed in social media and non-fungible tokens (NFTs).
EXPANDED.ART
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
NFT DROP: 2 JULY 2024 | 6 PM CET
Collection curated from a StyleGAN3 model trained with hand-selected images of fire and nude paintings by the artist, Bård Ionson.
\"The nude fire. Grasping at identity is like a flicker of fire. The flame goes out when held too tightly. The desire to know brings more uncertainty. In the age of artificial intelligence, we are learning to live with the anxiety of our naked uncertainty. Our nakedness meets the flame. We still seek to know the next event, whether by fire or the casting of bones, or now by algorithms and models trained on all of human knowledge.
The textures evoke the color and form of paintings from a distance and merge the human form with fire. A closer inspection shows the fingerprint of the AI algorithms can be seen in the matrix-like patterns.\"
– Bård Ionson
Part of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMER 2024.
NFT DROP: 2 JULY 2024 | 6 PM CET
\"When I draw, I improvise, with no idea what will appear. I allow my hand to move and reveal something new. I feel a similar sense of discovery when I train these AI models and write prompts to explore the possibility space even further. The images are a new breed, part mine and part collective, and that feels supernormal.
\nDrawing is my all-embracing sublime delight, the one thing I can't not do. I have made drawings every day for over 25 years in a 5\" x 6\" format. The drawings are sketches, designs, therapy, entertainment, and a basic need to express something. I make up stories about them. I make larger drawings and sculptures from them. They are the library I am using as training material for my AI sketches.\"
\n– John F Simon, Jr.
\nPart of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
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\nANOTHER AMERICA challenges the notion of truth in photography, blurring the lines between reality and fiction. Set against the backdrop of the 1940s and 1950s—a time when photographic imagery held a unique sense of veracity—the project transports viewers to a parallel universe where historical events take unexpected turns.
\nFrom surreal landscapes to hauntingly realistic scenes, each AI-generated image invites audiences to question their perceptions and reconsider the narratives that shape our understanding of the past.
\nFinally, how else to address the idea of uncertainty than with the technology, Artificial Intelligence, that is making the world uncertain?
IN THE PRESS (SELECTED)
\"The artist politely declined The Washington Post’s request to list some of his prompts, saying that they are part of his 'magic spells.' His reservation is further proof that AI is a creative tool.\" – Washington Post, 17 January 2024
\"I think a lot of people have this reflex to say, you know: 'A machine made this. There’s no humanity, there’s no soul in these pictures.' But I would argue there’s extraordinary soul in the pictures that AI makes. I would also argue that it’s kind of ironic because, guess what all the painters were saying about photography when photography became a thing in the 1850s? There was no humanity in it. There was no soul in it because a machine was taking the pictures. So here we are again, saying exactly the same thing.\" – Phillip Toledano, In: LensCulture
NFT DROP: 9 JULY | 6 PM CET
\nTSKALTUBO RESORT by Sasha Katz is a series of 12 AI-generated images based on the artist’s film photography. They are fragments of her memories and dreams from visiting the Tskaltubo resort with her parents when she was four years old. Presented as a sequence of photographs, it is as though she had a camera capturing those moments that shaped her understanding of love, loneliness, and magic, forever encapsulated in the echoes of the past.
Part of the group exhibition THE PATH TO THE PRESENT, 1954–2024. On view at EXPANDED.ART in Berlin from 2 July – 7 SEPTEMBER 2024.
View the collection on OpenSea.
OONA: MILK & SCISSORS
12-19 SEPTEMBER 2023
LIQIUD HARMONY by OONA invites viewers on a journey into namelessness, where milk overflows, dissolving boundaries of the female body and illuminating the dynamics of power.
EXPANDED.ART SHOWROOM
Friedrichstraße 67, 10117 Berlin
Monday - Saturday: 11 AM - 6 PM CET
View the collection on OpenSea.
\nVOICES OF WEB3 is an archive of voices and statements summarising the year 2023 in digital art and culture. It is a document in time on the blockchain, bringing together some of the leading voices shaping Web3 and the history of digital art: artists, curators, and collectors.
\nTHE VOICE GEMS
The statements have been recorded in the form of spoken word, poems, and songs by the contributors and are frozen in time as VOICE GEMS on the blockchain. The VOICE GEMS were created by Harry Yeff (Reeps100) and Trung Bao, who have developed a voice-centred generative system utilizing data found in a human voice to synthesise the form and colour of the artwork.
– OONA
ABOUT THE NFT
Contract address: 0xA8E5Ec62bfec3906817cBb56728523e65E2e681d
Blockchain: Ethereum
Token standard: ERC-721
Metadata: Frozen and decentralized
EXPANDED.ART presents the group exhibition A BEATING HEART. FEMALE PIONEERS OF DIGITAL ART on view in Berlin 17 May to 4 June 2023.
\nThe exhibition explores how female artists at the forefront of digital art approach the male-dominated field in a variety of mediums such as AI, AR, video, poetry, and sculpture. 16 artists delve into our relationship with technology, dissolve the boundaries of the female body, deal with young femininity and the burden of its expectations, draw a portrait of the collision of committed love, exhaustion, and desire, and ask us to consider what we truly value.
\nARTISTS: Gretchen Andrew, Ana María Caballero, Carla Gannis, Claudia Hart, Tali Hinkis (LoVid), Sophie Kahn, Martina Menegon, Marjan Moghaddam, Oona, Operator, Chiara Passa, Kelly Richardson, Anne Spalter, Sasha Stiles, Addie Wagenknecht, and Kathrin Wessling.
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Helena Sarin channels a heartfelt tale of cultural heritage, stitching memories of childhood summers in the Soviet 1980s into THE ROAD TO FREEDOM. Her animated quilt, an embodiment of national identity, stands as a testament to resilience."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"d015f92e2476","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"81c498c1bb600","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Patrick Tresset’s seaside depiction in PORNIC, ATLANTIC OCEAN and qubibi's tree take us back to times where the sea and earth could have existed before or after humanity, reflecting a constant and timeless relationship between man and nature. In a profound merge of the past and the digital, Skye Nicolas's SHUNDO ODDISH alludes to Japanese yōkai art while showcasing a Pokémon. This amalgamation draws on Japan's rich history and the current age of AR games. 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Referred to as \"the two critical contemporary voices on digital art’s international stages\" (Clot Magazine) and \"LGBT power couple\" (Flaunt), their expertises collide in large scale conceptual works recognizable for their poetic approach to technology. Rooted in the understanding that immersion is not only a physical state but also an emotional one, their approach employs nuance in scale, producing a feeling instead of a spectacle. Ti’s background as an immersive artist and HCI technologist, and Catherine’s as an established choreographer, performance artist and gender scholar make for a uniquely medium-fluent output–bringing together environments, technology and the body."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c4576d57a9f7","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"68f530412aef0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Operator has been awarded a Lumen Prize (Immersive Environments), ADC Award (Gold Cube), S+T+ARTS Prize (Honorary Mention), and MediaFutures (a European Commission funded programme). They’ve been speakers at Christie’s Art+Tech Summit, Art Basel, MIT Open Doc Lab, BBC Click, Bloomberg ART+TECHNOLOGY, Ars Electronica, Contemporary Istanbul, and CADAF."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"c2386969fa61","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"ad9ec761b61b0","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Ti and Catherine are originally from Los Angeles and are currently based in Europe. \n"}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"803b1e917319","_type":"moduleStatement","text":[{"_key":"25e557b85ba3","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"c33a0ea4ac560","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Get in touch for additional information about available works. 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With a background in architecture and writing, Hart emerged in the 1990s as part of a generation of multimedia artists exploring issues of identity and representation. Drawing on computing, virtual imaging, and 3D animation technologies, Hart weaves together topics from art history, philosophy, and cultural studies to explore themes of feminism, embodiment, and temporality through symbolic poetics that stitch onto real-world politics."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"},{"_key":"1da00feb5512","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"e5a4e6872c640","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"Born and based in New York, Hart (b. 1955) earned her BA in Art History from New York University (1978) and her MS in architecture at the Columbia University Graduate School of Architecture (1984). From 2018 – 2022, Hart taught the graduate seminar at the School of the Art Institute of Chicago (SAIC). 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Hart has undertaken prestigious fellowships and residencies including the Apex Arts Fellowship (2019/21) and the Technology Residency at Pioneer Works in New York (2018), and an Honorary Fellowship at Eyebeam Center for Art + Technology (2013-2014). She is the recipient of awards including the Esports Digital Art Prize, Hong Kong (2021), Moving Image Art Fair Acquisition Prize, NY Moving Image Art Fair (2017), and a Gameon Studios Production Grant (2016). 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Together with Michael Spalter she oversees Spalter Digital, one of the largest private collections of early computer art."}],"markDefs":[],"style":"normal"}]},{"_key":"384a4b4bc243","_type":"module5050","image":{"_type":"image","asset":{"_ref":"image-2d8107ec262a6f9c36e6fadba3a37a88ef48290a-1688x1684-png","_type":"reference"}},"position":"left","text":[{"_key":"a0091c3a36fd","_type":"block","children":[{"_key":"1fa88a85862b","_type":"span","marks":[],"text":"In 2022, Spalter was part of MASS MoCA's alumni residency; named as one of the 50 most important crypto artists by Rizzoli; participated in the SPRING/BREAK Art Show NYC and the CADAF Art Fair; and released RABBIT TAKEOVER, an NFT project that sold out in five minutes. 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It is a document in time on the blockchain, bringing together some of the leading voices shaping Web3 and the history of digital art: artists, curators, and collectors.
\nTHE VOICE GEMS
The statements have been recorded in the form of spoken word, poems, and songs by the contributors and are frozen in time as VOICE GEMS on the blockchain. The VOICE GEMS were created by Harry Yeff (Reeps100) and Trung Bao, who have developed a voice-centred generative system utilizing data found in a human voice to synthesise the form and colour of the artwork.
Every voice is unique, and with that comes unique fingerprint-like data. Features like pitch, resonance, harmonics, and pace sculpt particle data points in a simulated digital space.
View on OpenSea.